Home / General / How the ^<em>Claude Maximillian Overton Transpire Dibbler’s</em> anti-Clinton sausage gets made

How the ^Claude Maximillian Overton Transpire Dibbler’s anti-Clinton sausage gets made

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(From ye olde Discworlde Ymporium. It’s an apron. You know you want one.)

I get a lot of mail from organizations that can’t get competent PR flacks to work for them, which is why I get to see RW news output before it’s news. For example, there’s the Association of Free Market Hacks & Conservative Quacks in Health Care American Physicians & Surgeons.

AAPS didn’t start the Hillary Clinton is Dangerously (for America) Ill!! thing, but it has joined in. And AAPS is a favorite of RW news jerks because the org.’s output comes from people with M.D. after their names, which makes everything look sciencish and official-like.

Also, AAPS sends bullet points and a complete article so there’s no risk anyone who uses this stuff will have to perform any actual work. Or introduce facts into the story.

From: Dr. Jane Orient
To: [Moi]
Subject: Is Hillary Clinton Medically Unfit to Serve? (Physician poses the question)

Answer: She fell down and hit her head once and some other spurious claims. But I’m a doctor, so definitely! Yes!

From: Gerard Gianoli, M.D., F.A.C.S
To: [Toujours moi]
Subject: Physician asks: Is Clinton’s Health Less Important than Trump’s?

Answer: I’m just asking questions but I’m a doctor and all of the questions I ask indicate that her health is more important and she is probably brain damaged.

Sure enough, on the same day Orient’s email plopped into my inbox, WND and Breitbart recycled Orient’s article.

Newsmax picked up Gianoli’s bit the day it came out but Fox, WND and Forbes all soon followed suit.

I’m sure there will be a lot more where that came from. Gianoli’s regular announcements that this time doctors really are all going to leave Medicare no longer get much attention. Orient’s usual shtick is Disease! Bearing! Foreigners! and the line to shout into that particular microphone is really long.

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  • Calming Influence

    Trump should take up CMOT Dibbler’s slogan: “I’ll cut my own throat if I’m lyin'”.

  • so-in-so

    Any idea if either of the named individuals are actual, practicing doctors?

    Politics doesn’t often come up in the examining room, but I’d sure look for a new practitioner if I had either of these cranks.

    • Oh, hell, leave the Gianoli too.

    • They are. Gianoli also works at Tulane’s med school.

      • efgoldman

        Gianoli also works at Tulane’s med school.

        Another reason (Newtnik’s two graduate degrees are the first) that Tulane should lose it’s accreditation.

        • MartinAlexander

          Yet another example of a tenured professor(this is not an attqck on tenure) becoming a crank because he doesn’t need to feel the effects of his actions on society.

        • twbb

          I actually skimmed through Newt’s PhD dissertation; it’s not particularly good, but honestly I’ve seen worse.

    • ema

      The MD who wrote Trump’s health letter is a practicing physician and he still managed to write that all results are positive.

    • Halloween Jack

      I work at a teaching hospital, and have come into contact with thousands of doctors, from residents fresh out of medical school to crusty old sawboneses who remember when the polio vaccine was introduced. The vast majority of them are fully competent, and some I wouldn’t hesitate to call geniuses, but there are also some that I wouldn’t trust with a potted plant, let alone my medical care. (It’s like the old joke goes: what do you call the person at the very bottom of their medical school class? Doctor.)

  • Richard Gadsden

    To be fair, Clinton’s health is more important than Trump’s. But that’s because Clinton will be president and Trump will lose.

    • mpavilion

      +1

    • Calming Influence

      And in the socialist hell she creates, the unlimited free health care will have her surrounded with four times as many physicians as secret service agents.

      In other words, she be the healthiest human ever to serve as president.

  • delazeur

    Isn’t this some kind of malpractice issue? Assuming these are real doctors, of course. With psychiatrists, at least, I believe there are prohibitions against evaluating people who are not your patient, especially for political purposes. That rule resulted from a poll of psychiatrists regarding Goldwater’s fitness for office, as I recall.

    • That sounds like an ethical issue, but maybe the health care attorney will drop by.

      • Calming Influence

        I’m not an attorney, but I’ve read some blogs that have some attorneys, so I feel qualified to answer.

        OK, next question?

        • delazeur

          Shit, I can give out advice for $300/hr just as good as anybody else!

          • jim, some guy in iowa

            does it have to be *good* advice?

            • N__B

              “Don’t take any wooden nickels.”

            • GeorgeBurnsWasRight

              Good advice will cost you extra.

      • As one of the local MDs, I agree. No malpractice concerns. Stupidity concerns, yes.

        • rea

          Aw–what’s the point of having a professional degree if it doesn’t let you talk nonsense on the internet?

  • cpinva

    “Any idea if either of the named individuals are actual, practicing doctors?”

    good question. a better question: are any of these real people, much less doctors who are actually practicing? check with the state licensing board in the state they are purportedly in.

    “Isn’t this some kind of malpractice issue? Assuming these are real doctors, of course. With psychiatrists, at least, I believe there are prohibitions against evaluating people who are not your patient, especially for political purposes. That rule resulted from a poll of psychiatrists regarding Goldwater’s fitness for office, as I recall.”

    good question #2. you also might want to find out how many malpractice suits they’ve been involved in, especially if they aren’t currently practicing. that might well be a clue as to why they aren’t. as a general rule, it’s considered an ethics violation to diagnose anyone you haven’t examined in the flesh, regardless of your specialty.

  • efgoldman

    Is Hillary Clinton Medically Unfit to Serve? (Physician poses the question)

    Is Donald Trump the principal fund source, to seven figures, for NAMBLA?
    Just posing the question.

    • c u n d gulag

      It would be unfair NOT to speculate!

  • NewishLawyer

    Out of all the conspiracy theories for the Trumperistas to go for, the health thing is the oddest. Trump is older than HRC! Not by much but still older!

    I used to work for a left-wing radio station that had some right-wing callers. One guy had a super-strong New York accent, something that sounded straight out of a movie (like Donald Trump). He used to call up and say “Goooooo back to Cuubbba”

    I imagine that is going to be the bulk of the GOP soon.

    • so-in-so

      Of course they go with it! Trump has a letter. From a “real doctor”. Stating he is the healthiest man EVER elected (in over 200 years, I’m sure Doc investigated earlier Presidents very carefully). Trump is SO healthy that all his tests were POSITIVE! Every one! HRC can’t say that.

      • N__B

        The doctor explained today that Trump would be the healthiest because all of the previous presidents are dead or enfeebled.

        So there.

    • Just_Dropping_By

      It’s also odd because even if every one of Clinton’s alleged health problems was true, why would that make anyone think Trump is a better choice for president? Being the president is not like piloting an airplane or repairing a watch — it generally doesn’t require split-second reaction times or fine motor skills.

      • delazeur

        I don’t know, I think a fair argument can be made that the Presidency’s inherent stress and sleep deprivation call for healthy candidates (although I wouldn’t take that so far as to say that the public should be able to thumb through candidates’ medical records).

        Fundamentally, Clinton would still be a better choice than Trump even if she wasn’t physically capable of carrying out all the duties of the office.

        • efgoldman

          Clinton would still be a better choice than Trump even if she wasn’t physically capable of carrying out all the duties of the office.

          She’d be as better choice even if she was already in the ground.

          • ExpatChad

            I would refuse to embalm Trumnp on the basis that it would clearly be futile. I am an embalmer, not a magician.

          • Pseudonym

            Kaine or Zombie Clinton would both be far superior to Trump.

            Regarding health issues, should we not have elected FDR in ’44? Or Reagan in ’84?

            • Probably no and definitely no. Both of those cases involved unacceptable deception of the public.

  • sibusisodan

    How the ^Claude Maximillian Overton Transpire Dibbler’s anti-Clinton sausage gets made

    I want to go into a time capsule with this post title, so that I can see future generations give it the respect it is due (combined with what I hope is weapons-grade uncertainty as to what the words referred to 2000 years ago).

  • furikawari

    Is the ketchup extra in the sense of a sin tax, or is it extra because someone claims to have discovered edible ketchup and wishes to sell said substance?

    • GeorgeBurnsWasRight

      IIRC, in one of the books Capt. Carrot explains that rat with ketchup costs so much more because “have you ever tried eating rat without ketchup?”

  • The AAPS is a thing, and they put out a journal-shaped artifact, the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons. It is legendary in the field of crankery. Think of the John Birch Society dressed up in a white lab-coat and cos-playing with a stethoscope.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Physicians_and_Surgeons

    Many of them are indeed legitimate doctors. Surprisingly many are gynecologists.

    • I seem to remember reading some years back that a disproportionate number of right-wing/crank doctors are ob/gyn. Maybe it’s a power trip, but you’d think anesthesiologists would be even crazier then.

      As far as medical professionals go in general, it seems like dentists are the wackiest (excluding inherently cranky groups like chiros, naturopaths, etc.).

    • rea

      The association is generally recognized as politically conservative or ultra-conservative, and its publication advocates a range of scientifically discredited theories, including the belief that HIV does not cause AIDS, that being gay reduces life expectancy, that there is a link between abortion and breast cancer, and that there are links between autism and vaccinations.

    • sharculese

      My parents both have medical training (he’s a DVM, she’s an RN) but chose to get MPHs and spent their careers doing epidemiology. It was drilled into me from an early age that doctors are not necessarily scientists, and that you should always be skeptical of scientific claims by doctors absent other credentials.

      • Indeed. Medicine is made up of science, near-science, intuition, guesswork, and blind luck — more or less in equal portions. Plus some occasional witchcraft.

        • The AAPS people do not like those proportions and are keen to take the “science” out of it. They have a policy of opposition to “evidence-based medicine”. They are worried that it might detract from the “witchcraft” part of the role, and the clinical intuition, thereby reducing the awe that patients are supposed to feel.

        • A friend of mine, originally a large-animal DVM, who went on to a Ph.D. in microbiology (specializing in viruses) and is now at the CDC, used to say it was always fun to watch MDs try to do science.

          Since his favorite virus is rabies, his idea of “fun” may not be widely shared.

      • Pseudonym

        My parents both have medical training as well, but they’re definitely not scientists the way I am (being an engineer and thusly understanding science automatically).

    • cpinva

      and that’s supposed to be an actual modern day medical journal? is there any discredited medical “theory” it doesn’t advance?

      “Many of them are indeed legitimate doctors. Surprisingly many are gynecologists.”

      so are many republican members of congress, who show how much they care for their patients by attempting to pass any legislation they think will hurt them. especially the gyno’s, who seem to be misogynist by nature.

    • GeorgeBurnsWasRight

      My wife dreads conversations with her gyno (only one she can use, long story) because he’s a RWNJ/openly racist/2nd Amendment nut job.

      Anecdotal, I know.

  • jim, some guy in iowa

    probably everyone else has already seen this about Trump’s medical report?

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-doctor-wrote-health-letter-just-5-minutes-limo-waited-n638526

    truly, a match made in a shallow pool by dim light

    • Alex.S

      “If elected, Mr. Trump, I can state unequivocally, will be the healthiest individual ever elected to the presidency,” Bornstein wrote.

      Asked how he could justify the hyperbole, Bornstein said, “I like that sentence to be quite honest with you and all the rest of them are either sick or dead.”

      I’m amazed he ever talked to the media. He’s been ducking for months.

  • c u n d gulag

    Dear Doctor,
    If a dry-drunk – a recovering alcoholic – is President, and chokes on a pretzel, is is fair to speculate that he was drunk, or so fucking drunk that he mistook the pretzel for the olives in the 4th triple martini Peggy Noonan made for him?

    • John Revolta

      Maybe he was just extra-dry that day.

  • bobbo1

    Did you know that CNN cancelled Dr. Drew THE VERY DAY AFTER he said he was concerned about Clinton’s health? Coincidence? I don’t think so!! (And neither does the very journalismy Washington Post, apparently.)

    • It’s not like they wouldn’t be justified.

    • cpinva

      I was surprised that he came out with that comment, I had always given him credit for being smarter than that. apparently, I gave him wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much credit.

      • The Dark God of Time

        A lot of doctors are idiots outside of their expertise, although Dr. Drew expertise is in drug rehab, which is about as evidence-based as phlogiston or the luminiferous ether.

        • a_paul_in_mtl

          Indeed. Let’s not forget that Dr. Ben Carson is a retired brain surgeon, which, one would imagine, requires a certain expertise, yet he is certainly a crank in many other areas.

    • GeorgeBurnsWasRight

      Reportedly he had done this before and agreed not to do it again, so he probably was canned for the second violation.

      I’m just amazed that CNN still has standards, could have fooled me.

  • People might also enjoy Orac’s take on the Orient / Gianoli attack, although Orac is seldom accused of being terse.
    http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/08/19/hillary-clinton-is-medically-unfit-to-serve-as-president-and-donald-trump-has-narcisis-stop-abusing-medical-science-for-political-gain/

    The AAPS is especially notable for being apologists for infanticide. I am not making this up. Such is their opposition to vaccination programs, they have a number of interesting theories about vaccines causing the intra-cranial bleeding and broken bones and internal injuries that have previously been classified as evidence of beating a baby to death, and they come to the support of baby-batterers.

    • Eli Rabett

      As they say, you have no idea. AAPS is indeed John Birch with a medical degree and up to their butts in any kind of kinky science denial you can think of including, of course, climate change and that’s not the half of it. John Mashey has a tidy figure showing all the players but for what it’s worth AAPS is one of the saner boxes on the chart, Doctors for Disaster Preparedness being even further out. And then there’s JPANDS. . .

    • runsinbackground

      You know, when you said “apologists for infanticide” I thought you were going towards “proponents of using SIDS as a catch-all for infanticides we don’t feel like investigating”.

  • ForkyMcSpoon

    I don’t understand how this line of attack is supposed to work.

    I’ve seen Hillary Clinton speak. I’ve seen her debate. She seems smarter and sharper than most adults.

    I’ve seen Hillary Clinton walk around. She isn’t doing cartwheels, but she’s also 68. She seems to be in good health.

    But I’m supposed to believe she’s barely standing and has brain damage? Shouldn’t they at least claim she has a condition that wouldn’t interfere with her performing all the activities that we’ve seen her on television performing?

    I don’t understand why people are talking about this.

    • Big lie tactics?

      I mean, it’s sorta like the TelePrompTer jokes about Obama. Or even, really, the birther nuttiness.

    • cpinva

      “I don’t understand how this line of attack is supposed to work.”

      forget it Forky, it’s Trump.

    • I assume it’s a dog whistle for Crazy hysterical broads and their hormones.

  • JR in WV

    That is the most amazing thing about this medical question to me. We can see these two people daily, interacting with other people, speaking to crowds, in Hillary’s case in small rooms talking to customers in a restaurant, etc.

    I think I can identify people who can’t think well by watching them interact with others, talking, arguing, presenting their opinions and plans. People who are sick have trouble walking easily, climbing stairs, getting into and out of cars. Like me, I’m 65 with joint replacements, and if I’m in a low-slung car I have a little trouble getting out to my feet. Trump sometimes holds his podium like he’s afraid he might fall, unlike Clinton who seems well poised and moves naturally.

    Hillary talks with people at coffee shops, and seems friendly and social, straightforward and outgoing. I have never seen Donald Trump in that kind of environment. He only appears at big events with the crowd screened, and anyone not prepared to kiss his ass is kicked out. That tells me something about his ability to get along with regular folks, or as he would call us “The Little People”

    While it may be that Trump’s speech is well designed to persuade those inclined to agree with him that he shares their views and is well equipped to carry out stuff they will like, he sounds like a crazed rabid weasel to me.

    Hillary sounds like a lawyer, well-trained in how government is supposed to work to improve the nation. She has common-sense plans that will vastly improve the quality of life for everyone in the country, and improve somewhat the quality of life for people in other countries, our trading partners abroad.

    • cpinva

      “he sounds like a crazed rabid weasel to me.”

      I think you’re being very unfair to crazed, rabid weasels everywhere. a recent poll shows they think Trump is a lunatic, and he scares them.

  • (((Hogan)))

    In Hillary Clinton’s inner circle, it’s common knowledge that there are times she’s so low-energy that she blanks out for hours. When that happens, she is given to strange mental spells during which she has little or no control over what she says and does. She sometimes mutters things no one can understand.

    My colleagues in the mainstream media are covering all this up, but the time has come to speak out. We simply can’t elect a president subject to such mysterious health issues.

    What’s that you say?

    It’s nothing?

    It’s just that she . . . sleeps at night, like the rest of us.

    Oh. Ahem. Well, never mind that, then. There are plenty of other health problems to worry about. For instance, I hear from Donald Trump that Hillary simply doesn’t have his stamina — and that’s troubling indeed, since he often does as many as one campaign event a day, before flying home to spend the night in Trump Tower.

    And no less an expert than Rudy Giuliani, the man once known as “America’s primary-care physician,” has referred us all to the Internets to check up on her health.

  • a_paul_in_mtl

    Here’s an article critiquing this organization and its journal:

    http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/02/18/the-journal-of-american-physicians-and-s/

    An excerpt:

    “The leadership of the AAPS and apparently many who publish in JPANDS seem to be a bit too enamored of their self-proclaimed “maverick” status and give the appearance of thinking that, like Ayn Rand’s hero, they’re “supermen” whose egoism and genius will inevitably prevail over timid traditionalism and social conformism. Reining them in with evidence only interferes with their autonomy and prevents them from exercising their genius for the good of their patients. If only the “herd” could appreciate that! No wonder JPANDS has published several articles with titles such as Evidence-based Guidelines: Not Recommended, The Effect of Peer Review on Progress: Looking Back on 50 Years in Science (featuring another scornful dismissal of the “herd instinct” and “conformity” and a fair amount of exaggeration of how much scientific progress is due to “violent confrontation” of old paradigms and how much is due to the slow accumulation of knowledge), and editorials attacking evidence-based medicine. To the AAPS, evidence-based guidelines are unacceptable limits on the autonomy of physicians, as are any government regulations or third party payer systems.”

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