Home / General / “Mhysa”: an <em>LG&M Game of Thrones</em> podcast with Steve Attewell and a Vacationing Jew

“Mhysa”: an LG&M Game of Thrones podcast with Steve Attewell and a Vacationing Jew

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Due to some foreseen circumstances — my quarter just ended — it took a little longer than usual to produce this podcast. But produced it has been! Enjoy!

You can listen to the above podcast here.

Our very civilized discussion of the premiere (S03E01).

Fancy-talking about “Dark Wings, Dark Words” (S03E02).

Here we are blathering on about “Walk of Punishment” (S03E03).

Don’t watch — because you can’t — us discuss “And Now His Watch Has Ended” (S03E04).

The rudely interrupted first half of our discussion of “Kissed by Fire” (S03E05).

The second half of our discussion of religion in “Kissed by Fire” (S03E05).

In which we discuss “The Climb” sans spoilers (S03E06).

“The Climb” with spoilers (S03E06).

“Second Sons.” We has them (S03E08).

Belatedly, “The Bear and the Maiden Fair” (S03E07).

You’re all invited to an epic performance of “The Rains of Castamere” (S03E09).

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  • Immanuel Kant

    I’d need to rewatch the episode, but I don’t think it’s at all clear in the show that Roose was responsible for Ramsay’s sack of Winterfell, or that he knew about it ahead of time.

    • Would someone as meticulous as Roose have no reaction to as catastrophic an event as the burning of the North’s capitol?

      • Immanuel Kant

        To whom would he show this reaction? My memory of his words to Frey was that he was indicating that Ramsay more or less went rogue.

        • If Roose was loyal and his bastard had screwed up that much, he wouldn’t be in charge at the Dreadfort and/or healthy and alive, and/or keep Theon’s capture a secret.

          If on the other hand, Roose wanted to eliminate the Starks, what better way to ensure their downfall than to destroy their Capitol and symbol of their power?

  • Another Anonymous

    Did I see SEK saying that he was leaving academia?

    • SEK

      You did. It’s not a secret, though. I mentioned it here, for example. I’ll have a big news thing about at some point, preferably when I land another job.

      • Another Anonymous

        Ah, thanks. Best of luck. Louisiana? You’ll be amongst the bigots right next door to mine!

  • Josh

    Do these podcasts just cover the episode or do they also go into detail paricularly future books / stuff not yet covered ?

    • SEK

      90 percent about the series, with spoiler alerts and polite pauses before we discuss later events in the novels. (Which Steven did a fair amount of in this episode.)

  • Domino

    Without listening to the podcast yet, I felt the episode was underwhelming, and really felt Danery’s story line was ridiculous to end the episode and season.

    Also, and I know this is nitpicking, but how is she feeding her sudden army of 9,000? Having just finished a couple books re: WWII, supplies are just as important to the success of an army as the actual troops are.

    • SEK

      The logistics is one of the least offensive statements about feeding the new “troops” that’s made in the final minutes of the episode.

      • Domino

        I don’t know how to interpret your comment, so I’ll just ask do you discuss this issue in the podcast?

  • David Hunt

    I have to agree with you guys that they really messed up that last scene. That last shot had none of the visual power that the closing visuals of the last two seasons had. I was expecting a vastly different shot to end the season on. One that would have have turned the viewers’ hearts to stone, if you know what I mean. (and I expect you do).

    • Immanuel Kant

      I think it would have been super lame to do that scene only one episode after the Red Wedding. Totally unearned. The actual last scene was also weak, though.

      • David Hunt

        You make a good point about the timing. Practical matters of keeping the actor under contract could play into it. I expect that we’ll see the scene that refer to early in Season Four simply because they want to keep the actor employed. Once they’re no longer working on your show, you can’t be sure that you’re going to get them back. I wondered if that was why we’re “treated” to everything that Theon goes through.

        With the particular character I’m thinking of, they might be able to use a different actor, but I expect they wouldn’t want to.

      • I disagree; it would have been an amazing head-fake when people’s expectations are undercut the next season.

    • I see what you did there.

  • Uncle Ebeneezer

    I understand what you mean about things being back to right/normal when Jamie returns, but on the other hand (sorry), the situation Jamie has just returned from was much more dire than a business-as-usual affair. Cersei thought he was going to be killed for awhile, and then he shows up missing a major limb. I expected more emotion, even from her. Even the toughest wives of soldiers usually breakdown when their spouse returns from a particularly dangerous front. Had there been an audience, her attempt to remain stoic would’ve made sense, but in private it seemed pretty unrealistic.

    • Captain Splendid

      Cersei is, among other things, a raging narcissist. Jamie’s loss of hand will make her question if she’s able to love someone who’s maimed looooong before any empathy kicks in.

      She also believes enjoying a station high up on the pile is hard work, not for the timid, and comes with a high price, so don’t come crying to her if you got a boo-boo.

      • Uncle Ebeneezer

        Yes but it’s always seemed that her feelings for Jamie were the one area where she is sincere. The one area where her humanity leaks out.

  • Anonymous

    On the Small Council scene and Cersei, I think its not just the fact that she’s realized she’s “lost” Joffrey that makes her not rush to defend him, but the gravitational force that Tywin represents as well. To oversimplify the situation (slightly), Cersei seems more afraid that Tywin will drop the hammer on Joffrey more than anything else, so under the circumstance presented to her Joffrey being sent to bed is the least horrible outcome out of a range of outcomes that are all horrible.

    The reaction shots to Joffrey insulting Tywin say as much, not just in who each person at the table look at but how they look at them. Both Pycelle and Tyrion turn to Tywin (for different reasons), while both Cersei and Varys keep their eyes locked on Joffrey (also for different reasons). Cersei gives Joffrey a look that says “you’ve just done something incredibly stupid that is making my job harder” – her primary job being to keep Joffrey safe, and Tywin is the one person against whom she cannot keep him safe.

    As for the rest of the episode:

    1) There is no way that this won’t be the enduring image of Ramsay. It’s just too comically horrible.

    2) With regards to Shae and the scene with Varys, this isn’t so much wrapping up something from this season but fostering a new or changed arc for the next. Same with the scene between Cersei and Jaime. Same with Arya and the coin. Same with Stannis/Melisandre/Davos.

    3) The ending was indeed terrible in all the ways you described it. It’s not just that they went full white savior, they went that way without any of its counteracting and undercutting themes, which will become very present in the next and subsequent seasons. So its not just a bad scene in and of itself, its also a bad setup. Horrible.

    And I don’t think it needs to be said again that agree wholeheartedly with Steven on the proper substitute scene.

  • Sly

    On the Small Council scene and Cersei, I think its not just the fact that she’s realized she’s “lost” Joffrey that makes her not rush to defend him, but the gravitational force that Tywin represents as well. To oversimplify the situation (slightly), Cersei seems more afraid that Tywin will drop the hammer on Joffrey more than anything else, so under the circumstance presented to her Joffrey being sent to bed is the least horrible outcome out of a range of outcomes that are all horrible.

    The reaction shots to Joffrey insulting Tywin say as much, not just in who each person at the table look at but how they look at them. Both Pycelle and Tyrion turn to Tywin (for different reasons), while both Cersei and Varys keep their eyes locked on Joffrey (also for different reasons). Cersei gives Joffrey a look that says “you’ve just done something incredibly stupid that is making my job harder” – her primary job being to keep Joffrey safe, and Tywin is the one person against whom she cannot keep him safe.

    As for the rest of the episode:

    1) There is no way that this won’t be the enduring image of Ramsay. It’s just too comically horrible.

    2) With regards to Shae and the scene with Varys, this isn’t so much wrapping up something from this season but fostering a new or changed arc for the next. Same with the scene between Cersei and Jaime. Same with Arya and the coin. Same with Stannis/Melisandre/Davos.

    3) The ending was indeed terrible in all the ways you described it. It’s not just that they went full white savior, they went that way without any of its counteracting and undercutting themes, which will become very present in the next and subsequent seasons. So its not just a bad scene in and of itself, its also a bad setup. Horrible.

    And I don’t think it needs to be said again that agree wholeheartedly with Steven on the proper substitute scene.

    • Agreed; my own interpretation is that Cersei realized Joffrey crossed a line with Tywin that she can’t help him with.

      1. For now, certainly.
      2. Yeah, but some had more heft than others; Arya and S/D/M much more than Shae/Varys or Cersei/Tyrion.
      3. Agreed wholeheartedly.

      • Sly

        The problem with the Shae/Varys scene is its foreshadowing something; Tyrion marrying Sansa has strained his relationship with Shae, but that strain was lessened somewhat when Shae discovered that he wasn’t consummating the marriage. Now that tension is back because Shae thinks Tyrion wants her gone (and, to make matters worse, that she thinks he doesn’t have the nerve to tell her this himself). Plus the “book people” have an easier time understanding the scene because we know how it plays out.

        The Tyrion/Cersei scene exists to provide insight into the fucked-up nature of Cersei as a parent; her children exist to keep her from descending into absolute madness. And it’s not “even Joffrey,” as she suggests, but “especially Joffrey.” A sentiment that has extensive repercussions in the next season.

        Nothing about the season finale’s of this series is really supposed to end anything, but take an existing conflict and either heighten it or transform it. That’s why the “Mhysa” scene doesn’t work at all, but all the other scenes of the episode do.

        And, honestly, the last scene it left me wondering whether or not they’ll even do Meereen at all in the 4th season; it might even work better if they didn’t, because I honestly can’t take another four or five episodes of Mighty Whitey Dany, especially when her entire experience in the Slaver’s Bay is supposed to subvert that trope.

        • Shae – the problem is we already knew all of this. Ditto with Cersei/Tyrion.

          Season finales on this show have tended to set up new plotlines:

          Season 1
          – Robb becomes King in the North!
          – Tyrion becomes Hand of the King!
          – Arya escapes with the Night’s Watch!
          – Sansa becomes Joffrey’s prisoner!
          – Jon Snow marches beyond the Wall!
          – DRAGONS!

          Season 2
          – Margaery gets engaged to Joffrey! Sansa gets dumped!
          – Tywin becomes Hand, Tyrion is screwed!
          – Stannis is given a vision of his future!
          – Robb marries Talisa!
          – Brienne kills three Stark men and escapes with Jaime!
          – Arya is given the Braavosi coin! Jaqen changes his face!
          – Dany gets her dragons back, entombs XXD and Doreah, and sacks his palace!
          – ZOMBIES!

          I don’t think Season 3 quite hits the same mark.

          • Sly

            Shae – the problem is we already knew all of this. Ditto with Cersei/Tyrion.

            We knew there was potential for conflict in the relationship between Shae and Tyrion, but that potential just became real. If the scenes involving Shae ended with her discovering that Tyrion wasn’t having sex with Sansa, then it would have created false expectations for Season 4.

            And, to be honest, “we” know this about Cersei, in large part, because “we” know what happens. Without later events to provide context, Cersei’s relationship with Joffrey can be misunderstood a multitude of ways; in this scene she makes it explicit. She’s not scared of losing Joffrey because Joffrey is her son – an individual she has innate and natural love for due to the parent/child bond – she’s scared of losing Joffrey because Joffrey is her security blanket. And that’s her tragic flaw.

            People familiar with narcissism either by education or experience probably understood Cersei long before this scene, but that likely isn’t the norm.

            As for the rest of the episode, if you go through it scene by scene, it follows the pattern of previous season finales. Some major event or events happen in Episode 8 and 9, the characters are left to deal with them in Episode 10 and how they immediately deal with them provides a foreshadowing of whats going to happen in the next season.

            This season finale was likely difficult because it doesn’t follow the structure of the books – that’s a big reason why the Mhysa scene doesn’t work – but they managed to mostly follow the pattern by moving certain things around (Arya’s first kill, Yara setting out for Westeros, Ramsay’s reveal, etc).

  • Hogan

    Wait, Jews get vacations now? What happened to the country I grew up in?

    • SEK

      I wouldn’t — I mean, I did, but I wouldn’t really call it a vacation.

  • First off, I have to tell you guys how much I enjoy and appreciate these podcasts. Very entertaining and enlightening.

    That said, I have a couple of quibbles. I’m not going to defend the last scene, which had me shaking my head, but, SEK, you have been over-reacting to the white savior notion since, IIRC, your very first GoT post a couple of years ago, re: Dani vis-a-vis the Dothraki. I don’t think this is an objective reading. And we saw how well that worked out for her.

    “White savior” is exactly the wrong lens through which to view Dani. Try outcast, misfit or outsider on for size. That’s the common characteristic of everyone in the story that we care about – in a positive way.

    Plus, someone one being crowd-carried is also being set up for a fall. This sets up Dani’s new story arc, which is not going to be particularly pleasant. As a savior, she is already established as a total flop. And seeing the wretched state of the newly freed slaves doesn’t dehumanize them, it reminds the viewer that slavery is really wretched.

    You missed something in the Arya scene when she admits to the Hound that she just killed her first man. She doesn’t admit to him that way back in season one, she killed a boy.

    Other thoughts:

    A couple of episodes ago you said Walder Frey was Craster with money. This week’s comparison is that Ramsey is Joffry without constraints. Tywin made it very clear that Joffrey can’t do whatever in the hell wants. He’s also semi-voluntarily constrained to some degree just because he’s king, and has to more or less act the part, so his psychopathy is limited in its expression. Ramsey’s is not.

    It just now occurred to me that the PW is karma visited on Joffrey for his violation of Sansa’s guest rights.

    Another point(!) about the Ygritte-John scene is that that she could easily have killed him and didn’t. The wounds make his return to the night-watch as escapee rather than turn coat credible.

    The really big teleportation event was the gift box going to Balon with a very short time ultimatum for the Iron men to vacate the north.

    An interesting contrast was Jaime returning home missing a part compared with Theon’s part returning home without him.

    Which brings up again my half-assed idea that everything or person of importance in the story is a reflection or reversal of something or someone else of importance. Night’s Watch – King’s Guard, frex.

    Looking forward to reliving season one with you guys.

    Cheers!
    JzB

    • David Hunt

      Although Joffrey has been an absolute monster wrt Sansa, I don’t think that he can be said to have violated the guest right. She was part of Ned’s retinue, and from Joffrey’s point of view, Ned was a member of his government that tried to launch a coup against him. Effectively, Ned was part of Joffrey’s household, so he wasn’t a guest, but rather a traitor who was justly punished by his lord. Sansa, being one of Ned’s subordinates, had no more guest rights than he did. What he put her through was horrible, but it didn’t break that taboo. If it did, more people would have been trying to stop him.

      It shows an unexpected blindspot that Tywin didn’t see how unthinkable the treachery at the Red Wedding was and that there would almost certainly be dire consequences. He seems far too blasé about the whole thing to me. The violation of guest rights is a worse crime that incest, or even kin-slaying in Westeros. I can only guess that he plans to frame Robb Stark for starting everything.

      • And neither of them underwent the ritual when it was Joffrey’s roof, which is important.

        This isn’t a spirit-vs-letter of the law thing. You have to eat bread and salt for the ritual to be invoked, full-stop. Also, guests are temporary residents not fiancees or prisoners.

        As for Tywin, this is a man who made his name by the total destruction of two houses, men, women, and children. And then made a song about it. And who isn’t religious in the slightest.

        • I’m not so sure about the full stop. Bread + salt formalizes the ritual. But isn’t it pretty clear that the night’s watch were guests at Craster’s? There was no ritual there – just an understanding that Mormont and Craster had, even if nobody else did – or cared.

          And Sansa has definitely been in residence under Joffrey’s kingship, and has shared meals with Cierce. Presumably, bread and salt were available, even if not specifically ritualized.

          I’ll admit we’re in a grey area, but you can’t just dismiss the notion quite so blithely.

          • They had eaten his bread and salt tho, even if the bread had sawdust in it.

            The books are more specific about how the guest right works.

        • Sly

          As for Tywin, this is a man who made his name by the total destruction of two houses, men, women, and children. And then made a song about it. And who isn’t religious in the slightest.

          And whose eldest son is an order that forbids marriage and inheritance, but who still remains the heir apparent to Tywin’s lands and title. And Tywin still manages to use forced conscription into that order as a threat to break up the potential engagement between Loras and Sansa.

          • Yeah. Tywin doesn’t really care about custom and law.

      • I can see why you think that, but still disagree. Clearly, Cierce is treating Sansa as a guest, and I believe that is quite proper, since she has been in residence at King’s landing since even before Ned’s demise, and then ever since. Plus, she was Joffrey’s betrothed – until she wasn’t – living with and under the protection of the Lannisters.

        I think guest’s right applies, Ned’s alleged crimes not withstanding.

        Cheers!
        JZB

        • My comment is directed to David. Steven’s argument is much more compelling.

    • I agree that undercutting Dany-as-white-savior is where they’re going with this character, but in terms of this scene, they really failed to set up any of that fall. As for the slaves, it’s not so much that they were wretched, but that their wretchedness is entirely focused on Dany, as opposed to in the books, where they’re equally happy about Dany but also grabbing reparations and getting the hell out of dodge without Dany giving them a rousing speech about what freedom should mean to them.

      • Right, mostly. But I think undercutting Dani as white savior is superfluous, because that is not and has never been what she is. That strikes me as being an imposed reading. She’s more like a Tolkien elf. Beautiful, but everything she touches turns to shit.

        • I think it’s definitely there in the books, especially in her attempts to end rape as a spoil of war among the Dothraki, and then when she SPOILER.

          • She reacts to rape and slavery with personal revulsion. This, in no small measure, results from her own experiences being abused for years by her brother, who then sold into marriage to serve his own ambition. The fact that she’s the whitest person remaining on the planet is of far less relevance than her total ineffectiveness as either a savior or a ruler.

            But – if you detect a trope in ASOIAF, it’s there to be subverted, one way or another.

            • It is there to be subverted by the outcome, that she fails completely because she doesn’t understand that a “khal who cannot ride is no khal.”

              Which in the show, happened one episode later.

              In this case, it’s going to be a year before subversion happens.

    • Sly

      “White savior” is exactly the wrong lens through which to view Dani. Try outcast, misfit or outsider on for size. That’s the common characteristic of everyone in the story that we care about – in a positive way.

      Dany is an outsider, but the “white savior” trope is about an outsider becoming better at “being native” than the natives themselves, merely because of their inherent superiority.

      The point of Dany’s arc is to subvert that trope. Yes, she ingratiate’s herself among the Dothraki, but that ends in disaster (a disaster she causes, by the way). It ends similarly in Qarth; her arrival destroys the social order of the entire city. The Slaver’s Bay takes that theme and has her explore its advantages and come to grips with its disadvantages, but the disadvantages have not come yet and people who haven’t read the books have no inkling of what they are. Meanwhile, the path of every other character is a lot less vague so long as you pay close enough attention to what’s going on.

      • I’m not sure if you’re agreeing or disagreeing with me.

        • Sly

          I agree, but probably not in the way you think I do.

          Dany’s a subverted white savior; the problem with that scene is that it contains none of the subverted elements, which is made glaring by the fact that its the last scene of the season.

          Dany’s failure in becoming a white savior is that while she always aims to possess the natives (be they Dothraki or Qartheen or Unsullied or Ghiscari), she invariably becomes the one who is possessed. The natives are always obligated and responsible toward the white savior; rarely, if ever, the reverse.

          This reversal wasn’t present in that scene. On its own, that would be fine. But the purpose of a characters last scene in the season finale is to establish, either overtly or subtly, the dominant narrative of the next season. In Season 1, Dany’s Khalisar has largely abandoned her but now she has baby dragons, which put her in a vulnerable position throughout Season 2. In Season 2, she learns the art of deception from Daxos, which she exploits to great effect in Season 3. In Season 3… what? She’s fully embraced by the people she’s liberated? That’s going to be the dominant theme in Season 4?

          A big part of this is due to where Season 3 ends with respect to where these events take place in A Storm of Swords; the writers wanted to end the season with the Red Wedding and its immediate aftermath, which is the major event in Westeros, but the conquest/liberation of Yunkai, which happens around the same time, isn’t the major event in Dany’s narrative arc. That comes slightly later, at Meereen.

    • Andrew

      So is your argument that the show/book make Daenaerys out to be a white savior only to subvert the trope by having her fail? This would dovetail with Steven’s earlier argument about how Sansa subverts damsel in distress conventions.

      That being said: Essos didn’t have to be a continent solely populated with brown people. Nor did the slaves all have to be brown people. It’s also telling that Daario was cast as white. So Danaerys became the queen of non-white barbarians, a brown slave army, a fifth column of brown freed slaves, and an all-white council of advisers.

  • Pingback: Video Podcast of Game of Thrones, Season 3, Episode 10, “Mhysa” | Race for the Iron Throne()

  • Joseph Nobles

    I think the sour taste left in the mouth for Dany’s storyline was intentional. Season One ended with Fire: Dany stepping out of the ashes with her dragons. Season Two ended with Ice: The White Walkers advancing on the Fist. So Season Three ended with Fire again: Dany at a high point in her power.

    It’s good to know the “accidental” cast of Moroccan extras happened, but two other people crowd-surfed this season: Roslyn Frey Tully and Jon Snow. We all know the result of Roslyn’s crowdsurf, so I’d say that shared shot foreshadowed tragedy in store for both Jon and Dany. Dany is believing her own press awfully hard. That can never end well. And it’s safe to say that Jon’s place in the Night’s Watch will bounce up and down a few times. People become invested with power at their peril in the world of Westeros.

  • I’m amazed that Attewell wanted the thing that he thought he’d see at the end of the season.

    That thing doesn’t come until later in the books, and the explanation even further along. It’s an awesome closing sequence for next season, after some time has elapsed between the precipitating event, the impact of which would be immediately diluted were this thing to come right afterwards.

    • SEK

      First of all, we never see the thing I wanted in the books, and it happened 3 days after the Red Wedding, which puts it chronologically at the right time, as opposed to coming a year later in show terms.

      I don’t think people are going to care next season.

    • That thing happens three days after the Red Wedding, and we never see it in the books, but only the aftermath several months later. So chronologically, the scene I wanted to see was right on schedule.

      It’s going to be very weird if it happens a year later in relative show terms, and I think less people are going to care about that thing.

      Also, there’s tons of crazy things to end next season on that would have a significant impact.

      • Joseph Nobles

        If I’m right, the fourth season will end with a very strong visual statement of Ice. So I agree that what you’re talking about won’t be the closing image of season 4. What that would be, I’m not sure. Perhaps a dliffhanger with Bran?

    • Sly

      Barristan’s reveal didn’t happen in the books until after the conquest of Yunkai (it happens in the scene immediately following the “Mhysa” one, if memory serves); for reasons of both narrative economy and translating the story into the TV medium, things can, do, and often must change.

      On balance, I think revealing Barristan early created some problems down the road (at least more than were avoided), but that wouldn’t be the case with revealing the scene in discussion earlier. It would have paired nicely with the Rat Cook story, it plays with the episode’s title, resolved the fate of a character who was shown more extensively than in the books (and who basically disappears without mention), and foreshadows future events in a way that season finales generally do. Plus it’d be fucking awesome for both readers and non-readers alike to see.

      As it stands, I hope its the last scene of the 4th season premiere. Otherwise the aftermath will likely be mentioned in passing by other characters as a sort of mystery, only to be revealed later in the last scene of the Season 4 finale (which I agree with Steven will have a lessened impact on the audience). What makes sense to me for the the last scene of Season 4 is the one involving a raven saying someone’s name twice.

  • Andrew

    Joffrey vs. Ramsay:
    I agree with Steven on this. It’s not just a matter of being close or at a remove from the victims they torture. It’s also the contrast of personal responsibility, cowardice, and courage. Ramsay himself took Theon on the escape. Even assuming Joffrey eventually developed a more sophisticated sensibility to dream up that scenario, he still probably would’ve ordered someone else to do it. Ramsay and Joffrey may be equally psychopathic, but Ramsay’s sensibilities about responsibility are much closer to Ned’s.

  • rw970

    Regarding Joffrey vs. Ramsay:

    I was not so happy with the portrayal of showJoffrey, which is that Joffrey’s some sort of evil psychopath who is rotten to the core, and there’s a straight line from him to the guy who cuts up people and puts them in his freezer. I.e., Ramsay.

    BookJoffrey does a much better job of demonstrating that Joffrey is, at heart, an immature, spoiled kid (I think he’s only around 12-13 in the books). His father was mostly absent, and to the extent he took an interest in Joffrey, it was to smack him, or tell him to shut up. His mother is a scheming narcissist who raises him to be the sneering douchebag Aryan-in-charge she could never be, that she imagines Tywin is. Don’t get me wrong, there’s some grade A material there for a psychopath – abusing Tommen, cutting kittens out of pregnant cats, etc. but I thought the book took pains to remind you that Joffrey related to people and things like a four year old who had never been told no.

    Things actually go better for people who interact with Joffrey as if he’s a child. Arya treats him like a childhood bully and when she gets accused of siccing her wolf on him, calls him a liar and gets into a shouting match with him which any parent would recognize. Tyrion treats him like a spoiled brat, and runs circles around him in Kings Landing. Tywin treats him like a four year old, and sends him off to bed. Cersei really only loses control when she can no longer relate to him as a disobedient child, in part because she herself has constantly reinforced the idea to him that as soon as Robert dies, nobody will be able to tell Joffrey what to do.

    Whereas Ramsay is just cartoonishly evil.

    • Uh….

      – when Arya treats him like a childhood bully, he responds with a spirited attempt to murder her.

      – Joffrey shoots starving peasants with a crossbow and tells them to eat the dead if they’re so hungry.

      – when people come to him with a legal dispute, he orders them to fight to the death…virtually every time.

      – Joffrey has antlers nailed to rebels’ heads and sends them back to Stannis via trebuchet.

      And all that’s on top of abusing Sansa, cutting Micah’s cheek, and possibly abusing his younger brother.

      He’s a psychopath. A 14-year old psychopath, but a psychopath all the same. The major difference between Joffrey in the books and the show is that showJoffrey is 17 rather than 14, and thus has a fullblown murder=sex thing going on.

    • Medicine Man

      Ramsey Snow reminds me of the most evil hobbit ever.

  • Lars

    Nice podcast (as usual) – But I have to say that I’m mystified about your TELEPORTATION claims.

    Any TV viewer should be aware that X amount of time may pass between scenes. A single episode of GOT may cover several months (Season 1 episode 1), or just a few hours (“Blackwater”). This is not “24” we are watching – or a live broadcast. This is all accomplished through the “magic” of editing. (I’m really surprised you did not point this out, SEK)

    This is not news, nor should it be. If Sam sends a raven in SCENE A, and it arrives in scene B – one cane naturally assume that days/weeks/months have passed in between. Right? Do we really need several scenes of a raven in flight, to indicate this? Or for Davos to say “As you know, it takes 4 weeks for a raven to reach us from Castle Black, so this must have been sent 4 weeks ago”? Do we?

    The only place where a legitimate “teleportation” claim can be made is if there is a scenario like this:
    Scene A1 -> Scene B1 -> Scene B2 – Scene A2
    …Where the A scenes are one plot-line, and the B scenes another plot-line, and the time we know passes between A1 and A2 is only a short time, which makes it impossible that B2 followed B1 if a lot of time is supposed to have passed between them.

    (Most of the same complaints in Season 2 regarding “teleporting Littlefinger” are equally bogus, and people just don’t pay attention to the time that can elapse between episodes and scenes.

    Sure, it is a bit off that Sam & Gilly got to CB before Jon, but it could be rationalized by Sam going in a straight line where Jon is barely conscious and his horse wanders.

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