Home / General / “We’re here to help people, and if we’re not helping people, we should go the fuck home.”

“We’re here to help people, and if we’re not helping people, we should go the fuck home.”

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Kirsten Gillibrand is pretty clearly running for president in 2020 and I like just about everything about her, including the quote above. If Warren runs, she would have my vote in a heartbeat. But outside of that, I am more interested in Gillibrand than anyone else right now, including another run from Bernie. She has really good political instincts and is just a flat out great politician. Of course, going to the big stage is another huge test, but her chances seem good, she’s going to be a great counter to the inevitable Cuomo run, and she got why Trump needs to be opposed at all costs earlier than nearly everyone else.

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  • DamnYankees

    Why Warren over Gillibrand?

    And yes, I’m totally on the Gillibrand train. I had hoped a few years ago that either she or Klobuchar would succeed Obama. Hopefully the dream isn’t dead.

    • LeeEsq

      Warren arguably has more of a national brand than Gillibrand.

      • DamnYankees

        Maybe, but that seems like a reason to bet she would win, not nexessarily why he’d vote for her.

        • Redwood Rhiadra

          Warren is an ACTUAL progressive.

          Gillibrand is a progressive when it’s politically convenient. (And was a Blue Dog conservative Democrat when *that* was politically convenient.)

          So FSM only knowns what the hell Gillibrand would be as POTUS.

          • Q.E.Dumbass

            Is this irony, or no?

            • Q.E.Dumbass

              Like, if this is meant as a joke, then it’s a very good joke! But AFAICT jokes (or even that much humor) doesn’t really seem to be your style.

          • Hogan

            You mean she represented the people who voted for her? We can’t be having with that kind of thing.

            • Q.E.Dumbass

              Given that Rhiadra is absolutely not a purity wanker — and is in fact generally a bit of a wet blanket in the other direction — this is probably intended as a contemptuous yet accurate summation of the pink anarchist bunny view (although applying it to Erik is completely unfair). The joke here is that Gillibrand’s blue dog period predates Warren’s conversion to left-liberalism by seven-or-so years, and that Warren’s reluctance to run is necessary for this to not bring up cognitive dissonance in such-and-such a pink anarchist bunny’s mind.

      • Gregor Sansa

        For 2020? That can change, and Warren is kinda old.

        • LeeEsq

          I’m in firm agreement that the Democratic Party needs to start being less reliant on people born in the early Baby Boom to run for office.

          • John Revolta

            Yes please

          • efgoldman

            the Democratic Party needs to start being less reliant on people born in the early Baby Boom to run for office.

            As, technically, a pre boomer (1945) I agree with this 110%

            • Domino

              As a millennial, I expect to read articles about how me and everyone in my generation are worse than everyone else.

          • mojrim

            Second.

        • JMP

          Yeah, the fact is that Warren will be 71 in 2020, older than Donald is now, while Gillibrand will be 54, which is enough for me to support the latter over the former. Plus Warren really doesn’t seem to be interested in running for President, so her run is purely hypothetical.

          • rm

            I have never had the impression from Warren that she wanted to be the executive. She has always seemed very focused on her economic message. Which is great — I want to see her do lots of good for many years as a Senator. May she be the lion of the Senate until she’s 120. I can imagine her as a very bad campaigner when foreign policy or something else that’s not her passion is at issue.

            • mojrim

              Exactly. Besides, 30 years in the senate beats 8 in the white house, hands down.

            • twbb

              Everyone wants to be President.

          • twbb

            Warren was significantly underperforming “generic Democrat” against Trump recently. Don’t let her anywhere near the campaign trail other than to endorse someone like Gillibrand.

      • Nobdy

        I think Warren inarguably has more of a national brand than Gillibrand. Gillibrand has 4 years to raise her profile but I doubt non-political junkies outside New York have even heard of her.

        But Gillibrand is significantly younger and seems to have more of an appetite for campaigning than Warren.

        • Steve LaBonne

          I sort of follow NY politics since I’m a native, and I think that Gillibrand is much more of a natural and skilled politician than Warren. I’m enthusiastic about the idea of her running and I don’t see a lot of likely candidates whom I would prefer. I’ll take her every day and twice on Sunday over Booket for sure. Let alone Mario’s idiot child.

          • gmack

            This is my sense too. It’s worth noting that having a “national brand” four years before starting one’s run for president is hardly an unalloyed good. Warren, for instance, would be more immediately polarizing than Gillibrand, and so I think Gillibrand’s initial press coverage would likely be more positive. I don’t think this should determine which candidate to support; it’s just that I don’t think any Democratic voter/supporter should care one whit at this point about who has a bigger national profile.

          • Chetsky

            Let alone Mario’s idiot demon child.

            FTFY.

        • royko

          Maybe Gillibrand for President, Warren for AG?

          • Gregor Sansa

            …your newsletter…

          • Duvall

            No more sitting senators or governors in the Cabinet please.

            • mojrim

              Second.

            • Domino

              Give Jason Kander whatever he wants.

      • vic rattlehead

        Aren’t you a fellow New Yorker? I’ve been watching Gillibrand for years – her political chops are leagues beyond Warren’s. And I like Warren! But GIllibrand is better for a presidential run.

        • AlexRobinson

          Please dear God, not Cuomo

          • Q.E.Dumbass

            True…but a Cuomo/Booker/Harris primary would be the definitive purity-bro* test, as would a Clinton/Cuomo gubernatorial primary.

            *”wanker” is more accurate but “bro” expresses the attitude better
            **and if anyone says it’s sexist/misgendering I WILL CUT A MOTHERFUCKER

            • vic rattlehead

              Has “Hillibrand” been coined yet? Because if not I’m claiming it.

              • Rob in CT

                I hope you don’t expect royalties from Your Leftist Betters…

            • ForkyMcSpoon

              Is the idea that Harris is preferable to Booker is preferable to Cuomo?

              I kind of want Clinton to run against Cuomo just to expose the misogynists. And also because she’d be a better governor.

              • Q.E.Dumbass

                In terms of left-liberalism, yes. A purity-lefty’s preferring Booker may or may not be valid, but defending Cuomo, ostensibly from the left, over either candidate would be immediately discrediting.

            • rhino

              A woman can be a ‘bro’, just like a man can be a ‘bitch’.

              Both terms have developed meanings fully separate from considerations of gender.

              • one of the blue

                Can’t speak to “bro,” but the term “bitch” means one thing when applied to a woman, and something entirely different when applied to a man.

                • MyNameIsZweig

                  Yes, exactly. Just because it can be applied across gender doesn’t mean it’s not a totally gendered insult.

                • Origami Isopod

                  And both meanings are misogynist.

          • NoMoreAltCenter

            I kind of want it to be Cuomo just to watch people like Lemieux and Loomis carry water for him.

            • To refer back to a thread from the other day, this is the kind of comment that will get you banned.

              • NoMoreAltCenter

                If the truth gets me banned, then ::shrugs shoulders::

                • Your choice.

                • John Revolta

                  May I just echo that shrug?

              • efgoldman

                this is the kind of comment that will get you banned.

                Trolls gotta’ troll. That’s what they do.

              • rhino

                If it had come from someone who wasn’t such a troll, that would actually have been kind of darkly funny.

            • vic rattlehead

              If 2020 is Cuomo vs Trump (and I will gargle a bucket of Ted Cruz’s diarrhea if Cuomo manages to actually beat a heavy hitter like Gillibrand or Booker) I will absolutely crawl through broken glass to vote for that slimy disgrace to his father’s name. You better believe it. And I will keep my strong negative feelings to myself to not taint him like so many did with Hillary. But inside I will seethe and I will grumble nonstop to my wife.

              • StellaB

                +1

                • Q.E.Dumbass

                  I will actually eat the Bronx Zoo empty if that happens.

                • scott_theotherone

                  +2

              • eclare

                Yup.

              • ForkyMcSpoon

                vic and Andy sittin’ in a tree,
                K-I-S-S-I-N-G
                [etc.]

              • No Longer Middle Aged Man

                Exactly. Cuomo is about as bad as a Democrat can get. Not merely careerist but utterly calculating in his political actions. But he won’t appoint a neo-Confederate AG, a climate change denier Environmental Secretary, an opponent of public schools as Education Secretary etc etc etc. He’ll be bad, which is better than malevolent.

                • UserGoogol

                  Democrats can be worse. I mean, he’s better than Joe Manchin. Cuomo is significantly worse than a Democrat from New York has to be and he’s done a lot of things to piss liberals off, but there’s a lot of garbage in the margins of the party.

                  Still, Manchin would have no chance in a primary. Cuomo is probably around the worst a politician with plausible presidential aspirations can be.

                • Q.E.Dumbass

                  Manchin is “worse” on a great many issues, but those are defensible in the context he’s working in. (Lest we forget, voting against Manchin could’ve easily gotten him outni-(clang!)ed). Cuomo is more in the Lieberman mold, in that his exceptional awfulness for a Democrat is largely independent of external pressures.

              • brewmn

                That’s the way it should be handled, vic.

            • mojrim

              Have you bothered to read, idk anything Loomis has written?

              • Redwood Rhiadra

                In NMAC’s eyes, Clinton is just as bad as Cuomo – neither is sufficiently Marxist (and I’m not red-baiting here – NMAC admitted to being a committed Marxist a couple months ago). So naturally he believes that Loomis would be just as happy to vote for Cuomo.

  • Davis X. Machina

    Here’s hoping that Cuomo turns into the Democratic version of Phil Gramm in 1994.

    • Warren Terra

      That’s certainly the precedent I see – no-one seems to like him or believe he has the charisma or the narrative, and his only supporters are deep-pocketed donors beholden to him.

      Another example might be Scott Walker in 2016, except that a lot of people proclaimed his popularity with the base.

      • DamnYankees

        Yeah, I feel like he’s more like Rick Scott, who no one seems to like.

        • Ramon A. Clef

          Governor Batboy.

      • EliHawk

        Eh. I don’t see it, but I’m hesitant to write him off. He won his ‘beloved grassroots Liberal challenge’ and beat her by like 60 points in Brooklyn, Queens, and the Bronx. That’s where the actual Democratic base is. And the nomination still runs through voters like that. After 2016, I’m sympathetic to being cautious about underestimating voters who see things in politicians I don’t.

        • Davis X. Machina

          They loved Gramm in Texas, too.

          In Iowa and NH, not so much

          • EliHawk

            Iowa and New Hampshire are dominated by white liberal activists that don’t represent the modern party all that well. Hell, of recent nominees, the only one who did well in New Hampshire was the guy who represented the state next door. (Gore barely won; it was the only state he came in under 50%). I’m not saying he’s going to win or anything, I’m just saying that the average Presidential Primary voting Democrat isn’t the white guy on Daily Kos fulminating about the NY State Senate or the Teachout backers in the Hudson Valley.

            • efgoldman

              the average Presidential Primary voting Democrat isn’t the white guy on Daily Kos fulminating about the NY State Senate or the Teachout backers in the Hudson Valley.

              True, but Gillebrand will have a much easier time connecting to the wider base than Saint Wilmer did or will, she has abase equal to Cuomo’s in a large, diverse state, and at least so far, she hasn’t pissed off any of the necessary constituencies.

              • Abbey Bartlet

                I’ve been thinking about recent successful Democratic pols and I wonder if we’re going to increasingly find that being a senator or governor from a diverse state is a big asset in running for national office. Our candidates have to connect to a diverse group of people, and being from a very homogenous (white) state may make that difficult. The really fatal thing to Bernard (93% white) was his inability to connect with minorities, which did not happen to Clinton (56% white) or Obama (62% white).

                I wasn’t paying enough attention in ’04 to know–did lack of minority support hurt Dean (93% white)? Or Edwards (

                • Abbey Bartlet

                  Goddammit, edit button. Or Edwards (64% white, though with far more disenfranchisement of the rest)?

                • mongolia

                  look at the last 3 dem nominees:

                  Kerry – MA-Sen
                  Obama – IL-Sen
                  Clinton – NY-Sen

                  these are blue states with huge urban populations, and are relatively to extremely diverse. this is likely the reason they were able to both get solid donor funding and solid grassroots support, as they had to deal with a large, diverse constituency that didn’t push them towards being blue dogs, but instead forced them to forge the sorts of intra-coalition compromises between the various dem interest groups that is needed to get the coalition to all grudgingly work for the dem candidate.

                  which is why i have been saying (offline) since december to anyone who doesn’t physically shut me up that our next candidate will be a younger blue-state senator from a not-tiny with strong state party support – figure harris or gillibrand are top of the list, though merkley, klobuchar, murphy types wouldn’t surprise me either as being popular early contenders

                • Abbey Bartlet

                  these are blue states with huge urban populations, and are relatively to extremely diverse. this is likely the reason they were able to both get solid donor funding and solid grassroots support, as they had to deal with a large, diverse constituency that didn’t push them towards being blue dogs, but instead forced them to forge the sorts of intra-coalition compromises between the various dem interest groups that is needed to get the coalition to all grudgingly work for the dem candidate.

                  They also aren’t *insanely* liberal. There are some hella conservative parts of those states, and senator/governor requires winning and working with those, too.

                • mongolia

                  They also aren’t *insanely* liberal.

                  yup – can’t be a purity pony when you lead a large, diverse coalition with urban, suburban, rural, white, black, latino, non-native speakers, etc. which is what our vermont politicians have had trouble with in their respective primary challenges 12 years apart, and why i think the states that the senators come from have to both be moderate-to-large population wise and be reasonably-to-very diverse – which rules out senators from VT, NH, NM, HI, DE, RI, and makes life tough for those from mid-size states like CT and OR

              • Origami Isopod

                We don’t have any “insanely liberal” states. Cities, maybe, though the ones that come to mind tend to fall short on class awareness. Counties, same. States, not at all.

        • twbb

          A lot of that might just be residual love of his father.

      • zoomar

        Molly Ivins on Gramm: “Even his friends don’t like him.” Could say the same for Cuomo.

    • NoMoreAltCenter

      If we are being realistic, Cuomo will be the nominee in 2020. It is time to start getting the defense ready.

      • Whatever you say champ.

        • Scott Lemieux

          The idea that Cuomo will be the nominee in 2020 is laughable. He’s drawing dead.

          • rhino

            People said the same thing about Trump.

            • BubbaDave

              But the Democratic party isn’t a collection of fascists, theocrats, and idiots.

            • econoclast

              Now that Trump won, every prediction is as good as any other. Anything can happen!

              • MyNameIsZweig

                Because YOU NEVER KNOW! You can’t know, can you???

              • djw

                It really is a fantastic argument of last resort. You can use it for anything.

                “Guys, I think the Padres might not make the World Series this year.”

                “Whatever. No one thought Trump could win either.”

      • D.N. Nation

        1) Haha, nah. and
        2) Like the Kool Krew on Twitter’s constant slammin’ on the Sins of Chelsea Clinton, you desperately want Cuomo to be a thing because it feeds your impotent rage. Which is adorable if we consider that things on the Internet don’t mean much, but a shame when you think about the future of the left in this country if you’re as representative as you feign to be.

        • Domino

          Also gives Chapo Trap House hours of material. Can’t discount that.

          • Abbey Bartlet

            @ByYourLogic, whichever the fuck one that is, was going on about Chelsea *today*.

        • djw

          you desperately want Cuomo to be a thing because it feeds your impotent rage.

          I’m beginning to think it’s not entirely coincidental that the only people who seem to be bullish on Cuomo are people who have deep identitarian commitment to “Dems are neoliberal sellouts” narrative.

          • Q.E.Dumbass

            Funny — I was thinking they’d be the ones to defend him, from the “left,” against Booker, Gillibrand and Harris in the 2020 primary.

    • daves09

      Cuomo and Brownback-separated at birth. Two nasty looking dudes.

  • pdxtyler

    My preference would be Sherrod Brown. But if he doesn’t run, Gillibrand would be great.

    • Judas Peckerwood

      Have worked for Brown, and he’s the real deal.

    • Linnaeus

      I like Brown a lot, but I think I’d rather have him stay in the Senate.

      • Steve LaBonne

        As an Ohioan that goes double for me.

      • twbb

        I think after Trump we can’t think like that anymore. If Brown has the best chance of winning, run Brown, even if we lose the seat.

    • NonyNony

      Brown has to survive the 2018 Senate election first. His seat is probably a bit safer with Trump in power than if Clinton had won, but it’s still going to be a fight. (My guess is that Kasich will mount a challenge. And he’ll likely be a tough challenger, especially if he still gets the benefit of being against Trump at the midterm from median voters. Voters in Ohio really like fake independents.)

      • Steve LaBonne

        I hope Kasich still has delusions of running for President. I’m confident that Sherrod can handily dispatch that weasel Mandel a second time, but Kasich scares me. He’s quite popular, FSM knows why.

        • Burning_River

          The good news is that there isn’t much rumbling on the Kasich front at this stage, though he’s got the better part of a year to change his mind.

          Agreed though, that beating Mandel like a tin drum should be in the offing, and only appropriate for that little peckerwood.

          • efgoldman

            The good news is that there isn’t much rumbling on the Kasich front at this stage, though he’s got the better part of a year to change his mind.

            It depends on whether Orangemandyas is still in office. Racist mouth breather, knuckle dragging flying monkeys are very thick on the ground in the Ohio primary voters. Kasich is a known quantity, and unaccountably popular, but against the emotional tug, who knows?

        • NonyNony

          I think his presidential ambitions are exactly why he will run for Senate. Former governor, sitting Senator would be a nice place to make a presidential run from. He’s term limited in 2018 too.

          I also think the state GOP will want him to run to have coattails for whoever they put up for governor. Good only knows who that will be at this point. I just wish the Dems had some talent to run for governor in 2018. There isn’t a deep bench in this state.

          • Steve LaBonne

            There barely is a Democratic Party in this state.

          • Warren Terra

            Recent ex-governor is pretty good positioning for 2020, without either the time commitments of the Senate or having to cast unpopular votes there. For 2024, six years out of office is probably too long, though getting into the Senate in 2018 and running for President in 2024 would mean giving up the Senate seat and running on a full term’s unpopular votes, some of whose effects will have become apparent.

            Of course, the question is 2020 or 2024, for a GOPer wanting to be President. I’m not sure what I’d predict.

            • NonyNony

              I’d assume he’d have himself ready for anything in 2020 – Trump is unpredictable in so many ways. He could decide not to run, he could have a heart attack, he could get a wave of Democrats elected to the House and Senate in 2018 and end up impeached, even worse (from a GOP perspective) he could get a wave of Democrats elected to the House and Senate in 2018 and end up signing whatever they put in front of him.

              Kasich is 64 right now – so he’ll be 72 in 2024. That would be pretty old to get elected president. Reagan was 70, but of course Kasich is no Ronnie Raygun (though Kasich has an ego so I wouldn’t be surprised if he tries one more time). A Senate seat would be a nice consolation prize in his mind, I think, as would knocking Brown out of the seat.

    • randy khan

      I agree that he’s the real deal, but I don’t think he’s running. (I have a tiny connection to his family, and they don’t give off any vibe of thinking he’d take that leap.)

  • Nobdy

    I like Gillibrand but I’m really not looking forward to another Donald Trump run against a woman. I’m not talking about from a strategic perspective, I just don’t want to see the Donald vomit up misogyny for another six months and watch it not matter. It was nauseating, exhausting, and demoralizing last time.

    I guess it doesn’t really matter, but ugh. Just ugh.

    • Gregor Sansa

      Don’t worry. Trump will not be the Republican nominee in 2020. I doubt he’ll be president for even 3 years. He doesn’t have the stamina.

      • Gregor Sansa

        Of course, Pence’s unctuous misogyny would also be stomach-churning… or that of basically any other possible 2020 candidate.

        • Nobdy

          “I’m sorry, but I can’t debate senator Gillibrand unless Mother moderates. Debating is sensual and intimate and often leads to sex, and I only have sex with Mother!”

          • wjts

            One of my earliest political memories is of George H.W. Bush and Michael Dukakis doing it right there on stage in the middle of the second debate.

            • Nobdy

              “Oh God, Dukakis is riding the vice president like he’s a tank. This is awkward. Now H.W. has seized Dukakis’ ears and is trying to pilot the diminutive governor. This is highly irregular, highly irregular.”

              “Photograph me like one of your sexy fighter jets, George.”

              “Since you’re such a liberal you must be enjoying this free serving of government sausage, little man.”

              • NBarnes

                You’re going straight to Hell when you die.

                • Nobdy

                  I feel like that ship sailed long ago.

                • rhino

                  Don’t you read the papers? Nobody needs to die to go to hell anymore, we’re soaking in it.

                • GeoX

                  Why this is hell, nor are we out of it!

              • NonyNony

                “Government sausage?”

                I admit, I LOLed.

              • Origami Isopod

                On reflection I’m surprised that it’s taken so long for political RPS (real-person slash) to appear on LGM.

              • Pete

                Outstanding.

        • gmack

          No doubt Pence’s unctuousness would be stomach-churning; personally, I’d still find it less infuriating than Trump. Trump disgusts me on a more personal (even visceral) level than any politician in my lifetime.

          • ForkyMcSpoon

            Somehow, Trump disgusts me far less than the other Republicans, and the public/media reaction to him. So many of them know what he is and don’t care, and that disgusts me even more.

            Trump is still awful though, of course.

            • gmack

              That’s interesting. For me, his media/public reaction is just part of the overall shit sandwich. For instance, I always dislike watching presidential debates, but this season I found them excruciating. Watching him for that length of time caused me something close to physical pain, and the notion that so many people watched this and concluded, “yeah, I support this guy for president”–well, I often find the whole thing intolerable.

            • vic rattlehead

              Me too kind of. Kind of. Trump’s blatant and egregious bigotry is the most honest thing about him (and I don’t mean that in the mouthbreathing Trump supporter sense). He’s a career grifter and dishonest prick but his disgusting and unapologetic misogyny is like the only…guileless? thing about him. He’ll smile while he rips you off and deny basic facts and gaslight the shit out of you but he’ll make no effort to hide what a fucking pig he is.

              Pence’s brand of misogyny is slathered in sanctimony which drives me BONKERS.

        • ForkyMcSpoon

          Unless he gets lucky enough to end up popular after taking over, I wonder if Pence would even be likely to be the nominee.

          Certainly, he’ll probably be in a stronger position than anyone else.

          It would amuse me to watch him go down in the primaries though.

          • vic rattlehead

            If Trump is unpopular enough we may have something like 1980. Who would be the Kennedy to Trump’s Carter though?

            • jim, some guy in iowa

              that is something I don’t see happening. If trump wants the nomination and isn’t actually in jail they won’t deny him

              • vic rattlehead

                If his approval rating gets much worse I’m not so sure.

                • jim, some guy in iowa

                  you know, Cruz might be enough of a snake to give a primary challenge a whirl. And if trump is really underwater maybe Kasich

                  but I really just don’t see any of them having the guts to risk alienating trump’s base. Maybe my memory of the R primary is too strong yet

                • ForkyMcSpoon

                  Cruz would need to stop being Trump’s craven toady in that case. And early enough to erase the stench of his pathetic capitulation during the election.

                  I almost wonder if someone (a Democrat, or even Trump himself) could make hay running ads mocking Cruz for saying he wasn’t in the business of endorsing men who insult his wife and his father… and then caving and doing it anyway.

                • Just_Dropping_By

                  Based on Cruz’s conduct at the RNC, I was originally thinking Cruz was setting himself up to primary Trump in 2020, but his subsequent conduct makes that seem much less likely. I would rate Sasse and Kasich as the more likely primary challengers at this point based on their behavior.

          • John Revolta

            If I recall correctly his Governorin’ approval number in IN last year was below 20%

      • NoMoreAltCenter

        Trump absolutely will be the Republican nominee in 2020 and if I had to objectively place a bet, he probably will win.

        • Do you do sports predictions too? I could use some extra cash.

        • GeoX

          Yeah, you’re nothing if not “objective.”

          • Dr. Acula

            Exactly.

          • veleda_k

            Well, he’s certainly objectionable. That’s kind of close.

        • ajay

          Trump absolutely will be the Republican nominee in 2020 and if I had to objectively place a bet, he probably will win.

          Agreed. If there’s one thing the last year should have taught us it’s that saying “this could never happen because TRUMP” is a silly argument, whereas “this has generally happened in the past, so it’ll probably happen again” is a good one. The economy’s good but not great and the president’s been in office for two terms? Probably the challenger’s going to win. “But TRUMP!” Even so. And indeed so it was.

          So, Trump might die in office. He’s in his 70s. But the chances aren’t high.
          And how many presidents have failed to complete a term in office for reasons other than death? One – Nixon. So if Trump’s still alive, he’ll be president in 2020.
          How many times in the past has a sitting president decided not to run for re-election when he could have done? Not many, and very few recently. Washington, obviously. A lot in the 19th century: Tyler, Polk, Pierce, Buchanan, Johnson, Hayes, Arthur. Only Truman and Johnson since then.
          How many times has a sitting president run for re-election? 27. I counted.
          And how many times has he been re-elected? 18.

          So, yes, Trump is almost certainly going to run for re-election in 2020 and he’s probably going to win. Not definitely; probably.

          • Rob in CT

            I absolutely think he’ll be the nominee. All this he’ll quit stuff is silly, IMO.

            As to whether he’ll win, it’ll depend on events. I mean, shit, surely if the guy is still rocking 50%+ disapprove/40% or less approve numbers he’s going down.

      • efgoldman

        Trump will not be the Republican nominee in 2020. I doubt he’ll be president for even 3 years. He doesn’t have the stamina.

        Even if his favorable/unfavorable doesn’t get any worse, he’s going to have huge negatives to overcome. Anybody that’s been part of the shitshow, especially the VP, is going to be tainted, badly, by association. Dense has lots of vulnerabilities, and the charisma of milkweed. It’s not like he was a reality show star, unless you count the maladministration as a reality show.

      • Matt McIrvin

        People said he’d be gone by Super Tuesday; they said he wouldn’t make it to the convention; they said he was done for every time he melted down in public; they said he’d lose interest and quit before November. I think Trump has more stamina than anyone gives him credit for.

    • bender

      Profanity, to be effective, needs to be employed selectively and not habitually. A woman who can use profanity as appropriately as Gillibrand did in the headline will have no trouble handling whichever misogynists oppose her.

      Most politicians are so afraid of telling the truth or being quoted out of context that they lose the ability to speak plainly when it’s called for. Truman famously could. Bill Clinton regularly deflated Republican talking points with one short, funny sentence that showed them up as liars or fools and put the audience on his side.

      I like Warren but her range of issues is limited and so is the way she talks about them. She seems to want to stay in the Senate if she can’t have a Cabinet position, and I think she is wise.

      • Nobdy

        I am not saying that Gillibrand can’t handle it or that I don’t want her to run. She can. I do. I just don’t want to watch Donald do his horrible act. It makes me queasy.

        And I think Hillary handled Donald well, especially during the debates, and it didn’t matter. The misogyny still worked even when a smart woman had clever quips and substantive responses.

        • jim, some guy in iowa

          I dunno, if things keep going the way they have so far for the donnie, “going through the motions” could be a bridge too far for him

        • rm

          She flattened him in debates, although his misogynist followers thought he won by being a pig, which they liked. But when you say it didn’t matter, remember that the result of the election was a fluke. It was flipping a coin and getting it to stand on its edge. It was the outcome only 5% likely to happen, happening. We got very, very unlucky.

          • Matt McIrvin

            2000 was a fluke. I’m not sure 2016 was a fluke; the split between the popular and the electoral vote was too stark, and points to some larger trend operating.

            Popular-electoral splits in which the Democratic majority vote is more and more overwhelmingly concentrated in California, and the Republican wins on the strength of Midwestern electoral votes with a starkly racist pitch, may be our foreseeable future until the manifest illegitimacy of it causes the US to collapse.

            • scott_theotherone

              Maybe. But I feel like having someone like Gillibrand say to those oh so powerful (the only voters that matter!) white working class voters, “four years ago, Donald Trump promised he’d make everything better for you. So…has he?” would be very powerful.

        • randy khan

          There were obviously, ah, other factors in the result, but Clinton’s performances in the debates all benefitted her in the polls, so I’d say it did matter. (As I’ve noted in other threads, basically Clinton’s numbers improved every time she got to speak to a national audience without media filters – the convention and the three debates.)

        • brewmn

          Trump is going to have to run on a record of throwing tens of millions off of their health insurance in favor of tax cuts for wealthy people, poisoning our air and water so Dow Chemical can make a few more bucks, and repeated misadventures abroad. That’s a best-case scenario. I wouldn’t be surprised if he throws the economy into recession and has provoked a rash of domestic terror attacks he looks powerless to prevent.

          Plus, he won’t be ratings catnip for the media any more. Four years of his monosyllabic bullshit will have worn mighty thin for all but his most diehard supporters. A smart, tough-talking woman not weighed down by thirty years of media baggage will obliterate him.

          • Matt McIrvin

            Domestic terror attacks will help him. I’ve been bracing for Trump’s Reichstag fire/9-11 ever since Election Day. The reaction will be a push to round up every Muslim in America into detention camps, and Trump can argue that evil judges are tying his hands and keeping America from Getting Tough.

      • vic rattlehead

        When Bill Clinton still had his fastball he was really something.

        • ForkyMcSpoon

          The 2012 convention was the first time I actually watched one of his speeches (being too young in the 90s) and then I understood the hype.

        • Pete

          Clinton’s appearance and speech at the 2000 Convention was pretty remarkable.

      • Princetonlawyer

        I’m a 54-year old woman, with a 22-year old daughter who just won a national debating championship (I won’t say for which nation, b/c that would out her.) I tend to swear like a (Princetonian) sailor, my mother (Bryn Mawr ’55) swore like the Asperger’s hyperlexic high-anxiety person she was (gear shifts were a particular target of a good, solid, workmanlike, “Shit” or even “Fuck” to find and engage the gear she was looking for), but OMFG, as the kids say, my daughter swears a blue, blue streak. But, Jesus, reading that article, my kid sounds just like Kirsten Gillibrand! If I hadn’t been exposed to my daughter and her friends, I’d think Gillibrand was nuts. As is, it’s SO refreshing, it’s another sign that she is in tune with her public, and, from personal experience, I bet she shuts a bunch of older men the fuck up with that mouth. I know I do, despite not enjoying it when I hear it from my own kid. All I can say is, way to go you goddamn fucking Heaven-sent miracle, Gillibrand 2020!!!!!

    • ASV

      If he’s running, there will be misogyny vomited up. There’s a good chance he spends all of fall 2019 actively campaigning and talking nonstop about Hillary.

      • kped

        There’s a good chance he spends the next election talking about his historic landslide victory.

    • kped

      On the one hand, i kind of get what you are saying…

      ..on the other, it almost sounds like “lets not run a woman when they run a sexist pig”…which means we may not run a woman for a looooong damn time.

      • Nobdy

        I explicitly didn’t say that and in fact said that I hope she runs.

        I don’t understand how “I am not looking forward to Donald Trump being specifically horrible in the way he is most horrible” can be interpreted as “I don’t want Gillibrand to run for president” unless you’re entering a “least charitable possible interpretation” contest.

    • vic rattlehead

      But imagine him losing the popular vote to a WOMAN twice! Oh boy that’ll eat him up inside! And this time boot his ass out of office.

    • kvs

      I think I understand what you mean. But it reads pretty patronizing as written.

      • Nobdy

        How can my own prediction of my own emotional reaction to future events possibly be patronizing? Patronizing to whom?

        • kvs

          Your emotional reaction is pretty patronizing.

          • Nobdy

            You have failed to identify a party being patronized or how MY personal reaction can patronize another person.

            • Taylor

              Grow up.

            • petesh

              Deleted because space case

    • mojrim

      This would differ from any GOP candidate in what way?

    • Chetsky

      [After reading this thread] I sympathize with your reaction, but would note that the answer isn’t for us to cringe; rather, it is for -every- Dem organ to be in sync in ripping him a new one. Mark Cuban needs to personally fund legal representation and personal protection for women who come forward. Other well-heeled Dems need to indemnify any whistleblowers with the dirt on this scumbag. And the message needs to be clear: he’s a rapist. Not a misogynist. A rapist. Let him try to sue the entire Democratic establishment. Nuclear war on the fucker.

      Of course, the same needs to be done on the fraud front. But I think the Dems should strike first and strike hard on the politics of personal destruction — after all, these fnckers have it coming. If N. Leroy Three-times-Married comes along, he needs to be ground up too. Every. One. Of. Them.

      Make Yertle come begging with a peace treaty.

      • pseudalicious

        I like this idea a lot. How do we do it?

      • twbb

        “it is for -every- Dem organ to be in sync”

        Couldn’t you pick a more plausible plan, like something involving wizards or wish-granting fish?

  • eclare

    Gillibrand would certainly be a test of sincerity for all those “I’m not opposed to a woman president, but there’s just something about Hilary that I don’t like” folks. Will her cursing be a deal breaker? Or will she just seem vaguely unpleasant and untrustworthy?

    • Thom

      It will turn out to be just women who have been senators from NY. Or just women who have been senators. Or…

      • Davis X. Machina

        ~Bernie. You needn’t look any further.

        • bender

          If Sanders runs again, he’ll look like Harold Stassen. If Biden runs, he’ll look like Zombie Hubert Humphrey.

          • wjts

            If Sanders runs again, he’ll look like Harold Stassen.

            I reckon Pat Paulsen.

          • efgoldman

            If Sanders runs again, he’ll look like Harold Stassen.

            Even to people who have no idea who he was.

      • NoMoreAltCenter

        Oh, shut the fuck up. I was a died in the wool Bernie Bro and I would take Gillibrand or Kemala Harris over every single male nominee mentioned for the nom so far.

        • The proof is in the pudding. I don’t expect to see you around here in 2020 when it matters, though.

          • Scott Lemieux

            I’m also sure NMAC has lumped Gillibrand in with Cuomo on Team Neoliberal on multiple occasions. I’m sure that’s the route he’ll go if Gillibrand gets the nomination.

        • daves09

          You are a DYED in the wool berniebro bro.

        • Matt McIrvin

          The gender issue aside, I could see a Gillibrand vs. Warren primary turning into a Hillbots vs. Berniebros Redux battle royale, with the differences between the two exaggerated to infinity as a struggle for the soul of the party (just like the dumb Perez. vs. Ellison thing).

      • vic rattlehead

        No blonde Senator from New York has won* a presidential election.

        *wink

    • Gregor Sansa

      I think that this will actually be a point in her favor. Just as a nontrivial number of racists voted for Obama to prove they weren’t racist.

      I’d be happy with Gillibrand. Especially if, as actually seems plausible, she can avoid being typecast on the DLC/brogressive axis. I’d rather she gets some flak from both sides than that she ends up being a totem (however spuriously) for everything one side hates about the other.

      • NoMoreAltCenter

        “Just as a nontrivial number of racists voted for Obama to prove they weren’t racist.”

        Citation needed

    • Rusty SpikeFist

      LOL who the fuck are you identitarian neolibs to judge anyone else’s sincerity?

      i’d happily support Gillibrand for the nom, but I can tell already that after spending a year selling your “single-payer is RACIST!!!!1!!” spiel, you’ll never let go of it. Booker or Cuomo or Evan Bayh will run on the woke-centrist platform, with a tsunami of money from banks and financial firms behind them, then John Lewis will suddenly remember how Cuomo marched with him on the Edmund Pettus bridge but forgot to mention it until now, and you people will fall in line and the nomination will be over, with a little help in creative vote counting from Tom Perez.

      you people don’t realize how predictable and transparent you are.

      • Pull your head out of your ass and shove your rusty spike fist in.

      • Evan Bayh

        lol

        with a little help in creative vote counting from Tom Perez

        LOL

        you people don’t realize how predictable and transparent you are

        You’re looking in a mirror, Crunch Rockgroin.

      • Tom Perez: History’s Greatest Monster!

        • Little Chak

          Also: John Lewis. Was cool once, now he just supports the oppressors. All he really cares about is lining his rich friends’ pockets and blocking social and economic justice.

      • eclare

        Identitarian – I like that. I’m gonna steal it for myself.

        • Rob in CT

          “Woke Centrist Platform” was worth a chuckle (at the idiocy of it).

      • Origami Isopod

        Wow. This is like vintage FireDogLake.

      • Dr. Acula

        I can tell already that after spending a year selling your “single-payer is RACIST!!!!1!!” spiel, you’ll never let go of it

        What the fuck are you on about?

        • eclare

          I was going to ask the same question, but honestly, I really don’t want to know the answer.

      • ForkyMcSpoon

        Gee, this almost sounds like something a troll working for the other side would write.

        • Dr. Acula

          I don’t remember ever seeing a comment from that guy that wasn’t like that.

      • Scott Lemieux

        Booker or Cuomo or Evan Bayh

        One of these politicians is really not like the others.

      • Rob in CT

        I really hope for your sake you were drunk when you wrote this.

      • D.N. Nation

        then John Lewis hurr durr

        Bashing John Lewis reflects very well on your type, keep it up!

        • Origami Isopod

          You can tell from his handle that he's much, much more of a tough guy than John Lewis will ever be. Why, he'd'a bent those clubs with his bare hands and shoved them up the state troopers' asses!

      • Julia Grey

        This is a Poe, right?

        • Hogan

          Maye. He’s like that all the time.

    • kped

      I believe she was a blue dog way back when. And someone will find something from 10 years ago (14 years ago next election) to call her a neoliberal, and Greenwald and Taibbi will say Democrats haven’t learnt their lesson, and blah blah fuckity blah.

      • wjts

        She was. If she runs in 2020, I expect the True Leftist Clinton Critique to be amended to, “Any political position that Gillibrand has ever taken that I disagree with is her real position. Any political position that I can imagine Gillibrand taking that I disagree with is her secret real position. Any political position that Gillibrand has taken that I agree with is insincere pandering.”

        • kped

          Yes, that will happen for sure. The far left, former Berners will want to be gifted the nomination with whomever they choose to run (if they can get someone to run). A lot of them weren’t cool with this whole “democracy” thing, where people in various states get to pick who they want, and instead wanted super delegates to choose their guy ’cause he was rad. So I expect much whining in 3 years if they don’t get their way. Fun.

          • Q.E.Dumbass

            The 2020 Democratic Primary should end with Susan Sarandon and [insert major pink anarchist bunny media figure here – let’s say Cenk Uygur] being executed live on the DNC stage.

            • rm

              Which will be set up as an Aztec pyramid. It’s gonna be so awesome. Tom Perez wields the ceremonial knife.

              • jim, some guy in iowa

                I had thought in terms of Ellison and Perez doing something scripted by Quentin Tarantino but I like your idea better

              • *perks up*

                Hey, you didn’t tell me you read my political fiction.

              • Origami Isopod

                Who gets to dance in their skins afterward?

                • N__B

                  I had dreamed, years ago, of being Brad, but if dancing in Janet’s skin is as close as I’ll get, c’est la vie.

              • ForkyMcSpoon

                I think it would be an inspiring show of unity if Hillary and Bernie wielded the knife together.

            • Dr. Acula

              Oh god, Cenk Uygur is so desperate to be a TV star that he practically begged RT to give him a spot on their propaganda channel.

              • nemdam

                I didn’t think of that. That’s where TYT is going, right? To go from Youtube to RT. He could join Ed Schultz in his manifest destiny.

                • Q.E.Dumbass

                  TYT was actually a network TV series around the 2012 election — Current TV, specifically. (Of course, the channel went defunct a year later).

          • Matt McIrvin

            I am already seeing people saying it’s Bernie 2020 or nobody.

            • Julia Grey

              I am already seeing people saying it’s Bernie 2020 or nobody.

              Sigh.

      • vic rattlehead

        Oh god some internet dumbshits will call her a neoliberal! We’re doomed!

        There will always be glib turdwaffles like Taibbi and Greenwald, and there will always be hopelessly credulous mouthbreathers licking their taints. Not much we can do about that.

        • kped

          Oh, don’t get me wrong, fuck those guys, I don’t care who they prefer or who they dislike. Just know that they are hacks and will still be hacks in 3 years (maybe even worse then, the fights they engage in now might push them further into that rage hole).

          • kped

            Speaking of those shit heads, i love this from Booman

            http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2017/4/4/135425/2671

            Everyone has their pet theory about how the Democrats should be different, and what you’ll notice before long is that all the people who are asking folks to shut up about Russia are really asking them to talk about their pet theory instead.

            For them, admitting that money and media affect elections is easy when it’s the Koch Brothers exploiting Citizens United, but when it’s Russians manipulating their Facebook feed, that’s a threat to their worldview that all would be rosy if only Sanders had been nominated or Clinton had campaigned in Wisconsin or neoliberalism had been strangled in the crib.

            These rearview battles are the real distraction. The president is bleeding like a stuck pig, and people want to run to his rescue because it’s all a big distraction from the thing they really care about.

            He has those guys dead to fucking rights here (this is a follow up to another post he had about Taibbi’s latest RS article)

            • vic rattlehead

              Yeah I read Booman’s takedown of Taibbi today too. That was a good one.

            • zoomar

              Taibbi writing has lost some edge since the Intercept experience. For a guy with razor sharp perception, the Trump/Russia nexus is just passing him by. His work on the 2008 crash was brilliant as was his work on the Iraq war. I’m sorry that his voice just doesn’t have much to offer in the era of Trump. He was essential reading during the Bush years. I’ve enjoyed his work since the Buffalo Beast days with Ian Murphy and hope he gets his mojo back.

          • vic rattlehead

            I wanted to edit my comment to make it clear that I wasn’t stacking you but alas.

            • kped

              No worries, it allowed me to post that link and block quote, which I hope more people read. I think we are on the same page.

      • efgoldman

        Greenwald and Taibbi will say Democrats haven’t learnt their lesson

        Fuck
        Them
        My granddaughter will be seven in 2020, and I trust her judgement more.

    • mojrim

      Actually, it makes me like her. A lot.

    • Princetonlawyer

      See my comment, above, on how much I love her cursing. For people who haven’t read the article yet, it’s worth the time. I have never seen a politician, male or female, quite so free with the casual profanity in a major interview. My favorite:

      Gillibrand’s Cabinet votes lined up with her principles: “I look at each nominee,” she told me. “If they suck, I vote against them. If they’re worthy, I vote for them.”

      I can still remember my mother telling me (in around 1976) not to say “suck,” because “you don’t know what it means, but it’s not nice.” It’s true, I didn’t know. But we all know now, and Gillibrand doesn’t mince words: they suck.

    • Abbey Bartlet

      The bros will still get the vapors over KG because she endorsed Hillary instead of the One True Progressive. Also something something Wall Street.

    • nemdam

      The brogressive case against Gillibrand is endless. One of the biggest purity tests is they will point out that she was a defense attorney working with Philip Morris as a client. “She defended BIG TOBACCO! SHE IS NEOLIBERAL!!!!” Of course, they will ignore the part where she used this experience to reexamine her career and decided to go into public service to do something useful with her life. In other words, she did what we wish everyone who was climbing the corporate ladder would do. But she was neoliberal so she’s out. But they are NOT against women presidents because they will again support Jill Stein and a phantom Elizabeth Warren.

      • Abbey Bartlet

        But they are NOT against women presidents because they will again support Jill Stein and a phantom Elizabeth Warren.

        And Tulsi!

    • personwhoreads

      It’s possible purity progressives will boycott her as Hillary Part 2 once they learn more about her history. I think this blogger is often unfairly critical of good Dems for having the audacity to represent the voters of their moderate/conservative districts, but this is quite the anti-Gillibrand screed. http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/2017/04/would-kirsten-gillibrand-be-even-more.html?m=1

  • A politician who explains her changed positions as the product of learning, admitting having been wrong before? It’s so crazy, it might just work!

    • NoMoreAltCenter

      It is indistinguishable from opportunism, tbh.

      • kped

        You’re indistinguishable from a troll, tbh

        (Btw, everyone does it, even Saint Bernard)

      • Can you name a single American politician who ever did anything of note that didn’t change their opinion on significant issues at least once?

      • vic rattlehead

        and we should give a shit because ____________?

        • rm

          Of her unforgivable penislessness, I infer.

      • Origami Isopod

        A truly moral person never changes their mind when presented with new-to-them information. So it is said by bible bashers and, it seems, by Bernouts.

      • Scott Lemieux

        It is indistinguishable from opportunism, tbh.

        Even if this was true, who gives a fuck? LBJ was an opportunist. FDR was an opportunist. Lincoln was an opportunist. It’s a meaningless criticism.

        • Matt McIrvin

          Obama’s position “evolved” in a highly unconvincing manner on same-sex marriage.

          • Hogan

            Which is way more important than the fact that gay people can now get married.

            • Matt McIrvin

              Of course it isn’t, but my point is, it’s not surprising to see a politician acting like a politician.

              • Hogan

                Yeah, sorry, I know, and that was my point too. The “never forget, never forgive” attitude is political poison.

        • rhino

          Opportunism is essential to politics. And to governance, more importantly.

          As always, the important part is the moral position of the actor, and the result.

        • Rob in CT

          “The Emancipation Proclamation is just another example of disHonest Abe’s opportunism. For shame! He waits until he gets a battlefield “victory” (really a bloody draw but Abrahmists will puff up anything you know) and then issues his grand proclamation that frees hardly any slaves. What a turncoat! What we need in 1864 is a REAL abolitionist, like Horace Greenly.”

        • nemdam

          Why, it’s almost as though being a successful politician means, wait for it, taking advantage of opportunities. WHO KNEW?

          Maybe, just maybe, this is the reason St. Bernie and his cult have never accomplished anything.

      • Chetsky

        Fool’s never heard of John Maynard Effin’ Keynes (actually Paul Samuelson, saying he was quoting Keynes, but hey).

  • Steve LaBonne

    Another run from Bernie is a prospect that excites me only slightly more than being inoculated with anthrax. And that’s after voting for him in the primary last year (a vote I’d like to have back).

    • wjts

      I voted for Sanders in the primary and don’t regret it, but I can’t say that I’m particularly enthused by the prospect of him running again.

      • delazeur

        Same. More because of his supporters than because of him, although even if it weren’t for his supporters I would think that his time has passed.

      • Gregor Sansa

        +2864974

      • witlesschum

        Yeah. I’m glad Bernie ran and I voted for him, but I think he’s done his part. As someone said above, this country needs some new blood.

      • Murc

        This.

        Sanders will be 79 in 2020 and would be nearing ninety in 2028. And Presidentin’, if you take it at all seriously, is a high-stress job that ages you considerably.

        Sanders was borderline in 2016. In 2020? I’d need an extremely compelling reason to vote for him again. Like, it would have to be a Sanders/Cuomo primary or something.

        • Q.E.Dumbass

          If that comes to pass, then I will literally eat a baby.

          And while I voted Clinton in the primary, my opinion of Sanders only changed from “did his part” to “you disappoint me” within the last month…but given how his douchier supporters have acted, I really think the unidentified male should’ve been the primary candidate to represent the further-left this cycle.

        • vic rattlehead

          I would vote Sanders over Cuomo in a heartbeat. Pretty much anyone else though? I’d take Bayh as someone mentioned upthread (LOL) over him. Cuomo vs Sanders really is the only scenario I can think of.

          • Q.E.Dumbass

            What about Webb?

            • vic rattlehead

              As a New Yorker I have some strong antipathy towards Cuomo. I don’t think Webb has stabbed his own party in the back (happy to be corrected). I think a 79 year old Sanders redux would be a terrible idea. I liked Sanders but in that scenario he’s the jumping out of a burning building to Cuomo’s burning to death. I would probably just swallow the Webb shit sandwich.

              • Abbey Bartlet

                I don’t think Webb has stabbed his own party in the back (happy to be corrected).

                I do think there’s a 50/50 chance he voted for Gary Johnson though.

                • zoomar

                  Personally engineering a Republican state senate over his own party just to be a dick. Needlessly picking fights, obstructing a progressive NYC mayor just to be a dick, would certainly qualify as stabbing your party in the back. Plus Webb is the best one can expect from a Democrat in his state. Not so with Cuomo.

                • Abbey Bartlet

                  Personally engineering a Republican state senate over his own party just to be a dick. Needlessly picking fights, obstructing a progressive NYC mayor just to be a dick, would certainly qualify as stabbing your party in the back. Plus Webb is the best one can expect from a Democrat in his state. Not so with Cuomo.

                  I mean…I wasn’t disagreeing with you about Cuomo’s shittiness…just noting that Webb may have voted for Johnson…

                • ForkyMcSpoon

                  Plus Webb is the best one can expect from a Democrat in his state.

                  Maybe at the time.

                  Virginia can do a lot better now.

            • randy khan

              Luckily, I don’t think we’ll have to worry about Webb.

              • I plan on writing in Lincoln Chafee in 2020 but only because the Deep State will have framed Jill Stein as a Russian spy by then.

            • Matt McIrvin

              I know a guy who wrote in Webb for his general-election vote, and, despite his hatred for Donald Trump, is still convinced that he did the right thing. Whatever.

        • EliHawk

          Hell, I’d vote for Cuomo in that. At least he could do the damn job. And as perhaps the most craven, incentive conscious national politician around, probably able to be pushed in some productive ways if you got him away from Albany.

      • NoMoreAltCenter

        It would probably be more appropriate for him to endorse a successor, although, yeah, I would vote for him. People are living longer and all that. Pick a good VP just…in…case and I would be fine.

        • kped

          successor to what? his throne? lol, wtf this even mean?

          • kped

            Too much of the Bernie stuff is creepy cult of personality. NMAC is a good example of that…

        • Sly

          NO MORE POLITICAL DYNASTIES

          • Jane Sanders 2020

            • rea

              Because, as Trump showed us, the keys to winning the presidency are corrupt land deals and bankruptcy.

          • nemdam

            Political dynasties are fine as long as they don’t write children’s books.

    • Sly

      And that’s after voting for him in the primary last year (a vote I’d like to have back).

      Nearly a year later, I still believe that my decision to stay home and watch the last two episodes of the second season of Daredevil instead of voting in the New York Democratic Primary was the best possible decision of the ones available to me.

      • wjts

        I disagree. All those ninjas made it look like an unfunny issue of The Tick.

        • econoclast

          I think that’s an important part of Sly’s point.

  • Jackson87

    Gillibrand, Brown, Whitehouse, Schiff, Merkley,…Michelle?

    • rfm

      MANCHIN

    • Merkley is my Senator and a damn good one. I want him to continue doing his good work in the Senate. He’s also a pretty dull speaker. Oregon isn’t known for its charismatic politicians.

    • StellaB

      I love Gillibrand and Brown, but I have a soft spot for the junior senator from Minnesota, myself. He would be the first Jewish president.

      Since my Gov. Brown is too old to run, how about Oregon’s Gov. Brown? That would blew up a few right wing brains.

      • Take my post from above and multiply it by four. Kate Brown is a legislator’s legislator and a liberal technocrat who has won many safe elections in a small, blue (and increasingly so) state. She could end up in the US Senate except that Wyden and Merkley are probably going to be there forever.

    • efgoldman

      Gillibrand, Brown, Whitehouse, Schiff, Merkley,…Michelle?

      Whitehouse is one of my senators, and I like him a lot. But personality wise, he gets closer to Dukakis on the spectrum than Bill Clinton or Obama.
      I’m also pretty sure we’d elect another Dem to the senate to replace him, but still…

      • efgoldman

        Also am really impressed by Schiff, but I can’t imagine a house member winning the nomination, never mind the election.
        OTOH, if DiFi ever retires or dies, he’d make a hell of a senator.

        • N__B

          I can’t imagine a house member winning the nomination, never mind the election.

          Ar you saying that the end of The West Wing was unrealistic? Quelle horreur!

        • wjts

          If I remember correctly, the only sitting Representative ever elected president was James Garfield.

          • Matt McIrvin

            Until 2008, there was a lot of talk about how the Senate was actually a poor stepping-stone to the Presidency: lots of former Senators have been President, but of the 20th-century ones, three were elected Vice-President first (and two of them initially became President through succession).

            Of course, Donald Trump throws all the patterns out the window.

            The more recent traditional path has been through a Governorship. That’s a problem for the Democratic Party because we just don’t have a lot of Governors these days.

        • ForkyMcSpoon

          The top two primary system they’ve got there now might cause some problems for DiFi.

          Well, I hope it does anyway.

          Another Democrat vs. Democrat general election seems quite plausible, and I doubt DiFi will be the left-most candidate in that race.

        • bender

          Supposing Feinstein doesn’t retire–

          If life in the meantime doesn’t distract us from state politics, it will be interesting to see whether the other Democrats running in the open primary are hopeless, one decently funded daredevil, or a free for all of every termed out ambitious politician in California who isn’t willing to wait any longer.

      • IM

        ideal name, though.

    • I’d vote for Sheldon Whitehouse just for the bad puns.

  • stonetools

    Gillebrand-Schiff 2020! you heard it here first!

    Actually, this is absurd. Nobody saw Obama running in 2005, and nobody saw Trump running in 2013. We just don’t know yet.
    We might want to go straight white male on the top of the ticket, though. I don’t like the idea of playing it safe by pandering to “traditional” attitudes, but I like the idea of the Democrats losing in 2020 even less ( Full disclosure: I am an African American male).
    If we want to go the white guy route, Chris Murphy and Jeff Merkley look good

    • jim, some guy in iowa

      I don’t know that a white guy is needed if the eventual nominee is someone who *everybody* can get behind- or at least shut up about their reservations. No matter who gets the nomination, another general election where a loud minority backbites and prances about doing nose-holds all the way up to election night will not go well for us

    • bender

      101 years after women got the vote, “It’s too soon, the country isn’t ready.” Really?

      • Q.E.Dumbass

        Well, it’s not like Chris Rock and Dave Chappelle were surprised by the election results. (The same attitude, especially w/r/t minority backlash, is expressed in this hilarious XXL piece).

        But yeah, preemptively surrender to white backlash at this point is just paranoia. (Keep in mind I’m also an AA male).

      • Matt McIrvin

        I think there’s a possibility that 400 years from now, the US or whatever successor state exists in its place will be the only country on Earth never to have had a female head of government.

    • dmsilev

      Nobody saw Obama running in 2005

      After his Convention keynote speech in summer 2004 followed by the outcome of the 2004 election, people absolutely did see Obama running for the 2008 nomination.

      • random

        Thanks, I assumed he was going to be the next President.

      • Sly

        Fuckin’ David Brooks saw it coming. David Brooks.

      • StellaB

        My ex-Republican father was talking about him by 2006. As much as I liked HRC, I was leaning BHO by early 2007. Sadly, I thought those damn ovaries would be an electoral problem. I’m old and disappointed by life.

      • Gizmo

        My dad ran a non-profit, and met him back when he was doing his community organizing work. The take from several people was “This guy is going to pre president some day”

      • Matt McIrvin

        My mother-in-law saw that speech and immediately said “that man is the first black President”. I don’t think everyone saw him for 2008, though; some people were talking about him as a 2008 VP candidate and maybe becoming President in 2016 or 2020. He was young; he had a lot of time.

    • kped

      How is “straight white men” the lesson you learnt from this election? Clinton was a unique candidate, on top of being a woman. She had 30 years of insane conspiracy theories directed at her from the right and far left, plus Russian meddling, plus Comey…

      …and she still got 3 million more votes and only lost by a slim 80K margin in 3 states.

      A different female candidate will not have those same circumstances. A lesson can be “don’t run someone with so much baggage”, and that’s probably a great idea! But “only run straight white males” is the absolute wrong lesson to learn. Now, not saying a straight white male is a bad choice, but it should be on the merits of the candidate, not some fear of losing because “ew, another girl” (which again, is not the real reason Hillary lost).

      • Q.E.Dumbass

        Minority backlash paranoia.

      • rm

        A whitebread Ken doll is not preferable to a talented campaigner who is female and/or a POC. It just happens that currently Gillibrand, Booker, and Kamala Harris seem like the most charismatic likely candidates. I don’t know if some governor is out there. Someone else with talent might come along. But I’ll go with someone inspiring before I cynically choose a white male out of fear. That choice only really works for the bigot party anyway. Chris Rock may have been unsurprised by white supremacy winning again, but white supremacy is the Republican brand. We’ve got to have a different message anyway.

    • Princetonlawyer

      Gillibrand-Duckworth. I’ll see you a straight white male and raise you a foul-mouthed motherfuckin’ political genius, and a double-amputee war veteran.
      (In other words, I do agree with your post, and I think the way Tammy jams her Terminator-style prostheses into pumps, sticking out from below a skirt, might be what it takes to neutralize–hell, hopefully vaporize, well, at least EXPOSE the racists/misogynists. They’re already looking like fools on her being half-Asian:
      http://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/mark-kirk-questions-tammy-duckworth-s-family-s-service-heritage-n674331

      • I hereby endorse the idea of a Gillibrand-Duckworth ticket.

      • MyNameIsZweig

        Max Cleland would like to have a word with you about the possibility of Duckworth’s protheses neutralizing any particular Republican line of attack.

        That said, it’s still an attractive ticket.

    • Chetsky

      There was a joke, back in the day, that the reason Obama got elected, was that white men had screwed up the country so bad, only a black man was willing to actually take the job of cleaning it up. Given we’ve got the Tangerine Usurper and his Recessive Dimwit Spawn doing the effing-up this time, maybe we should be expecting Harris, Booker, or Patrick?

      • Chetsky

        ETA: to be clear, it’s just a joke, and I (like many here) feel privileged to have been alive during his time as President. And feel a little tight spot in my throat every time I see him and Michelle. But it’s still funny, b/c he sure had a shitstorm to clean up.

      • rhino

        “Black man given worst job in country”, was the ‘headline’ in a political cartoon around that time.

    • Everyone saw Obama running in 2005; his speech at the DNC was a dead giveaway. At that point I would already have been shocked if anyone else had been our next nominee, and would’ve been somewhat surprised if he hadn’t been the next president. It was immediately obvious to me how much political talent he had. And the shitgibbon had already run once in 2012, so his run wasn’t surprising either; what was surprising is that people voted for him this time, for some reason that remains entirely incomprehensible to me.

      • Abbey Bartlet

        what was surprising is that people voted for him this time, for some reason that remains entirely incomprehensible to me.

        R-A-C-I-S-M.

        • Well, yes. But after Obama won twice, I was kind of surprised to see that it was still this strong. Then again, Obama’s victories were probably a reason racism got stronger than I expected. Live and learn, I guess.

    • Rob in CT

      Two things, other than the obvious yes people saw Obama coming by then thing, which multiple people have already pointed out:

      1) Chris Murphy’s a nice enough fellow and I’m happy w/him as my senator, but he’s from a dinky little NE state (that I quite like, but…) and I have no idea if he has the political skills necessary to credibly run for POTUS; and

      2) Murphy is all-in on gun control, because Newtown. My read of this issue politically is that we’ve lost it pretty decisively (for now) and need to change a lot of minds before it can be an asset rather than a liability in a Pres campaign.

      Frankly, his resume is pretty thin too, but whatever. Clearly THAT doesn’t matter (unless it’s yet another IOKAYAR thing).

      • Rob in CT

        Gah, forgot to add: one thing Murphy is really good on is campaign finance/money in politics.

  • Murc

    But outside of that, I am more interested in Gillibrand than anyone else right now, including another run from Bernie. She has really good political instincts and is just a flat out great politician. Of course, going to the big stage is another huge test, but her chances seem good, she’s going to be a great counter to the inevitable Cuomo run, and she got why Trump needs to be opposed at all costs earlier than nearly everyone else.

    I endorse everything in this post.

    The only thing I’m unsure about is whether or not Gillibrand has or can generate star power, if she can make people feel that tingle up their legs that it seems a non-trivial part of the electorate across the entire political spectrum is really looking for. Brutal experience has shown that we kinda need that. I mean, I’m cautiously enthused for her, but I am an outlier and should not be counted.

    I’m honestly not sure Cuomo runs. He’s got a good thing going here in New York, where Governors are not term-limited, and he has to have some idea of how badly he’d get pulverized in a national primary. I don’t think he’s dumb enough to believe that a party that just lost with Hillary Clinton will turn its lonely eyes to him.

    I hope Sanders doesn’t run again, for reasons outlined above. The rest of the field would need to be very shitty for me to consider him. Like, no Warren, no Gillibrand, no Brown, nothing. (I don’t want Brown to run either because the Ohio senate seat is not secure, but otherwise I’d be enthused by the prospect.)

    • wjts

      I think the only way I’d vote for Sanders in 2020 is in a primary race against Cuomo and/or Jim Webb.

      • Abbey Bartlet

        I think the only way I’d vote for Sanders in 2020 is in a primary race against Cuomo and/or Jim Webb.

        Sanders would be 102 years old by 2028. That would give me hella pause even if I didn’t already hate him.

    • Davis X. Machina

      …he has to have some idea of how badly he’d get pulverized in a national primary.

      Not if nobody in his coterie tells him, and I doubt anybody does. I suspect he’s Andrew Goddamn Cuomo, and no one talks to me like that.

    • eclare

      The only thing I’m unsure about is whether or not Gillibrand has or can generate star power, if she can make people feel that tingle up their legs that it seems a non-trivial part of the electorate across the entire political spectrum is really looking for.

      I’ve never heard her speak, and even if I had I’m a terrible judge of such things, but the article Loomis linked to suggests that she can bring a room to its feet when she turns it on.

    • kvs

      You mean if she can channel the Rev. Gillibrand from the opening scene?

    • vic rattlehead

      I can see Cuomo doing one more term but for Christs sake I’ve been sick of him from day one. Since he came back to New York from the Clinton Administration. And I voted for the fucker. If he wants anything beyond that I don’t see it. He got embarrassed in the 2014 primary by a political nonentity.

      • N__B

        I would support him for Queens Borough President. He deserves the soul-destroying job of Beep.

        • Abbey Bartlet

          I would support him for Queens Borough President. He deserves the soul-destroying job of Beep.

          MTA chief during the L shutdown?

          • N__B

            That requires some actual skill in logistics and planning to understand what the real planners and contractors are saying.

    • Abbey Bartlet

      The only thing I’m unsure about is whether or not Gillibrand has or can generate star power, if she can make people feel that tingle up their legs that it seems a non-trivial part of the electorate across the entire political spectrum is really looking for.

      I met her at a small fundraiser during her first Senate election. She has it.

  • West of the Cascades

    Gillibrand / Franken. And hope that Trump/Pence run again – I would prepare a 30-gallon kettle of popcorn to watch that VP debate.

    • Q.E.Dumbass

      Dear God, YES.

      • NoMoreAltCenter

        Franken is a goof and a Clintonite. No way.

        • You’re as shallow as a soup plate.

        • randy khan

          Franken has surprised me with how sharp he is on policy. The funny is a bonus.

        • Chetsky

          Child, being a comedian is hard work. And he did a better job in many a hearing than anybody else there. He does his homework.

        • Rob in CT

          Aside from what everyone else said, Gillibrand is a “Clintonite” too, in all the ways that fucking morons like you will latch onto. She has altered her positions on issues (gasp!)! She has, in the past, taken money from Banksters (oh dear)! She’s *psst* AMBITIOUS. And she even thinks she’s just as qualified as any “30 year old guy” out there (Identity politics!).

          • Abbey Bartlet

            Side note, there’s another double standard I encountered a lot:
            Hillbot: “Bernie has a relatively shitty record on guns.”
            Berner: “That’s because he’s from Vermont. You can’t expect him to totally ignore the wishes of his constituents!!”

            Berner: “Hillary has an incredibly shitty record on Wall Street!!!”
            Hillbot: “Wall Street is literally in New York. You can’t expect her to totally ignore the wishes of her constituents!”
            Berner: “ABSOLUTELY NOT. CORPORATE SELLOUT.”

            • MyNameIsZweig

              Hahaha yep.

          • nemdam

            Oh, she’s not just any Clintonite. She says one of her inspirations to get involved with politics was a Hillary speech! And worked on Hillary’s 2000 campaign! The brogressives (and sadly probably the media at large) will just treat her as a Hillary clone.

        • Origami Isopod

          I’m unsurprised that a humorless asshole does not understand the value that a former comedian can bring to politics.

    • NonyNony

      Let’s not bleed all of the Dems out of the Senate please. There has to be a decent Dem governor out there to serve as a running mate, doesn’t there?

      • NoMoreAltCenter

        Cuomo

      • Murc

        There’s a whole other house of Congress as well.

      • Denverite

        Hickenlooper is term-limited in 2018 if you don’t mind a bipartisan ticket. Best damn Republican governor Colorado has ever had.

        • Denverite

          (For the uninitiated, the joke is that Hick is actually a Democrat. A pro-business, pro-fracking, pro-school choice Democrat, but a Democrat all the same.)

      • Breadbaker

        Jay Inslee has been surprisingly effective in opposing Trump, and since everyone assumes that Bob Ferguson, the even more effective AG, will succeed him as governor in 2020, he’d make a fine running mate.

    • Murc

      I’d seriously consider voting Franken for the top of the ticket. Putting him in as VP is a colossal waste of a great Senator.

      • So would I. I’d also love to have our first Jewish president. However, Franken has repeatedly said he never intends to run, which is a shame, because he’s probably one of the smartest people in the Senate, and has a strong understanding of a wide range of policy issues.

        • rhino

          I also think that to be a comedian, at least a funny one, requires the same kind of profound understanding of human nature and empathy that makes a great leader or politician.

  • West of the Cascades

    No Schiff for VP, please … he needs to spend at least four years as House Intel Committee Chair running the corruption of the outgoing Trump administration to ground and hanging it around the GOP’s neck for the next decade.

    • kvs

      I have no feelings on him for VP. But that’s a silly reason to disqualify him from consideration.

      The VP nominee is going to only be on the campaign for about 5 months at the end of 2020. By then, the investigation will have either paid off or gone nowhere.

      Plus, the House investigation isn’t going to accomplish shit. The action is in the Senate.

      • Right – plus, if Schiff becomes VP then he’ll still have plenty of authority to conduct Russia investigations if needed, I’d assume.

  • rfm

    Can’t wait for “SHE’S A BLUE DOG” dudes. Who will all be Manchin supporters.

  • Hells Littlest Angel

    I fear that American sexism would defeat her, but I’d support and vote for her anyway.

  • Denverite

    In an abundance of caution, what do we know about Gillibrand’s email management policies and protocols?

    • The only committee she’s on where I can see her doing much of anything with classified documents is Armed Services, and even so my understanding was that Senators are usually briefed in person.

      • StellaB

        Well, if she looks like a viable candidate, they’ll find something equally awful soon. She eats oatmeal for breakfast, her childhood dog was hit by a car, she mangled a sentence in a speech, or some other crime against humanity.

        • Matt McIrvin

          Something arugula-related.

          • ForkyMcSpoon

            She asked for sriracha on her hotdog!

  • kvs

    It certainly sounds like she gets it. That’s quite the turnaround from when she was appointed.

  • Snuff curry

    “We visit together at Bible study and we talk about our families and things outside of the Senate,” says Joni Ernst, the Iowa Republican whose campaign ads touted her experience castrating pigs.

    Apropos of nothing, but I love this.

    • Snuff curry

      Gillibrand is a bit of a gender essentialist. “Just literally having 51 percent of women in Congress representing the diversity of our country: You would have different issues raised, different solutions being offered, you’d have less partisan bickering,” she says. “Because our disposition is to help. When we do our legislation, we’re not trying to figure out how can I use this to run against you; we say, ‘How can we pass this bill to help both of our constituents?’ Our economy would be stronger, because we’d be dealing with things like paid leave and equal pay legitimately, as opposed to just using it as a talking point.”

      Traister doesn’t know what essentialism is, though.

      “The guys run every time. I can’t tell you how many 30-year-old dudes believe they should be senator or president.”

      Uh-oh.

      • Origami Isopod

        “I can’t tell you how many 30-year-old dudes believe they should be senator or president.”

        “Lord, give me the confidence of a mediocre white man.”

        • weirdnoise

          Vote the Dunning–Kruger ticket!

      • Rob in CT

        “The guys run every time. I can’t tell you how many 30-year-old dudes believe they should be senator or president.”

        I saw that line and grinned. Also applicable to 70-year old men who have never done anything worthwhile in their lives, of course…

  • sleepyirv

    I vaguely remember Gilibrand being called a Wall Street shill, without remembering why. A quick google search turned up this Atlantic article saying Gilibrand was a future Presidential candidate back in 2013 (which naturally feels like a million years ago). So she took a bunch of Wall Street money, tried to fiddle with the Volcker rule, and got called out on it by John Oliver. It’s not much (and not recent), but it’s not nothing.

    I suppose it will come down to how voters feel about adaptable politicians and how good Gilibrand is at adapting. So far she has a great record at that, but it would be nice if she sent a strong message that she will have a Main Street, not Wall Street, focused Treasury department.

  • Abbey Bartlet

    I’ve been on the K GIll 2024 train for ages. She’s fantastic at retail politics, evolves with new information, smart as a whip, hardworking, 1000 watt smile. And I wish it didn’t matter, but, well, she’s pretty hot.

    • Snuff curry

      Charisma matters, sort of, and she has it. I’m generally incredibly uncomfortable listening to pols speechify — public speaking and public performances tend to fill me with embarrassment no matter the quality of art or entertainment — but I like her, even scripted. I’ve seen her before but I’m more familiar with hearing her on the radio and I was surprised by her age. 2024 is exactly right. She has plenty of time. The linked article is interesting because the angle is to reassure us she’s not a wonk but a working, bread-and-butter sort, angling for bipartisanship for also staking out a position, particularly these past two months, as hardnosed and ideological when necessary. I would kill for a “Romanes, They Go the Fuck Home” campaign slogan.

      • Abbey Bartlet

        2024 is exactly right.

        No, no, dude, I want her for 2020 now. 2024 would imply either another 4 years of the GOP or a one-term Dem.

        • rhino

          Beating the forces of evil in 2018 and 2020 are existentially important, and people need to internalize it.

          There will be no long game, if we don’t win the short game.

  • Joe_JP

    As someone who was supportive of her when some didn’t want her to be appointed senator, I have long seen her as promising. Hillary Clinton is her mentor, so those who love Clinton should be happy. Gillibrand has a good political sense while continuously trying to find support across the aisle.* So she can sell that “uniting” line some want. The article explains how she is comfortable using religious imagery too.

    My only concern is that she won’t be seen as properly skilled in foreign policy (being secretary of state was useful there) but given her likely opposition and the record of various recent presidential candidates, that seems something she can handle. Plus, her efforts to deal with sexual abuse in the military and other issues provides some bona fides there too.

    * One conservative Republicans senator compared her to a ‘honey badger’ [the animal] for her persistence. In her autobiography, she said that she basically took it as a compliment.

    • Joe_JP

      Another positive profile in my feed today.

      The tagline this time is “It’s Kirsten,” her response when a Trump fundraising email misspelled her name.

  • Abbey Bartlet

    I’m beginning to think we need a running open thread for 2020.

    • Rob in CT

      How about 2018 first?

      • Abbey Bartlet

        It will just be people fretting.

      • N__B

        An open thread on 2020, pinned to the top, would be an excellent honey pot for trolls. Once we collect them all there, we shoot it into the sun!

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