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On the Trump Intelligence Memo

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brockmangolden

I assume our foreign policy team will be weighing in at some point, but in the meantime this seems sensible.  Of course, this doesn’t mean don’t make jokes about Trump.

In isolation, it’s appropriate that this unverified and prejudicial information didn’t leak during the election. But…

The EMAILS! apparently weren’t even new, but you know, heckuva job.

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  • The Temporary Name

    There’s nothing as good as a leak.

    • Lamont Cranston

      There’s nothing as good as a leak.

      Oh mmmyyyy…

      Seriously, the allegation that he has a urination fetish is the nicest thing I’ve heard about Donald Trump in ages.

      • jamesjhare

        With you on that one. I would have figured he was into Joffrey-level shit given his love for punching down.

    • Judas Peckerwood

      I’m sure it’s just a wee misunderstanding.

      • The Temporary Name

        Ooh, urine trouble.

        • N__B

          The theme song of the Trump cabinet:

          Urine the money
          Urine the money
          You’ve got a lot of what it takes to get along

          • The Temporary Name

            I can hear the tinkling of the keys now.

          • Nobdy

            Not: (to the tune of Islands in the Stream’s chorus)

            Watching Hookers’ streams
            That is what I love
            Where Obama dreamed
            Gush out nice and strong
            Pee it all for me
            For this wad of cash
            And we are filmed by the Russians, ah ha
            Putin’s gonna want some popcorn ah ha

            • Mike G

              Haha
              +10

        • Manju

          But he’s still #1.

        • Captain Oblivious

          Isn’t that, uh-oh, urine trouble?

    • ForkyMcSpoon

      We were all blind not to see it before.

      He built a goddamn gigantic golden shower RIGHT INTO HIS HOUSE:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63xGOcQQNUY

      (SFW)

    • Harry Hardrada

      Whoever leaked this is a real intel whiz kid.

      • Manju

        Definitely not a peon.

        • benjoya

          on his way up the corporate bladder

    • Russian leaks?
      PEETUS?
      Golden Gate?

      (disclosure: all of these are stolen)

      • Moondog von Superman

        Well, he’s PEEOTUS for now. I won’t be terribly surprised if he becomes POOTUS at some point. (Sorry.)

  • McAllen

    A few people having been saying this already, but on the golden showers thing, it’s not the pee fetish in-and-of itself that’s gross. It’s that he allegedly did it to revenge himself on the Obamas.

    • q-tip

      I’m prepared to acknowledge that a pee fetish is HARMLESS, but I reserve the right to find it gross. (If the fundies took that tack on BUTTSECKS etc, we’d be living in a better world.)

      Edit: I missed the revenge on Obama bit. You’re right, if that’s true, it’s childish and gross.

      • Captain Oblivious

        It’s worse than childish. It’s unhinged and rage-driven.

        • efgoldman

          It’s worse than childish. It’s unhinged and rage-driven.

          In other words, typical of the Peach Pissant.

    • Lasker

      If this is made up, the person who came up with that part is a genius.

      • Jean-Michel

        A true black-comic masterstroke. The author (assuming it was made up) would’ve had a hard time topping the part about Trump gathering Russian prostitutes to watch anime porn with him, but they really outdid themselves.

        • I saw that hentai thing on Twitter, but it’s a joke, right? It’s not in the documents Buzzfeed posted. That definitely seems like a channer joke to me. (Some of them are also claiming that the bed-pissing was also invented on 4chan)

          • Jean-Michel

            Yeah, you’re right, I got played. Apparently it’s an old meme (meaning at least a year, which I guess isn’t that old).

    • jamesjhare

      The whole thing doesn’t make sense. How are you hurting the Obamas by having hookers piss on a bed he’ll never use again? The most you’re really doing is making a mess for hotel housekeeping to clean up and no other guest to know about.

      No matter what this story has cost Marriott one mattress in Moscow. The guests that would stay in that room would not be pleased to sleep in the pee bed.

      • ForkyMcSpoon

        Or they’d be thrilled to touch a part of history.

        Anyway, why do it? Because Trump is a Satanist and it was part of a Satanic piss ritual to hex Obama #soulpissing

        (Makes as much sense as “soul cooking”)

      • BobBobNewhartNewhartSpecial

        The whole thing doesn’t make sense.

        I’m pretty sure that the fact it makes no sense, yet some people are actually discussing it as if it might somehow make sense, is the whole point of the troll.

      • Jean-Michel

        The chance that Trump is genuinely insane is not trivial. This goes regardless of whether the mattress story is true. I really do fear America elected Martin Sheen in The Dead Zone, just minus the Biblical fervor.

  • jim, some guy in iowa

    I look at from LBJ’s point of view: make the sonofabitch deny it

    • N__B

      I did not have pee with that woman!

      • benjoya

        win

    • Remember that LBJ also said it was better to have your enemy inside the tent pissing out than outside pissing in.

    • (((Malaclypse)))

      There’s no chance Trump will start tweeting about this sometime around 3:00 am. He’ll be able to hold it.

    • Captain Oblivious

      Normally, I’d have a problem with that, but in this case…no.

  • nemdam

    Given that James Comey knew all of this during the campaign, is it possible that he has been compromised? I don’t know what motivated him, but I can’t think of a more plausible explanation. Gross incompetence or extreme partisanship don’t seem sufficient. Maybe a personal grudge against Hillary such as he knew she was going to fire him? I’m searching for any other plausible explanation.

    • I guess that’s possible, but the simpler explanation is just that Comey is a partisan Republican hack who shared the NY field office’s opinion that Clinton was unacceptable and needed to be stopped at all costs.

      • Nobdy

        If he installed a Russian agent over a normal politician he did not like he is a traitor.

        I wish I found saying that more convincing as proof he didn’t do it…

        • smott999

          I thought that Coney’s NY office had leaked the Clinton laptop stuff (likely to Chaffetz), who would then leak to the press, making Comey look like he was protecting Clinton.
          So he got out ahead of it to save his worthless hack ass.

          Now he sits in front of Congress and swears he’d never do such a thing.

      • Gee Suss

        He investigated the Clintons for Whitewater and Marc Rich. He is a Clinton-hater through and through.

        • Gizmo

          How is that this didn’t disqualify him from an Obama nominations? The mind boggles.

          • ΧΤΠΔ

            Because…um…maybe, because Chuck Hagel didn’t completely suck?… and, that like, meant an avowed enemy of his Secretary of State…um…seriously, wtf?……

            Yeah I got nothing, so I’m just going to go with “alien possession.”

          • Incontinentia Buttocks

            Because, the pundits like to slice and dice our country into red states and blue States: red states for Republicans, blue States for Democrats. But I’ve got news for them, too. We worship an awesome God in the blue states, and we don’t like federal agents poking around our libraries in the red states.

            We coach little league in the blue states and, yes, we’ve got some gay friends in the red states.

            There are patriots who opposed the war in Iraq, and there are patriots who supported the war in Iraq.

            We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us defending the United States of America.

            Or something,

    • BobBobNewhartNewhartSpecial

      Given that James Comey knew all of this during the campaign… I’m searching for any other plausible explanation.

      He has a pee fetish?

      • GeorgeBurnsWasRight

        At least Comey doesn’t dress in drag and have his lover as a top aide, AS FAR AS WE KNOW.

  • ΧΤΠΔ

    Assuming that this is false and the intel agencies/McCain/et al. know it to be so, what are the odds Donald stays in office by December 31?

    I’d say 4.83%, as it’d indicate that a) a Congressional impeachment effort has actual legs, or b) the CIA’s painted a giant bullseye on Donald’s back.

    • I have been skeptical of the “they’ll impeach Trump for Pence” theory. Now, I’m less skeptical. It’s not that the information in this very sketchy “dossier” is all that credible, it’s that now there’s a simple and titillating hook.

      At this point, you gotta figure that Ryan and McConnell are on the edge of their seats. There’s so much they want to pass, but which play is better: dump Trump (which has a lot of unknowns, will piss of their base, and for which they would need a lot of Democratic help) OR let this pass, denigrate the source, and get on with slashing the upper class tax rate? My money’s still on the latter, but the former is starting to look like a possibility.

      • postmodulator

        Of course, if Trump must go, then the sooner they do it, the less he hangs around their necks in 2018 and 2020.

        • Captain Oblivious

          You know Trump won’t go voluntarily.

          And I lived through Watergate and Monicagate. The hearings take forever.

        • Woodrowfan

          Of course, if Trump must go,

          (Snicker)

          • N__B

            Hey hey ho ho
            Donald Trump has got to go

            • BartletForGallifrey

              A few days after the election I passed a small group of high school girls marching down 14th Street in the rain chanting just that. It gave me hope for the future, for a brief instant.

      • ΧΤΠΔ

        for which they would need a lot of Democratic help

        Who the hell would defect?

        • postmodulator

          To replace a Russian intelligence asset with a garden-variety evil Republican monster? I damned well hope all of them would.

        • Nobody would need to defect, but the Democrats could make it maximally embarrassing all while slowing things down to a nice, gory, rubbernecking pace for all to see. That alone would risk getting anything significant done legislatively this year.

          • Steve LaBonne

            Ultimately you have to get rid of him if you have the chance, but this would be the way to play it.

      • jamesjhare

        In favor of “impeach Trump for Pence” — they could NEVER get Pence elected but he’s the perfect President for their goals. They don’t need much more than 2 years to do their damage.

        • Mike G

          They couldn’t stop Trump getting the nomination, so they made sure he won, knowing they could kneecap him with this and wheel Pence into place.

          • rhino

            I really don’t think they’re smart enough to plan this.

      • rea

        There’s so much they want to pass

        That’s a somewhat different fetish.

  • Steve LaBonne

    My favorite of several Andy Borowitz gems since this story broke:

    Dear Jim Comey,
    Thanks for keeping the dossiers about the Russians blackmailing Trump a secret before the election. You’re an amazing public servant and It’s so unfair that you will burn in Hell for eternity.
    Fuck you,
    Millions of Americans

  • Alex.S

    I posted this in the Comey thread

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/10/fbi-chief-given-dossier-by-john-mccain-alleging-secret-trump-russia-contacts

    The Guardian has learned that the FBI applied for a warrant from the foreign intelligence surveillance (Fisa) court over the summer in order to monitor four members of the Trump team suspected of irregular contacts with Russian officials. The Fisa court turned down the application asking FBI counter-intelligence investigators to narrow its focus. According to one report, the FBI was finally granted a warrant in October, but that has not been confirmed, and it is not clear whether any warrant led to a full investigation.

    As others have pointed out… WOW!, Fisa rejected a warrant!

    • Hogan

      Right?! Damn.

    • bobloblaw57

      this sort of implies to me that the warrant request was completely baseless

    • MyNameIsZweig

      That’s the whole reason I find this entire story absurd. Something like that would NEVER happen.

    • Mike G

      If they had any qualms I’m betting it was about investigating a powerful fellow Republican in a way that might damage his campaign, not any ethics about personal rights or privacy.

  • CrunchyFrog

    Reaction 1: Even with this, I can’t believe that the GOP would actually impeach him.

    Reaction 2: But, OTOH, I can’t believe that they’d risk the country and let him take office.

    Going to be an interesting 10 days. Keep in mind, getting rid of Trump is a massive win for the mainstream GOP elite and their billionaire backers:
    1) They put in Pence, whose one of them
    2) They get to replace the crazier Trump appointees with ones to their liking
    3) They get to implement their full agenda, but without Trump distractions
    4) The rest of the country breathes a huge sigh of relief and as a result there is a 9/11-like Honeymoon in which the GOP gets carte blanche
    5) Forever when accused of hyper-partisanship they point to the Trump impeachment and conviction as proof they go after a Republican
    6) They tell the populist shits who voted for Trump to piss off – after the vote suppression is fully implemented they won’t need their votes anyway

    • Nobdy

      Reaction 2: But, OTOH, I can’t believe that they’d risk the country and let him take office.

      Disagree. There is no depth to which they won’t sink. Treason doesn’t even raise Yertle’s pulse.

      I think you also underestimate the risk in depriving the deplorables of their God king. They do not like Pence. He is just another establishment repug.

      And they are steeped in conspiracy theories and will directly attribute this to the elites pushing out their golden (shower) champion.

      You’re still living in a sane responsible America, both gubbermentally and in terms of repub voters. I don’t see it that way.

      There have been reports of this since last year.

      I mean does any of this actually surprise anyone even if it is all true?

      • CrunchyFrog

        To clarify, I’m not referring to Yertle or any of the Senate members who regularly grovel at the feet of their financiers. I’m referring to the people who have power and actually care about the government. I totally disagree with them on policy, but they do have a sense of the need for stability and – in some areas – competence.

        But perhaps most importantly: Most of GOP Washington would much prefer Pence to Trump. MUCH. They went along for the ride since he won, but if they figure they can survive replacing him I bet they do.

        • Nobdy

          Who are these people exactly?

          • vic rattlehead

            People who are smart enough to realize that it doesn’t matter how many zeros you have in your bank account if Trump initiates a nuclear apocalypse because Putin said he had a small dick. It’s nice to cater to those angry white dudes who gave your party the election, but maybe even Paul Ryan is looking to his future and realizes that you can’t lobby ashes. A nuclear wasteland is no place for softhands mcsuitpants.

            • Nobdy

              Paul Ryan is the only one you’ve named, and he knew who he was getting into the (wet) bed with when he declined to repudiate Trump after all those scandals.

              They are willing to chance the nuclear war and just hope he doesn’t do it. No part of me thinks Paul frickin’ Ryan is going finally find his balls and do the right thing here, or that if he wanted to he could find the support to do it.

              Any “This will end Trump” scenario requires reasonable Republicans to do the actual ending, and the people claiming this will happen have the rather unfortunate problem that they can’t NAME any reasonable Republicans who would actually do the work of impeaching or otherwise stopping Trump.

      • jim, some guy in iowa

        where’s the risk in taking away the deplorables’ king in yellow?

        • N__B

          It depends.

          • (((Malaclypse)))

            ISWYDT.

            • jamesjhare

              Huh?

              • vic rattlehead

                Depends like the adult diapers. Joke about the reported urination fetish. Took me a second too.

        • I was just going to say that from now on I was going to refer to him as “The Golden God” rather than “The Leader”, but I like “The King in Yellow” better.

          • Chetsky

            Then again, there’s “The Yellow King” from _True Detective_.

            • The Yellow King is a direct reference to the Chambers stories, so.

              • Trump’s election feels like a slip into the alternate history of “The Repairer of Reputations”.

                • farin

                  Yet not a suicide booth in sight.

          • Or how about the King of the Golden Shower, for Terry Pratchett fans

      • jamesjhare

        The only treason in TurtleMan’s reality is betraying his party. He has no allegiance to the United States of America.

    • Steve LaBonne

      I’m having uneasy feelings about this scenario myself. I console myself with the thought that they’re not that smart. I hope.

    • wengler

      If they kill Trump they get all of this without the terrible divide of the party and new enabling laws to boot.

      • ΧΤΠΔ

        The CIA is probably thinking of doing that anyway.

        • bender

          The CIA probably has multiple scenarios and methods on the shelf for eliminating any President. That’s the main reason I haven’t been as nervous as some people about the nuclear codes.

          The flood horn just sounded in my town. Not unexpected.

          • vic rattlehead

            The next few days/months/years could provide some disconfirmation of the Deep State that pulls the strings of every President.

        • Mac the Knife

          I hope the CIA leaves him alone just so I never have to hear Ted Nugent and Kid Rock duet on ‘Abraham, Martin, and Don’

    • This is what I’m specifically depressed about. One of the things that we know is that the business community doesn’t want “uncertainty” and Trump is that. He is going to be bad for stability and that can’t happen. So if the intel stuff doesn’t bring him down, they will start talking about how he will be bad for business (not the sexual perversion stuff) And those are the people who know how to get their way.

    • vic rattlehead

      But as awful as Pence is (and slimy, and smoother than I thought from watching the VP debate) I would just be so much less angry about him. Not less angry about the radical right wing policy agenda, of course, but that it wouldn’t be THAT FUCKING YAM.

      • Pence is a horrible human being on too many levels to count, but he isn’t an overt white supermacist or self-admitted serial sexual predator, so I still regard him as a lesser evil to Trump.

        • rhino

          Honestly, I think Pence is worse. Because Pence is intelligent and knows how to work the system.

          Trump is an even worse person, but he will have a far harder time getting anything done, and with him in office there will be huge strife between factions in the republican machine.

          Trump means less harm gets done, IMO.

          • Manny Kant
          • As Manny said, Pence is not very smart. He also wouldn’t encourage white supremacists and misogynists in the way Trump has. Frankly, for people who aren’t ethnic/racial minorities or women, I think it’s difficult, if not almost impossible, to understand how important that point is.

    • vic rattlehead

      What Trump distractions? Trump distractions seem like a win for the GOP. Anytime the conversation about Trump gets mildly substantive there’s always something like “Meryl Streep criticizes Trump at golden globes!” to shift the focus.

    • Gizmo

      He’s going to impeachable on day one – conflict of interest laws, emoluments, nepotism, and so on. The republican leadership will probable enjoy having the leverage, to our detriment.

  • Orphos

    In Putin’s Russia, leaks get information? leaks get YOU? You get leaks?

    …got nothin’. All I can say is, don’t fuck with the CIA publicly maybe? Or possibly with John McCain?

    (and obviously it’s all very serious and unconfirmed, unverified things that are basically treason if true. But… Twitter was made for these moments.)

    • CrunchyFrog

      Read the linked article. This is not an intel leak. This document is a) not classified and b) has been known by members of Congress for over a month.

      But I do suspect that is was not random but was timed to be a part of a campaign to unseat Trump by fellow GOPers.

      • Manny Kant

        It must be the document David Corn wrote about at the end of October, mustn’t it?

        • Jordan

          It is that document. Buzzfeed went with it because cnn talked about it. Some of these people have had it for months, and neither buzzfeed or mother jones are CIA stooges.

  • Lasker

    I was going to ask when was the last time we had a president for whom “hired prostitutes to despoil the bed where his enemies had slept” was a plausible accusation.

    But actually ranking past presidents in order of likelihood is a pretty entertaining parlor game. Had this question been posed prior to today, I’m don’t even know that I would have put Trump at #1.

    • ΧΤΠΔ

      JFK & LBJ, definitely.

      • MyNameIsZweig

        Nixon, but he would have remained fully dressed the entire time.

      • Lasker

        LBJ wouldn’t feel the need to hire others to do the peeing.

        • jamesjhare

          He would have shit on the bed. LBJ was a bad motherfucker.

      • TopsyJane

        Why JFK? Guy seems socially and personally confident enough not to harbor the psychological need for such bizarre petty vengeance against, say, Henry Cabot Lodge (or even Hoover).

        LBJ, well, it’ possible.

    • BartletForGallifrey

      Cheney.

    • (((Malaclypse)))

      Andrew Jackson.

    • swaninabox

      Somehow I think this is yet another list of Presidents where Jimmy Carter ranks near the bottom.

      • Phil Perspective

        Somehow I think this is yet another list of Presidents where Jimmy Carter ranks near the bottom.

        Which is funny because Carter actually admitted in an interview, with Playboy IIRC, that he had the hots for one-time PMOY Patti McGuire(aka Jimmy Connors wife).

        • swaninabox

          Carter may well have lusted in his heart, but I feel if any of the Carters was going to revenge pee like a cat angry about a dirty litter box?

          It’d be Billy. And Jimmy Carter’s life is pretty much a “Don’t do what Billy does” writ large.

  • Nobdy

    Cynical view:

    If Trump had a pee fetish we would have heard about it. He would have burst in on women in the bathroom and put cameras in the little girl’s rooms for his pageants. He is not one to restrict his appetites. Ivana probably would have revealed it in her book when she was enraged at him.

    I just don’t think given everything we heard that this propensity would have been a secret.

    • Scott Lemieux

      But the (alleged and likely false!) fetish being alleged here wasn’t Trump liking to watch women pee, it was Trump getting off on watching women pee on a bed used by the Obamas.

      • Nobdy

        That is a very specific scenario but I live my life by one simple creed:

        If a fella likes to watch gals pee in one scenario he likes to watch gals pee in other situations too.

        I have hewed to that motto my whole life and it has never once steered me wrong.

        Guarantee that if you see a fella looking at a gal’s stream with prurient thoughts and he ain’t a wee sprig of a man then this ain’t his first rodeo.

        He’s got skeletons in his closet and they’re wearing Depends undergarments so the closet floor don’t get wet.

        • vic rattlehead

          Apparently he’s gonna hold a press conference? My god. I thought it was disgraceful that a sitting president actually felt compelled to say “I am not a crook.” And now this guy is gonna say, what? “I do not have a piss fetish. Yucky.”

        • dsidhe

          Remember that this fella in particular seems to be utterly horrified at the notion that women pee at all. That doesn’t say “golden shower fetish” to me, it says “What is the most disgusting thing I can think of to act out my unhinged grudge against Obama”. I could see it being a one-off.

      • DamnYankees

        That does seem like the kind of thing that has to be fake. I mean, it’s just too absurd.

        • (((Malaclypse)))

          I mean, it’s just too absurd.

          I’m not sure what 2016 was like in your timeline, but here, “too absurd” lost all meaning sometime around April.

        • postmodulator

          A hell of a lot of people you would never suspect are into a hell of a lot of crazy sex stuff you would never suspect. I, myself, a middle-aged mathematician who works in networking, spent my Saturday night [OH SO VERY REDACTED].

          • DamnYankees

            It’s not the urination that’s too absurd – it’s the idea that he did this to get back at Obama. I mean, come on.

            • (((Malaclypse)))

              Because he doesn’t hold insane grudges?

            • postmodulator

              You’re kidding, right? What, he seems too mature for that?

              • UncleEbeneezer

                Right? A guy who lived in my dorm, freshman year in college took a dump in his roomate’s clothing drawer because he didn’t like said roomate (and more specifically his roomate’s Jewish-ness.) He felt entitled enough to get away with it and from what I know he did get away with it (though he dropped out after one semester so who knows.) Anyways, he was a middle-class white boy bully from Maryland with no trust fund, 14 million dollar graduation present or team of lawyers and he still proceeded. I don’t put this frat-boy kind of behavior past Trump. Not at all. Trump has shown his White Supremacy, his crass nature and his evil hard-on for Obama (see: birtherism.) Taking delight in symbolically despoiling the first Black President is EXACTLY the kind of bullshit I would expect from him.

                • GeorgeBurnsWasRight

                  I see nothing to indicate Trump has the maturity of a college student, even a frat boy.

                  We need to look at what a small child would do, because that is where Trump is stuck mentally.

            • BartletForGallifrey

              It’s not the urination that’s too absurd – it’s the idea that he did this to get back at Obama. I mean, come on.

              He RAN FOR PRESIDENT to get back at Obama.

              • Phil Perspective

                And Jeb! too, supposedly!

            • This was after Obama had clowned on him for like ten minutes straight at the White House Correspondents’ Dinner.

              (Man, I wonder what Trump’s WHCD will look like. Probably just a mass execution.)

            • SNF

              The bit about it being a weird revenge fantasy against Obama is actually a detail that makes it seem more plausible. It’s so out of left field but also incredibly in character for Trump.

          • rhino

            +6969996669

          • My Saturday night was a flop because the goats ate the leather.

        • wengler

          Yeah a piss fetish is way too tame for Trump. Now having a female relative pee on his face would be a fine tribute to the original Fuehrer.

      • Captain Oblivious

        If y’all are finding this hard to believe (and I’m not saying it’s true), it’s because you haven’t spent enough time with sex workers.

        • SV

          Am escort, can confirm.

          He doesn’t like the idea that women use the toilet, he seems to have a paranoia of germs, I don’t think that this story implies he has a golden shower fetish (if it’s true). He would be getting off on the idea of what happened to the bed, not necessarily in the sexual sense of the phrase ‘getting off’.

          But pettily ‘defiling’ (after the fact) the bed that POTUS and FLOTUS slept in and thinking that benefits him somehow… is totally plausible. Think about his general pettiness and obsession with dominance (of various kinds).

          Now I’m thinking about how dogs piss to mark their territory… except he’s too much of a germaphobe or whatever to do it himself (again, if true).

          • Jordan

            Right, if (if!) this story is true this is almost surely the correct explanation.

        • BobBobNewhartNewhartSpecial

          you haven’t spent enough time with sex workers

          You have?

          • Nobdy

            Hey. Let’s not attack sex workers or their friends or associates here. I have personally never known anybody who I knew was a sex worker (I am led to understand there are plenty of sex workers who don’t advertise their gig to non-professional acquaintances)but I hate how they’re mistreated and looked down upon in our society. No need to perpetuate that in a fun thread making fun of Donald Trump.

            • BobBobNewhartNewhartSpecial

              I hate how they’re mistreated and looked down upon in our society

              If you truly meant this

              I have personally never known anybody who I knew was a sex worker

              Then why the need for this disclaimer?

              My “You have?” comment was just a joke, and to the extent it “looked down upon” anyone, it was looking down on the OP, not the sex workers he’s spent time with.

              • SV

                I must be missing the joke, can you explain please? Just curious.

                • BobBobNewhartNewhartSpecial

                  I must be missing the joke, can you explain please? Just curious.

                  I missed this

                  Nobdy says:

                  I believe Captain Oblivious identifies as female (based on calling herself a gal lower down in this thread) and I interpreted her comment as knowing sex workers as friends or acquaintances rather than patronizing them (though obviously women can and do hire sex workers.)

                  Not much of joke to explain, given this.

                • SV

                  You said “You have?” in reply to the Captain, and said after that it was just a joke. Sorry to be oblivious but I was wondering what was funny about the idea that CO had spent time with sex workers.

                  I hate to miss a joke! Please humour me?

                • BobBobNewhartNewhartSpecial

                  Double post? They have an edit option.

                • Jordan

                  The problem is with you SV, not bobbobwhatever. You see, based on your spelling, you are clearly not American.

              • Nobdy

                I believe Captain Oblivious identifies as female (based on calling herself a gal lower down in this thread) and I interpreted her comment as knowing sex workers as friends or acquaintances rather than patronizing them (though obviously women can and do hire sex workers.)

                As for my comment…I wanted to be truthful, but also I will admit that I would be uncomfortable if people though I patronized sex workers. While I think sex work is fine, a lot of sex workers are trafficked or coerced in other ways into the business, so I think patronizing sex workers is pretty icky unless you are absolutely 100% sure that they are doing the work of their own free will.

                A lot of (but not all) guys who are open about patronizing sex workers are pretty icky, and I don’t want to be associated with them.

                I’m also admitting to being a square, since anyone who is cool or hep is going to know a few sex workers just by osmosis.

                Anyway I’ve admitted on this forum to being something pretty debased and disgusting…a piece of shit corporate lawyer! So I have nothing to hide.

                • bender

                  It’s one of the rare fields in which women are paid more for their time than men are. Not all sex workers are physically intimate with clients. The term also applies to strippers, phone sex actors, dominatrices, etc. Some kinds of sex work can be lucrative part time gigs. A person may be or have been a sex worker, and you wouldn’t know it unless they choose to disclose it to you.

                • SV

                  Bender, there are a whole lot of different aspects and workplaces in the industry, and I haven’t had a whole lot of exposure to the male-worker side of it, but for the male-worker equivalent of my sector of the industry, it’s my understanding that male workers can charge more, or at least as much, as women.

                  And you are right about it being more common than people think. If someone has known thirty women in their life, they’ve probably known a sex worker. If you have fifteen female relatives, there’s a good chance that one of them has worked. Yep, even mum or aunty or grandmother.

          • Moondog von Superman

            Our President just told us to get out of our various bubbles and engage people in real life. So get to it!

          • dsidhe

            I have. I was a street hooker for a while starting at fifteen. And I’ll admit *I* look down on people who patronize sex workers, but that’s because the ones I knew knew they weren’t getting an adult who was doing it on an entirely voluntary basis. It’s probably different for SV and escorts in general.

            • SV

              Nah, I look down on a lot of the clients, but not for the same reason as you. Which seems entirely reasonable. In fact, ‘looking down on’ those clients seems far more than what they deserve. Uck.

          • rhino

            I have known several sex workers well enough hang out with them and hear the stories they tell each other, and believe me, this scenario wouldn’t even make the grade as a ‘that dude was so wierd’ story. This kind of thing is *basic*.

            People really have no idea just how weird and unpleasant (to most people) sexual fetishes can get even among decent and nice people. For an evil piece of shit like Trump, it could be anything.

    • Captain Oblivious

      It doesn’t have to be a fetish.

  • postmodulator

    Okay, this is not completely fake. Looking back, this jibes with the bits and pieces that have been leaking out(I wish I said something else) since June.

    • efgoldman

      I wish I said something else

      No, you don’t

      • rhino

        Nor do we wish he hadn’t.

        I’m revelling in all the predictable puns in this thread.

  • Todd

    Any truth to any of these allegations and/or truth to the FBI’s being involved in investigating the Trump team last year would make Trump’s early and loud “I don’t trust American government intelligence assessments” screeds easier to understand (but no less problematic).

  • DamnYankees

    My thoughts:

    Here’s my two thoughts

    * Obama is still President. If McCain knows it, Obama knows it. If something was actually this serious, would Obama not say something? Do something? Would he be that blase about handing over the Presidency to someone he believes is compromised or being blackmailed without doing something?\

    * If this is true (very big if), the question is who knew this before the election. Who among the GOP leadership or the intelligence services knew this. If anyone knew this, but didn’t say it because they wanted the GOP to win, that person should be publicly lambasted and have their reputation ruined. The sad truth is we can’t undo the election – even if this is 100% true and Trump is impeached or resigns or whatever, the GOP will still control the government. There’s no getting around that. But you can try to have some accountability for individuals who knew.

    These are genuine questions, by the way, I’m not trying to imply much of anything beyond the questions themselves.

    Lastly – I do kind of hope this is true. It’d be a staggering failure of our political system and our intelligence system, and would be a complete constitutional crisis. Best case scenario, we end up with President Pence or Ryan. So So on that level, you’d want this to be false, just because it’s kind of terrifying to imagine that we actually elected a foreign asset, or at the least someone who could be blackmailed. That would be a terrifying idea.

    Still seems like a better option than 4 years of Trump, though.

    • Nobdy

      Could this whole thing be a false flag to discredit future claims about Trump and Russia.

      I know I sound like a right wing conspiracy theorists but I do not know what to believe. Goddamnit.

      • wengler

        Nah. The Ham Rove technique was to leak compromising information to specific people that he could then ruin. Leak Bush’s drug use to a biographer that’s been convicted of attempted murder. Leak Bush’s National Guard story by creating false documents and then give them to a CBS news producer. This doesn’t have the hallmarks of that.

        If these went to his Republican primary opponents first, the veracity is likely determined by how much they paid for it.

      • The Great God Pan

        That was my first thought. Alt-Lefters are claiming there are obvious errors in the report, including geographical errors. This is starting to remind me of Rathergate: real info made to look false.

    • * Obama is still President. If McCain knows it, Obama knows it. If something was actually this serious, would Obama not say something? Do something? Would he be that blase about handing over the Presidency to someone he believes is compromised or being blackmailed without doing something?\

      It’s time for some game theory…

    • vic rattlehead

      I feel like McCain would say something. He always struck me as a genuine hawk and has no love lost for Russia like an old school cold warrior. I mean, I’m sure he’s all about what’s good for numero uno but if he could do something and think of himself as a hero who had the balls to stand up and do what’s right when that punkass kid Obama who beat him in 2008 didn’t…

      • CrunchyFrog

        McCain just won what is almost certainly his last re-election. He’s not fond of Trump and frankly pretty grumpy about a lot of things. If there is something that will be done look to him and Graham, however, they may be working with contacts behind the scenes.

        • jamesjhare

          If our profiles in courage are Lindsey Graham and John McCain we are truly fucked.

      • Captain Oblivious

        Yeah, I can see McCain wanting to go out the hero who saved the Republic.

        Trump’s comments about him not being a real hero because he got captured no doubt burn.

        • vic rattlehead

          I can’t believe I forgot about that. If there’s a way to fuck Trump I’m sure McCain’s working on it.

    • BobBobNewhartNewhartSpecial

      If McCain knows it, Obama knows it.

      If any Republican had known about this prior to the May 3rd Indiana primary, they would have leaked it (and maybe any time up until the actual convention). If any Democrat had known about this prior to the November 8th election, they would have leaked it. It’s almost certainly fake news. And the fact that we are actually debating it on this blog is almost certainly the point of why it was put out on the internet.

      • Amadan

        Agreed. I have no doubt that The One Stooges plays a leading role in a thrilling work of Slavic Erotic Realism in someone’s private archive, but this ain’t it.

        This is the lancing of the boil: once the story falls off the front page, there will be no way to give serious traction to the Russian connection again.

  • Dr. Ronnie James, DO

    Dikileaks.

    G’night.

    • postmodulator

      Boom! Linguistic kill shot.

      • N__B

        I’d say “mic drop” but that’s not a mic.

        • redrob

          A micturate drop?

        • benjoya

          mic drip?

  • Woodrowfan

    as someone noted on Balloon Juice, He really is a Goldwater republican!

    • The Temporary Name

      Ahhhhhhhhhhh.

    • benjoya

      ha!

  • vic rattlehead

    OT: damn guys, I’m tearing the hell up-Obama farewell speech. Eight years already…

    • q-tip

      My policy is: don’t watch any Barack/Michelle speeches post-election. Downside: mired in bitterness. Upside: clean, dry tear ducts and nostrils.

      • Joe_JP

        so no watching Malia crying while her dad speaks?

      • vic rattlehead

        I cried just thinking about it today. It’s been one of those days. I started a new job so my stress level has been through the roof and this orange Mussolini crap is not helping.

      • jamesjhare

        With you on that. I don’t need to be reminded of what we’re losing this soon. Maybe next month while I’m on vacation I’ll enjoy the dignity and class of our current president but right now I just can’t. In 10 days Trump and his coterie will invade my hometown.

  • Captain Oblivious

    I’m a where-there’s-smoke-there’s-fire kind of gal, and while nobody has yet located the ignition source, everyone needs to remember that

    (a) Trump has not released his tax returns or financial records;

    (b) Team Trump is trying to rush through confirmations without proper vetting;

    (c) Trump is appointing a bunch of shady far-right Putin-lovin’ shitheels to non-confirmed positions;

    (d) Paul Manafort;

    (e) Trump has an established history of sexual perversion and voyeurism;

    (f) As Kasparov says, Trump has attacked nearly everyone except Putin.

    That’s several trillion cubic meters of smoke, people.

    • Nobdy

      And if there had been a fire Trump knows a crew of experienced ladies who know exactly how to extinguish one…

      • N__B

        Lemuel Gulliver libel!

  • jim, some guy in iowa

    does this mean Andres Serrano will be making Donnie’s official Presidential portrait?

    • wjts

      Nicely done.

    • benjoya

      ha!

  • veleda_k

    It doesn’t seem likely that any of this is true, but I intend to enjoy it all the same.

    • Warren Terra

      This is my inclination, except that I fear unsubstantiated or even false allegations will be used to deprecate the well-proven terrible things about Trump; this claim is nonsense, so those must be, too. The Chewbacca defense, more or less.

    • Richard Gadsden

      It’s like Cameron putting his dick in a dead pig’s head in that respect.

  • kg

    R. Kelly will be performing at the inauguration.

    • swaninabox

      I was going to ask if anyone had made the inevitable R. Kelly joke yet.

      Does this count as Trump’s outreach to a black voter?

  • N__B

    I’m going to quote this song for the second time in a month…

    Golden Helmet of Mambrino
    There can be no hat like thee.
    Thou and I now, ere I die now,
    Will make golden history!

  • Tristan

    I disappeared after registration was implemented because I’m lazy but this is important: we need to popularize the use of ‘pisspig’ the way the right now uses ‘cuck’, thank you.

      • FMguru

        Jerkcity is a documentary and it records events happening in real time.

        • It never fails to amuse me that one of the original Jerkcity guys is now (under the same nym, even) a painfully sincere, thoughtful tech management blogger. Someone linked one of his blog posts in the management channel at my last job and I just started giggling uncontrollably at the thought of everyone nodding at the considerate musings of a guy I know mostly for typing “I AM STUCK IN A POO LOOP” and sundry.

          Also relevant.

    • swaninabox

      Pisspigs are perfectly nice dudes who like to pee on other dudes, mostly in a sexual way. I feel it is entirely unfair to associate them the horrible trainwreck of awful that is Trump.

      They at least only had consensual pee sessions.

  • alexceres
    • jim, some guy in iowa

      that reminded me of Larry Flynt- turns out he’s been making the same offer since last fall. I don’t think anyone ever collected the money Garry Trudeau offered to the first person who could prove W Bush actually showed up for the Texas National Guard either

  • Nick056

    I’m surprised that people think this changes anything about the inauguration or believe that impeachment is a remote possibility.

    The same dynamic from 2015 through the primaries still obtains. The GOP cannot excise Trump. It’s like trying to cut off your own head. You can do it, but you die.

    Their base is Trump’s base. There’s no difference. Never Trump is not a real thing electorally or congressionally.

    Their entire response to this will be that a) it’s untrue and b) Bill Clinton had sexual liasions with Monica Lewinsky in the Oval Office, lied about it to the American people, and remained beloved by scurrilous and hypocritical Democrats.

    As to the quid pro quo nature of the allegation, they will simply say there is no proof, and that it is an outrage to darken the inauguration of a new President by intimating that he is a foreign agent or anything but a loyal American.

    Done. Over. Out.

    • jim, some guy in iowa

      didn’t want to think up a joke, hm?

      • N__B

        Sometimes the jokes don’t flow freely.

        • Nick056

          If we let Trump pee in his bed, can he let people pee in the bathroom that matches their gender?

          Compromise! Deep down, we all want the same thing — to piss in the place that makes us feel comfortable, whether it’s the room that matches our true gender, or in the bed of a man who once insulted is.

      • Nick056

        Joke of the night is “I was wrong – ‘Trumped-up trickle down’ IS a great line.”

    • YRUasking

      You sound pretty pissed off.

      • Nick056

        I am. Not because I believe any of that, but because I feel like it’s painfully likely.

        • Nick056

          Also I’m a little slow tonight …

          • YRUasking

            It’s ok, I mean, you are right about all of this. It’s not gonna change shit.

  • Warren Terra

    Tonight’s revelation mean that in just over a week’s time we’ll be going from Moderate to Micturate in more ways than we previously knew.

  • AMK

    The most implausible part of the report is the idea that information was….flowing in both directions, with Trump giving Putin some kind of valuable intel on Russians’ activities here.

    • I dunno. The King in Yellow probably houses a lot of Russian oligarchs, their mistresses, and their worthless children in his various garish hellholes. He would actually be pretty well-positioned to discreetly report on their activity.

      • AMK

        Putin would want to know if the oligarchs were using their Western hidey-holes and business interests as fronts to conspire against him or bankroll critics of the regime–which would be a task for a Russian agent who knows these people, their language, culture, the Moscow political dynamics etc. Even if Trump has substantial business dealings with them (which the report denies) he wouldn’t know this stuff. There are lots of Americans involved with Russian oligarchs who would do a better job without the risk of indecent exposure.

        • That’s what his aides with ties to Russia are for. (There are a lot of them.)

  • random

    It really is unfair of us to keep publicly speculating on whether Donald J Trump appears in a pee fetish video.

    • Ken

      That would be “Playboy coverboy and porn video actor Donald J Trump”?

      • random

        Exactly, we don’t know for a fact that Playboy coverboy and porn video actor Donald J. Trump also appears in pee fetish videos and it would be irresponsible for us to speculate.

      • NBarnes

        “Playboy coverboy, porn video actor, and professional wrestler Donald J Trump”

  • AdamPShort

    As far as I can tell the original dossier is basically (like most intelligence dossiers) just some random person who is dishing gossip on Trump, reheating various rumors that have been swirling around for a long time.

    Now I don’t have any trouble believing a lot of what is in the report, but there doesn’t seem to be any proof (or even any reason to believe) that the main source, Source E, actually has personal knowledge of any of this stuff.

    The real question is why this is bubbling up again. At the time this stuff first started swirling around the main question was whether anyone could prove these meetings between Trump’s people and Russian intelligence actually happened. I’m guessing someone actually has come up with something along those lines, although it could be something much stupider and less substantive.

    My guess is that this is all basically bullshit. Fun bullshit, but bullshit.

  • randy khan

    It’s occurred to me that the sex/pee story is fascinating in a sick kind of way, but really the more important point is whether the Russians have financial leverage. That’s actually something that could give them power over him.

    • Ken

      On the other hand, if a sex video exists it becomes the target for every foreign intelligence service. US ones too – think of how useful it would be, come budget time.

      But maybe I’m overthinking this. If such a video exists, you don’t need to have it for leverage. You just have to persuade Trump that you have it. I don’t see him as a “publish and be damned” sort of guy.

      • MDrew

        Why, exactly, would it give so much leverage? As a result of today, everyone is pretty much prepared for the notion that there’s a video. Say it exists. It gets shown. It doesn’t get shown. Does Trump honestly strike you as the kind of dude who would do anything to make sure it’s the former?

        Honestly, in that situation, I don’t know that *I’d* really care that much. But I guess who knows.

        • econoclast

          This neglects rule #1 of human nature: people are morons. A couple of years ago an NFL player was arrested for assaulting his girlfriend in an elevator. It didn’t become a major scandal until video became public of the incident.

        • AdamPShort

          Also if you read the report it’s implied that the Russians already got what they wanted out of the hooker pee video and have destroyed or at least deemphasized it.

          There is no video of Trump paying Russian hookers to pee on Obama’s bed. Accept this now.

          The parts of the report to pay attention to are the allegations of meetings between Trumps people and Russian intelligence. Those meetings either happened or they didn’t, and if they did it could provide a rubric for Trumps opponents to investigate and eventually impeach him.

    • MDrew

      Financial – or whatever of real significance. The point being that this? If this is all there is? This is just sideshow bullshit.

      I mean, seriously. A pee fetish? A sex tape? Come on.

  • rhino

    So, just what is going to have to come out to invalidate the election.

    Is it even possible to invalidate an election?

    Because I’m seriously starting to wonder if that’s the only appropriate thing to do here. Make Obama serve another year, and have another election.

    Obviously there needs to be proof, but if the intelligence services have this proof, is there anything that could be done? How would it work?

    • random

      Only remedy gives you President Mike Pence.

    • Redwood Rhiadra

      No, it is not possible under the Constitution to invalidate a Presidential election. Once the electors votes have been counted, that’s it.

      The President can be impeached after he takes office, but overturning the election simply IS. NOT. POSSIBLE.

      • MDrew

        Thank you.

      • rhino

        It’s kind of surprising. You would think the founders understood that something like this could happen. I guess they really did think the electoral college was enough.

      • Yes, I’m so tired of people asking this middle school civics class question. The Constitution is uncharacteristically clear on this issue, and later amendments closed off most of the gaps. If anything, the remaining questions are whether any of the actual restrictions (like the natural born citizen clause) are enforceable. That would be a constitutional crisis, but this isn’t.

  • MDrew

    Now that this (but of course this isn’t necessarily everything) is out, does it not imply that Putin no longer holds this over Trump? I guess he is still supposed to hold the videos? But, I mean, if you’re Trump, do you give a shit? Wouldn’t you just find it hilarious (doing some rough accounting for Trumpian psychology, not correctly)? Now that this is out and Trump is surviving it (and he will), for Putin to still have blackmail-level shit on him, would require something on yet another level beyond this, that Trump truly couldn’t survive (psychologically, politically, whatever). Do we think that’s the situation? And what could that thing be?

    This thing is out, and if this were to be all there is, then in theory if this is what was dictating Trump’s stance toward Russia/Putin, then he’d be freed. So, if he’s still being blackmailed, there must be more. ~Or~ he wasn’t being blackmailed, there’s just some other basis for the Trump-Putin relationship/behavior.

    I guess any of that’s possible. But if the theory is that Trump’s behavior was being dictated by Putin via blackmail, and this is the material? I mean, isn’t it kind of…

    Pfffffffffff… ?

    • SNF

      Seems to me that if Putin wanted to compromise Trump, the best strategy would be tricking Trump into thinking an underage girl is 18 and getting video of Trump having sex with her.

      • mds

        And then what? Threaten to go public? Because that would lead to impeachment by Democrats, Lindsey Graham, and, I dunno, one GOP House member from an upstate NY district that voted Clinton? Because it woudl knock his support from evangelicals down from 81 percent to 80 percent? Because turn the internet and the news shows into even more of a sewage tank by swamping them with Republicans defending statutory rape as no big deal, and besides Monica Lewinsky?

        That’s the problem with any Russian leverage based on blackmail, rather than financial ties or willing service. Donald Trump told us he could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot someone, and he wouldn’t lose voters … and too many didn’t realize how literally true that was.

  • kped

    I saw this first on CNN, and the host said, without a trace of irony, that “this is unverified, so we won’t discuss or speculate on it”, and then move on. It was amazing. On one hand…YES! This is how you treat a story you have literally no information on!

    …on the other hand, FUCK YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE IN THE TV AND NEWS MEDIA! Where was this caution the last week of the election? Why aren’t they convening a partisan 6 person panel to “debate” this story for the next 7 days? Really, what changed?

  • shawn k

    Someone peed on your rug, Dude?

    • benjoya

      it really held the country together

  • benjoya

    sorry, can’t hold this in: Make America Urinate Again

  • benjoya
  • Pingback: Leaks! - Lawyers, Guns & Money : Lawyers, Guns & Money()

  • mamculuna

    So I’m reading elsewhere that this was actually a put-on posted by 4chan or something similar (TsPrudence at /pol/), who then took it to the IC who believed that it was real and took it to McCain. I’m having trouble believing this, but I’m extremely unknowledgeable and naive. Any thoughts?

    • MDrew

      You’re reading this; why, though, are you even starting to believe it, or consider doing so?

      This is not at all a “point.” This is a question.

  • GeorgeBurnsWasRight

    I find myself wondering not if the report is true or not, but what Trump will do to get revenge on it.

  • Robespierre

    Personal bet: you are all still at denial/anger/bargaining.

    Trump will be sworn in as president of the United States, will serve his four years, which will be awful but will not bring about the apocalypse, and will then run again in 2020, when he will most likely lose, if recession is timed right.

    But he is here, and here to stay.

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