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What Do Trump Advisors Think About the Civil War?

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OK, this is like shooting fish in a barrel. But still….

The Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) is planning to the restrict the display of Confederate flags by “amend[ing] our policy to make clear that Confederate flags will not be displayed from any permanently fixed flagpole in a national cemetery at any time.”

As expressed in a letter written by Roger Walters, interim undersecretary for memorial affairs, “We are aware of the concerns of those who wish to see Confederate flags removed from public venues because they are perceived by many as a symbol of racial intolerance.”

Great! But this might not fit Trumpism:

But a recent vote indicated a majority of House Republicans oppose the VA’s attempt to restrict where and when the Stars and Bars can be displayed. So does Sid Miller, the Texas Agriculture Commissioner who was recently tapped to be Donald Trump’s national co-chairman of his agriculture advisory team.

In a Facebook post published Thursday, Miller suggests the Civil War was first and foremost about protecting free speech — not slavery. He also strikes a skeptical note about whether Confederates who fought against the United States behaved treasonously.

Responding to a Washington Post column supportive of the VA’s move, Miller writes that the piece “makes my blood boil” and says the Post isn’t “entitled to… attempt to read the minds of my long-dead Confederate ancestors and determine that their actions and motivations during that awful war were treasonous.”

He also denounces “politically correct bureaucrats” pushing for the Stars and Bars to be banned.

“With all that is going on around our world and the serious threats that exist to our country and our constitiional [sic] freedoms by those who carry black flags with Arabic writing upon them, I would think that those in our national government would simply leave alone the flags marking the burial grounds of our Confederate dead,” Miller writes. “Unfortunately, I fear that is just wishful thinking on my part and highlights why the outcome of the upcoming election is so very,very important.”

Boy, I wonder how we could determine the thoughts of those who committed treason to defend slavery?

A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union

In the momentous step, which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery – the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product, which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.

Truly, no one can read the minds of long-dead Confederates.

And hey, the Civil War was actually about free speech! That’s why conservatives should totally secede from the nation if those big government PC liberals dare to criticize them. After all, saying mean things when Sarah Palin or Donald Trump say something dumb is the ultimate restriction of free speech! And this is just outstanding.

In the lead up to the aforementioned House vote on Confederate flags, a staffer for Rep. Lynn Westmoreland (R-GA) circulated an email making a case for preserving the Confederate flag that’s similar to Miller’s. The staffer, Pete Sanborn, wrote, “You know who else supports destroying history so that they can advance their own agenda? ISIL. Don’t be like ISIL. I urge you to vote NO.” He signed the email, “Yours in freedom from the PC police.”

Don’t be like ISIL, those liberals!

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  • You mean the last Civil War, or the one they’re trying to start now?

  • MAJeff

    Fuck that anti-American rag.

  • FlipYrWhig

    The staffer, Pete Sanborn, wrote, “You know who else supports destroying history so that they can advance their own agenda? ISIL. Don’t be like ISIL.

    You know who else is very proud to wave the flag of a grandiose, illegitimate, fictitious nation?

  • Colin Day

    Hey, it might have been about free speech, as in allowing the Post Office to deliver abolitionist literature in Southern states.

    Abolitionist mail

  • (((Hogan)))

    Yes, the South was all about freedom of speech.

    ETA: I too am opposed to replacing Confederate flags with ISIS flags in national cemeteries.

    • tsam

      ETA: I too am opposed to replacing Confederate flags with ISIS flags in national cemeteries.

      Well I guess you just don’t support free speech then, do ya? Hmmmph.

    • Domino

      Can’t find anything initially, but didn’t the states in rebellion outlaw abolitionist literature?

      Not to mention, you know, lynching people who were against slavery…

    • BruceJ

      Well for certain values of ISIS flags I would not be personally opposed.

      • los

        you posted first…
        (Sid Miller: serious threats that exist to our country and our constitiional [sic] freedoms by those who carry black flags with Arabic writing upon them
        According to the internet at that time, CNN mistook the crude drawings of dildos for “arabic writing”)

        What else could Sid Miller refer to?

        Shouldn’t watching and believing “CNN’s liberel lies” disqualify Sid Miller from the Trump team?

  • tsam

    “We are aware of the concerns of those who wish to see Confederate flags removed from public venues because they are perceived by many as a symbol of racial intolerance.”

    Not to mention the flag of an enemy of the USA. So symbolic of racism and an outright affront to those to died to protect this union.

    There was never an excuse to put that flag anywhere near fallen veterans or any public space in this nation.

    • Colin Day

      Do some of those public spaces contain Confederate dead?

      • tsam

        Maybe, maybe not. I don’t see how that’s relevant. Confederate States are back in the union, last I heard.

      • (((Hogan)))

        Probably. And there’s a cemetery containing German WWII dead near Bayeux. I don’t think they’re flying a Nazi flag there.

        • tsam

          I imagine there are tons of those scattered throughout Russia as well.

          • (((Hogan)))
            • bender

              There were no identified Jews in the WWII Wehrmacht, so I guess that enormous cross looming over the cemetery in the picture is okay.

              I wonder what symbols graves of Jewish vets in the WWI Wehrmacht have.

              • RobertL

                Stars of David.

                Their graves are just intermingled with the Christian German graves in the German cemeteries. Or at least they are in France where I’ve seen them.

          • runsinbackground

            Huh. I would not have expected that Russia would allow that sort of thing.

            • (((Hogan)))

              See my link right above.

              Germany will open its last big war cemetery in Russia on Saturday, marking the culmination of a huge effort to recover Wehrmacht soldiers killed on its Eastern Front in World War II.

              By the end of this year, the German war graves commission will have found and reburied a total of 800,000 soldiers in Eastern Europe and Russia since 1992, when the former Eastern bloc countries began helping Germany retrieve the remains of missing soldiers following the end of the Cold War.

      • addicted44

        Is there a more coddled bunch of losers than the Confederates?

        I honestly cannot think of another group that lost a war so terribly but continues to demand being celebrated.

        And that’s before recognizing the fact that this group was fighting a war of treason against the country it demands to be recognized and honored by.

        • tsam

          Is there a more coddled bunch of losers than the Confederates?

          I sure can’t think of one, though I assume there are lots of losers of internal wars that are still huffy about it, generations later.

          For me, it’s not about the fact that we won and they lost. It’s about slavery. Planting that flag in our national cemeteries, to me, is more or less overlooking the fact that those guys fought for slavery–even if their personal reasons for enlisting had nothing to do with it. Even if you could convince me that an individual soldier wasn’t personally fighting for that cause, he at the least knew that he was killing to defend that cause. There isn’t much of a distinction there.

          • CP

            For me, it’s not about the fact that we won and they lost. It’s about slavery. Planting that flag in our national cemeteries, to me, is more or less overlooking the fact that those guys fought for slavery–even if their personal reasons for enlisting had nothing to do with it. Even if you could convince me that an individual soldier wasn’t personally fighting for that cause, he at the least knew that he was killing to defend that cause. There isn’t much of a distinction there.

            This.

            That’s my thing when it comes to Civil War commemorations; in the abstract, I don’t necessarily have a problem with remembering that there are two sides to every war, that rebelling isn’t inherently wrong even when it’s against our government, that having been on the other and/or the losing side doesn’t necessarily mean you were wrong. Etc.

            The Confederacy just happens to be the single worst cause in the entire history of the United States with which to make that point. The fucking Whiskey Rebellion was on higher moral ground.

            Personally, I’d like to see all the “noble enemies, we should respect them” crap transferred from the other side of the Civil War onto the other side of the Indian Wars, which actually was fighting for freedom from oppression. Or maybe onto the labor insurgents from Blair Mountain. Or heck, John Brown and his abolitionists! So many anti-government rebellions in U.S. history, and the one we choose to remember is the racist slave-owners’. What a country.

          • Col Bat Guano

            The three words I most strongly associate with the Confederacy are: Treason, racism and failure. Quite the trifecta they’ve got going.

            • Mellano

              They sound a lot better under one of the usual descriptions, like “history” or “culture”.

              • (((Hogan)))

                But the greatest of these is “heritage.”

        • FlipYrWhig

          I honestly cannot think of another group that lost a war so terribly but continues to demand being celebrated.

          The Trojans?

          • wjts

            Spanish Republicans?

            • (((Hogan)))

              You bad man.

        • Steven desJardins

          Texans: “Remember the Alamo.”

          • rea

            They won the war, though

        • Bruce B.

          The Merovingians, depending on whose salons you attend.

        • bender

          I think that labeling all Confederates as traitors, as is popular on this blog, is ahistorical.

          For one thing, late in the war some of the Confederate dead were conscripts, weren’t they? so calling them traitors is a moral judgement on the level of calling Vietnam vets baby-killers.

          I got my fourth grade American history in Virginia, which meant that we spent some time on the arguments of Calhoun. I remember thinking at the time, “If you enter into a contract voluntarily, shouldn’t there be a way to get out of it eventually?” The Constitution makes no provision to allow a state to withdraw, but 1857 was only seventy years after ratification. There were a few people still alive who had been full grown when the Articles of Confederation were in effect. And United States took a plural verb. It makes sense to me that some people thought the Union was like the European Union, and if your state didn’t like the deal it was getting, it had a right to leave.

          • Heron

            That’s not what they thought at all. If they thought of it as similar to the Confederation -and why would they think that when the Constitution was explicitly negotiated as a replacement for the Articles?- or the EU, then what would be the thinking behind the Fugitive Slave law, which enforced their institution upon the rest of the Union, whether the rest of the Union agreed with it or not? What would be the thinking behind the various Compromises, which enforced slavery upon states that didn’t even exist yet, whether their future citizens would want it or not? What would be the thinking behind the various attempts to pass laws suppressing abolitionist literature? Why the concern over parity in the National Legislature, and control of the Senate, if they really thought they were in a loose association with no real Federal Authority? Of course they knew the Union was something stronger.

            And if Treason wasn’t their explicit and direct goal, then how do you explain the proxy wars before the war that was Bleeding Kansas and the butchery in Missouri? Do you really think they thought it was legal to hire mercenaries to kill fellow US citizens living in a US territory over their political and moral beliefs? To burn US towns to the ground? How do you explain the northern slave trade; the practice of kidnapping black US citizens from the North to sell them into slavery in the south? Do you honestly think they didn’t think that was illegal and a violation of the most fundamental principles of the Union, it’s Constitution, and the Nation? How could they have possibly thought firing on Fort Sumter, without provocation and without cause, was anything but treason, and an act of War?

            As to them not being able to leave the Union, that’s simple from a theoretical standpoint. When you enter into a contract, particularly one of incorporation like the Constitution and later Accession treaties, you cease to be a single entity and you become part of a corporate one. You can’t leave just because you want to; your partners have to agree to let you leave. Similarly, you agree to abide by the rules the Corporation sets, to practice your autonomy within the limits it draws, to settle disputes through the institutions and tools it establishes. The confederates not only did none of this, they didn’t even attempt to. They threw a fit at the very idea that Lincoln could be allowed to run for President, refused to participate in the relevant election, ensured he’d be elected by doing so, then immediately broke their contract and declared war upon the very partners they had spurned so recklessly without the slightest provocation. This can hardly be considered fair dealing, or an honest mistake.

            • rea

              In fact, as Lincoln pointed out, the Articles of Confederation were expressly called, “Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union,” which is a clue.

          • marijane

            The problem with allowing secession is that it renders democracy meaningless if you can take your ball and leave whenever an election has results you don’t like.

            http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/11/17/lincolns-sound-bite-have-faith-in-democracy

            The warning Lincoln issues is his admission that the Civil War was testing whether or not democracies are inherently unstable — “whether that nation, or any nation so conceived, and so dedicated, can long endure.” Today, many take democracy for granted as the endpoint of political development. But it did not look that way in 1863. The French Revolution, which promised to be the American Revolution’s beachhead in Europe, swiftly circled downward in the Reign of Terror and then the tyranny of Bonaparte; democratic uprisings in Spain in 1820, in Russia in 1825, in France in 1830 and across Europe in 1848 were crushed by newly renascent monarchies or subverted by Romantic philosophers, glorying in regimes built on blood, soil and nationality rather than the Rights of Man.

            The outbreak of the American Civil War only gave the monarchs further reason to rejoice. The survival of the American democracy had been a thorn in their royal sides, unsettling their downtrodden peoples with dreams of self-government. That this same troublesome democracy would, in 1861, obligingly proceed to blow its own political brains out — and do it in defense of the virtues of human slavery — gave the monarchs no end of delight.

      • Mudge

        My g-g-grandfather was a Confederate soldier from Georgia. He died in the Camp Chase OH Union prison camp and is buried in a US cemetery in Columbus along with hundreds of other Confederate soldiers. My son went to Ohio State, so I visited the grave during a visit, as it happens on Memorial Day in 2001 (if I remember correctly.) Every grave (all Confederates, mind you) had a US flag on it. There was nary a Confederate flag to be seen. I was surprised by the irony, but of course it was exactly as it should have been then and should be now. No stars and bars.

        • Brad Nailer

          Not to mention that Lincoln never recognized the secession in the first place. In his mind, the the Confederates were always Americans.

    • cpinva

      “We are aware of the concerns of those who wish to see Confederate flags removed from public venues because they are perceived by many as a symbol of racial intolerance.”

      there, fixed that for him. no need to let him know I did this, always glad to help out in a pinch,

  • dmsilev

    I’m sure there’s at least a subset whose first thought would be that Iron Man totally should have stomped all over Captain America.

    • Dr. Waffle

      Iron Man was right!

      • tsam

        Ultron did nothing wrong!

        • N__B

          Ultron was just saying what we all know to be true.

          • tsam

            AND HE WAS MURDERED BY PC SJWS

    • kped

      If you are talking “Civil War”, Iron Man was of course correct that superheroes should have to answer for their actions, and it’s silly to think otherwise, especially in light of all the problems with civil servants, be they police or otherwise, abusing their power even when they are checked by government.

      Of course, in the comic world it’s a little dicier given the history of the mutant registration act…but still, on the whole, Iron Man was in the right here. It’s like the iconic line from “The Watchmen” “Who watches the watchmen?”

      • CP

        This.

        There was something more than a little off-key about the whole plotline. There was clearly some kind of attempt to turn it into a commentary on the Bush administration, with the whole “freedom versus security” theme and Tony Stark running his own Guantanamo, not to mention the traditional politics of Tony and Steve.

        Only problem is, when your story is “the government is trying to pass a law that would actually create accountability and chain of command for superheroes,” you’re not talking about fascism, you’re talking about Internal Affairs departments. And when you argue that it’s wrong for the self-appointed supercops of the Marvel Universe to have such a thing, you’re making an argument for the out-of-control security state, not against it.

        • Morat

          One of the basic flaws was that Marvel never decided what the law actually said, so some writers wrote it as a sensible plan, and some writers wrote it as a major step towards a fascist police state. I mean, they assault Luke Cage’s apartment one minute after the law goes into effect. Hell, SHIELD tried to take out Cap before the law was even voted on!

          And because they’d spent decades of the X-Men framing “superhuman registration” as step one of “death camps for mutants”, the X-Men mostly have to hide away at Xavier’s so they can’t argue for their side.

          It didn’t help making Iron Man the head of the pro-registration side, because of course he made a murderous robot clone of Thor along with his secret prison. And he’s perfectly down with mind controlling dissenters and sending mass murderers like Bullseye out to crush the opposition. For all his talk about accountability, he doesn’t face any consequences for his evil Thor clone murdering Goliath. He even tells Spidey it was how any cop would act. Which, well, Goliath *was* black…

          And on the other hand, you have Captain America. Who has rebelled against the government several times, and, key point, has always been right. But he’s wrong this time because he doesn’t know what MySpace is and he thinks we didn’t need to turn into a police state to win WW2.

          Conceivably, a non-stupid story about registering superheroes could have been written. But probably not by Marvel.

          • (((Hogan)))

            Definitely not by Mark Millar.

  • rewenzo

    Responding to a Washington Post column supportive of the VA’s move, Miller writes that the piece “makes my blood boil” and says the Post isn’t “entitled to… attempt to read the minds of my long-dead Confederate ancestors and determine that their actions and motivations during that awful war were treasonous.”

    The beauty of this is, we don’t have to read their minds to determine if their actions were treasonous. They took up arms against the government of the United States and set up an alternative government on sovereign US soil, which they supported with arms, again, against the government of the United States.

    They could have been doing this for the most wonderful reason in the world. It would still, objectively speaking, be treason.

    • Derelict

      The Bundy Bunch would bet to differ.

      • Colin Day

        At what odds?

      • cpinva

        “The Bundy Bunch would bet to differ.”

        I hope they video it, when they go up against an Abrams M1A1 tank. that’ll be some mighty fine entertainment.

        • BruceJ

          Albeit way too short…

        • (((Hogan)))

          “Some factual information for you. Have you any idea how much damage that bulldozer would suffer if I just let it roll straight over you?”

          “How much?” said Arthur.

          “None at all,” said Mr. Prosser.

        • N__B

          Artist’s rendering.

  • JustRuss

    Miller suggests the Civil War was first and foremost about protecting free speech — not slavery.

    Okaaaaay…..so they seceded to defend their freedom of speech, which was being threatened by the federal government of the United States of America, whose president at that time was…..Abraham Lincoln. So the Party of Lincoln is claiming Lincoln’s tyranny caused the Civil War?

    • John F

      Yes, you seem perplexed by this.

      • cpinva

        well, it is kind of amazing that they don’t actually strangle themselves, given the knots they have to twist themselves into.

        • los

          So the Party of Lincoln really is the KKK Democratic Party!!!
          It is all so clear now…

          • Woodrowfan

            You can’t spell Lincoln without a KKK! Well, OK, you can, but “Lincoln” does have a hard-c sound right there in the middle.

    • CP

      The fact that the national narrative we eventually agreed on after the Civil War tries to lionize both Lincoln and the Confederacy is one of the many things I find ridiculous about it.

      Of course, it’s still alive in the GOP today, which has embraced not only the ideology but even the symbols of the Confederacy while continuing to insist that it’s “the party of Lincoln.”

      • los

        Out there on the twitterings, there’s probably an altcuck dank meme containing a **genuine Center for Medical Progress verified** photo of Hillary Clinton smooching Abraham Lincoln wearing a green belt KKK martial arts toga.

      • Matt McIrvin

        Very strange things happened to American popular culture in the period from the Haymarket riot through World War I. Things we are still paying for today.

        One of them was this re-mythologization of the Civil War as an unfortunate misunderstanding between valiant brothers, with great heroism on both sides. That it happened at the same time that the Jim Crow regime was being constructed in the South and the lynching of blacks was increasing is probably not a coincidence.

    • skate

      Buchanan was president when SC, MI, FL, AL, GA, LA, and TX seceded.

      • Linnaeus

        I’m pretty sure Michigan didn’t secede.

        • skate

          Remembering the state codes that start with M is such a pain.

          • Linnaeus

            I know. “MS” just doesn’t seem right…

            • los

              mega slavery

              • los

                ulp, I meant “mega free speech”
                please accept my infinite apologies for my unforgivable crime of political correctness.

                and keep on running ’em down, bro.

                /s!

        • GeorgeBurnsWasRight

          Given the actions of their current governor, I guess it’s not impossible that MI may yet secede.

          • los

            secede or swim?

  • Derelict

    “Isn’t it bad enough that political correctness took away my right to buy, sell, and own other human beings? Now, the PC police want to take away the symbol of my desires, the emblem of my hatred? What more sacrifices can those liberals demand of me? They’ve made it so I can’t even use racial slurs without having people sidle away from me!”

    • los

      and what was the point of freeing those slaves if we can’t Run Them Down?
      The union liberally aggressing Partiers of Lincoln aren’t very sporting.

      /s!!

  • Dr. Waffle

    So. Much. Economic. Anxiety.

    • petesh

      +27%

    • kped

      Shhhh, you are being condescending!

      • Col Bat Guano

        I think he’s delegitimizing their particularistic attachments.

    • Jackov

      Right.

      Whites in the upper third of income vote Republican
      up to 20 points higher than whites in the lower third.

      Among whites without a college degree, those with less income
      are more likely to support Democratic presidential candidates.

      • Steve LaBonne

        Except, as I understand it, in the South. Wait a minute, is it possible there’s some connection there with the topic of the post? I shall have to ponder that at length and see if I can figure it out.

        • Jackov

          The gap between lower and upper income whites applies to the South as well though it is smaller and support for Democratic candidates is ~10 points lower
          across all income levels.

          According to Hersh and Nall, the rural South shows the strongest relationship between income and partisan support in the country, in part, because affluent whites in those areas are much more likely to support Republicans

    • los

      So. Much. Economic. Anxiety.
      So. Few. Slaves.

  • David Allan Poe

    I’m actually impressed. All those years growing up in the South, I never heard that one.

    How long before we can blame Islamic extremism for the War Between the States?

    • Peterr

      First they inflicted algebra, the binomial theorem, and trigonometry on the world, and then the War Between the States to add insult to injury?

      /Bubba the Mathphobe

  • Wapiti

    What Do Trump Advisors Think About the Civil War?

    Crazy racist, misogynistic, or otherwise bigoted bullshit, the same things they think about every topic.

    • “What Do Trump Advisors Think About the Civil War?”

      Hillary started it, Trump ended it, and the blacks will thank him for it.

      • tsam

        Ha! Nice

  • Casey

    So this chucklehead thinks the Party of Lincoln, his own party, was founded by a politically correct SJW? That’s a pretty serious own-goal right there.

    • los

      own-goal

      … causing huge economic anxiety amongst private enterprise comedians trying to compete against “free stuff”… there’s no wonder that there are no intentionally funny conservatives.

  • wjts

    Truly, no one can read the minds of long-dead Confederates.

    I guess I can agree up to the point that members of the Confederate rank-and-file (like the rank-and-file of every other army ever) enlisted for a variety of reasons from being unambiguously pro-slavery to peer pressure to dreams of military glory to wanting to see something of the world beyond Possum Holler (human beings being what they are, I can’t say I’d be shocked to learn that at least one person enlisted in the Confederate army because they wanted to end slavery). That doesn’t mean the war was really about peer pressure or that Confederate flags have any place in national cemeteries.

    • Cheerful

      Mark Twain wrote a short story about his brief enlistment in the rebel cause which lasted up to the point that his rag tag group of volunteer militia actually shot someone, at which point he decided this war was not for him and took off for other places. (according to the story, I don’t know how autobiographical it was).

      I can forgive young men making stupid decisions in the heat of the social pressure/desire for glory that surrounds them. I can’t forgive older people justifying the stupidity after having, oh, 150 years to think it over.

    • Randy

      I guess I can agree up to the point that members of the Confederate rank-and-file (like the rank-and-file of every other army ever) enlisted for a variety of reasons . . .

      There was a draft that eventually applied to all white men between 17 and 50. If you owned 20 or more slaves, you were exempt.

      • Linnaeus

        One reason back-country areas of the South had less enthusiasm for secession and war.

      • veleda_k

        19th century Job Creators.

      • Sev

        A man who owned 20 slaves was clearly already doing hos share to defend slavery. As well as being, you know, a job creator.

  • Warren Terra

    Off topic (though still in the Trumposphere), there’s Ted Cruz, a gin-scented tear rolling down his nose, afire with the realization that he has finally won the battle with himself and come to love Big Daddy.

    • (((Hogan)))

      mmmmm Victory gin

    • N__B

      In room 101, rats are threatened with having to be near Ted Cruz.

      • Warren Terra

        In the days preceding Cruz’s announcements, people in Room 102 could hear through the wall: “Do it to Heidi and my father! Do it to Heidi and my father!”

    • The long-hoped-for bullet was entering his brain…He had won the victory over himself. He loved Donald Trump.

    • tsam

      Poor Teddy. He writes the book on a being a petulant, obstinate piece of shit, and along comes this dilettante with ridiculous hair and schools his ass.

      • los

        the east coast dilettante who upped the insanity ante…

    • Johnny sycophant

      Ted Cruz had one (1) seemingly positive trait, now he’s plucked it out and pissed on it. The true believers at Red State are dismayed, their man of principle has turned out to have none…

      • tsam

        He has no principles?? DID NOT SEE THAT COMING

  • Here in Louisiana , the state has been un-losing the Wahr since I was a baby boy 60 yrs ago. If the GOP/KKK gets it’s way all of us will be picking their cotton.

  • Folks in Georgia and Texas* still unironically refer to the Civil War as “The War of Northern Aggression,” so none of this is exactly news. I will grant that it is depressing, however.

    *I’m sure that is it all over the old Confederacy, but I’ve heard it first-hand in those two states.

    • bluejohnnyd

      I can attest to it being common among an older generation in parts of Virginia. Seems to be less popular with us young’ns though.

    • Steve LaBonne

      If you really want to piss one of them off, ask how many wars of aggression have involved the aggressee firing the first shot.

  • D.N. Nation

    You know who else supports destroying history so that they can advance their own agenda?

    Wingnuts.

  • In a Facebook post published Thursday, Miller suggests the Civil War was first and foremost about protecting free speech — not slavery.

    Post isn’t “entitled to… attempt to read the minds of my long-dead Confederate ancestors and determine that their actions and motivations during that awful war were treasonous.”

    Well, which is it young fella? You want I should freeze or get down on the ground? Mean to say, iffen I freeze, I can’t rightly drop. And iffen I drop, I’m a gonna be in motion.

    • Lost Left Coaster

      Mind-reading for me, but not for thee.

      • los

        or (((sid miller))) is the (mind reading) undead

    • Colin Day

      Your long-dead Confederate ancestors waged war against this nation. No mind reading is necessary.

  • Matt McKeon

    There are some Confederate dead buried in United States Cemeteries, including Gettysburg. The President has for a long time sent an annual wreath to the monument to the Confederate dead at Arlington. No flags though.

    The Confederate flag has been the modern white nationalist symbol at least since the civil rights movement. Dylann Roof posed with one proudly, fondling his gun with his other hand and stomping on the US flag. South Carolina actually took down the Confederate flag they had at the State Capitol building after the killing in Charleston. The flag there had first been put up in the 1960s during the massive resistance to integration.

    • cpinva

      “The President has for a long time sent an annual wreath to the monument to the Confederate dead at Arlington.”

      this should be immediately stopped. any confederate dead buried in a national cemetery should be exhumed, and any known descendents given the opportunity to retrieve the body, and re-bury it elsewhere, at their expense. I was not aware of this, and I was at Gettysburg last summer, and don’t recall it being mentioned by any of the park rangers or other personell. it’s an insult to the patriots in blue, who gave their all that the union might stay whole.

      • Ahenobarbus

        any confederate dead buried in a national cemetery should be exhumed, and any known descendents given the opportunity to retrieve the body, and re-bury it elsewhere, at their expense.

        I would not agree with this. It’s a hell of a thing to exhume the dead (and charge ancestors to re-bury them). As mentioned above, most of them weren’t leaders.

        I would be curious as to how many of the patriots who wore blue at Gettysburg would agree with you about it being an insult.

      • twbb

        Yes, let’s punish the descendants of people who committed crime. What could possibly go wrong with re-instituting corruption of blood.

      • Wapiti

        I’d amend the suggestion: anyone who is offended that their dear ancestor isn’t being honored with Confederate (:hawk: :spit:) flags should be allowed to have their ancestor removed and buried elsewhere, at their expense. I’d think that all descendants should have to agree, though.

    • Randy

      The flag there had first been put up in the 1960s during the massive resistance to integration.

      Exactly. For the first 90+ years after the war, nothing. It’s been a symbol of Southern Pride and Heritage only since that damn federal gummint started interfering.

  • Tyto

    While placing flags at the L.A. National Cemetery, we saw the graves of several Union dead. I wonder how they would feel about the Confederate flag flying over them. But I guess we couldn’t possibly ever divine that.

    Also, were or are Confederate dead even entitled to burial in a national cemetery? If not, why is whether to fly that flag in a national cemetery even a question?

    ETA: Or, I could have read Matt’s post above regarding that last point.

    • cpinva

      “Also, were or are Confederate dead even entitled to burial in a national cemetery?”

      they damn well shouldn’t be, they were traitors. their remains shouldn’t be dumped in a landfill, but they have no business being buried alongside actual patriots, who gave their lives for the Union cause. this seriously pisses me off, especially since a year ago, we interred my father in the columbarium at Arlington. he’d be pretty pissed off, to find out he was in with a bunch of confederate traitors. he was a combat veteran of Korea, born & raised in NYC, and had absolutely zero use for the confederacy and its idiot heirs and devises.

      • Matt McKeon

        I was unclear. The Confederate dead at Gettysburg, and I assume at other battlefields were killed in the fighting. Most of them are unknown and many in mass graves.

        National Cemeteries are reserved for the United States dead, although there is a big Confederate monument at Arlington.

        • Matt McKeon

          According to Wikipedia, there are 250 odd Confederate dead at Arlington, mostly POWs. The Confederate section was created in 1899, after the Spanish American War, with McKinley’s approval.

  • Calming Influence

    Mississippi’s argument for slavery is awesome:

    The crops we grow are tropical.
    Only the black race can work in a tropical environment.
    Therefore:
    We should be allowed to own members of the black race.

  • piratedan

    don’t know why this is so hard for them…

    What country do we live in?

    That’s the country whose flag should fly in our national cemeteries then.

    • Steve LaBonne

      What country do we live in?

      Years ago I lived in Jackson, MS for a while, and I had the distinct impression that the answer to that question is a good deal less obvious to a lot of white Mississippians than one might hope.

      • tsam

        Well, only DERP is obvious there

  • mbxxxxxx

    The Confederate battle flag, so beloved of the racists, is not the Stars and Bars. Conflating the two is a pet peeve of mine.

  • YosemiteSemite

    In 1861, Texas weighed in:

    DECLARATION OF CAUSES, February 2, 1861
    A declaration of the causes which impel the State of Texas to secede from the Federal Union

    That in this free government all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding States.

    • Donalbain

      You have to hand it to Texas. It takes a very special group of people to start two wars in a lifetime because someone wants to take away your slaves.

  • Kubricks Rube

    “Miller suggests the Civil War was first and foremost about protecting free speech ”

    I have a sneaking suspicion that… To the google… Bingo:

    Texas Agriculture Commissioner Sid Miller posted on Facebook last Friday that he would boycott the NFL and not watch any games until the league requires players stand for the national anthem.

    • los

      yeah, but if NFL games were actual wars, then the NFL would be free speech.
      /sid miller

  • los

    Sid Miller, the Texas Agriculture Commissioner who was recently tapped to be Donald Trump’s national co-chairman of his agriculture advisory team.
    Steve Bannon: “Proven psycho. Bring him onto our team!”

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