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There’s No Mystery Here

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  • Steamboat Bill

    Just brilliant.

    • GFW

      Brilliant use of whitespace?

      Yeah, I know there’s supposed to be some tweets there, but they aren’t showing. Perhaps someone could give a direct link?

  • n00chness

    There are a wide variety of reasons why someone might vote for Trump.

    The persons who are the subject of this Tweetstorm are aptly referred to as the “Deplorables.” They are just kind of, well, deplorable. Their logic is basically party before country, and other countries before the other party, mixed with a healthy dose of racism and misogyny.

    What some of us are curious to see is whether the non-Deplorables might turn on Trump. Granted, this is perhaps only about a quarter to a third of his vote by my reckoning.

    • John F

      Evangelicals would turn on him instantly IF he nominated a pro-choice justice, or if he vetoed an abortion ban. Do you see either happening?

      A 2016 Trump voter who voted for Obama in 2012 and Dubya in 2004 would vote for the Dem in 2020 if that voter gets laid off/fired sometime over the next three years, or loses his health insurance and then gets sick.

      For most people, since Trump- Twitter outbursts aside- is gonna govern like a bog standard Republican, Trump is gonna be “normalized” – if the economy nosedives he’s gonna get blamed, if it does well he’s gonna get the credit.

      I think that most of the alleged Obama/Trump voters are in fact Dubya/Obama/Trump voters. They are dissatisfied with how their lives are going, that’s why they voted Dubya, and switched to Obama and switched to Trump, and they’ll still be dissatisfied in 2020 and will vote for the Dem.

      The ones who voted for Trump because his white nationalism gave them a woodie? They’ll vote for him in 2020 even after he’s lost a war with China, and unemployment is at 25%. Phuck them.

      • Spider-Dan

        Evangelicals didn’t turn on him after he defended Planned Parenthood in the primary, so I think you’re presuming facts not in evidence.

        I think your mistake is that you are presuming that evangelicals (or other Trump voters) have some sort of moral red line that Trump may not cross. Again, based on the general election, facts not in evidence.

        If, with one stroke of the pen, Trump vetoed an (unconstitutional) abortion ban and simultaneously enacted an (unconstitutional) order decreeing that babies of The Illegals are not citizens, evangelicals would throw a parade.

    • searcher

      See, while people who put party before country are deplorable, I’m not sure I’d really call them THE Deplorables.

      The worst of the worst – and a depressingly large bloc they are – aren’t voting Republican out of simple tribalism. They’re voting Republican because they LIKE the Republican vision of the future. The LIKE a future where America’s borders are closed, especially to those pesky Muslims and Mexicans, and ideally to everyone. They LIKE the idea of bombing the crap out of Syria, Iran, North Korea, China, and probably France. They don’t mind a little nuclear saber rattling, and maybe a little past that. It’s not like the return missiles are targeted at Wasilla, AK or Bumfuck, AL. They LIKE the idea of women in their “proper place”, denied abortion, birth control and even basic goddamn healthcare. They WANT to roll back civil rights to the 1850s. The poorest white man can always look down his nose on the richest black man; the married conservative woman can always look down on the single women.

      The Basket of Deplorables doesn’t vote Republican despite the party’s goals; they vote because of them.

      • brendalu

        The worst of the worst – and a depressingly large bloc they are – aren’t voting Republican out of simple tribalism. They’re voting Republican because they LIKE the Republican vision of the future. The LIKE a future where America’s borders are closed, especially to those pesky Muslims and Mexicans, and ideally to everyone. They LIKE the idea of bombing the crap out of Syria, Iran, North Korea, China, and probably France. They don’t mind a little nuclear saber rattling, and maybe a little past that. It’s not like the return missiles are targeted at Wasilla, AK or Bumfuck, AL. They LIKE the idea of women in their “proper place”, denied abortion, birth control and even basic goddamn healthcare. They WANT to roll back civil rights to the 1850s. The poorest white man can always look down his nose on the richest black man; the married conservative woman can always look down on the single women.

        And the rest of them? Made some awkward noises but decided that in the end they’re fine with all that.

  • c u n d gulag

    Post W. Bush Republicans:
    ‘Well, at least we created a diversion in the Tea Party, and that kept us going for a whole bunch of years.
    Otherwise, after the mess Dumbaya and Dick made, we might be dead as a party.”

    New t-RUMP Republicans:
    “Hold our beers, and watch while we do this!”

  • jamesepowell

    Exactly. Note: “coastal elites” includes smart-ass brothers in law and that woman they promoted at work.

    The Trump voters who we never read about are the college educated suburban and ex-urban whites and their “I got mine, fuck you” political philosophy. These are the voters who do not care about anything but their own incomes, wealthy, and social status.

    ETA – I do not think reporters are writing these stories in search of regrets or apologies. I believe they are on a mission to redeem these ignorant bigots in the eyes of the public. We just watched them go all in for an openly racist misogynist candidate. The national narrative writers at the NYT and elsewhere insist that the voters are good hearted and wise, the best people ever. This apparent inconsistency has to be resolved in favor of the ignorant bigots. Thus, it’s all Hillary fault, or Democrats who don’t care about them, or whatever bullshit theory of the month they are selling.

    Forget it. They are ignorant bigots who voted for an ignorant bigot. They can’t wait to do it again.

    • n00chness

      They will keep doing it until they get resoundingly out-voted.

      The obviousness of this is why I am virtually certain that Cornell West will endorse the 2020 Democrat even if it were Joe Lieberman.

      • ForkyMcSpoon

        I dunno about West, but Susan Sarandon supported Nader in 2000, and then realized, oh right, Republicans are fucking awful during Bush, and endorsed Kerry and Obama 08. This, of course, despite both of them running on platforms to the right of Obama 12 and Clinton 16, which she couldn’t bear to endorse.

        Once Democrats were back in power, she could “afford” to promote pointless vanity candidates again. I suspect that she and others like her will learn, yet again, that the GOP must be defeated for 2020.

        The consumerist purity voters just can’t stand the notion that you have to be responsible every election. Hence the complaints about the Supreme Court being “BLACKMAIL!!!” because, of course, that implies that you never get to put your fee-fees first, you have to do the boring responsible thing every time :'(

        • efgoldman

          Susan Sarandon supported Nader in 2000, and then realized, oh right, Republicans are fucking awful

          Who cares? Did she move a dozen votes, in any election including last year? Do the sainted WWC know or care what she bleats? Why should we?

          • ForkyMcSpoon

            Well, she’s just an example of that type of pattern.

            The 3rd party vote totals from 2000 to 2004 and 2008 suggest that quite a lot of people followed the same path.

            There were a lot of Black Lives Matter activists who were saying they wouldn’t endorse, they don’t like either, they won’t vote, it doesn’t matter who wins… I suspect that they will change their minds about a lot of that by 2020 as well, even if the candidate isn’t radically different from Clinton.

    • John F

      The Trump voters who we never read about are the college educated suburban and ex-urban whites and their “I got mine, fuck you” political philosophy.

      That describes my Congressional District and most of my county (which has a Republican County Exec)- and yet my district went 2:1 for HRC over Trump.

      You don’t hear about “college educated suburban and ex-urban whites” as a Trump bloc because by and large that group supported Trump a bit less than they supported Romney.

      Groups Trump did better than Romney, HRC worse than Obama:

      White MEN without college degrees
      Black MEN
      Hispanic MEN

      • NBarnes

        I really think that misogyny doesn’t get the credit it deserves for Trump’s victory. Race, yeah, yeah, but Trump’s voters aren’t any less misogynistic than they are racist, and the misogyny is more predictive.

        • jamesepowell

          I have doubt that it was decisive.

        • n00chness

          Misogyny was a huge factor. My dad (~64 yo white male, MBA) has been a pretty consistent Democratic voter over the last 20 years even though he voted for Reagan. Couldn’t get around to voting for Hillary though – “I can’t stand the sound of her voice,” he told me, in the beginning of the campaign. By the end of the campaign he was in full conspiracy mode, an enthusiastic Trump backer. Swears he would have voted for Bernie though.

          All that it would take is about 20,000 of those extremely voice-sensitive middle-aged white men to flip the election to Trump in a state like Pennsylvania.

          • Anna in PDX

            That’s actually a reason I can’t stand Trump (the sound of his voice). (I guess I am bigoted against men, at least those that talk like the old guy at the end of the bar. But seriously I cannot stand to hear him talk, it’s like nails on a chalkboard.)

            Hillary sounds fine. Why do people get irritated by her voice? It’s a nice voice. And they DON’T get irritated by Trump? I just cannot understand them.

            • bender

              I’m irritated by the sound of her voice, not always, but when she sounds condescending, which is often. It’s her delivery rather than the tonal qualities of her voice that irritate me.

              It didn’t stop me from voting for her. John Kerry’s voice irritates me too. He sounds like Foghorn Leghorn. If he had become President, I would not have listened to his speeches.

              • weirdnoise

                Go figure. I find Trump’s voice infinitely condescending, while Hillary is, at worst, professorial in tone.

            • DAS

              For a long time, speaking in a folksy, well modulated voice seemed to be a necessary qualification for winning the Presidency. And many Democrats, most definitely Hillary Clinton, absolutely did not have a folksy manner or a well modulated voice: they tended to shout in a metronomic near monotone but with their pitch slightly rising then dropping (with just a tad of ritardando) at the end of thoughts for emphasis. It really was grating and I think really hurt the Democrats.

              But to make a complaint about Hillary Clinton’s voice in 2016? Although at times she reverted to her old speaking patterns, by and large she clearly had mastered modulating her voice and varying her speaking rhythm in a folksy style. And you know what? All those same people who would never have voted for a candidate unless s/he had a well modulated voice and/or folksy way of speaking (hence they voted for GWB over Gore/Kerry, and perhaps even Obama over McCain/Romney), suddenly subconciously decided speaking voice didn’t matter and voted for shouty Donald Trump.

              Part of it may be the persistence of memes: HRC has a grating voice is stuck in people’s heads. But certainly a large part of people complaining about HRC’s voice being grating (in 2016) is mysogyny.

            • lmontheinternet

              It’s not Trump’s voice that bothers me the most, it’s his (lack of) vocabulary. There’s a language that I’m learning that I don’t speak very well… and I suspect I speak it better than Trump speaks English.

        • Karen24

          So VERY much this. Misogyny fueled the BernieBros and it fueled the Trumpenproles much more than racism ever did. Women have been far too forgiving of the men who should have supported HRC but didn’t because Reasons, all of which boil down to she’s a girl with icky disgusting girl cooties.

          • n00chness

            Not just men, but women too – my mother-in-law thinks Pence is very “Presidential” even though I don’t think she really knows very much about him.

            • ForkyMcSpoon

              I think Mike Pence looks creepy. It’s like some uncanny valley thing or something.

              Roger Stone has a similar look to him. But Stone is far creepier.

              • Linnaeus

                It’s like Pence is Evil Race Bannon.

              • Snuff curry

                Pence looks like the last human body, the one wanting to be POTUS, the baddie alien slug occupied in The Hidden. I keep waiting for him to do the little tongue thing.

    • Jackson87

      Could it be that reporters are interviewing the people that they are comfortable interviewing? Maybe they don’t want to go into the scary urban areas and interview scary minority peeps.

      • Zagarna_84

        Or, it could be that they are interviewing the people who make for an interesting story. Somebody pointed out below that “Republican voted for Republican, still likes Republican” is not interesting. Replace “Republican” with “Democrat” and that’s equally true.

        I don’t disagree that implicit bias plays some role here; I’m just unconvinced that it’s a particularly large role. Keep in mind that many chattering-class-types find weird rural white people scary, too.

    • efgoldman

      The Trump voters who we never read about are the college educated suburban and ex-urban whites and their “I got mine, fuck you” political philosophy.

      They have always pulled the (R) lever, so it would be a dog bites man / water is wet story. Totally unremarkable.

      I do not think reporters are writing these stories in search of regrets or apologies. I believe they are on a mission to redeem these ignorant bigots in the eyes of the public.

      I said in the earlier thread that these bullshit stories, particularly the NYT ones, are examining the mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging, racist flying monkeys the same way my granddaughter looks at a butterfly or frog or hamster: as a previously unknown species to be examined as a curiosity.

      • DAS

        They may have always pulled the R lever when they voted in the past, but ostensibly many of them would have been offended by a candidate as crude as Trump, yet many of them enthusiastically supported Trump.

        Also, in my nabe, we had a lot of people who generally don’t vote who came out to vote for Trump. I know some poll workers in my nabe. The ballots that were rejected by the scanner were uniformly clearly Trump votes, but the first time voters casting them were unclear about how to fill in the bubble.

    • Tancred

      I wish we would read more about the college educated suburban and ex-urban whites who voted for Trump because I think this would dispel the notion that all of Trump’s voters were poor, racist rednecks.

      Clinton made the mistake of thinking she could win over enough of these suburban Republicans to offset losses among the white working class but she or her staffers failed to realize that this group of voters will never vote for the Democrats in large enough numbers as long as the Dems are seen as the party of working people. The Democrats would have to give up any pretense of being for the “little guy” and just become a socially liberal version of the Republicans, something that I think many people would like to see, unfortunately.

      I know a few people who were reluctant Trump voters. They would have preferred a more conventional GOP candidate. But at the end of the day they voted for Trump because he promised to lower their taxes. In my opinion these people are even worse than the ones who were duped into thinking Trump was going to bring all the factory jobs back. At least the latter can be understood as operating out of desperation. But I have no time for people who knew Trump was bad but still voted for him just to lower their taxes. They are not desperate, they are doing well but just want more of the pie for themselves and less for the poor and working class.

  • Ahuitzotl

    twitter: what you do instead of communicating

    • Gregor Sansa

      LGM has existed for 13 years. I would give high odds that this post will bit-rot — become unreadable in practice — in less than 13 years, in ways that will be harder to fix than the (admirable) work done getting the LGM archive to the current format.

      And that’s only one of the several problems with posts like this. They break the scrollwheel interface, they are ugly as sin, and they are harder to read.

      Please, no more tweetstorm-only posts.

      I know, I’m still getting more than my money’s worth out of LGM, so I have no right to make demands. Freely granted. Still.

      • efgoldman

        I’m still getting more than my money’s worth out of LGM, so I have no right to make demands.

        Maybe we can go to proportional posting.

      • To be fair, the Internet Archive’s Wayback Machine might still be capable of showing us what the posts looked like in the past.

        Still, though, it probably would be better to have the texts of the tweets simply copied to the body of the message to prevent bit-rot in the future, since most people won’t think to use the Wayback Machine (or even know that it exists).

      • ForkyMcSpoon

        ASCII-only posts, please!

        • Gregor Sansa

          Ⓨⓔⓐⓗ!

          • N__B

            I hear that as spoken by the 8-foot pitcher of Kool-Aid as he bursts through a wall.

            • “Spoken by”? I thought pitchers of Kool-Aid communicated entirely by writing on their own condensation.

              • N__B

                Wrong, wrong, wrong!

                • BiloSagdiyev

                  I bet Pete Rose didn’t bet that anthropomorphized pticher would be busting through that wall that day.

              • BiloSagdiyev

                Lee R, you just made me imagine a remake of Memento, but with the Hi C pitcher and condensate instead of tattoos.

                • lmontheinternet

                  NGL, that would’ve been a better film.

            • BiloSagdiyev

              Into or out of a compound in Guyana?

      • keta

        Seconded.

        • cleek

          third

  • Eisenhower Republicans are a myth. The reasonable republicans left the party decades ago. They are what people refer to as neoliberals. They are the corporate, pro status quo democrats, whose commitment to anything left of Nixon is as deep as the paint on Ann Coulter’s fingernails. Centrists are a myth. There are knee jerk contrarians whose contempt for the actual work of politics, of coalition building, of compromise, of finding common ground, of raising money and running a campaign makes them ignore the issues that could make thier lives materially better in favor of idological issues that will make all of our lives worse. Libertarian indepedents are a myth. There are republicans who smoke pot. Wasting time on these unicorn voters is a classic blunder when women, young people, people of color and recent immigrants exist. Fire them up, get them registered and get them to the polls and enjoy big wins like Obama. Also don’t ignore the downticket races like the democrats have been doing for decades. the republicans win because they reliably turn out voters, they make it easy for their voters to register, and for them to vote while making it harder for their opponents. They need to be fought at every level when they try this disenfranchisement bullshit.

    • I think there may be some Eisenhower Republicans out among the unicorns. And that they, or at least almost all of them under 35, call themselves “liberals”. Some of the people you describe are Democrats. I doubt all of them are. There seem to be a lot of people out there who are all “I’m liberal of course but no sensible person thinks the Democrats can go on with socialism as they’ve been for 80 years!”, and some of them may be committed to Democrats for identity-politics reasons, but it’s Republicans they listen to and probably.

    • Davis X. Machina

      There are knee jerk contrarians whose contempt for the actual work of politics, of coalition building, of compromise, of finding common ground, of raising money and running a campaign makes them ignore the issues that could make their lives materially better in favor of ideological issues that will make all of our lives worse.

      Their number is Legion. And they have A Plan:

      Step 1 — get the parties out of politics
      Step 2 — get the politicians out of politics
      Step 3 — get the politics out of politics

      Then everything will be wonderful.

      • dogboy

        Step 4 – get this man Not Sure to fix everything.

      • BiloSagdiyev

        Step 5 – Mommy and Daddy stop fighting!

        • lmontheinternet

          Step 6 – Profit?

  • This story from the Buffalo News, is comedy gold. These are people whose food bank will be cut off saying stuff like:

    “I’d vote for him again 20 more times if I could,” said Hal McWilliams, 59, a self-employed contractor from Portageville. “Build the wall! …Democrats do everything in their power to destroy this country. Hillary Clinton was everything I am against. She was out to destroy the culture that made this country: Hard work, guns, freedom.”

    I mean, c’mon. If you are going to say things like that for real, what’s Dave Chappelle suposed to do for punchlines?

    • John F

      It’s not comedy gold, it’s depressing, as Ron White says, “you can’t fix stupid”

      OTOH the people who actually are somewhat educated in that article, are like, “Oh crap what have we done”

      But the stupidity on display:

      “We love him,” said Keith Muhlenbeck, 46. “We support him in everything he’s doing. He’s a businessman who knows how to get things done, and you can tell he has America’s best interests at heart.”

      Washington pundits might be criticizing Trump for his recent reversals on a number of policy issues, including trade with China and the future of the Export-Import Bank. But Bobbi Muhlenbeck sees the president as a tough talker who stands his ground.

      “I like that he doesn’t back down,” said Muhlenbeck’s wife, 49.

      In contrast to Obama, “Trump is a go-getter,” she said. “There’s no bull … with him. He’s up front on everything.”

      • Gone2Ground

        “The Muhlenbecks, who live on government disability payments due to assorted ailments and injuries…”

        When he doesn’t back down from cutting SS and SSDI, I wonder how they’ll feel. Paging Regretful Trump Voter number 9,546….

        • ForkyMcSpoon

          They will discover that Tom Perez is right when he says Republicans don’t give a shit about people*.

          *Yes, that means you too, not just the blahs

        • PunditusMaximus

          This is the part where I note that as utterly unacceptable as Tr45 and all other Republicans are, Obama supporters have zero room to stand on this issue, as Obama was such a vicious Class Warrior.

          I applied for Disability during the halcyon Obama years. The first denial was so blisteringly contemptuous that they did not bother to spell my illnesses correctly, instead creating a weird portmanteau of two of them into a set of nonsense words that do not exist.

          I was, of course, denied. After a year and a half of waiting on a decision. I gave up counting the typoes in the original document.

          • sibusisodan

            That sucks. I’m sorry you had to go through all that, without any good outcome at the end.

          • BiloSagdiyev

            Please don’t interpret sloppiness and stupidity as contempt. As someone who has spent his whole adult life working inside a similar machine, what happened with the medical terms and their spelling was that they hired a bunch of people who work cheap, but aren’t necessarily all that literate, and then yelled at them, FASTER! FASTER! CRANK THE HANDLE FASTER!!!

            The cliche about SSA is that you have to appeal, and it helps to get a laywer. I had a friend who seemed like a shoe-in for SSD, but I suspect they were skeptical because of her age and that the issue was primarily depression. Denial, appeal, lawyer, grant, retro payment.

      • ForkyMcSpoon

        Sherri complained that the Obama administration fought her effort to get Social Security disability payments

        I'm sure Trump and Ryan will make sure that it's easier for her to get those Social Security disability benefits, they're always talking about how we need to spend more to help the poor and sick.

      • Dr. Ronnie James, DO

        This “Trump = no BS!” argument always blows my mind. Trump may be the biggest bullshitter in US history, if not human history. If you can’t smell his BS coming from 50 miles away…

    • JFC, THAT READS LIKE AN ONION ARTICLE.

      • efgoldman

        THAT READS LIKE AN ONION ARTICLE.

        I came here (and to Balloon Juice) sometime between the 2006 and 2008 elections.
        Even then, it was clear that the RWNJs were strangling irony, parody and satire in their baby cribs.
        I honestly don’t know how The Onion stays in business.

  • Mike G

    He’s the biggest FUCK YOU to every coastal elite in the country.

    A NYC real estate (self-proclaimed) billionaire with a gold-plated jet as a rebuke to coastal elites. Makes a lot of sense.
    If they’d voted for Toby Keith they’d at least be consistent.

  • Davis X. Machina

    Listen, folks, they wanted a troll to win the presidency and as long he’s trollin’, THEY’RE. COOL. WITH. HIM. Jesus Christ, KNOW THIS.

    ‘He hates the same people I hate. Hand me the goddamn ballot.’

    It’s not all that complicated. Really. Half the political nation are essentially assholes.

    I understand a certain level of revulsion, a natural, reflex, reluctance to come to grips with that fact.

    However it’s the most parsimonious explanation. And it saves the phenomenon.

    You need a helluva good reason to overturn that.

  • The last tweet says it all. His base are just awful people. End of story.

  • Mr_Neutron

    I’m reminded of some lines from Dryden’s Absalom and Achitophel:

    These led the pack; though not of surest scent,
    Yet deepest mouth’d against the government.
    A numerous host of dreaming saints succeed;
    Of the true old enthusiastic breed:
    ‘Gainst form and order they their pow’r employ;
    Nothing to build, and all things to destroy.
    But far more numerous was the herd of such,
    Who think too little, and who talk too much.
    These, out of mere instinct, they knew not why,
    Ador’d their father’s God, and property

    • Mr_Neutron

      And Dryden’s Mac Flecknoe is also the perfect description of our President:

      Shadwell alone, of all my sons, is he
      Who stands confirm’d in full stupidity.
      The rest to some faint meaning make pretence,
      But Shadwell never deviates into sense.
      Some beams of wit on other souls may fall,
      Strike through and make a lucid interval;
      But Shadwell’s genuine night admits no ray,
      His rising fogs prevail upon the day

      • Karen24

        I looked this one up. My favorite line is “but loads of Shadwell chok’d the way.”

  • NewishLawyer

    I think that racism and sexism do explain a lot of why people went for Trump even if they have voted Democratic in the past.

    The problem is that I am probably one of the worst people to bring this up because I come from a long line of liberal Jews who have always lived in or near major metropolitan areas that are Democratic strongholds.

    Yes I technically pass as white-European but since I grew up in a very secular Jewish way in NYC-Metro, I know nothing of what is generally considered the staples of American childhood. It doesn’t necessarily help that my parents did not let me join the Cub Scouts/Boy Scouts and we were not much of an all-American activity family. I have memories of going to Young People’s Concerts at Lincoln Center, most people seem to have memories of family amusement park trips. My parents were not amusement park goers.

    So when I talk about this, I seem like I am coming from a place of purity. Whereas for other people, the racist Trump voter might be the woman who helped look after you while your parents were deployed or your Scout leader or something.

    • John F

      Yes I technically pass as white-European but since I grew up in a very secular Jewish way in NYC-Metro, I know nothing of what is generally considered the staples of American childhood.

      That’s odd, I grew up with scads of very secular Jews in the NYC-Metro area, and their kids joined the scouts and went to amusement parks as much as everyone else’s kids, I think you may be confusing your specific family’s proclivities with your ethnic group’s as a whole.

    • Snuff curry

      You say some variation of this tired binary of country and city mice in every thread on the topic of racist, salt-of-the-earth Americans (that last line in your last para is pure, eye-rolling schmaltz). Does it not get tiresome?

  • Dr. Ronnie James, DO

    My Election Night mantra was basically: “This country is full of assholes.”

    Since then i’ve amended it: “…and every few years they get tired of not having an asshole in charge, and work to nominate the foulest most unpleasant asshole they can find, and make him President for 8 years.”

    Honestly, I’m thinking we could classify most election cycles: “asshole-primed” (Democrat in WH; asshole Republican in WH 4 years) or “non-asshole-primed” (asshole Republican in WH for 8 years; non-asshole Republican in WH for 4 years). It doesn’t augur well for getting Trump out, I’m afraid.

  • NewishLawyer

    https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/04/the-silent-crisis-of-retail-employment/523428/

    Fairly ontopic but retail has been shedding jobs and no one cares because many retail employees are people of color.

  • Harkov311

    Memo to any reporters who are writing this story for the millionth time: be sure to ask the Trump voters who they voted for in 2012 and 2008. “Republican voted for Republican, still likes Republican” is definitely not a story.

  • Zagarna_84

    Two points.

    1. Many people who voted for Trump did so not out of the kind of nihilism you seem to attribute to them (“I want society to fall apart”) but out of a gambler’s mentality (“If things keep going the way they do, I’m definitely screwed, so I’ll vote for radical change”). The latter is a rational strategy under certain circumstances that arguably hold true today for any number of people.

    2. I don’t know what percentage of Trump voters are crazed racist, sexist, and/or Christian-Identity nutjobs who are unreachable (or reachable only by compromising your principles to the point that you might as well not even bother). I’ll stipulate that it’s very high. 75%? 80%? More? But what this sort of rant misses is that those are not the people you are trying to persuade. The ones you are trying to persuade are the paragraph 1 people. Sweeping generalizations about how terrible everyone who voted for Trump is do nothing but anger the paragraph 1 people and drive them away. And, just so I’m being crystal clear here, that anger is not mere petulance; it’s completely justified, because you are being an ass toward them in your rush to erect s**t-covered straw men.

    Maybe you’re just venting, but you seem to be hostile to the very notion of talking to Trump voters about what they want. That’s political suicide. Do you want the Dems to commit political suicide so that you can feel fuzzy inside? If so, you’re engaging in self-indulgent wankery just like the Stein voters. If not, I’d suggest redirecting your energies to, well, anything else. I find filing hostile comments on stupid Republican regulatory proposals is a good way to vent my personal rage against the machine, but YMMV.

    • PunditusMaximus

      1. Yeah, I’ll give you 5% or so. The white Obama/Tr45ers or Nobody Tr45ers.

      2. 90%, probably more. You have to be either deranged or desperate to vote for a Repubican, and Tr45 is a Republican.

      I know what Trump voters want. They want to murder me and the people I love in camps. They’ve been very clear on that.

      • Right. As a queer Jew, I couldn’t possibly be any less interested in coming to an accord with shitgibbon supporters. If other people think that’s a worthwhile use of their time, knock yourselves out. But frankly, anyone who criticises me for not caring to do so is an objectively horrible person, almost as horrible as shitgibbon voters themselves are. Many of these people literally want me dead.

      • John F

        1. Yeah, I’ll give you 5% or so. The white Obama/Tr45ers or Nobody Tr45ers.

        That is/would have been more than enough to swing the election

    • Davis X. Machina

      but you seem to be hostile to the very notion of talking to Trump voters about what they want.

      Yeah, I’ll fess up. I’m hostile to discussions about doing away with the 14th, 15th, and 20th amendments.

      • PunditusMaximus

        forgot the 13th

      • Pete

        Yeah, I’ll fess up. I’m hostile to discussions about doing away with the 14th, 15th, and 20th amendments.

        If that’s what they want, it doesn’t have to be a long discussion.

    • Aaron Morrow

      Now seems like a bad time to suggest that Democrats commit political suicide by grabbing the Trump anchor and pandering to the logical fascists of #1.

      May I assume that the refusal to note their logic is fascist is correlated to the desire to watch Democrats commit political suicide?

  • PunditusMaximus

    What Ferguson and its long aftermath has made crystal clear to me is that white people are fucking awful, and they do things for awful reasons.

    • Pete

      What Ferguson and its long aftermath life has made crystal clear to me is that white many people of all races, colors and creeds are fucking awful, and they do things for awful reasons.

      I obviously can’t correct a statement about what something has made clear to you, but I think my corrections reflect a broader reality.
      If you can’t see that here in US, look overseas. You may find a few examples of oppression and atrocity you can’t blame on persons of European descent.

  • nobody

    Some of us experienced or know of very bitterly contested divorces. The kind where the couples hate each other so much, they’d rather see the other side suffer even if it hurts themselves as much or more. They’d rather spend every last dime enriching lawyers rather than try to divide assets and custody equitably.

    Well that’s exactly the phenomenon with many Trump voters. So for anyone who has trouble understanding how Trump (and Republican voters more generally) vote their hate and vote against their interest, its exactly like that. And the Koch Brothers and the like are the equivalent of divorce lawyers that the haters would rather get the money than the object of their hate.

    • Pete

      Well that’s exactly the phenomenon with many Trump voters. So for anyone who has trouble understanding how Trump (and Republican voters more generally) vote their hate and vote against their interest, its exactly like that.

      I think that’s a good analogy for many core Trump supporters. At the risk of Broderism, I wonder to what extent this explains far left purity politics.

      • PunditusMaximus

        pragmatism means losing to a reality tv star after losing 1,000 state-level offices over 8 years

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