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Preventing Panic?

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As the Trump administration seeks to implement precisely what he said he would do and deport every undocumented immigrant in the country (although somehow I think the Irish undocumented immigrants won’t quite be treated the same as those from El Salvador and I wonder why that is….), it tries to claim that it wants to prevent panic while destroying lives and families. OK. Because what it is really doing is Making America White Again.

The new policies represent a sharp break from the final years of the Obama administration and could reverse a reduction in the number of deportations in President Barack Obama’s last years in office.

After deportations reached a record high of 434,000 in 2013, pressure from immigration advocates prompted the Obama administration to implement new guidelines that focused enforcement on hardened criminals. The number of people deported in 2015 was just over 333,000, the lowest number since 2007.

Kelly’s new DHS policies considerably broaden the pool of those who are prioritized for deportations, including undocumented immigrants who have been charged with crimes but not convicted, those who commit acts that constitute a “chargeable criminal offense,” and those who an immigration officer concludes pose “a risk to public safety or national security.”

The Trump administration “is using the specter of crime to create fear . . . in the American community about immigrants in order to create an opening to advance the indiscriminate persecution of immigrants,” said Clarissa Martínez-de-Castro, deputy vice president at the National Council of La Raza. “This administration is saying, ‘Now, everybody is going to be a priority,’ and the devil may care.”

DHS officials emphasized that the guidelines in Kelly’s memos are focused on carrying out Trump’s vision and that they hew closely to the language of the executive orders. And they said the secretary has written the memos to abide by federal immigration laws established by Congress.

It is my feeling that ICE agents should be seen as people committing crimes against humanity. If you choose to deport people for a living, you are a major cog in an unjust machine. These are the active enemies of everything that you should hold dear about this nation. And they deserve to be treated with utter contempt by everyone who knows them. There are plenty of other law enforcement or public safety jobs they could hold. This is the most despicable possible job. Shun them as racist thugs.

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  • so-in-so

    Granted, but who has the guts to hang around the ICE office and start writing down license plate numbers? I’m sure a lot of these guys hang out with other members of the force and their families, period. Don’t regular cops do the same a lot? I’ve know retired police officers, but never hung out with active duty ones.

  • DrDick

    ICE officers as Stalag guards. Nice image, I like it. I would add that until the 1990s, most of the undocumented immigrants were Irish and Polish and nobody cared about it. When it shifted to Hispanics and Asians in the 1990s, everybody lost their shit.

    • Gregor Sansa

      Did you hear about the Polish submarine?

    • ajay

      ICE officers as Stalag guards. Nice image, I like it

      A Stalag was a prisoner of war camp.

  • Davis X. Machina

    Slavecatchers. They were beneath contempt in the antebellum North.

  • NewishLawyer

    Freedom of Movement seems to be one of those grand liberal ideas/ideals that we have a hard time convincing a majority to be in favor of. I wonder if it is because freedom of movement is often seen as being more beneficial to the “elites.” I.e. people who can afford to do junior year abroad, work abroad while in their 20s, international vacations, etc.

    There are lots of Americans who don’t even seem to like the idea of freedom of movement within the United States. Look at how Oregonians feel about California and Californians moving to Oregon and this is between blue states!

    This isn’t in disagreeing with what you say but I am just trying to get to the root causes against freedom of movement.

    Liberals don’t always help with their memes. One made fun of “immigrants are coming to take our jobs” and the snarky reply was “Yes, Muhammed the Neurologist is coming to take your high school degree only job.” Plenty of well-educated people come here for highly skilled jobs but there are also plenty of people who are willing to be in low-paid work in the United States despite their educational attainment for a variety of reasons.

    Plus sometimes companies do try and do cartoonishly evil things with HB-1 Visas. See the outcry when Disney almost laid off their entire IT department before getting called out.

    • so-in-so

      Oddly enough, people don’t really stay mad at the corporations, and seek to punish the immigrants instead.

      It’s mostly fear, you hear it over and over on the right wing. Scary looking foreign people, how can we know they aren’t terrorist? Never mind that a couple of white guys in a rental truck were the biggest terrorist threat pre-9/11. And RW white guys have killed more people since (but you don’t get called a terrorist if you are white and saying Christian inspired stuff while you shoot people at the local Planned Parenthood or Community Center).

      • Junipermo

        Yep. Seems we hardly hear a peep about stricter enforcement of the immigration laws against employers who knowingly hire undocumented workers. It’s all about snatching up those scary brown people. But no, Trump and his cultists aren’t racist.

        • Karen24

          So very much this. I will believe this isn’t about racism when I see the head of HR of Walmart perp-walked for allowing stores to hire undocumented workers.

        • DrDick

          I am pretty sure that Trump’s businesses are among those hiring undocumented workers, since that is pretty ubiquitous in the hotel and restaurant industry.

      • rea

        Never mind that a couple of white guys in a rental truck were the biggest terrorist threat pre-9/11.

        It’s an article of faith among much of the right that those guys were working for Saddam.

        • so-in-so

          I suppose that’s when the stop hailing them as heroes? Or isn’t that a thing anymore?

        • efgoldman

          It’s an article of faith among much of the right that those guys were working for Saddam.

          Really? I hadn’t heard that, in all these years.

          • Pete

            Yep — that’s been a long-standing conspiracy theory.

          • Matt McIrvin

            It’s one of Laurie “Saddam did EVERYTHING” Mylroie’s.

            • rea

              Cheney, too.

      • LeeEsq

        Eh, there are plenty of anti-immigrant people on the populist right who are fall for punishing corporations for hiring immigrants legally or not over Americans. The H1-B visa is an object of particular hatred for large segments of the Alt-Right.

        Liberals and libertarians might have not much use for the nation-state besides administrative convenience because national identity is a disfavored form of identity among liberal, libertarian, and leftists. National identity is still real for many people though. People can be very to slightly hypocritical about wanting hard border for their country and soft borders for other country but the idea that their particular country should get to select who gets in and who does not is non an un-popular one globally.

        • Anna in PDX

          You know, this is hard to credit:

          Liberals and libertarians might have not much use for the nation-state besides administrative convenience because national identity is a disfavored form of identity among liberal, libertarian, and leftists. National identity is still real for many people though.

          …if you are talking about conservatives. They are not patriotic. Because when it comes to actual treason, like selling American secrets to other countries, they are inexplicably not in favor of punishment. The only thing that matters to them is whiteness and rural identity. As a liberal who actually thinks treason is a very serious crime, I call bullshit on this whole narrative of “you internationalists just don’t understand these people.”

      • Jonny Scrum-half

        People don’t stay mad at the corporations because there isn’t a propaganda campaign to demonize the corporations, even though they’re the ones who really are benefiting the most from illegal immigrants.

    • Davis X. Machina

      Look at how Oregonians feel about California and Californians moving to Oregon and this is between blue states!

      And it’s what we feel about Massholes, and other species of People from Away.

      When it goes beyond bumper stickers and becomes random acts of violence and intimidation, I’ll worry. Until then, not so much.

      • Judas Peckerwood

        Exactly.

      • efgoldman

        And it’s what we feel about Massholes

        Why would we move someplace where the weather is even shittier and they elect asswipes like Governor Mucilage?

        • Davis X. Machina

          Come up for the summer. Or the foliage. Spend money. Leave.
          Works for us. Lots of nice restaurants in Portland, too.

          • efgoldman

            Lots of nice restaurants in Portland, too.

            Narragansett’s a pain in the ass to get to, but it’s a lot closer.

        • Matt McIrvin

          We just elect NICE Republicans.

    • LeeEsq

      Disney also lobbied Congress to create a special visa that is really only useful if you own a giant theme park with lots of human actors pretending to be cartoon characters.

    • aturner339

      I think this speaks more To the strongly racialized nature of immigration debates since basically forever. When people speak of borders and their relationship to sovereignty and “nationalism” they are presupposing the nation to be “blood and soil” based and not credal. The elites are blamed because only through their favor could the unworthy be admitted into the nation.

      • LeeEsq

        The proper term for the opposite of blood nationalism is civic nationalism not credal nationalism. Considering American immigration history, credal has some rather unfortunate immigrants. Early 20th century immigration opponents argued against immigrants for believing in in-American things like trade unions, socialism, Roman Catholicism, baseball on Sunday, and lager beer. They were seen as being just against what Americans were supposed to believe in as of inferior origins.

      • Ronan

        On this, These sociologists stuff on the varieties on US nationalism is quite interesting

        http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/bonikowski/files/bonikowski_and_dimaggio_-_varieties_of_american_popular_nationalism.pdf?m=1449264471

  • howard

    i don’t know much about kelly but i trust we can stop including him in any list of “adults in the trump administration” and instead shift him over to “another of trump’s lackeys.”

    • Pete

      You can if you like, but any Secretary of DHS under the Trump administration will have to enact and implement policies in line with Trump’s policy preferences.

      If the rules are legal, they will stick. If you want to change that, win some elections.

  • Junipermo

    The DHS is full of shit.

    There’s no way that this memo is going to do anything but cause panic, and with good reason. There’s nowhere to hold all the people swept up by these new orders until their cases are heard, which means new construction of detention centers and mass incarceration. Yeah, that’s never proven to be problematic at all. And of course, some people who are here legally will be mistakenly arrested. And who here trusts this maniac’s administration to properly vet the 10,000 ICE and border patrol agents?

    I live in a neighborhood where there are lots of immigrants from the Ivory Coast and Senegal, many of whom are Muslim. The thought that my area might suddenly be getting a lot of extra attention from men with guns is deeply unnerving, and potentially unsafe for citizens, legal residents, and undocumented people alike.

    • so-in-so

      DHS has been FOS since it’s inception. Among President Obama’s failures was not breaking it back up (but we know the RW would have totally lost it at that point, and maybe the sub-parts of DHS would have gone along with them).

      • Sev

        I fault him for once again going halfway to meet the Repugs by stepping up deportations- for what? He’d have had a better chance of getting an immigration bill if he threatened to open the border/reduce enforcement etc.

        • Gregor Sansa

          Didn’t happen. Obama’s higher numbers were an illusion of reporting; they started counting Mexicans they apprehended in the act of crossing as deportations.

          But he should have been shouting that fact from the rooftops. Racists were never gonna give him credit on that issue.

    • PotemkinMetropolitanRegion

      Obama’s DoJ decided to stop contracting with for-profit detention centers (shittily run and wholly inadequate healthcare for detainees) to hold deportees. I imagine Attorney General Jeff Gremlins will get these centers up and running in no time.

    • libarbarian

      Keep your camera handy and get ready to start rolling video at short notice.

      • so-in-so

        Any apps that allow streaming video directly to a secure, preferably off-shore, site? ‘Cause the video isn’t any good if the ICE agent smashes your phone before you upload it.

    • LeeEsq

      Nearly every Chinese street vendor in New York, of admittedly fake goods, decided to close shop after Trump came into office because of his draconian immigration policy even though it is only a misdemeanor to be safe. Los Angeles decriminalized street vending to protect immigrants.

    • CrunchyFrog

      There’s nowhere to hold all the people swept up by these new orders until their cases are heard, which means new construction of detention centers and mass incarceration. Yeah, that’s never proven to be problematic at all.

      They’ve thought of that. They’ve invented a new procedure of deporting to Mexico while waiting for your hearing to come up. It’s in the documentation at the links.

      And of course, some people who are here legally will be mistakenly arrested.

      And deported, especially if they use the deport-now-review-later process mentioned above.

      • jdasf111

        They’ve invented a new procedure of deporting to Mexico while waiting for your hearing to come up

        It’s not new and they didn’t invent it. It’s Section 235(b)(2)(C) of the INA.

    • Joe Bob the III

      There hasn’t been much, if any, discussion of the infrastructure that would be needed to dramatically increase deportations. Removals under Obama peaked around 450,000 in 2013 and fell to around 330,000. If Trump wants to deport ‘millions’ there will need to be more agents, judges, detention facilities, modes of transport. Those agents will need stations, the judges will need courtrooms, etc., etc.

      I suppose Trump could ramp up to maybe 500,000 deportations per year within the rough boundaries of the current system. Beyond that? If people are to be detained in something resembling humane conditions and have their rights respected in the removal proceedings, it’s going to take a while to create the framework for that. For example, I’m sure Trump likes the image of 10,000 more agents rounding people up but to actually remove those people will require literally hundreds more immigration judges.

      Of course, what I’m getting at is that for Trump to conduct mass expulsions, and quickly, by its nature that will require detaining people in inhumane conditions and violating their rights. If Trump is to have his way on deportations, the Republicans in Congress are going to have to get their hands dirty. They won’t be able to stand on the sidelines and quietly goose the ICE appropriation. They will need to pass legislation that will make it easier to remove people from the country.

      • CrunchyFrog

        This was the same kind of logistics thinking that cramped the Germans before they came up with the Final Solution. But you can already see the bold, inventive thinking in the directives that were sent out today.

        1) So forget about the constraints regarding facilities and judges and the like. The new provisions, taken together, allow an agent to use his judgment to determine someone is considered a risk and then expedite their deportation directly by using a procedure of deport-now-while-immigration-case-is-under-review.

        2) The number of agents is a constraint, yes, but they can be inventive. Expect mass deputization of other branches of law enforcement (many of whom will be extremely eager). Also expect Obama-era standards that rejected 60% of border gestapo applicants and required 18 months of training before starting on the job to be tossed. Contracts with mall-rent-a-cops will fill the gap in gestapo personnel, especially if you stop enforcing the rules and regulations governing their behavior on the job.

        Honestly, people keep thinking there are roadblocks in the system to stop this stuff. There are – but they are all going to be smashed down with no resistance from those in power.

        • Joe Bob the III

          What I think is arguable is how enthusiastic local law enforcement jurisdictions will be about being press-ganged into ICE. Some, like the Arpaios of the world, will be. Those who have a genuine concern about public safety know that using police resources to round up immigrants who are minding their own business is a waste of time and money.

          Perhaps more importantly, a mayor with a municipal police department or an elected county sheriff will instinctively defend their jurisdiction, their staff, and their budget. Most have enough real crime to deal with. Not many will be clamoring to take on an unfunded mandate to do ICE’s job for them. To any extent ICE wants city and county LE to participate in immigration enforcement they will need to pay for it. Again, we are back to Congress because Trump’s deportation force can’t get funded by executive order.

        • jam

          Honestly, people keep thinking there are roadblocks in the system to stop this stuff. There are – but they are all going to be smashed down with no resistance from those in power.

          Indeed. The white nationalist fascists in the White House know what they’re doing and know what they’re willing to do in the course of their planned ethnic cleansing.

          • CrunchyFrog

            To be honest, until today I’d been hopeful that their sheer incompetence was going to severely limit the damage they’d do. Then I read the new memos. Unfortunately, they found someone who really understands the system who is equally white racist as Trump/Bannon/et al are. I guess that was inevitable, though. Evil + competence. It’s going to be bad.

            How bad? We can hope for the best, prepare for the worst. The worst, unfortunately, is worse than anything in the 20th century. These white genocidists have the advantages of having studied the 3rd reich in great detail, understanding all of the mistakes, and of how to use modern technology for their cause. Do not kid yourself – the worst of the people on the side of Trump want to repeat what Hitler did but only this time be much more efficient and effective.

  • Judas Peckerwood

    It is my feeling that ICE agents should be seen as people committing crimes against humanity.

    B-b-b-but they’re only following orders!

    • cppb

      I get that liberals are hesitant to paint groups with broad brushes, and I’m especially sympathetic when it involves people’s jobs under capitalism, but it still shocks me how difficult it is to get agreement on (IMO) basic issues like “some jobs necessarily involve monstrosities and decent people should refuse to do them.”

      For instance, in the short time before I left the silly “Lawyers of the Left” Facebook group, a staff attorney for ICE introduced herself and somebody literally said “solidarity forever” to her as a welcome. And when someone else finally pointed out that maybe a group supposedly organizing “the left” against Trump and his racist policies shouldn’t hang out with people whose job it is to deport people, the group pulled out every tired cliche about working from the inside, using discretion, the need to prosecute/deport murderers and rapists, etc.

      Then a few weeks later we start seeing headlines about coordinated raids, temporary detention centers, and plans for worse. But god forbid we be divisive

      I can’t tell if it’s just that many liberals don’t actually oppose deportation as long as it’s not against what they perceive as the good immigrants, reflexive deference to law enforcement and professionals, or something else. And I don’t really know what to do about it, other than promote posts like Eric’s exposing them for the inhuman monsters they are.

  • Davis X. Machina

    In medieval Europe, if you were a runaway serf, and made it to a city, and stayed un-caught for a year and a day, you were free. Stadtluft macht frei.

    That’s my reform legislation, right there. Party like it’s 1299.

  • Mike in DC

    1. Increase immigration limits
    2. Phase in undocumented workers into green card holders.
    3. Tighten e verify and crack down on employers who are non compliant.

    I saw one paper advocating for increasing annual immigration to 10 million per year. By the end of the century we’d be the most populous nation on earth and our gdp growth would be phenomenal.

  • LeeEsq

    Resident immigration lawyer here. Trump’s executive orders are a draconian mess. Even if you were for tougher and stricter enforcement of the immigration law, Trump’s ideas are simply going to overwhelm the system even if you mainly completely ignore due process. Its being tough in the stupid and most inefficient way possible.

    It also could paradoxically result in more people getting status. Unless there is a final removal order, an undocumented alien is going to have to be put into proceedings, which could take years, and if the undocumented alien is detained months. It is less work for Immigration Judges and DHS lawyers to grant a case than to deny it. The alien is almost always likely to appeal a denial and that means the Immigration Judge is going to have to come up with a full decision. If the IJ grants relief and DHS decides to waive appeal than the IJ only needs to fill out a piece of paper. Swamp IJs are going to prefer the latter to the former even if they are on the very tough side eventually.

    The above is assuming that aliens are going to be put into removal proceedings but unless ICE gets really wild, its kind of hard for them not to because its part of the INA. Unless you re-write the INA, which is always possible with this Congress, its up to the government to prove that an alien should not be in the United States and the alien gets to apply for any applicable relief from removal.

    • efgoldman

      Trump’s executive orders are a draconian mess.

      Sooner or later, Citron Shithead and his boss, president Bannonazi, are going to start running these crapfests past actually competent lawyers for rewrite, coherence, and legality. It will probably be later rather than sooner, because each of them KNOWS he’s the smartest guy on the planet, but it’s coming at some point.

      • LeeEsq

        That would require a humanity that neither of them have. The fact that they are a draconian mess is something that Trump and his allies and supporters want because it always them to be as cruel as possible. Plenty of competent lawyers sympathetic to these goals will tell them that their are still things they can’t do because of the INA, CFR, and Constitution because these things still matter or they aren’t willing to pay for it.

        • howard

          president bannon certainly doesn’t want any restrictions from lawyers, so it doesn’t matter what his sidekick little donny thinks.

      • so-in-so

        This IS the re-write…

    • Davebo

      Unless there is a final removal order, an undocumented alien is going to have to be put into proceedings, which could will take years

      Ok, maybe not definitely with FIFO, but still, a long time especially if you start a massive round up. And for those who’s cases have been pushed back years after already waiting years due to FIFO? I’d say better than 90% are happy with that but for that 10% that aren’t it sucks.

      It is less work for Immigration Judges and DHS lawyers to grant a case than to deny it.

      And yet they are denied at an extremely high rate. < 80%?

      • Davebo

        Meant greater than 80%. Where I am, 84.5%.

        • LeeEsq

          I practice in New York and New Jersey, so my grant rate is higher.

          • Davebo

            I understand. And I assume you’re talking asylum cases.

            • LeeEsq

              Yes, although I had a fair amount of luck in other stricter jurisdictions to.

  • John Revolta

    somehow I think the Irish undocumented immigrants won’t quite be treated the same as those from El Salvador and I wonder why that is….)

    Sure it’s their sweet lilting melodies and their charming way with words, ya bastard.

    • efgoldman

      Sure it’s their sweet lilting melodies and their charming way with words

      It’s all that tweetly tweeting in 6/8 time.

    • Dennis Orphen

      You can also always tell which ones are the IRA terrorists by the huge sideburns and plaid bell bottom trousers.

  • creature

    It won’t be but a short jump to ‘let me see your papers’ for anybody walking (or driving) around. Security and all that rot, ya know! The ‘can’t be too careful’ concept being pushed by the Trump admin has the logical conclusion to that end.

    • so-in-so

      Plus side, we’ll all be allowed concealed carry, so those agents will need to be polite… so I’ve been repeatedly told.

    • I got stopped at a random checkpoint in Oklahoma and asked if I was a citizen. This was back in 2003 or 2004. I forget if it was state police or local sheriff but I don’t think they were Border Patrol.

      • efgoldman

        I got stopped at a random checkpoint in Oklahoma

        In midair?

      • Davis X. Machina

        Ditto, on a roadblock/checkpoint on i-95 near Bangor, ME. Feds, including ICE/CPB.

        • mainerobinson

          Wow, when? I lived up that way during and after 9/11. May have left just in time to miss it.

          • Davis X. Machina

            2005? 2006? Up to UMaine Orono for an event. We stayed in the Bangor motel where they were bunking the agents. Must have been 60 of them.

        • CrunchyFrog

          I miss the 4th amendment.

      • Chetsky

        Heck, a relation of mine (little old brown lady, citizen, lived in a 60mi radius for …. 40yr) got stopped, asked for proof of citizenship -before- Dampnut got elected.

        I kid you not.

        ETA: in the DFW area, so …. not 100mi from border. And it was local tinpot cop.

        • rea

          in the DFW area, so …. not 100 mi from border.

          Dallas is 400 miles from the border at Laredo

    • Junipermo

      One of my job responsibilities is to collect paperwork for potential new hires, including the documents they need to prove that they are legally allowed to work in the U.S. Someone we’re considering was just here with her paperwork, including her permanent resident card, which I had to copy for our files. We’ve known this person for years, and she’s lovely. I’m not sure of exactly what her background is, but I’m guessing South Asian. I hate the idea of her potentially be hassled by the authorities, or feeling like she has to carry her papers at all times to protect herself.

      • jam

        I hate the idea of her potentially be hassled by the authorities, or feeling like she has to carry her papers at all times to protect herself.

        If she’s here on a green card, the law essentially demands that she carry that documentation at all times.

    • Lurking Canadian

      Back when Arizona was considering (adopted?) a “papers please” law, the best proposal I saw in response was that the police should start randomly asking to see the citizenship papers of all middle aged white males, on suspicion that they might be Canadian.

    • rea

      Trump’s jobs program–we’ll all be employed checking each others’ papers.

  • Mutombo

    Enforcing federal immigration laws as a crime against humanity? Okay then. Why just ICE agents? Why not immigration judges and lawyers for the government?

    • mainerobinson

      Right. And was being an ICE agent okay until Jan. 20, or has it always been a crime, but we weren’t naming it as such?

      • Dennis Orphen

        Anecdotal, but the last time an employer asked me to do something I didn’t want to do, I took the company credit card out of my wallet, all the work keys off of my keychain, laid them on the desk we were sitting at and went home and slept for a few weeks.

        And that was just because I didn’t want to move back to Seattle from Portland.

      • Mutombo

        It was somehow more okay when they were deporting people for the cool president.

        • so-in-so

          No, evidence is they were Jack-booted Thugs then too. And they voted GOP because even while they were deporting people under Obama because he was still too much a wuss in their view.

        • LeeEsq

          Erik criticized Obama plenty for his deportations.

          • Joe_JP

            Did he call all ICE workers “racist thugs” then too? Were they always since the beginning? What happens when they are shunned as thugs? Why should they care how to treat the the people involved. This grand variety of jobs people can have is lovely too. Should we shun prison personnel too? Need a list.

            No. I find this overblown. I try not to call people “garbage” either. Guess war degrades us all in the process.

            • DrDick

              He has said lots of nasty things about ICE for years, as well as about the Border Patrol.

              • Joe_JP

                Nod to consistency. Think comments like:

                “I agree, they’re garbage too. Treat them accordingly.”

                was wrong then too. Should I hate their wives and husbands too? They could have found other people. Oh well.

          • ajay

            Erik criticized Obama plenty for his deportations.

            Did he ever say that Obama was a despicable racist thug and guilty of crimes against humanity? Obama was, after all, in charge of ICE for eight years.

    • Jean-Michel

      I agree, they’re garbage too. Treat them accordingly.

    • DrDick

      Slow day over at Stormfront?

    • Chetsky

      fuck off, you racist prick.

  • Hey, who remembers the 90s when the right was calling federal agents “jack-booted thugs”?

    • Davis X. Machina

      They were coming for your guns, which are sacred, instead of breaking up families, which are not.
      Because Jesus, and the Constitution.

    • Dennis Orphen

      Projection. Always projection.

    • JKTH

      That still applies when the IRS is enforcing tax laws.

    • Joe Bob the III

      That was ATF, not ICE. Totally different.

    • socraticsilence

      That was when we we’re supposed to “aim for the head, they’ll be wearing vests” right?

  • burnspbesq

    “Shun[ning ICE agents] as racist thugs” won’t make a damn bit of difference.

    If you want to change their behavior, sue them personally under 1983 every time they step out of line, and file the motion for partial summary judgment on immunity immediately after the initial scheduling conference. Make them pay with their houses and their 401(k) accounts.

    • efgoldman

      Make them pay with their houses and their 401(k) accounts.

      Serious question, burnsie: Is there enough money in it for plaintiff’s lawyers? Because it doesn’t sound like the kind of thing that even a well-educated person can take on by him/herself.
      Also, ICE agents are probably in the government’s TSP. Is that attachable?

      • burnspbesq

        In the current environment, there is probably not a shortage of qualified lawyers who would take a case like this on either pro bono or on contingency.

        Your second question is a good one, and would require some research. It wouldn’t surprise me to learn that the “old” and “new” plans are treated differently.

  • Woodrowfan

    Lets play republican BINGO. Is this a typical republican policy?

    1. is it cruel? Yes! It divides families
    2. Is it unnecessary? Yes, it does not discriminate between those breaking criminal law and those who are quietly working.
    3. Is it short-sighted? Yes, especially with DREAMERS, who are on route to become productive, tax-paying members of society.
    4. Is it a waste of money? It doesn’t make us safer and it spend money to remove people who pay taxes (even those who get paid in cash under the table pay sales taxes, property taxes in rent, etc)
    5. Does it cater to racial and ethnic fears? Of course.
    6. Does it focus state police power upon people of color as a specific group? Yes, indeed.

    BINGO! cruel, un-necessary, short-sighted, wastes money, and is racist as hell. Hell yes it’s republican!

    • so-in-so

      Those working toward legal residence and citizenship are the worst – they’ll vote Democrat some day, and dilute the white citizen’s votes.

      The horror!

      • Dennis Orphen

        Those working toward legal residence and citizenship are the worst – they’ll vote Democrat some day

        Possibly assuming facts not in evidence, although that is a different issue.

        • so-in-so

          In the view of Trump and followers…

        • efgoldman

          Possibly assuming facts not in evidence

          Historically, California is almost always years ahead of the curve in national politics. They led the conservatives, the “tax revolt”, and anti-immigrant law (Prop 187). They’ve also led the way out. The current RWNJ spittle-flecked flying monkey party is nastier and more virulent than Pete Grey ever was. The counter reaction is delayed, but it’s going to happen down the road.

          • Dennis Orphen

            Not just politically, socially and culturally as well, which almost always preceedes political developments.

          • Matt McIrvin

            And Prop 187 was kind of the turning point, wasn’t it?

  • Mart

    Often stated (not sure exactly true) – Chicago is the largest Polish City outside of Warsaw. Thanks to the Catholic Church there are a good deal of Polish/Mexican families. ICE can get two for the price of one!

    • That has to make for some interesting food if nothing else.

      Barbacoa pierogies maybe?

      • LeeEsq

        Kielbasa burritos. I think I just made myself slightly sick.

        • dl

          sounds ok.

        • Gregor Sansa

          Burritos as you know them are not Mexican food. My wife who grew up in Mexico says the word with an exaggerated Gringo accent.

          Burritos de Juarez son de un solo guiso, se necesitan como 3 para llenarse. “Super” mis huevos.

    • DrDick

      I am not sure it still is, but last time I checked that is indeed true. And there is a huge group of undocumented immigrants among them (I knew some).

  • Anyone else noticed these recruiting commercials for the C.B.P., which I don’t believe were running prior to Trump’s inauguration?

    I guess the grand economic plan is for half of the country to be watching/terrorizing the other half at all times.

    • Dennis Orphen

      You can have slaves without overseerers, but it hard to keep them, let alone get any real work out of them.

    • Lost Left Coaster

      I guess the grand economic plan is for half of the country to be watching/terrorizing the other half at all times.

      That’s pretty much the East German economic model right there.

      If there isn’t one yet, soon there will be programs / hotlines to get people to report their neighbors whom they “suspect” (i.e., they have brown skin) of being undocumented immigrants.

  • Mutombo

    They are preventing panic in the communities — the communities of Trump voters who have been paying attention to Trump’s first month or so and want him to do what he promised during the campaign.

    • so-in-so

      Yeah, and since the jobs aren’t sproutin up, go to the POC bashing instead.

      They’ll STILL be panicked, because that’s how you keep them voting GOP…

    • Dennis Orphen

      They are also distracting everyone, right, left, whatever before they pick our pockets.

      • nadirehsa

        Deporting people isn’t a distraction. It’s a despicable and immoral thing to do.

        The looting and the tax returns and all that is the distraction.

  • Pete

    “It is my feeling that ICE agents should be seen as people committing crimes against humanity.”

    I know you know that term has a well-defined meaning. If you’re using it according to the conventional meaning, can you explain how it fits. Not so sure I see it, even allowing for the hyperbole to be expected from a blog post.

    “If you choose to deport people for a living, you are a major cog in an unjust machine. These are the active enemies of everything that you should hold dear about this nation.”

    You mean all ICE agents and employees, or just those in certain sections? For example, do you really believe that the agents in the Border Patrol are “active enemies of everything that [we] should hold dear about his nation”?

    “And they deserve to be treated with utter contempt by everyone who knows them.”

    No.

    “There are plenty of other law enforcement or public safety jobs they could hold.”

    Yes.

    “This is the most despicable possible job.”
    Not by a long shot.

    “Shun them as racist thugs.”
    Even if they are not?

    Jesus Christ. Take a few deep breaths and do some yoga, Professor. You’re starting to sound like a Stein supporter talking about Hillary Clinton last summer.

    • nadirehsa

      If their job requires them to perform racist actions, and they don’t quit, or at least resist significantly, why should we care if they’re personally racist or not?

      • L2P

        If you’re calling what ICE agents performing “racist actions,” then all law enforcement officers in America are performing “racist actions” and committing crimes against humanity.

    • Lost Left Coaster

      We’re watching a campaign of ethnic cleansing unfold before our eyes. From everything we’ve seen so far, we should not expect Trump to stop here.

      • To clarify: This order alone qualifies as a proposal for ethnic cleansing. It is not difficult to imagine things getting worse quickly from there.

    • Gregor Sansa

      ICE agents are by and large horrible people to begin with and the job makes them worse. I wouldn’t say CAH but…

  • e.a.foster

    It will be easy to hire those 15K and they will gleefully do their jobs. We can also look forward to some really nasty cases of excessive force and the lawsuits will follow.

    This is being done to feed the rabid base and that is it. its going to be interesting once a lot of people have been deported who will do the harvesting and how all those white entitled elites are going to fare once they have to clean their own houses and mow their own lawns. Those in the rust belt will not be lining up for those jobs. It will be interesting to see if they deport more undocumented workers from Democratic states than Republican States. Deporting farm labour in California would be a big help to farms in Florida and the American south, those republican states.

  • Fidalgo

    Does anyone know how the “deportation” actually works? I assume they aren’t simply shoved back across the border.

    So why in the world would Mexico consent to accept, say, Salvadorans?

  • Gizmo

    Whats supposed to happen when ICE runs out their budget? This particular policy is only going to look worse and worse over time. What’s gonna happen when the Republicans have to pony up the money?

    • CrunchyFrog

      The same thing that happens every time a Republican is president. SPEND! SPEND! SPEND! Deficit trolling is for Democrats, silly.

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