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David Brooks’s Pathetic Iraq Excuses

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dont-look-at-me-i-didnt-do-it

David Brooks starts off his apologia with some stoned-dorm-room stuff about how if Hitler had been strangled in the crib we wouldn’t have the GI Bill or as many women in the workforce, which means that nobody can really held responsible for Iraq. It does not improve from there. First, note this crafty bit of dissembling:

Which brings us to Iraq. From the current vantage point, the decision to go to war was a clear misjudgment, made by President George W. Bush and supported by 72 percent of the American public who were polled at the time. I supported it, too.

The implication is that more than 70% of the public supported the war ex ante. But if you click the link — which readers of the hard copy edition won’t be able to — you’ll see that the 72% approval rate comes from a poll done with the troops already in the field. Before this rally effect, support was significantly lower. A majority of the public still supported the war, but particularly given the post-9/11 context this support was rather tepid. So I’m afraid Brooks can’t brush this off by saying that the consensus was wrong — there was plenty of opposition at the time even as the public was being misled.

It gets worse:

The first obvious lesson is that we should look at intelligence products with a more skeptical eye. There’s a fable going around now that the intelligence about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction was all cooked by political pressure, that there was a big political conspiracy to lie us into war.

That doesn’t gibe with the facts. Anybody conversant with the Robb-Silberman report from 2005 knows that this was a case of human fallibility. This exhaustive, bipartisan commission found “a major intelligence failure”: “The failure was not merely that the Intelligence Community’s assessments were wrong. There were also serious shortcomings in the way these assessments were made and communicated to policy makers.”

As Chait observes, the obvious problem here is that Robb-Silberman was only allowed to go forward on the condition that it would not judge the administration’s responsibility. As he explains the evasion: “Step 1: Prevent a Senate report from looking into whether the administration lied. Step 2: Ignore the existence of the report that did show the administration lied. Step 3: Pretend that an intelligence failure and a deliberate effort to cook the intelligence are mutually exclusive.” When congressional investigators were finally allowed to judge the administration’s culpability, they found them plenty culpable.

In addition, Chait is still being too generous to himself and other supporters of the Iraq War by continuing to use the essentially useless term “weapons of mass destruction.” There was, I agree, some evidence that Iraq possessed some of what were labelled WMD as the term was used, even if the administration exaggerated some of it and made up a lot more of it. What there never was any serious evidence that Iraq had WMDs that would pose any threat to American civilians or more threat to people under Huessein’s control than any number of conventional weapons. And, as always, what Davies said. If you’re a sophisticated observer and were still taking the administration seriously after Colin Powell went to the UN and lied his ass off that’s on you.

After some of the dime-store Brukeanism that Brooks remarkably used to defend the Bush adminisration’s lack of planning, the punchline:

I wind up in a place with less interventionist instincts than where George W. Bush was in 2003, but significantly more interventionist instincts than where President Obama is inclined to be today.

If I understand correctly from the preceding paragraphs, this means that the U.S. should ramp up the killing without even the pretense that it’s bringing democracy with it. I suppose Brooks has learned something, but it’s really not the right lesson.

…Greg Sargent has more on the attempt to whitewash Iraq.

…and see also Maloy.

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  • Hogan

    In addition, Chait is still being too generous to himself . . .

    Should that be Brooks?

    • sparks

      No, if you read the link, Chait said it was not obvious at the time that there were no WMDs. And he is being too generous to himself.

      One reason why I have little use for that creep.

      • Scott Lemieux

        was not obvious at the time that there were no WMDs.

        But that’s not the problem. The problem is that the WMDs that Iraq might plausibly have had did not pose any security threat to the United States.

        • Aaron Morrow

          To be sure, at the time Chait attacked Blix for noting that that “it is conspicuous that so far [U.S. inspectors] have not stumbled upon anything, evidence.” Unfortunately, while Blix was able to tell the difference between suspicions and evidence, Chait could not:

          The reason U.S. troops haven’t yet found anything is that Hussein worked assiduously to hide his proscribed weapons. Iraq moved weapons around the country in tractor-trailers, buried them in out-of-the-way places and so on. The lesson is that finding Hussein’s weapons isn’t as simple as pulling over to the side of the road and peering into suspicious-looking buildings. It requires cracking open the elaborate secrecy apparatus surrounding them. That’s something Blix was never going to be able to do. The difficulty of locating weapons of mass destruction doesn’t prove that inspectors should have been given more time. It proves that inspections could never have worked while Hussein remained in power.

          Awesome unprovable conspiracy theory aside, the fact that Chait still equates his suspicions with evidence is a problem with that story. (The fact that he now equates his opponents’ suspicions with evidence would be amusing out of context.)

          • tsam

            Because mobile weapons labs! (Not the choo choo trains Powell was showing the UN)

          • timb

            So, just so I know, when he said he was wrong and now accepts that “our” analysis was correct, you still dislike him?

            • tsam

              A lot of people are dead because of American punditry helping the administration sell their bullshit. People who lost a father, son, husband, brother–they don’t get to just “move on” and forgive people who enabled this.

              • Cheerful

                And yet for someone so heartily despised, Chait sure gets cited a lot on this blog.

                It seems to be a point of pride for some to never forget and to never forgive.

                • Murc

                  It seems to be a point of pride for some to never forget and to never forgive.

                  It’s less a point of pride than it is an entirely expected consequence of being burned so many times. People become radicalized.

                  Someone who is, say, fifty years old spent their entire politically aware lives seeing the mantras “look forward, not back” and “time to move ahead as a country” used to basically justify letting the vilest criminals and scoundrels in the country walk away scot free.

                  After a certain point, you come to regard either forgiving or forgetting as tricks that people are using to try and get you to do awful things, and that’s because people have been using both those things as tricks to try and get you to do awful things.

                • Cheerful

                  “letting the vilest criminals and scoundrels in the country walk away scot free.”

                  I don’t think you think Chait falls into that category. But I notice many whose anger at those who do tends to slop over.

                • tsam

                  I didn’t lose anybody in this war. Forgiveness isn’t mine to give or hold. But a lot of people all over the world did, and I’m empathizing with them.

                  I don’t give hardly any fucks about Chait or any other individual pundit. It’s when they become part of rushing us into a war, citing reasons that a bit of integrity and research should have cause at LEAST a whole bunch of skepticism about, then I have a real problem with them.

                  ETA: I don’t ever want to look at a fatherless son or daughter and say I ever thought we should have just moved on or that their sacrifice means less than the reputation of a goddamn pundit to me.

                • brad

                  Most of Chait’s daily work is unobjectionable progressive clickbait link cycling. But he wrote that gawdawful piece about the “pc police” making it soooooo hard for us white boys which left a lingering bad taste for many. And some of us weren’t big on him before that. He comes from the DC blogging social circuit, which is a big red flag for me insofar as it strongly suggests he puts career and network connections before principle when it counts.
                  That he was wrong about the war and still clings to semantic arguments so in the back of his mind he can say “yeah, but” is just a small part of it, I think.

                • tsam

                  Also, forgive and forget? What do you think that does for our chances of doing this AGAIN in 10 or 20 years if we just shutup about it–even toward people who only had a tangential connection to it?

                  I don’t want this to happen again. It probably will, but us DFHs have a responsibility to do all the howling and poo flinging we can in an effort stop these dick flexing exercises. Too many people die.

                • Barry_D

                  “It seems to be a point of pride for some to never forget and to never forgive.”

                  If there’s one thing which is not honestly deniable, it’s that these guys should not be forgiven and not be forgotten.

                  These are career swine; the minute that you give them a break they’ll be right back.

                • JR in WV

                  I have seen reasonable estimates that many hundreds of thousands of people have died so far from the disruption our invasion caused in Iraq and the near mid-east. Not to avoid mentioning the thousands of Americans who were KIA and many thousands who were wounded or suffered PTSD.

                  Perhaps worse, our political system was damaged by the necessity of the rulers (of the time) to protect themselves from being attacked for their undeniable mendacity in leading the nation to attack Iraq to “defend us from another 9/11 twin towers attack.” This is unforgivable.

                  They could have prevented the attack if they had not ignored the CIA daily briefing after which President (and shit-head in chief) George W Bush said “Alright, you’ve covered your ass, now go away!”

                  This is after he was told we were likely to be attacked using hi-jacked airliners.

                  Then we were attacked using hi-jacked airliners.

                  I think this makes everything that happened George W. Bush’s fault, and his minions. This needs to be made clear to posterity!!!

                  They allowed that attack to happen (or worse!) and then used it to attack those bastards “who tried to kill my Dad!!!”

                  Never mind the hundreds of thousands doomed to terrible death, never mind the endless war, never mind the evil, “I need to kill the bastard who tried to kill my Dad!” George said to Dick and Rumsfeld.

                • joe from Lowell

                  But a lot of people all over the world did, and I’m empathizing with them.

                  How many of these “people all over the world” have actually discussed Jonathan Chait with you?

                  You aren’t “empathizing” with them; you’re projecting your own politics onto them. I believe the term is “baptizing yourself in the blood of others.”

          • JMaHarry

            Your attack on Chait relies a quote that’s 12 years old. Perhaps you missed his subsequent admission re: the Iraq war:

            “I was wrong about it.”

            He wrote that three years ago. As you apparently spend your time combing through decade-old opinion pieces, I thought this would come as fresh news to you.

      • brad

        Very few who bought the ticket and took the ride back in the day, John Cole quite honorably excepted, did not still kick hippies when they apologized for their massive failures in judgement. Yglesias also comes to mind. They were wrong, but at least they weren’t right for the the right reasons like the damn DFHs.

        They were, and are, serious people. Us swearing fuckers ain’t.

        • Aimai

          My republican sister in law–don’t blame me, its my husband’s family !–argued for the war vociferously before hand, hand on heart she said to me (literally palpitating from emotion) “I do believe the humanitarian goals” (i.e. rape rooms, restore democracy, help the Iraqi people). A couple of years later she leaned over me at a family party and whispered in my ear “You were right about Bush.”

        • rea

          Yglesias also comes to mind.

          My recollection from back at the time was that Yglesias changed his mind about the war before the war actually started. He was also something like 21 years old at the time . . .

          • brad

            Without doing the necessary googling, my memory is he was initially very hawkish then relatively quickly did recognize the mistake, but rather after the invasion.
            You’re right about his youth and I don’t entirely hold the mistake against people that young, but I also remember him pulling some variant of the “at least I wasn’t a hippie” line in an apology for the error. Serious people made an honest mistake, and most of the people who opposed it were just kneejerk antiwar hippie peaceniks pulling a stopped clock routine.

          • Scott Lemieux

            Yeah, Ygelsias has always been clear that he opposed the war for dumb reasons. He’s never been a McArdle “I was wrong for the right reasons” type.

          • Manny Kant

            He was one of a few (Josh Marshall was another, iirc), who changed his mind in about the week or two after Bush forced the inspectors to leave but before the actual attack started. Too little, too late, I’d say, but earlier than a lot of people, certainly.

            • brad

              Fair enough. I’m not trying to imply I think he’s deceitful or hasn’t owned up to having made the mistake in straightforward ways. I could quibble about the nature of his apology inre: DFH logic, but I can’t find the particular piece my memory claims to me exists so I won’t press the matter.

              • brad

                Ahhh, insanely early, so I am perhaps being unfair still holding these worlds too strongly against him, but here we are;

                I will now admit, I was wrong. Neither the policies being advocated by Bush nor the policies being advocated by the anti-war movement (even at its most mainstream) were the correct ones.

                His following apology is quite sincere, and admits personal failings, I don’t mean to ignore that. But it may be fair to say he did not learn as much as could have been hoped from the error.

                • wkiernan

                  That is the most amazing quote! The policy “being advocated by Bush” was “Invade Iraq.” The policy “being advocated by the anti-war movement” was “Do not invade Iraq.” But Yglesias, being smarter than everybody else, knows that neither of these policies was “the correct one.”

                  Well, I don’t know about smarter than everybody else, but he sure must have been a lot smarter than me, because I’m too stupid to even imagine what the third choice after “Invade!” and “No, don’t!” might have been.

  • Murc

    If I understand correctly from the preceding paragraphs, this means that the U.S. should ramp up the killing without even the pretense that it’s bringing democracy with it.

    That’s not just Brooks; that’s the emerging Republican foreign policy consensus.

    Well, I should qualify that. If they end up back in power in 2024 or later, I expect them to simply rely on the short memories of the electorate with regard to foreign adventurism. It didn’t take all that long for the world to change sufficiently that the lessons the country damn well should have learned in Vietnam to became completely irrelevant, after all. So they can just go back to selling war the old-fashioned way.

    If they somehow come back in next year or 2020, though, what I expect is the explicit adoption of the Ledeen Doctrine. People beating the drum for war with Iran, when questioned about why they think the reconstruction there will go any better than it did in Iraq, will simply scoff and say “Reconstruction? We’ve tried to bring the freedoms to those animals, and they proved they didn’t want it. There won’t be a reconstruction. We’ll rip their army apart, flatten Tehran, and come home. If necessary we’ll do that every five years until they get the message. It’s like mowing the grass.”

    • Becker

      From 1975 to 1991: 16 years. From 2009 to 2025: 16 years. Sounds about right for a significant portion of the public to have no memory at all of the last war.

      As with a lot of the readership here, I’m troubled by Obama on some things. But I thank God he’s president when I look at all the people who so desperately want a war with Iran and are working overtime trying to bring it about.

      • Murc

        I’ll be honest, I kind of give Gulf War I a pass. Considering the gang of evil crazies in charge during it, the whole think seems like it was very well-handled.

        • liberalrob

          Well, except for the part where we asked the Shiites to rise up in revolt and then when they did we refused to enforce the no-fly zone while Saddam massacred them with helicopters. (Because Shiites=Iran and we can’t be seen supporting Iran.) Other than that, it went pretty well.

          • Malaclypse

            And the part where we decided a permanent military base in Saudi Arabia would be a good idea.

            • brad

              Well, the Saudi royal family played a major role in that decision, too, not to truly disagree.

        • CP

          What everyone fails to remember about Gulf War I: it was a war that was fought while the country was still under “Vietnam Syndrome” (as the righties love to derisively call it). It was fought for very limited and precisely defined objectives as opposed to open-ended commitments; with overwhelming force committed right from the beginning as opposed to “let’s just wing it;” and with massive international support to make sure it wouldn’t just be us. Vietnam made us cautious and that’s why Kuwait was fought the way it was – and why it was so successful.

          Of course, Kuwait immediately created its own “Kuwait syndrome,” which instead of concluding that America should always fight wars that way, concluded that America was invincible again and only a smelly hippie would ever think otherwise.

      • bowtiejack

        Hey, the Vietnam War cost a lot of money. As has Iraq (trillion+).
        Which means somebody made a LOT of money?
        And imagine the money to be made in Iran (which also has oil).
        Daddy Warbucks may have been a fictional character in Little Orphan Annie, but his real life counterparts are not. Now ask yourself why JFK was killed? Interfering with business maybe?

      • Johnny Sack

        Eh, I think Grenada and Panama and the first Gulf War were all dry runs for a large scale new war. 1991 does not compare to this century’s Iraq war. And the new Iraq war, in terms of lives lost (including civilians of course) still does not compare to Vietnam. It’s not nothing, but it’s not Vietnam.

    • mds

      the lessons the country damn well should have learned in Vietnam

      When you decide to go to war under false pretenses, make sure to pick a country you can actually whip?

      … Wait, sorry, “should have learned.”

      • No, no. When you lie to go to war, keep lying.

      • Aimai

        On the map I guess Iraq looked a lot like Grenada.

        • Hogan

          What do you mean, “scale”? What’s that?

      • so-in-so

        Explains Grenada, and Panama.

      • UserGoogol

        Depends on what you mean by whip. The United States succeeded quite vigorously at overthrowing the regime of Saddam Hussein. So in so far as the enemy was the Ba’ath Party, we whipped them good. The insurgency that followed, on the other hand…

        In the Vietnam War, the United States got directly involved in a conflict we didn’t really have the resources to defeat. In Iraq, we achieved our primary goals quite quickly but then had to spend a decade dealing with the giant mess achieving those goals resulted in.

  • petesh

    So Brooks has finally been provoked into responding to Krugman, eh? And on a subject that is not only in K’s wheelhouse but a real sore spot. Break out the popcorn and have the waaahmbulance all gassed up and ready to roll!

  • Jackdaw

    I’d be more willing to give Brooks a pass if he actually were a tiger-striped kitty.

    • witlesschum

      I know. That cat’s fuzzy, David Brooks is not just non-fuzzy, but anti-fuzzy.

      • I want to tickle this comment’s ears.

        • Aimai

          I want to see it doped up on catnip and then sewn into a bag with a cock, a snake, and a naked David Brooks.

          • Johnny Sack

            a cock, a snake, and a naked David Brooks.

            So…just David Brooks?

            • Aimai

              Yeah, it was kind of just hanging out there waiting for that, JS.

              • Ahuitzotl

                well THATS a mental image I could live without

          • so-in-so

            What, exactly, do you have against cats, rosters and snakes that you would advocate this horrid treatment?

  • Ronan

    In fairness, those polls show a consistent support for the war, and if you go back to Nov 2001 (bottom of)

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/8074/iraq-war-triggers-major-rally-effect.aspx

    they show a similar high level of support for war (74%) before any pro war marketing campaign began.

    • Ronan

      (basically the same link, but the point stands that he was in a pretty strong majority)

      • matt w

        I would call the attempt to blame 9/11 on Saddam Hussein a “major pro-war marketing campaign” that was in full swing by November 2001.

        • Ronan

          i think it’s more plausible that big events (9/11, the start of the war) are more likely responsible for the upswing in support than the marketing campaign

        • Hogan

          It was in full swing on 9/11; I saw James Woolsey on CNN making that claim.

          • Ronan

            yeah, but its unlikely (considering what we know about how much the general public pay attention to politics) that at this stage it had a significant effect in molding public opinion.
            What the polls say to me is that there was an opportunity because of a receptive public, on account of 9/11 and the United States recent history with Iraq, for the Bush admin to go to war in iraq (not that he was overly succesful in manipulating the public, where the majority were already convinced)

            • Hogan

              That’s not paying attention to politics; that’s paying attention to the 9/11 attacks. I’m pretty sure CNN had more than their usual number of viewers that day.

              • Ronan

                What Im saying is mid 50s approval ratings for removing Saddam are pretty constant, even going back to the polls included in that link from 1993. There wasnt a dramatic change in them except for (a) after 9/11 (b) when the war had begun, so there was pretty strong majority support for the war (seemingly) independently of any bullshit the Bush admin was selling.
                Hence, the bullshit the admin was selling probably had little effect on the public (who were already convinced), and was probably more aimed at winning over elites.

                EDIT: Admittedly, this is an expanded on argument than in my initial comment.

                • jim, some guy in iowa

                  From a quick look at those numbers, it seems to me “convinced” is too strong a word to use regarding how the public felt about removing Hussein from power- even when support was at its highest, it wasn’t durable at those levels

                • Ronan

                  No, not at its highest, but there was a consistent strong majority.

                • jim, some guy in iowa

                  if I recall correctly from the time (and I might not, but someone will no doubt straighten me out- I have to go) more detailed questioning about the various costs led to lower levels of support. This is why I am skeptical of using words like “convinced” or “strong” when describing the level of support

                • witlesschum

                  Polling about foreign policy is notoriously soft, because you can often get people to just support whatever it is they think the government wants to do. I think it’s sort of a ‘politics ends at the water’s edge’ type of thing.

                  ETA
                  Point being, I don’t believe there’s evidence there was a demand from the public to launch at aggressive war against Iraq independent of figures in the government calling for one.

                • Ronan

                  witlesschum – Im not saying public opinion drove it, just that it was supportive (or perhaps sympathetic) towards the war (and supportive towards it independently of the marketing campaign the Bush admin waged) And that to have gone to war you had to have somewhat strong public support.

                • ColBatGuano

                  Mild approval (52% to 42%) of the question “Do you support using U.S. ground troops to remove Saddam Hussein from power?” is not a consistent strong majority, especially when it’s completely abstract.

            • After 9/11 a lot of people wanted to “bomb somebody” and I don’t think they really cared who that somebody was.

              Saddam just happened to be the bad-guy du jour at the time.

              To the average American they’re all “those scary brown people over there”.

              • PSP

                “After 9/11 a lot of people wanted to “bomb somebody” and I don’t think they really cared who that somebody was.”

                That. I’m damn sure that I wasn’t the only person who sat there watching CNN on 9-11 wondering who we going to go to war with. All the folks saying “wrong bad guy” and “it was a job for cops, not the army” never had a chance of trumping “someone needs a ass whooping” when the President pointed and said that’s the guy.

                • UncleEbeneezer

                  Also, the media and Right Wing punditocracy had done a great job of priming the pump so that to the average American who doesn’t pay much attention to politics, the assumption was that anything bad that happened in the Middle East just HAD TO involve Saddam Hussein, in some way. Having not really started to follow politics yet on 9/11, I had no idea who OBL or Al Qaeda were. But I knew who Hussein was. And I remember alot of sentiment among people I knew that Hussein had to be dealt with because reasons, even before the selling of the Iraq War had really begun. Iirc, people were calling in to the Howard Stern show as the WTC was burning and saying such. I think that reflected a common view among Americans. If anything, the Bush admin had already PRE-sold the war, even before 9/11.

        • October, 2001. Remember anthrax?

          .

          • Snarki, child of Loki

            Yeah. It’s just amazing how the only targets of anthrax attacks were Senate Democrats and members of the press.

            Must have been Saddam. Everyone knew he had a grudge against the National Enquirer.

    • Scott Lemieux

      Nothing in the link contradicts what I said. There was the support of a tepid majority before the war, and an immediate rally effect once troops were in the field.

    • JustRuss

      Fair enough, but one can’t ignore the fact that between Nov 2001 and the actual invasion, the discussion in our media of whether or not to invade was completely dominated by the pro-invasion side. Yes, Americans wanted to bomb somebody immediately after 911, and Saddam was our go-to bad guy. But you can’t just ignore the fact that the Bush administration and our media did their best to maintain that mindset.

      • Ronan

        i agree with you, I just think the case the Bush admin made had little effect on the public, and the admin was more likely not trying to convince the public (who were already convinced) but other elites (domestic political elites and international elites, ie the UN and potential allies)

        • liberalrob

          the admin was more likely not trying to convince the public (who were already convinced) but other elites (domestic political elites and international elites, ie the UN and potential allies)

          I read it as the Bush Admin trying to head off a growing anti-invasion movement that was starting to pick up some serious steam. Their casus belli was weakening with every day the weapons inspectors failed to find anything, and they knew that their lies about Iraq’s involvement with 9/11 had an extremely short shelf life. They had to go ASAP.

          Of course they could care less what the public at large thought, unless it threatened to interfere with their plans.

    • That 74% is a complete outlier and certainly affected by 9/11. Mostly the war was supported but by much smaller majorities.

  • Derelict

    There is a frantic–indeed, almost panicked–effort on the right to figure what to do about the Iraq War. In 2008, everyone knew Americans were fed-up with it, so no candidate had to address it in any serious way. In 2012, the candidacy of G.I. Luvmoney in the middle of the worst recession in 70 years kept Iraq largely off the table.

    But now we have a situation where the political party that was in power when the war was launched has to convince the voting public that, no matter what your lying eyes tell you, the biggest foreign policy blunder in American history was actually a good thing. This task has become both urgent and of paramount importance now that not only is Jeb Bush in the race, but he’s managed to answer the question four times and get the wrong answer each time. The task facing Republicans now is roughly equivalent to convincing people that a plate of fresh human feces should be washed down with a refreshing glass of mercury.

    • D.N. Nation

      There were some dead-ender hacks in ’08 who were bleating to the very end that McCain Was Right On The Glorious Surge!…and to that I always noted, shoot, if y’all want to keep bringing up McCain and Iraq, y’all go right ahead.

      I recall “Obama’s Iraq pivot” being as integral to the daily Instapundit spew as “Dude, where’s my recession?”.

      • Scott Lemieux

        “Dude, where’s my recession?”

        There’s a line of snark that held up well!

        • D.N. Nation

          Ever so shocked I am that many of the people who were wrong on Iraq were wrong on that one, too. Ever so shocked.

    • mds

      The task facing Republicans now is roughly equivalent to convincing people that a plate of fresh human feces should be washed down with a refreshing glass of mercury.

      So, they’ll hold the states Romney carried, then.

    • It wasn’t a blunder: the entire thing was quite deliberate. Was the war prosecuted badly? Yes, I think that is true, but it is also really besides the point. HRC has said she erred in voting for it, and although I’d certainly be interested in knowing what her analytic process was (and I hope it was something other than, “I’m not going up against the President at this moment because it will piss people off,” I have a hunch that was it.) Bernie, of course, voted against it. The Republican candidates are stuck with two options: I’d have done it differently, or It was a swell plan, but I’d have done it differently. What Brooks is doing is endeavoring to steer the discussion to the former, and it might work.

      • Derelict

        It wasn’t a blunder: the entire thing was quite deliberate.

        Deliberate? Yes. Fucked up in the execution? Sure. Case built entirely on lies? Beyond dispute except in the rightwing Wurlitzer.

        Which kind of goes to the actual point–the Republicans have to convince the public that the steaming pile of shit that is Iraq is somehow tasty, and electing another war-mongering Republican for the glass-o’-mercury chaser is just the palate cleanser we need.

        Just because nailing your own dick to a board is a deliberate act doesn’t make it a non-blunder when evaluating its effects ten years later.

      • timb

        Her process was simple: 11 years ago Democrats voted against invading Iraq and were laughed off the stage in the post-war parades. I’m not gonna be laughed off the stage. After all, how BAD can this end up?

        6 years later…

        oops

      • rea

        HRC has said she erred in voting for it, and although I’d certainly be interested in knowing what her analytic process was

        Well, it was, by her account, an early instance of the “Republicans are sane” fallacy that Obama struggled with so bitterly later. Her explanation, if I recall correctly, was that she expected Bush to use the threat of war to extract concessions from Saddam re: inspections, not actually invade, unless the UN inspectors got him with WMD.

        • Wasn’t that Kerry’s explanation in 2004? I was ready to live with it, but if HRC has taken 10 years to get there that’s kind of a long time.

          • Aimai

            I don’t think she has taken ten years to get there. I think it took Obama longer to realize that he could never have an honest counterparty on the Republican side. But I think both Clinton and Kerry made the mistake at the time, when they took the vote, of deferring to the office of the President. Remember when we used to talk about how politics ends at the waters edge? Both she and Kerry fell for the idea that at some level no serious person would do what Bush and Cheney were about to do because of their foolish respect for the idea of the presidency.

        • tsam

          So…he asked for war powers and she was all stunned and surprised that they used them? k.

      • Johnny Sack

        and I hope it was something other than, “I’m not going up against the President at this moment because it will piss people off,” I have a hunch that was it.

        I’m still supporting her, but it’s probably the biggest shitstain on her record. The fact that dozens of other Senators shared in her ignominy in no way reduces that.

    • cleek

      The task facing Republicans now is roughly equivalent to convincing people that a plate of fresh human feces should be washed down with a refreshing glass of mercury.

      oh, i think it’s going to be much easier than that.

      most* people are going to remember that they supported the war because they were convinced by the evidence at the time. “just like Bush,” the GOP will point out. and as long as the GOP keeps framing it that way, plenty people will forgive anyone who was involved. Joe Public will find it in his heart to forgive himself, and then he’ll forgive most others.

      and, as always, if it starts to look like a left/right issue, the right will know to hold whatever opinion puts them in opposition to the left. they’ll be all like “hell yeah! let’s invade Iraq right now! those WMDs are out there, and ISIS is gonna get em!”

      * – according to polling.

  • bernard

    The 72% figure is even more bogus than you say.

    If you tell people a bunch of lies about a situation, and then ask them whether they approve of a policy that is based on those lies being true, the answers are not meaningful.

    Telling the public that Saddam is a major threat to the US, and that he was involved in the 9/11 attack is a good way to get the public to favor attacking Iraq. Then arguing, as Brooks does, that this proves the attack was justified is both stupid and dishonest.

    • Ronan

      The 72% is more likely attributable to the fact that the poll was taken at the time the war had started. Those in favour didnt change much over the preceding 2 years, even before the selling of the war began, so it’s debatable it hadmuch effect.

      • Aaron Morrow

        You mean the link that argues “Iraq War Triggers Major Rally Effect” doesn’t show a rally effect? Just over 50% or so in an opinion poll isn’t enough to do anything, save win on election day. Over two-thirds of the public agree on a specific issue, and then you need to follow the crowd.

        • Ronan

          yes, as I noted, the war itself provided the rally effect (which Gallup are also saying), but not the marketing leading up to the war, which seems to have had little effect.

          • Aimai

            I’m pretty sure that the many men who signed up to fight Saddam because he was the architect of 9/11 were, in fact, convinced by the blitz of testimony and the drumbeat for war.

            • NonyNony

              Were there a lot of men who signed up to fight Saddam? I don’t remember the lines of guys registering to join the military. In fact I kind of remember W telling us that the best thing we could do was “support the troops” and “buy stuff” (or something to that effect – he said a lot of stupid shit right after 9/11).

              (I do remember my friends in the military going “oh F*CK – these idiots think we can fight two wars at once”. But that’s another story of course.)

            • Ronan

              Im not sure how many this applies to. The ‘surge in enlistments’ after 9/11 is a myth

              http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/sep/8/suddenly-feeling-an-obligation-to-serve/?page=all

              so Id assume those who joined to fight Saddam for revenge is tiny.

              • Aimai

                But of those who did fight in Iraq I believe the majority believed they were taking revenge for 9/11. We had an all volunteer army and it was composed of moslty the same people who always volunteered to fight (with the exception of Pat Tilman) but nevertheless the war was sold to them on the grounds that Saddam was behind 9/11.

            • I remember one demonstration, February 2003, a fairly young white male heckler, shouting over and over again, “What about 9/11?” He was shocked and distressed by all these New Yorkers who apparently didn’t even care about what Saddam had done to their city, and he wouldn’t shut up for long enough for anybody to explain.

              • Aimai

                Yup, this was a routine thing thrown at anti war protestors. It was absolutely taken for granted by the counter protestors/hecklers and pro-military.

      • I had people shortly after 9/11 asking me “When are we attacking Iraq?”.

        • Johnny Sack

          Cynical types? Or just stupid?

    • Who gives a fuck what the American people “think”? What’s the percentage of the morons who believe in “angels”?

      77%, that’s what.

      • I believe in The Los Angeles Angels* of Anaheim, but I don’t trust those fuckers.

        *Shouldn’t that be either Los Los Angeles Angeles or The The Angels Angels?

        • Hogan

          It’s “the La Paloma.”

          • That’s pretty lousy.

        • UncleEbeneezer

          The The would be much better than the music the crap they usually play at Anaheim stadium.

      • UserGoogol

        As an atheist, I really wouldn’t call people who believe in angels morons. Belief in angels doesn’t mean believing in people flying around with wings, it just means believing in a class of supernatural entities who are posited to exist in some form by all of the Abrahamic religions. To a non-believer believing in angels sounds sillier than believing in God, but really it’s the same shit. People really shouldn’t believe in God either, but… there’s tons of reasons why a perfectly non-idiotic person would think God exists anyway.

        • Lee Rudolph

          To a non-believer believing in angels sounds sillier than believing in God, but really it’s the same shit.

          “Same shit, different deity” kind of thing, then?

  • petesh

    Opposing the attack on Afghanistan in late 2001 (as I did) was unpopular: it had 90% support, 5% opposition, per Gallup. But opposing the attack on Iraq in 2003 was much more closely split, in fact only 47% would support it without a Security Council resolution [USA Today 3/16/03, to avoid overlinking].

    There is certainly a rally-round the-flag effect. GWHB benefited from in 1991, getting up to 84% approval [NYT, 1/22/91]. It was, as usual, evanescent. Brooks is cherrypicking, of course, which is to say, lying.

    • liberalrob

      Brooks is trying to rehabilitate Jeb, who is the Very Serious People’s preferred Republican candidate. I don’t care about the “gaffe” Jeb made that the brain-dead media is having a field day with; the bottom line is, as he said, given what (he says he thought) was known at the time he would also have invaded. That’s all you need to know. Because what was “known at the time” is now known to have been known at the time to be bullshit.

      • petesh

        Getting around the city was awfully hard with all those DFHs blocking the streets. Yeah, we knew.

      • I think he has a crush on Rubio, the Young Guns Reformicon artist, but yeah.

      • Johnny Sack

        We as a nation seem to have very serious Daddy issues. We need a big, strong Republican Daddy to pwotect ush fwom the big shkawy world.

        • Hogan

          Because you need me, Springfield. Your guilty conscience may move you to vote Democratic, but deep down you long for a cold-hearted Republican to lower taxes, brutalize criminals, and rule you like a king. That’s why I did this, to save you from yourselves. Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have a city to run.

    • timb

      Can I ask a question, respectfully? How could you oppose an ultimatum and resulting invasion of Afghanistan?

      • petesh

        1. History: I knew very well that it would be at best a quagmire, from the experience of the Soviets, the Brits, and pretty much everyone else.
        2. Negotiations: The Taliban had already bent enough to allow some outsiders in, even reprimanding regional authorities that harassed a Pakistani soccer team. There was a serious chance they would kick Bin Laden out but the klutzes running DC (as usual) screwed up the talks, mostly by avoiding them.
        3. Personal experience: I went there several times in the 1970s and rapidly learned that you do not mess with an Afghan but if you act with respect you can deal.
        4. Tactics: You cannot bomb back to the stone age people who are still (to a significant extent) pretty darn close to the stone age.
        5. Might does not make right, and when the mighty are in fact right, they really need to tread lightly or long-term blowback will ensue.
        Gotta go back to work, but I’m happy to check in later and respond if it’s called for. We woz right!

        • Derelict

          Before 9-11, if you travelled around Afghanistan you could find people who could sing you songs about Alexander the Great, and many of these songs spoke about both Alexander’s accomplishments and how Afghanis would someday avenge the wrongs Alexander committed.

          Any people who can hold a grudge for 5,000 years is certainly not going to forget that you bombed their weddings and funerals last year.

          • The Dark Avenger

            More like 2,400 years, but the greater point stands. They don’t forget.

        • joe from Lowell

          2. Negotiations: The Taliban had already bent enough to allow some outsiders in, even reprimanding regional authorities that harassed a Pakistani soccer team. There was a serious chance they would kick Bin Laden out but the klutzes running DC (as usual) screwed up the talks, mostly by avoiding them.

          This is profoundly silly.

          Osama bin Laden was Mullah Omar’s son-in-law; they had one of those arranged political marriages, in which the Taliban leader married off his daughter to the al Qaeda leader to seal their alliance.

          Bin Laden had been leading al Qaeda as it carried out atrocities against western civilians for years. Omar was fully aware of what he had there, and supported it.

          In addition to being his relative, bin Laden was always the Taliban’s guest. That story about harassing the soccer team? Those soccer players are guests. If you’ve been to Afghanistan like you say, you know how they insist on proper treatment and protection of guests.

          And finally, even the Taliban’s silly offer never included turning him over. The offer was that they would try him in an Islamic court. Yay.

          It’s amazing to me how many people crank up the cynicism to 11 whenever discussing American political figures, but look at the Taliban and figure they’re men of their word.

      • Malaclypse

        1 and 2 were my reasons.

        • timb

          So, I guess, I’ll put this here.

          You guys were wrong. The Taliban would not give up bin Laden. The Pakistanis, their major backers, sold them out to get a better deal with the US.

          Second, we had him and the whole group at Tora Bora and the Bushies botched it. Our tactics were successful.

          The Bushies then took their eyes off the ball and decided to stay. You don’t Great Power wars in Afghanistan. You pay other people to do that (which is, duh, what we finally did).

          In writing this, I am disagreeing with someone whom I never disagree with, but the invasion was the right call and with any sort of competence, would have been successful AND over by 2004. Instead, they botched their goal 1 and then made up a goal 2 (because they needed to stay to keep the Taliban out to save face).

          Then again, with any sort of competence, the whole 9/11 thing could have been avoided and there would be no reason to mess with the Taliban.

          • Malaclypse

            Did invading Afghanistan get us bin Laden?

            The whole world was with us Sept 12. If we asked for a complete embargo of Afghanistan until someone gave us OBL, and offered a few million bucks incentive, he’d have been either in custody or in a box before 2003.

            • timb

              Maybe. I’ll tell you one thing, there’s no reason not to give the Taliban more than 3 weeks we gave them. we could have waited until the next spring to invade.

              then again, political realities being what they are and all, I wonder how much room a good President would have thought he/she had before invading?

              • petesh

                Well, you’ve sort of conceded the point, at least about timing. Could we have come to an accommodation with the Taliban? I think so, you don’t, it’s a counterfactual, we never tried. And we should have done.

                As to tactics, you know what we did first? Cruise missiles. Death from the anonymous air. That flat guaranteed, right off the bat, that in the important geopolitical sense we’d lose; we might have killed Bin Laden but we were just messing up the region even more. And we did. We’re still dealing with the after-effects. But then we’re still dealing with the after-effects of arming the Taliban, not to mention installing the Shah of Iran. Things ripple on for a long time, especially around those parts.

                As to a “good President” — how about not pandering to the worst instincts of the majority? Actually even Bush tried saying some sensible things about Muslims, but he let himself get drowned out by blood lust.

              • PSP

                “I wonder how much room a good President would have thought he/she had before invading?”

                None at all. If Bush had said we know who did it and roughly where he is, but we aren’t going after him for six months, his own party would have impeached him and we would have a President Cheney pledging war right this instant.

                • petesh

                  At a minimum, I’d say that a good President would have engineered a situation in which he won.

            • joe from Lowell

              Did invading Afghanistan get us bin Laden?

              Actually, failing to “invade” with American troops at Tora Bora allowed bin Laden to escape.

          • I for one think you’re at least half right, it could in some better universe have been a not-disgraceful operation, whereas Iraq never could. There was an arguably legal casus belli (not sure how good) and a fairly simple one, and we couldn’t start a civil war because we’d already done that and it was still ongoing. But it was never a good idea or likely to achieve positive results (except in the 2004 elections of course).

      • Johnny Sack

        I’m sure you didn’t mean it like this, but that phrasing brought back some very unpleasant jingoistic memories from earlier in this century.

      • cleek

        my opposition was simple: i assumed that we’d go in there, destroy the place, and leave the survivors to create a few more generations of desperately poor and backwards people who hate America.

        Bush was just months from his “no nation building” campaign, after all.

    • RPorrofatto

      That 47% is the crux of it. Support for the invasion — just days before it — was not only tepid, it was conditional. From the Gallup link:

      If the United States decides not to offer any new resolutions on Iraq and goes forward with military action without a new U.N. vote at all, half of Americans would oppose an invasion of Iraq, while 47% would be in favor.

      Clearly, support would be greater if the United Nations signs off on military action against Iraq, but a majority of Americans still say they favor it if the United Nations does not do so. Only in the case in which the United States essentially decides to bypass the United Nations does less than a majority (47%) favor military action.

      Correct me if I’m wrong, but UN backing was not obtained, and the Bush administration did not seek a final Security Council vote. In other words, the invasion happened under conditions that only 47% of the public supported.

  • My problem continues to be, did the White House intentionally deceive the public, or did they deceive themselves, too? Were they drinking their own Kool-Aid, or cynically manipulating us?

    The answer may be different for different persons (Cheney & Rice, say).

    It’s quaint of me, but before I say the White House “lied,” I want to know what their intent was. If I’m dumb enough to believe this guy is really going to sell us the Brooklyn Bridge, I’m not lying when I ask you to contribute. I’m just a fool.

    • Aimai

      I don’t have this problem. And if you do I think you might want to revisit the famous blog post about “fibber’s forecasts” http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2007/10/five-nomination.html

      In the run up to the Iraq war multiple reasons for the war were given to different constituencies and these reasons seemed, for some people, to be additive. That is: if you didn’t accept one (Iraq was behind 9/11) then you could fall back and accept 2 (Saddam Hussein has WMD and Dronez!) or 3 (“the rape rooms!” The suffering women of Iraq.”). But only in crazy land are multiple, weak, illogical, reasons for a war better than a single strong case. In fact these reasons pretty much canceled each other out when put up against the actual conduct of the war. What I mean by that is the war was fought as though absolutely none of those excuses was true or was believed by the architechts of the war. We didn’t believe that Saddam was behind 9/11, we did not believe he had WMD (because we didn’t furnish our troops with any kind of protection or education about the WMD and we didn’t actually look for them once we got in country) and we didn’t care at all about the civilian population or we would never have named the operation itself “shock and awe” and bombed a civilian populace indiscriminately.

      Certainly I think you might be on solid ground believing that Wolfowitz was stupid enough to believe there were no ethnic divisions in the country, or that Andrew Card hadn’t bothered to do the math to figure out how expensive a couple of days of war would be. But its literally impossible that Bush–whose father and Cheney had orchestrated the previous gulf war, didn’t know just how expensive the war would be and how ethnically riven the Iraq state was.

      • J. Otto Pohl

        The ethnically riven part actually points to the one part of the war that seems to have been successful over the long term. In the wake of the war the Kurdish Regional Government has been consolidated as a politically stable polity whose government and population is extraordinarily pro-American. It may be that because of the US government’s extreme pro-Israeli stance that it is not possible to get any popular support any more among Arabs. But, this does not apply to the Kurds who are ethnically very different from the Arabs.

        • so-in-so

          Had we maintained the no-fly rule in force at the end of the 1st Gulf War and allowed the Shia revolt to take it’s course Saddam might not have been there for a rematch. The only good reason I’ve ever heard for Bush the Elder’s horrible “Let the people of Iraq decide” speech on TV, combined with letting the Iraqi military crush the uprising, was that the neocon’s had the bizarre idea that they could get the military to overthrow Saddam and form a new secular government that “we could deal with”. Plus they all hated the Iranians possibly more than Saddam. Anyway, that’s a big part of why both sides hated us from the get-go after Gulf-war II. having us stand around and watch while the Iraqi military kills 10’s of thousands of Shia civilians has a way of diminishing our appeal. It was also an “intelligence failure”, the one thing Saddam was actually good at was killing off internal opponents, and he had thoroughly purged his military just before invading Kuwait (as widely reported in our own press at the time).

        • catclub

          seems to have been successful over the long term

          I think we can still fuck over the Kurds. Turkey will try hard to push us that way.

      • liberalrob

        But its literally impossible that Bush–whose father and Cheney had orchestrated the previous gulf war, didn’t know just how expensive the war would be and how ethnically riven the Iraq state was.

        Oh come on. The man is a privileged, spoiled dolt who never succeeded at anything on his own except in becoming a tremendous asshole. He couldn’t care less about how expensive war is or about ethnic divisions. He wanted to kick Saddam’s ass and Daddy’s friends made it happen, just like always.

        Once that was done, his interest ended. He didn’t spend any time thinking about how to get Osama bin Laden. Now watch this drive.

        • catclub

          He couldn’t care less about how expensive war is

          Nope, he cared a lot when Shinseki said it would take 200k men and lots of money. They shut that up very fast, so as not to spook the (US) populace.

    • jim, some guy in iowa

      I’d say “both”, with the scale leaning way toward “cynical manipulation”

    • Ronan

      Id also say both. Robert Jervis has made the most convincing case Ive seen that ‘they deceived themselves’.
      Melvyn Leffler has also made it, though stronger and less convincingly

      https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/2011-08-19/september-11-retrospect

      • Ronan

        actually, I wouldnt go as strongly as say both. (i still err on the side of blaming the neocons aspirations to transform the region)
        But I think there’s a convincing enough argument that some in the admin cared about wmds and were convinced by the evidence
        (which, remember, was believed by dems and reps)

        http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp

  • shawn k

    Had the WMDs been the real reason for the war, Bush would have let the inspectors finish their work and postponed or called off the invasion. It was clearly, and obviously a cover for something else. I never felt like oil was a good enough explanation. Instead, I always felt that the war grew out of a series of childish fantasies. We’ll invade, Iraqis will love us, a democracy will spontaneously rise up there, the new America loving democracy will lead to democratic momentum throughout the region which will lead to….BAM the whole region is transformed. Even the Israel/Palestinean conflict will be fixed. It’s not just that each link in the chain was, to put it charitably, highly unlikely. The whole idiotic plan only worked if every single link fell into place, exactly the way it was envisioned.

    My kids were young at the time, and it reminded me of my daughter’s more fantastic plans for how the summer might go- it starts with a new hairstyle and ends up with her as star of the soccer team and loved by all. In her defense, she was 6. There was no excuse for us as a nation carrying out such an impossible “plan”.

    • Linnaeus

      Instead, I always felt that the war grew out of a series of childish fantasies. We’ll invade, Iraqis will love us, a democracy will spontaneously rise up there, the new America loving democracy will lead to democratic momentum throughout the region which will lead to….BAM the whole region is transformed.

      My own view is that the Bush administration wanted to create a reliable and pliable Arab client state in the region, both for reasons of oil and geopolitics.

    • NonyNony

      Instead, I always felt that the war grew out of a series of childish fantasies. We’ll invade, Iraqis will love us, a democracy will spontaneously rise up there, the new America loving democracy will lead to democratic momentum throughout the region which will lead to….BAM the whole region is transformed.

      I’d buy that – except that the whole “democracy promotion” rationale was ex post facto once they couldn’t find WMDs. The original plan was pretty obviously to go in, kill Saddam, prop up a new strongman and leave as quickly as possible.

      I’m convinced there was a childish fantasy involved, though – W and Cheney were convinced that Poppy Bush made the wrong choice in ’91 and that it cost him the ’92 election. W wanted to do what his daddy didn’t and he surrounded himself with people who wanted the same thing. I usually don’t go for the “Great Man” explanation for history but damn in the case of the Iraq War it looks like a really damn good explanation (though in W’s case it would probably be the “Great Fool” explanation for history, I suppose).

    • witlesschum

      I tend to think it was heavily about winning the 2004 election. They knew they only “won” by five votes in 2000 and the were afraid 2004 was too far away from 2001 for Sept. 11 to carry them in, again.

      Political advantage, geopolitics around oil and Israel, hubris, necon ideology, stir and serve.

      • timb

        Halberstam told a story in his Balkans book of W walking through the press plane, crowing about how the American people would never remove a successful war leader in the ’92 election.

        He was a genius back then too

        • Murc

          Was that “War in a Time of Peace?” Amazing book.

      • Johnny Sack

        It’s a shame about 9/11. Definitely in terms of the lives lost, but I also think Bush gets Dukakis’ed in 04 without it.

    • advocatethis

      As simple minded as that scenario seems, it’s really no less sophisticated (or wrong) than the “domino theory” that helped put and keep us in Vietnam. Although the Bush crew was cynical and manipulative, I think the evidence is also pretty strong that they really weren’t very bright or sophisticated…they believed enough of their own bullshit to allow them to sell it sincerely.

    • timb

      The reason was to establish Iraq as a Western friendly export state AND to establish massive permanent military bases in the desert. The Saudis, where we had been since Gulf War 1, were kicking us out.

      In the end, because of the botched aftermath, we did not get those bases. But, they dang well started building them

      • catclub

        The Saudis, where we had been since Gulf War 1, were kicking us out.

        This needs to be brought up more. Bush agreed to withdraw from Iraq by 2011. He was also cowed by al Qaeda to withdraw from Saudi Arabia. (I do not wish it, but it would be funny of Obama got agreements to put troops back in Saudi as part of the Iran deal.)

  • jim, some guy in iowa

    looks a lot like the tub we had in the house when I was a kid

    looks a lot like the cat sleeping in the dog crate at the current time

    thankfully we never had a shower curtain that color, or I would be worrying a little bit about the space-time thing

    • elm

      What if you will have a shower curtain of that color in the future?

  • Snarki, child of Loki

    And all the massive protests, all over the world, did not sway the architects of the Iraq war from their disastrous folly.

    That being the case, it’s just a matter of time until it happens again.

    Next time, I suggest that the protests include “pundit heads on sticks”.

  • gene108

    What there never was any serious evidence that Iraq had WMDs that would pose any threat to American civilians or more threat to people under Huessein’s control than any number of conventional weapons.

    What gets overlooked is (1) they made the WMD claim, (2) got an authorization to use force because of the WMD issue and (3) U.N. inspectors were working there right-up until our troops hit the ground verifying the level of WMD threat Iraq actually posed.

    Even, if you take the WMD threat as credible, Bush & Co. were having the issue resolved by the U.N. inspectors and probably some U.S. inspectors.

    Sure you can talk about the problems of lying about the WMD threat, but the bigger tragedy is that despite the lies, there was a peaceful way to resolve the whole issue; allow the U.N. inspectors to finish their job and issue a report.

    • Aimai

      But…but…mushroom cloud!

    • so-in-so

      I remember clearly the several delays at the behest of the UN, each granted by the administration with much puffing about “but the inspectors won’t find anything, because Saddam is just too diabolically clever for them… We’ll find the WMD after the invasion.” It was pretty darn clear the invasion was a done deal, only the timing was in question.

      I know a few people in the military who still insist “well, of course we found the WMD in Iraq”. To be generous, I suppose they are referring to the old gas shells that eventually turned up.

      • ColBatGuano

        It was the UN inspectors who put me firmly in the “This administration is filled with pathological liars!” camp. The fact that they couldn’t find a single shred of evidence of WMD’s, even when supposedly given access to the best intelligence, told me there was nothing to be found.

      • RPorrofatto

        It was pretty darn clear the invasion was a done deal, only the timing was in question.

        This. The invasion of Iraq was a done deal even before Bush came to power. From the pre-9/11 PNAC letters signed by future Bush administration members, to Rumsfeld noodling Iraq targets on 9/11, they were looking for that “Pearl Harbor” event that would give them cover. Hell, even just from a logistics standpoint, Shock ‘n Awe was in the works many months if not years before the actual invasion. The WMD inspectors, Powell’s show and tell at the U.N., Cheney’s disinformation, etc., ad nauseum, were all theater and distraction. The invasion was going to happen whether a majority of the American people, the U.N. Security Council, or anyone else was against it.

        • so-in-so

          And then we get Rummy’s whine about “going with the Army you have”, which is pretty much the one he had rebuilt…

        • I can’t say for sure, but it was certainly a done deal as of Fall 2002 and probably as early as Spring 2002.

          Certainly the plans had been put together long before then, but that’s when the machinery was actually set in motion.

        • Snarki, child of Loki

          Word is, there was a huge order for “desert cammo” uniforms, Feb 2001, about a month after the Dubya crew moved in.

  • Jay B

    Here’s a simple way to know they are lying — if this cockup was a Intelligence problem, why have NONE of them said we need to massively reform or even abolish the intelligence community? If THEY ineptly led us to an awful blunder (not to mention miss 9/11 completely), where’s the outrage? They don’t talk about our intelligence apparatus because they know it wasn’t the real problem.

    • catclub

      Even now we could ask what intelligence reforms they recommend based on these ‘failures’. Who should be fired? Who should get Presidential Medals?

  • tsam

    For a brief period, 70% of the polled individuals were stupid enough to buy the Bush line, despite Hans Blix’s testimony and even a cursory knowledge of the first war.

    That rapidly changed as the public started realizing they were being dumb and got taken.

  • Rob in CT

    I have zero patience for this.

    I was right back in 2002, and said so. I was not alone, I was not brilliant, nor was I particularly politically engaged at the time. I didn’t have special knowledge about Iraq, the ME region in general, or anything of that nature. And yet that we were being bullshitted was so glaringly obvious that I simply can’t maintain even the pretense of patience for those who bought into it and don’t have the good grace to feel ashamed.

    • tsam

      Yep–I’m not buying the “well they SAID it was dangerous” bullshit either.

      If you supported that war, you were either a sociopathic warfapper or just plain stupid.

      Hans Blix

      The UN

      It was known that we had decimated the Iraqi air force, all of their SCUD infrastructure, degraded the Republican Guard, and already wiped out a bunch of potential WMD targets.

      You don’t have to be a poly-sci major to understand that despotic autocrats DO NOT like religious fanatics because they are a threat to their power.

      You don’t have to be a weapons expert to understand that Powell’s presentation to the UN was nothing but a truck load of bullshit.

      And the biggest tell: WE HAVE TO DO THIS NOW NOW NOW! That’s when I knew they were fucking lying.

    • advocatethis

      I was against the war from the start, but think I tried to keep an open mind to Powell’s UN presentation. When it was over, I thought, “that’s it? That’s the proof?” He had nothing and nobody could have been convinced by that presentation who wasn’t just looking for a rubber stamp for their preexisting beliefs.

  • Johnny Sack

    In a just world, Brooks and Judy Miller (and many others) would be cleaning gas station restrooms with their tongues.

    I’ve thought about it for years and I’m confident that its the best punishment.

    • Aimai

      You are really a much nicer person than I am, Johnny Sack. While I like the duration of the punishment, I think its going a bit easy on them.

      • Johnny Sack

        Well, I try to censor my darker impulses.

        Maybe give them a choice: live in Iraq the rest of your life, with what you helped create. Or, here’s a Norwegian Cruise lines ship after a particularly nasty norovirus outbreak. You can clean every single bathroom with your tongue.

      • He didn’t say their tongues would still be attached inside their mouths…

  • Tracy Lightcap

    Concerning the “intelligence failure”, see:

    http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/aug/19/cia-and-wmds-damning-evidence/

    Yes, Cheney and co. wouldn’t take “there isn’t any evidence” as an answer and rewarded those who went along. Iow, there was an intelligence failure and it was consciously engineered by the administration for other ends. I wrote a book about that, but the short story is that the foreign policy project (the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq) was being used to provide impetus for the domestic policy project (the permanent Republican majority and the demolition of the New Deal legacy). The old saw is true: there is no such thing as foreign policy.

  • ezra abrams

    on wikipedia, a “barnstar” is an award given to to a contributor or editor for good work; barnstars are awarded by other wiki contributors
    there are all diff types of barnstars
    Today, you get the putting in the labor of wading thru muck to bring light to the world barnstar

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