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Posner On the Courts And LBGT Rights

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Richard Posner has a piece arguing that the courts have been essentially irrelevant to the progress made by gays and lesbians in the United States. Longtime readers will not be surprised to find that I find this argument not merely wrong but dumbfounding.

This something that djw and I have had to confront in our project on democratic theory and judicial review, but the extent to which scholars assessing judicial review assume that changes in public opinion can be expected to straightforwardly manifest themselves in “majortitarian” legislatures is baffling. Not only is this assumption wrong, it’s so obviously wrong that I don’t think anybody relying on the assumption would actually defend it independently. Posner can’t think that Congress would quickly repeal DOMA had the courts upheld it — but his argument is nonsensical without the assumption.

There’s one additional argument Posner makes that I didn’t get to but is worth addressing:

If there was a backlash to Lawrence, it was slight, because Lawrence wasn’t that big of a deal. For by 2003, there was virtually no enforcement of laws against homosexual sex, just as there was virtually no enforcement of the criminal laws, which are still on the books in many states, against adultery and fornication.

This the same fallacy that can be seen (as I’ve pointed out before) in Potter Stewart’s Griswold dissent. Connecticut’s ban on the use of contraception, Stewart asserted, was “obviously unenforceable.” On one literal level, this is true — in 1965 the police were not invading people’s homes and arresting them for using contraception. But in a much more important level, it is clearly false. The relevant metric is not how many people were arrested for using contraception but how many Planned Parenthood clinics were operating in Connecticut in 1965 — i.e. “none.” The ban on contraception did not prevent married couples as a class from using contraception, but it did prevent people without private doctors from obtaining free or subsidized contraception because such clinics could not operate openly. So Griswold mattered, and its effects are a powerful defense of its holding.

The same thing is true of Lawrence. It is absolutely true that even in Texas bans on “sodomy” were almost never applied against adults having consensual sexual relations. (This helps to explain the unusual facts of the case — the plaintiffs who brought the challenge almost certainly didn’t actually violate the statute.) But this doesn’t mean that Lawrence was irrelevant. Bowers had all kinds of awful ancillary effects in areas such as family law; bans on “sodomy” may not have prevented gays and lesbians from having sex with each other but in many states it mate it harder for them to adopt children and imposed other legal disabilities. Lawrence was very important for reasons that extends well beyond the narrow language of the statute it struck down, and it would have been enormously difficult to achieve these gains without the intervention of the Supreme Court (and, conversely, the Supreme Court’s approval of such discrimination in Bowers had a powerful negative impact.)

The courts don’t do a great deal to determine the underlying cultural context in which politics happens, but the same basic configuration of public opinion can produce very different policy results. It’s here were the courts matter, and it’s the failure to take this into account where the arguments made by Posner (and many other scholars and pundits) fail.

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  • JMP

    But of course Lawrencedoesn’t matter, and all those states with anti-sodomy laws would have repealed them in the long eternity of a decade since it was decided anyway; I mean it’s not like a candidate for governor in Virginia right now is promising to re-instate banning oral and anal sex despite the unconstitutionaly or anything. Just like all the states would have legalized abortion on their own without Roe v. Wade!

  • Yeah, Posner’s argument is a direct outgrowth of his broader framework of morality, how moral change happens, and the mechanisms involved in courts enforcing that change. So what with forcing an empirical example to an already-existing abstract framework, and his sometimes-cavalier attitude toward actual facts, it’s not surprising the piece isn’t that rigorous.

    For anyone interested in this stuff, this lecture is pure mind-candy: Richard Rorty explaining why Posner’s broader framework is wrong.

    Posner also wrote a book focused on these things, The Problematics of Moral and Legal Theory, which is hilariously scattershot, and it seems like he wrote it just so he could be snippy against Dworkin.

  • [Sigh] “That court case was completely unnecessary [and might have hurt your cause],” is old school concern trolling.

    He seems to think it is very important that we know laws that specifically punished gays and lesbians were rarely or sporadically enforced [needs citations]. Because being uncertain about whether you’ll get arrested added a frisson of excitement to the day, does it not?

    Blah. I do salute you for reading this drivel.

    If Posner isn’t gay (and his use of the word Homosexual makes me a tad skeptical) this is the most dazzling display of Neutral Straightsplanation I have seen in a while. (Vs. Hostile Straightsplanation such as Bryan Fischer explaining that all gay men live to forcibly sodomize Marines.)

    • Origami Isopod

      “That court case was completely unnecessary [and might have hurt your cause],” is old school concern trolling.

      “If only you could be nicer when you ask us to take our boots off your necks…”

      and his use of the word Homosexual makes me a tad skeptical

      That jumped out at me too.

      • “If only you could be nicer when you ask us to take our boots off your necks…”

        Ask?!? No, no, no, no, no. To speak without being spoken too is the height of incivility.

        I’ve read articles about GLB issues written by gay or lesbian authors than use the words gay/lesbian 50% less than he used the word homosexual. What, was he worried we would forget who the article was about?

    • Cody

      Does Posner in general support laws that are written without clear enforcement in mind?

      Ones that almost seem to AIM at being enforced selectively?

  • I remember reading an extremely funny piece attacking Posner, I thought it was by Nussbaum but I can’t find it. I refuse, and have refused for many years, to read anything by Posner because he’s such an egregious asshole and any time he asserts anything about the real world or something I happen already to know about he’s just jaw droppingly wrong. The thing I particularly remember, because I actually had to sit through it when I was in Chicago and used to go to this sort of talk, was his insistence that there could “be no problem of rape” in the black community because, since a high proportion of black men were (presumably) incarcerated there were more than enough women to go around for the ones who weren’t in jail. I think my jaw is probably still on the floor, under some chairs, back at the auditorium at Northwestern.

  • joe from Lowell

    Posner writes an entire piece about the relationship between courts and public opinion on gay rights, and doesn’t mention Goodridge vs. Department of Public Health?

    I live in Massachusetts. I watched public opinion change as people watched married same-sex couples pop up in their neighborhoods and workplaces. I watched the efforts to create a backlash peter out.

    Posner ignores the very real consequences of judicial rulings – the marriages that happen, the white and black kids that sit next to each other in school – and the effects those changes have on people.

    • MAJeff

      Posher lives in an abstract, not actual, world.

      • joe from Lowell

        That’s it, isn’t it?

        The piece of paper released by the court didn’t change anyone’s heart, so end of story.

        • The piece of paper released by the court didn’t change anyonePosner’s heart, so end of story.

          Fxd.

        • MAJeff

          He reminds me of a libertarian: reality need not interfere with conceptual TRUTH.

    • C

      Posner does mention Goodridge and says it is probably the judicial decision that had the most impact.

  • MAJeff

    Bowers had all kinds of awful ancillary effects in areas such as family law; bans on “sodomy” may not have prevented gays and lesbians from having sex with each other but in many states it mate it harder for them to adopt children and imposed other legal disabilities

    It also made it more likely they would lose their own biological children, as with the VA Supreme Court taking away Sharon Bottoms’s child.

    • Pat

      Lynn Conway gave up her daughters. There was never any thought that she could have a normal relationship with them once she stopped being a boy.

      • Stoney Burke

        There was never any thought that she could have a normal relationship with them once she stopped being a boy.

        I can’t have a ‘normal’ relationship because…well, I’m just not that normal anymore….

  • Pat

    Court rulings, especially Supreme Court rulings, bespeak authority. You would think that a federal judge would understand that.

    People become unafraid to live their lives after authority speaks out on their behalf. Then things change.

    • philadelphialawyer

      Exactly!

  • If this is true why rule at all, on anything? Doesn’t this go double and triple for property rights cases? If everyone is always going to do what they were going to do anyway then why have courts rule?

  • Glenn

    Posner’s argument is, at best, facetious.

    • Scott Lemieux

      I see what you did there.

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  • philadelphialawyer

    Pretty Ricky Poseur, like so many on the right and/or in the “law and economics school,” is an idiot. That’s not surprising, I guess, yet idiots of both persuasions are so often held up as paragons of intellect that some people get confused or bamboozled, until they actually read what these brilliant “intellectuals” write.

    On the merits, he is totally wrong. What works in terms of social change is a strategy of relentless offensives in all areas. With the CRM, yes the NAACP decades long judicial strategy, but also the SCLC and SNCC direct action branch. And lobbying for Federal legislation, and change at the State and local levels. And the Black Panthers. And the Deacons. Etc, etc. Push forward on every front, not just one or two. Educate, lobby, sue, demonstrate, write letters, write books, take photos, document, protest, register voters, etc, etc.

    Same with SSM and GLBT rights generally. Litigation like Lawrence helps. As does efforts in the State courts based on State constitutions. And Federal litigation too. And lobbying at all levels, from the local to the international. Protests and boycotts of open bigots. And so on. From Harvey Milk calling for folks to “Come out” to the oft-mocked but actually quite effective over time “political correctness” campaigns to marginalize bigots in schools, at the workplace, in the media, among celebrities and so on. All of it helps, and all of it reinforces the other parts. Attack on all fronts and damn the “backlash!”

    Of course legal decisions (and legislative ones too) entirely divorced from social change are not the answer. But, in our society, where there are no institutions higher than the law (no monarchy, no established church, no one “nationality”), the law matters a lot and is not divorced from socity. What is said in a court is quoted in the workplace, the school, and even at the dinner table and in the barroom. And what is held to be against the law and specifically against the Constitution (and even more particularly against the parts of it designed to uphold rights, like the First Amendment, the Equal Protection Clause, and the Due Process Clauses) is seen as morally bad, if there is any case at all for that view.

    When Dr. King said:

    “We are not wrong, we are not wrong in what we are doing. If we are wrong, the Supreme Court of this nation is wrong. If we are wrong, the Constitution of the United States is wrong. And if we are wrong, God Almighty is wrong. If we are wrong, Jesus of Nazareth was merely a utopian dreamer that never came down to Earth. If we are wrong, justice is a lie, love has no meaning. And we are determined here in Montgomery to work and fight until ‘justice runs down like water, and righteousness like a mighty stream.'”

    to the Montgomery Improvement Association scarcely a year after Brown v Board of Ed, that had power and force. He knew what he was doing by starting with legality and constitutionality,the Court and the Constitution, and then moving to the moral authority of religion and abstract qualities like justice and righteousness and emotions like love.

  • Strepsi

    Lawrence had no effect??!!! Here’s a quote from Mildred Loving’s wikipedia entry that gets to the heart of it:

    “At the age of 18, Mildred became pregnant, and in June 1958 the couple traveled to Washington, D.C. to marry, thereby evading Virginia’s Racial Integrity Act of 1924, which made interracial marriage a crime. They returned to the small town of Central Point, Virginia. Based on an anonymous tip,[8] local police raided their home at night, hoping to find them having sex, which was also a crime according to Virginia law.”

    In other words, just like miscegenation laws, Sodomy laws are used in myriad ways to terrorize, disenfranchize and criminalize a minority class of society. Getting rid of them is HUGE.

  • mike/

    i am not a lawyer. i have not studied law for a degree. i have been more than interested in it because i focused on Constitutional History at university & it fascinates me.

    i went into Education at the classroom & school level; i had to do a lot a statistical work and one thing i learned is that you can make statistics say just about whatever you want them to.

    over the years, i’ve come to the same conclusion about law. depending on the law, the lawyer, the court, etc. it too can say whatever one wants it too. ergo, nothing in either statistics or law is sacrosanct; it depends on who is saying it and who is listening to it.

    • Sharculese

      This is true up to a point, but for Posner to have a leg to stand on you have to pretend that Bottoms v. Bottoms, Shahar v. Bowers, and a ton of other odious cases didn’t happen.

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