The Guilt-By-The-Most-Tenuous-Association Gambit
In comments, embarking on the futile quest to develop an ex post facto rationale for outrage over the Burlington Coat Factory community center that sounds non-discriminatory, the Sanity Inspector argues:
If it helps, think of this analogy: In order to build bridges with Vietnam, signaling a new era of friendship and bridge-building with them, let’s put up a statue of General Westmoreland next to their war memorial in Hanoi.
It does, if not in the way that Mr. Inspector intends. I assume most of you who are seeing this for the first time can sport the glaring fallacy here. General Westmoreland was actually personally responsible in some respect for the death of many Vietnemese citizens. Feisal Abdul Rauf had absolutely nothing to do with the 9/11 terrorist attacks. So the analogy is transparently specious, and this goes for all of the variants, up to and including Newt Gingrich’s “Nazi sign next to the Holcaust museum” crap.
Given that they’re based on guilt-by-association, in other words, these analogies merely reaffirm that opposition to Park51 is driven pretty much exclusively by religious discrimination and bigotry. As I’ve said before, I’ll take such arguments seriously as soon as the people making them start arguing that no Christian churches be permitted within some arbitrary radius of any medical facility, lest women be reminded of Scott Roeder’s religiously motivated terrorism.
Heck, you know what, I’ll see the Westmoreland proposal and go one better; lets put up a statue of George Washington in Trafalgar Square! Right across from Nelson, so they can totally look each other in the eye. Let’s throw in Lafayette too, because hell, we’re all buddies now, right?
Oh, I kid because I love.
More seriously, I give Sanity Inspector some points for taking the ‘some people are grieved, GRIEVED I say, by this community center’ tack. It’s not really any more legitimate in this instance, but it is marginally more defensible than ‘Muslims, BAD.’
I’ll take the opponents of Park51 and their apologists seriously when they stop arguing by analogy and generalization and speak directly with (not at) the people behind Park51.
“that no Christian churches not be permitted”
Perhaps an extra negative snuck in there.
Heck, you know what, I’ll see the Westmoreland proposal and go one better; lets put up a statue of George Washington in Trafalgar Square! Right across from Nelson, so they can totally look each other in the eye
Yes, that one’s always puzzled me, to be honest. Apparently a gift from the state of Virginia. Bit of a strange gift.
Nelson’s actually got his back to Washington. The equestrian George III is just down the road, though.
… well played sir. Well. Played. From now on I check the Googles before trying to be that snarky and looking like a total fool.
I honestly thought you knew that already, which was why you mentioned that particular example…
I did not, actually. I was trying to be really tongue in cheek. And failing.
It’s both surprising and gratifying to me that the Brits both accepted the gift and put it up. Even if it was a hundred and fifty years after the Revolution, and a hundred and ten after the last British/American War, it seems weird to me.
Put it another way; I’m pretty sure if the British gave us a statue of Lord Cornwallis, we wouldn’t put it up on the Mall, and if a group were to try, there’d likely be outcry. So… yeah.
And this just goes to show that the Burlington Mosque would be capitulation! The American declaration of victory in the holiest of British imperial landscapes led directly to the fall of the British Empire!
Ah, not quite, Fats. The Washington statue arrived in 1921. America became Top Nation (and 100%, etc.) three years previously, after the end of the Great War.
I’ll actually argue that one; in 1921, the British Empire was at its greatest extent; it still held India, it hadn’t yet let Canada and Australia go, vast holdings in Africa, etc etc.
So CLEARLY, George’s baleful gaze so intimidated the British that it is what led to the Anglo-Irish Treaty, the Balfour Declaration, and the Statute of Westminster. Wake up, people! If we let Park51 get built, we’ll be giving Florida back to the Spanish! Oklahoma back to Texas! Texas back to Mexico! Mexico back to FRANCE! It’s all a grand tapestry!
Sorry, Murc, but I’ve got the Greatest History Book Ever Written on my side here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1066_and_All_That
To quote the final chapter in its entirety:
A Bad Thing
America was thus clearly top nation, and History came to a .
Any comment thread where 1066 And All That is quoted is obviously A Good Thing.
Thank you for that!
I see two:
1. Vietnam is a sovereign nation so if citizens of the U.S. started erecting statues over there, those U.S. citizens would – at the very least – be stupid dicks.
2. There’s no comparison between U.S. citizens operating in a foreign country and the acts of U.S. citizens in the U.S., unless you’re laboring under the premise that some U.S. citizens are less citizeny than others due to their religion.
What do I win?
Please, this is “Let’s build a church next to Mecca!” in a fake mustache.
About that guilt by association – remember the clamor for gun control after the Columbine shootings in 1999? There was, and there would have been a majority for it, but by God, the 2nd Amendment could not be breached. I think this is a relevant analogy as we are dealing with fundamental rights that are not subject to majority rule here.
Jon Stewart made this point week before last.
with the great line about it being legal to build a catholic church near an elementary school but isn’t it too soon ?
Yes, but the not-mosque at not-Ground Zero isn’t a monument to Feisal Abdul Rauf, it’s a monument to Allah. And Allah is responsible for 9/11. And the Lisbon earthquake of 1755. And fluoride in the water. And raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens. And bright copper kettles and warm woolen mittens.
What was I saying? Oh, yes, in conclusion, it’s all Obama’s fault. Thank you.
The internet you have won is being sent to you in a brown paper package tied up with string.
I believe that is central to his point.
Christ. We can build the community center, not build it, tear down the White House and build a replica of tha Kabba, set our hair on fire and punch ourselves in the crotch, and bin Laden is still going to hate us. And until we stop meddling in the Middle East (don’t hold your breath) he and his little friends aren’t going to stop.
People who don’t want it built either (a) think they they have a right to not have their fee-fees hurt, or (b) imagine we’d be better off without that pesky Constitution protecting people’s rights. It’s not like there’s a shortage of despotic or theocratic hellholes on this planet–why don’t they go give one of them a try first before trashing this country?
From Malcolm in the Middle:
“If we’d had your mother in ‘Nam, there’d be a McDonald’s in Ho Chi Minh Square.”
“Dude, there *is* a McDonald’s in Ho Chi Minh Square.”
“Really? . . . All right!” [fist bump]
Has anybody tried the “the local government, the one closest to the people, has already made the decision, so shut up” argument?
That just proves that NYC’s gubbermint hates the victims of the Sept. 11th attacks. Therefore it’s up to concerned citizens who couldn’t find Manhattan on a map if you circled it in bright pink highligher to protect the victims’ sacred remains from further disgrace at the hands of the filthy liberal elitist scum of NYC such as Mayor Bloomberg.
I think that Norbizness is making the salient point that suddenly conservatives aren’t all about local politics and states’ rights. Not when it’s a blue state!
We should ban all Catholic churches within 1/2 mile of elementary and secondary schools, as well as health care providers.
There is no constitutional right to having your irrational fears meticulously indulged.
I’m sure the Native Americans living near Custer State Park and Mount Rushmore find this all very amusing.
Heck, at least Custer lost, and the guys carved into Mount Rushmore weren’t the worst offenders – but imagine how they feel about every single 20-dollar bill, the staple of our ATM machines!
I was under the impression that Westmoreland’s mis-management and dishonesty played a central role in the victory of the Vietnamese Revolution, so erecting a statue of him in Hanoi would be fitting, if awfully snarky.
Has anyone suggested erecting a status of Lenin in Seattle?