Home / General / “You’ve got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know… morons.”

“You’ve got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know… morons.”

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I know we are surrounded by low information voters and said voters are not too bright or interested. Alas, such is the majority of the population. But this story of a woman who voted for Trump despite being married to an undocumented immigrant from Mexico and whose husband has now been deported is just so beyond anything I can handle right now. What does one even do with this story?

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  • rachelmap

    I’m doing everything I can to suppress the urge to point, mock, jeer and taunt.

    • soapdish

      It’s the only thing that works with them. Point away!

      • Snarki, child of Loki

        Oh, come on…there are things that sympathetic liberals can do for Ms. Beristain in her hour of despair.

        Like, we can all chip in to buy her (and kids!) a one-way ticket to Mexico, complete with “passport confiscation” when they get there. No need to break up that loving family!

        Kickstarter, amirite?

    • Marlowe

      I’m doing nothing of the kind. No sympathy, only schadenfreude. That’s what they deserve. And all of the commentators begging us to understand this motley collection of ignoramuses, idiots, morons, racists, xenophobes, and plain soulless Randites can get stuffed. Including the ultra annoying Nick Kristof, who just published another chapter in his endless, self-parodying defense of these people, which I refused to read.

      • EvanHarper

        Look it is clearly just not true that marginal Trump voters, as opposes to MAGA chuds, are fanatic soulless xenophobe Randites. These people did an awful thing for which they bear significant responsibility and they never would have done it if they’d had the proper level of empathy for people not like them. But their failings are of an ordinary sort. I’m not even saying, like, don’t hate them: hate them if you want. But hate them for what they are, not your misconception of them.

        • efgoldman

          hate them for what they are, not your misconception of them.

          Meh. Once you’ve decided to hate them and/or dismiss them, it doesn’t make a whole hell of a lot of difference why.

          • EvanHarper

            I mean I hate ordinary people but I don’t hate them in the way I hate, like, Cernovich. It seems an important distinction.

        • cpinva

          “Look it is clearly just not true that marginal Trump voters, as opposes to MAGA chuds, are fanatic soulless xenophobe Randites. These people did an awful thing for which they bear significant responsibility and they never would have done it if they’d had the proper level of empathy for people not like them. But their failings are of an ordinary sort. I’m not even saying, like, don’t hate them: hate them if you want. But hate them for what they are, not your misconception of them.”

          a man came to them, with a smile on his face told them he was racist/xenophobic/homophobic/misogynistic/anti-Semitic. he then asked them to vote for him. he seems nice they said, such a lovely smile said the wife, such nice hair said the husband, he says out loud what we’ve been thinking said both of them. the wife voted for him. the husband, an undocumented immigrant, urged his wife to vote for the man. the man won.

          two months after the man took office, the husband was detained and deported, because that’s what the man said he would do, if they, and enough other people voted for him. the wife was shocked. why was the wife shocked, people asked? because said the wife, just because the man told us he was all those horrible things, and we supported all of those horrible things, for other people, we didn’t think he would actually do all of those horrible things to us. because we are special snowflakes.

          the husband and wife are very, very, very stupid and vain people, who voted for someone also stupid and vain, but also mean and nasty, and were surprised when he acted mean and nasty. I have no fucks or sympathy for them, and all others like them. they, and their fellows, got the government they deserved.

          • Derelict

            “I’m voting for Trump because he’s not a politician! He says it like it is, so I can trust what he says. Not like that Hillary!”

            6 months later: “OMFG! Trump is doing all these things and he’s deporting my husband!”

            Well, he said he would do that.

            “Yeah, but he’s a politician and we all know politicians lie to get elected. So I never thought he actually meant it!”

            But isn’t that why you voted for him? Because he’s not a politician and you could trust what he said?

            “Yeah, but not this!

          • vic rattlehead

            Well, the husband couldn’t have voted (at least not legally) since he was not a citizen of the United States.

            • vic rattlehead

              I’m an idiot and in my rush to nitpick I didn’t read the comment carefully.

            • JR in WV

              When I registered to vote, they were interested in my address, to be sure they got me into the correct precinct. I did not show a passport or other National Identification Card which would prove citizenship, at all.

              So if he was being civic-minded (HAHAHA) he could probably easily voted, as most people around him probably assumed he was a citizen, and were shocked when he proved to be an ILLEGAL ALIEN and was taken into custody by ICE.

        • Marlowe

          they never would have done it if they’d had the proper level of empathy for people not like them

          What a crock of shit! [P]roper level of empathy for people not like them? In the aggregate, people voted for Der Drumofenfuhrer precisely because they hate people who are not like them. Ad even if they die unemployed, homeless, and sick, they’ll dies happy knowing that “those people” are being denied public benefits or being roughed up and deported by the ICE Gestapo. Whiteness Uber Alles!

          • Marlowe

            Oh, and for fuck’s sake, restore the Edit button!

            • ExpatChad

              +++Ibid!

      • pianomover

        “Schadenfreude” sung to the tune of “All of Me”

  • Mike Furlan

    Maybe she just wanted her husband gone?

    • cpinva

      “Maybe she just wanted her husband gone?”

      possibly so. of course, why not go the total route: buy life insurance on him, then have him die in a horrible, yet completely unforeseeable accident? seems much more profitable.

      • searcher

        Is there deportation insurance?

        • N__B

          Yes, with double indemnity if the husband is brown.

          • Hogan

            Next thing you know she’ll be meeting Fred MacMurray at the grocery store.

  • Q.E.Dumbass

    …and sacrificed your fuckin’ family; that’s betrayal.

    • CrunchyFrog

      No, it’s the same story.

      I know I said I want those dirty filthy Mexicans out of here. But I didn’t mean MY husband – he’s one of the nice ones.

      I know I said I want to stop spending tax money on moochers on Obamacare. But I didn’t mean MY Obamacare – I meant those other people.

      I know I said they should stop abortions for sluts. But I didn’t mean ME – I’m not a slut like those others.

      I know I said I wanted them to stop food stamps for lazy people. But I didn’t mean MY maid and gardener, who have since moved and I can’t get a replacement. I meant the really lazy ones.

      I know I said I wanted to get rid of the EPA because it’s a bunch of liberal tree-huggers. But I didn’t mean for them to allow raw sewage to be dumped in MY creek or coal pollution over MY house.

      I know I said I wanted a government shutdown to show how useless it is. But I didn’t mean for MY farm subsidies to go unpaid.

      I know I said we have to cut government programs. But I didn’t mean MY Medicare drug benefit – I meant Obamaphones.

      You see, it’s ME. I’M different. I’m not like all those other lazy no good criminal moochers. I actually hold a job. Or sometimes anyway. And I’m responsible. Well, mostly. I never rely on the government at all. Not here in my job in Cheyenne, WY / Arlington, VA. Nope not me.

      • ExpatJK

        Yes this, thank you.

        Basically, “The only moral abortion is my abortion” (a very good article). The only moral X is my X. Etc etc…

        • Dennis Orphen

          More specifically, “I’m against abortion but when I have my unplanned children society must foot the bill.”

          • ExpatJK

            That too, but the article had several examples of anti-choice activists (recognised as such by clinic staff since they regularly picketed the clinic) turning up and then returning to protesting as soon as they could afterwards.

            • Dennis Orphen

              Anecdotally, I’ve noticed a strong guilt factor in some women’s anti-abortion stance.

              • cpinva

                “Anecdotally, I’ve noticed a strong guilt factor in some women’s anti-abortion stance.”

                which may explain their anti-choice stance: an attempt to assuage the guilt they feel over their own abortion, and its violation of their religious teachings.

                • Its really common for people who feel they have sinned and seen the light to attempt to cut short the process for other people and save the from sinning in the first place. Conversion narratives often start with “I was a sinner once, like you” and they aren’t always insincere or fake. The part that is even more standardized is that authoritarians can’t bear the thought that other people are entitled to autonomy–they don’t believe that people have to be free to make their own choices, even if those choices are “wrong” in some sense. And that is at the root of the reason that someone can have had an abortion, repented, and then decided that they need to make sure no one else gets one. Its not because abortion was inconceivable (as it were) to them, its because they believe its an all too tempting reality for everyone.

                  This goes hand in hand with the authoritarian/conservative insistence (as long as they don’t apply to them) of the rules and laws of the bible. The idea is that without explicit rules and punishments people would all be murderers and thieves.

                • Karen24

                  And, in response to Aimai and cpinva, this explains why so many homophobes get caught in gay sex scandals.

                • This is a pretty reasonable reaction–within limits–in a traditional society.

                  It has obvious problems when democratic action becomes a possibility and you have to find a way to persuade people that their intense emotional feelings about how they and they, and their actions, fit into the world, doesn’t justify their blocking doors and throwing things at people–or when the solution they’ve found for themselves personally involves the belief that their own sin was caused by “society” and they have the ability to take action on that.

                  I suppose this works on the left, too, and may not always be a bad thing. But again there are limits.

                • And also can shortcut people’s ability to get mental health services before too much damage has been done.

              • pianomover

                “If you need an abortion you should definitely get one” Louis CK

      • “I never thought leopards would eat MY face,” sobs woman who voted for Leopards Eating People’s Faces Party.

        • Mike G

          “I wanted a sadistic asshole in charge, but he was only supposed to hurt those other people”

      • Q.E.Dumbass

        Yes yo all this, but it was actually a Gang Starr/Scarface (the guy from Geto Boys( reference.

      • Srsly Dad Y

        I finally realized during this election that when a lot of people say, “I only want what’s best for me and my family,” which at first sounds reasonable, they actually mean every word literally, including the “only.”

      • haroldo

        May I steal this? It’s stunningly accurate.

        • ExpatChad

          YES!!!

  • NBarnes

    Shame about the kids, having a gullible moron for a mother like that. They don’t deserve any of this.

    • Interesting that they didn’t take pity on, or think that their children would be considered, the children of illegal immigrants. Its a complete failure of imagination.

    • UncleEbeneezer

      Yesterday some activists got together to meet with our Supervisor urging them not to pass a bill that will create a carve-out that would exclude undocumented citizens with felony records from having access to the LA Justice Fund (recently created to provide legal services to undocumented Los Angelenos.) There were a couple immigration attorneys in the group and they noted that in their experience usually the family of the person getting deported, goes with them for reasons of logistics, support, finances etc. The “breaking up” of families is less common than the whole family leaving together (often to a country that they may not have visited in decades and is truly foreign to them.)

  • Murc

    What does one even do with this story?

    Take refuge in the “X is an outlier and should not have been counted” meme.

    Also bourbon. Or other brown liquors.

    • Harkov311

      Yes. And yes. Though I prefer absinthe for this level of self-pwnage.

      • ExpatChad

        Beats abstinence.

  • Brien Jackson

    Well look, The Undefeated published a dumb article about how The Rock making lots of money was racist microaggressions, so really she has no choice but to vote for Nazis.

    • LosGatosCA

      Your command of her mental fluency issues is truly scary.

  • keta

    Are ICE agents getting a per-head fee for deportations? I ask because this bit really stood out for me:

    Mr. Ansari — who has been helping the family and has assembled a team of immigration lawyers to provide them counsel — said the deportation was unlawful and a surprise because the lawyers had several pending motions on behalf of Mr. Beristain, which were being relayed to immigration officials.

    “Unbeknownst to us, during the same exact time we were talking to immigration officials, they were shuffling him off to Mexico,” Mr. Ansari said on Thursday, adding that the lawyers were not aware that Mr. Beristain had been taken to Mexico until they received a call from Ms. Beristain. She received no information from immigration officials, Mr. Ansari said.

    It seems the deportation was rather hasty. So was this just another bureaucratic fuck-up or is ICE hustling folks like this out of country because they’re being rewarded per-deport in some way?

    • I think ICE just doesn’t give a shit about the law or process. It’s basically a fascist organization.

      • LosGatosCA

        Isn’t every military and paramilitary organization?

        Whatever they think their purpose is in a democracy, they clearly think that the only way they can fulfill it is by brutalizing the vulnerable.

        • CrunchyFrog

          No, ICE is far worse, and there have been plenty of posts here documenting this. Sure, most people signing up for the military have authoritarian tendencies (there are exceptions, usually economic). But who do you think goes out of their way to apply to ICE or CBP? Even ATF and DEA, which are pretty bad, don’t get the really bad types who just want to take it out on non-whites.

          • LosGatosCA

            I wasn’t actually thinking of the other federal entities you mentioned. I was thinking more like NYC where the police turned their back on the mayor, or Chicago where the cops had their own dark site, or most every other jurisdiction where the cops believe they are above and beyond the law.

            I don’t dispute your points, I have no basis to do so, but I wasn’t attempting to identify the worst. I was just remarking that all military and paramilitary organizations fundamentally resent civilian control and actively work around it at every opportunity while exhibiting a higher degree of tribalism than I consider healthy. The FBI and the CIA even the Secret Service seem to be motivated by different concepts than upholding the US Constitution.

          • EvanHarper

            Enlisted military is pretty normal; a little whiter and a lot more Southern, but basically just folks. (With the proviso that lots of “just folks” are nuts, politically speaking.) And it’s an annoying liberal myth that large numbers of people are driven into the military against their will by economic desperation.

            • Davis X. Machina

              And it’s an annoying liberal myth that large numbers of people are driven into the military against their will by economic desperation.

              Collapsed mill towns are another annoying liberal myth.

              • Origami Isopod

                And so is lack of funding for higher education.

                A lot of the people, meanwhile, claiming that military enlistment due to economic desperation is a myth wouldn’t know economic desperation if it punched them in the face.

              • EvanHarper

                No, I’m serious here. Enlisted military average is higher SES and education level than the general public. And the people hardest-hit by economic deprivation are also the people most likely to be excluded by the high school diploma, physical health, and AVSAB (roughly, IQ) requirements.

                I’m not sure where the whole thing comes from. Maybe people who hate U.S. foreign policy want an “out” against being accused of hating the troops, so they tell the pity story? Maybe liberals can’t personally imagine volunteering for the regimentation and bullshit of Army life unless they were desperate, so they assume that applies to everyone else?

                Whatever the reason, it’s still just a misconception.

          • CP

            No, ICE is far worse, and there have been plenty of posts here documenting this.

            A huge chunk of what ICE deals with is people who aren’t citizens and therefore have no recourse against them – and many of the others are still considered unpersons by enough of the population (and the people they elect) to give them a lot of cover.

            The only job I can think of that’s as much a recipe for abuse as that is being a prison guard.

            • Bloix

              CP is right – cops can and do get sued all the time. It’s not enough, but it does moderate their behavior. But border and immigration – almost impossible, legally and practically, to bring an action against them.

      • cpinva

        “I think ICE just doesn’t give a shit about the law or process. It’s basically a fascist organization.”

        that may or may not be true. I’ve not, to my knowledge had any first-hand dealings with immigration officials, so I can’t opine from experience in that specific area. however, I have tons of experience with the Federal bureaucracy in general. based on that, my guess is that they are working on the “Better to seek forgiveness than permission.” theory of doing their job. if they’re real lucky, this person will get lost in the maze that is immigration/deportation, and they’ll never have to explain themselves in front of a judge.

        more to the issue at hand, the judge will point to the facts/law, and grant ICE’s request to deport him back to his country of origin.

    • Murc

      The American Gestapo don’t need additional incentive to do this sort of thing. The rock-hard erection they get when they shove a guy out of the bus in Juarez is all the payment they need.

    • Princetonlawyer

      Once you’re out, it’s nearly impossible to come back in legally, even if the deportation was illegal. That’s all the incentive ICE needs, because their goal is to make people suffer for being human and having emotions while brown. Precisely the Nazi M.O.

    • Warren Terra

      When the process initially started, just a couple weeks into the Trump administration, it got national attention and a lot of voices saying the guy shouldn’t be deported. ICE had three options: they could knuckle under like wimps; they could proceed with deportation following due process and according the guy his rights and some respect, like weenies; or they could be all macho and snatch him away in the dead of night, transporting him across the continent all by himself, and booting him into a country he hadn’t seen in decades, due process be damned. The choice was inevitable.

    • Docrailgun

      ICE has probably been told to get as many people out before the courts get involved and stop the whole mess. Besides, if the agency does things the proper way (through immigration courts) it’ll be years before the scary brown people are kicked out of Trumpistan.

  • McAllen

    It would be nice if people could make connections between their own lives and political rhetoric, and realize that the nice Mexican man who owns a small business in their community is not different that the illegal immigrants Republicans rant about, or that the government benefits they receive are not different than the welfare Republicans claim poorp people are getting fat and lazy off of.

    • Warren Terra

      When Trump’s budget proposal came out there were articles about rural white disadvantaged Trump supporters who stood to get utterly skewered under his plan, and were upset about that idea and wanted to be protected from it – but still would re-elect him and didn’t extrapolate from his declared intent to screw them over that maybe they shouldn’t be so enthusiastic about getting him to screw other people over.

      • cpinva

        “When Trump’s budget proposal came out there were articles about rural white disadvantaged Trump supporters who stood to get utterly skewered under his plan, and were upset about that idea and wanted to be protected from it – but still would re-elect him and didn’t extrapolate from his declared intent to screw them over that maybe they shouldn’t be so enthusiastic about getting him to screw other people over.”

        dude, stupid, as a character flaw, transcends race/gender/faith beliefs/sexual orientation. they just assumed (with no substantive evidence to support said assumption), that their white privilege would exempt them from all the horrible things Strump planned doing to all people of low economic/educational status. they were wrong. terribly, terribly wrong.

  • delazeur

    The reactions have not all been supportive. The mayor said that the Beristains’ eighth- and ninth-grade daughters were on “the receiving end of some ugliness at their school.” He added that there had been some negative responses from people online, who have said that Mr. Beristain does not have an excuse because he had years to try and become a citizen.

    The mayor said it was important to view the story as a human one, not just a political one. “That’s equally applicable to people in the anti-Trump world who are saying that somehow this family deserve it,” he said. “I think this is a moment where compassion has to come first.”

    This guy’s head is so far up his own asshole that he actually thinks Democrats are cheering this deportation.

    In an interview in March, Ms. Beristain told a CBS affiliate in South Bend, Ind., “I don’t think ICE is out there to detain anyone and break families, no.”

    I really can’t fathom that degree of stupidity and blind obedience to party. ICE just broke up her family without cause, and she can’t even condemn them.

    The idiocy here is truly mind-boggling.

    • Scott P.

      ICE just broke up her family without cause, and she can’t even condemn them.

      The interview was pre-deportation.

      • delazeur

        I realize that, and I don’t think it makes a difference. He had been detained for at least a month by the time she gave that interview. Perhaps their family was less broken when the guy was in a detention center instead of Juarez, but it was broken up all the same.

        • Warren Terra

          Sure, but it was in part a public relations fight at the time – it made sense for her to describe ICE in friendly terms as being sympathetic to her, because she wanted to convince them to act that way, and not to alienate them while they held her children’s father’s fate in the balance.

          • EvanHarper

            This is a reasonable-sounding idea but I think lady lost the benefit of the doubt when she vote for Donald Trump while being married to an illegal immigrant. I’m sure she genuinely does think ICE is confused somehow and only deported one of the good ones, who aren’t like the rest of them, by accident. They’re the nice police men who protect us from Mexican crimes!

            • BiloSagdiyev

              She should have bought her husband a ONE OF THE GOOD ONES T shirt or hat.

            • econoclast

              The point is that her comments in that situation contain no information about her opinions — they are for PR purposes only.

    • Warren Terra

      This guy’s head is so far up his own asshole that he actually thinks Democrats are cheering this deportation.

      It would be nice if that weren’t happening, but sadly I know of one instance offhand; there must be others.

      • Brien Jackson

        Meh, it’s a double edged sword. On the one hand I’m mortified by the sheer fascism of ICE’s actions in just chucking him while legal proceedings were underway, and also that that angle is getting shockingly little play. OTOH, I have no sympathy whatsoever for this racist POS woman and the darker parts of me do in fact chuckle with amusement that she finds herself on the wrong end of the consequences of voting for Trump.

        • Q.E.Dumbass

          Yeah; as Robyn Pennacchia pointed out she’s on the ass end of the hierarchy of “Trump voters we should give a shit about.”

          • Brien Jackson

            Yep, that pretty much nails it.

        • I mean, if she is married to an undocumented Mexican immigrant, is she racist?

          I don’t doubt that is possible and obviously her opinions about African-Americans would be relevant. But it’s not really that simple.

          • Chetsky

            C’mon, Erik. The refrain “you’re one of the good Z-ese, not like all the others; why, you’re an honorary white” is a trope, right back to Hitler’s time, eh? I’m sure you’ve posted that quote from some Nazi bureaucrat about all those Germans coming to him for help for their Jewish friend/relative/employee/employer, b/c they’re “one of the Good Jews”. And the bureaucrat says something like “when will they learn: there are no good Jews”. Vote for the Nazis, support the Nazis, own that bureaucrat.

            This woman’s “good Mexican” is somebody else’s “brown brown greaser heh heh heh get him out”.

            I’m sad for him and his children, that their own blood could betray them so.

          • Srsly Dad Y

            Well, we need to know where she sends her kids to school.

          • Brien Jackson

            Well here’s another way to phrase this; Her husband is someone who is here illegally to build a life and is by all accounts a pillar of the community regardless of immigration status. Yet, when Donald Trump calls Mexican immigrants murderers, rapists, and bad hombres she nods along and votes for him because she apparently can’t relate any other Mexican immigrants to her husband, and STILL sees them as just foreign others.

            So yeah, I’d say this makes her even MORE clearly a racist, despite her marital status.

            • N__B

              Or dumb as a rock. I don’t say that to excuse her, but she really seems incapable of following causation at a level understood by house pets.

              • N__B

                ETA: I think she’s dumb and racist.

                • efgoldman

                  I think she’s dumb and racist.

                  They tend to go together.

          • Abbey Bartlet

            I mean, if she is married to an undocumented Mexican immigrant, is she racist?

            Change that sentence to “I mean, if he is married to a woman, is he sexist?” and you’ll hopefully see how ridiculous it is.

            Yes, she’s a goddamn racist.

    • timb

      This guy is one of the most promising up-and-coming Democrats in America. You should look them up. For example, his interview with David Axelrod is amazing. And, until you can prove that he’s making it up, i.e., no one did say that his family deserved it (hint: look at the first comment on this thread), then I think you should cut him some slack

    • cpinva

      “The idiocy here is truly mind-boggling.”

      if idiocy were an Olympic medal event, she, and all the others like her, would be standing on the gold platform.

  • Princetonlawyer

    Don’t pick on the poor woman. Not clear what her deal is, her English doesn’t seem too strong. The cleaning lady in my office building asked me hesitantly on the night of 11/10 (I work late Thursdays) if I “like Trump?” I said vehemently no, I do not like Trump. She allowed as how some of her friends, who I took also to be Hispanic immigrants, but with something about their story that distinguished them from her (she tried to explain it as being from different countries, but it sounded as if there were levels of eligibility for green cards, possibly related to country of origin) . . . Anyway, they supported Trunp, because he would limit immigration that competed with them for jobs. That opened my eyes a bit. But of course, it’s well documented that it’s people already living at the bottom of the labor pool in the U.S.who are the (only) ones who suffer from illegal immigration. So, if this sort of sentiment is in the air, Mrs. Beristain’s picking up on Trumps promise to deport “bad hombres”, and reading in that very missing “only”, not be as aberrant as the first three commenters think. Dumb? Sure. Evil? Well, come on, of course not, poor thing.
    But this whole deal with the ICE reminds me of Anne Franks description of the onslaught of holocaust. From her child’s perspective, it started with wantonly cruel, petty acts by low-level officials. I haven’t re read the book since I was 14 myself, because it’s just too sad, but at that age I won a NCCJ award for an essay on it. So I hope I have my source right, forty years on, for one telling example that has always stuck with me. The story I recall was of an older male relative who was fired from his job for being Jewish. He then, very depressed, spent his days in the park, feeding the birds and ducks. All day long, it was his only solace. So the local (Nazi) park cop banned him. Just because he could.
    The ICE seems to be working along those lines. Erik or Scott, or whoever it was on this blog who suggested ICE agents be shunned like the low-level Nazi scum they are, is right. (Nazi, not just fascist. This shit is racial.)
    A family friend of ours (whose US-born child is best friends of my middle kid) knew his mother in Mexico was dying. Couldn’t risk going back to see her. She died. He hadn’t seen her once in the last 20 years of her life. Kid is inconsolable for his dad.

    • los

      and probably couldn’t even video conference/chat.
      maybe not even voice phone call.

      • Chetsky

        Don’t know where you’re goin’ with this, but I’ll just note that no, video calls are no substitute, not in any way, shape, or form. Not at all.

        • los

          In this case, maybe the little that happened was only hearing “news” 3 months later from somebody who had returned from the home town.

          Everyone is different, though.

          For me, voice with somebody I know well is better than nothing at all.

    • Chetsky

      Don’t pick on the poor woman.

      If she were a green card holder, I’d cut her some (a millimeter) slack (but then she wouldn’t be a trump voter, but rather a trump sympathizer). The “deserving case” who, upon finally making it, getting a couple of rungs up, turns around and cuts off that ladder, that’s racism against one’s own kind. This is relevant:

      She also revealed that she, like her husband, had once been an illegal immigrant, though now she is a U.S. citizen. She is originally from Greece.

      She’s -Greek-. She should know her Niemoller.

      • Chetsky

        ETA (edit button, oh edit button): should said, “and she was illegal herself, so she knows -precisely- what it’s like to be without papers”.

      • ExpatJK

        Also, here is her response post deportation:

        “I wish I didn’t vote at all,” Helen Berestain said Friday. “I did it for the economy. We needed a change.”

        Yes, not voting, that’s the solution!

        And there is this gem, regarding people who have told her that this is what she gets for her vote:

        She wants all the people who are quick to respond hatefully to consider all of the details.

        “There’s a lot of racism out there, and it needs to stop,” she said, adding that skin color “doesn’t make you a killer or a bad person.”

        I think she considers herself a victim of “reverse racism”**, no?

        In summary, she appears to have learnt nothing, so I see no reason to extend the benefit of my doubt.

        **bwahaha, one of the stupidest terms ever, but I imagine she is a Fox News watcher, so…

        • GeorgeBurnsWasRight

          She doesn’t know much, but the one thing she knows is that voting for a Democrat is unthinkable. She doesn’t know why, she just knows it is.

          • Dennis Orphen

            It’s unthinkable because people like us have to be put in our place. We sure won’t do it to ourselves, like so many others, such as the subject of the NYT story in the OP are willing to do to themselves.

            Mythical Mercury had wings on his feet. Modern Mercury lies low and wears a suit of armor.

          • EvanHarper

            Trump’s excellent numbers on the economy are to me maybe the most mystifying thing about him.

            Are people genuinely this stupid? That they think “rich guy” means “good at the economy” means “good at Presidential economic policy?”

            How have all democracies ever not just crashed and caught fire and tumbled into the sea?

            • Dennis Orphen

              Full Kornbluth implies that a smaller and smaller nunmber of people are working harder and harder to keep things going, with diminishing returns.

              • Snarki, child of Loki

                Never go “Full Kornbluth”

        • Domino

          The economy has had 65 months of consistent job growth. There are notable problem about the distribution of what jobs those are, and how much they pay, but the idea that the economy was her #1 concern is something I just can see the logic in.

    • ExpatJK

      Anyway, they supported Trunp, because he would limit immigration that competed with them for jobs. That opened my eyes a bit.

      Umm, what? There were women (mostly if not entirely white) who supported Trump after the sexual assault tape. That opened my eyes, albeit in the sense of “holy fnck so much for solidarity.”

      So, if this sort of sentiment is in the air, Mrs. Beristain’s picking up on Trumps promise to deport “bad hombres”, and reading in that very missing “only”, not be as aberrant as the first three commenters think. Dumb? Sure. Evil? Well, come on, of course not, poor thing.

      Unless this is sarcasm, no. It is aberrant, and in fact how evil things like the Holocaust* can go on in full view of other people. She heard and understood that Trump was going to do bad things to people, and immigrants in particular. She believed that these bad things would occur to others, and supported these bad things. I can’t know for sure, but I imagine she’s not shedding tears over other families who have been torn apart by ICE, even though some of them may be in a similar situation. She is sad because it happened to her family, which is understandable. However, that does not take away from *knowingly* voting for these bad things.

      *I do not actually consider Trump to be a Nazi, but if everyone is going to go Godwin and use analogy, let’s go with this for the sake of argument.

    • cpinva

      “Don’t pick on the poor woman.”

      she (and all her fellows) are exactly the kind of person to pick on. she had ample opportunity to learn about Strump, five or ten minutes would have done it, for the basics. she couldn’t even be bothered with that little. when she watches tv, she probably watches FOX, or Hannity, or Limbaugh, Coulter, etc., who told her exactly what Strump planned to do, once in office. told her and her husband repeatedly, and still they failed to connect the few dots.

      the economy, while not in burning stage, was doing well enough, under Obama and the Democrats in Congress, after spending a lot of time cleaning up the Bush II mess. yet, for reasons not made clear, she thought the economy was in a tailspin. probably because FOX “News” told her so.

      so no, I have zero sympathy/empathy for her and her husband. they didn’t get hoist on the Stump petard, they knowingly jumped right on it.

      • Chet Manly

        Exactly. This woman literally helped bring calamity on her own family and millions of others and is still essentially saying those other families have it coming, but the law shouldn’t apply to special people like her family.

        Her children have all of my sympathy, but she deserves every bit of the scorn she’s getting.

    • Origami Isopod

      Don’t pick on the poor woman.

      Fuck her, and fuck your concern trolling. These people need to be held responsible for their votes.

    • tsam

      I’ll save my sympathy for those who didn’t stick fork in their own eye Kthx

    • vic rattlehead

      Don’t pick on the poor woman. Not clear what her deal is, her English doesn’t seem too strong.

      Sure, one really needs to understand English to grasp how awful Trump is. Shame there were no non-English news sources covering him.

      Shut the fuck up you piece of shit concern troll.

  • Captain Oblivious

    I honestly believe, based on articles I’ve read + personal experience, that a very large swath of the public simply do not understand what politicians actually do or how government actually works. And that’s one reason why they don’t grasp how voting (or not, as the case may be) impacts their own lives.

    Just for example, reading all the anecdotal stories of racist Trumpnuts being arrested or doxed online for getting a little too aggressive with their racism in violation of the law, it’s pretty obvious that 99% of them think the president makes the laws. This, of course, raises the question of what they think Congress and SCOTUS and state and local governments do. But it’s clear that they don’t really get it.

    • Murc

      You know, when I say that the vast majority of people are manifestly incompetent to exercise the franchise, and the only reason for universal suffrage and a robustly guaranteed right to vote is because all the other ways of doing things are even worse, I get tarred as a fascist.

      • Davis X. Machina

        Not by me.

        There’s no reason both positions can’t be right. Usually you don’t get tarred as a fascist, just a Federalist.

        Until the rise of the Democratic Republicans, and even more so the Jackson Democrats, this was probably a majority view, in the political nation certainly.

        • CP

          There’s no reason both positions can’t be right.

          This.

          It’s not that I don’t think the general population doesn’t contain a massive helping of people who’re by any objective measure too idiotic, too ignorant, and too lacking in any kind of civic sense to be trusted to use their vote responsibly: I do. It’s that I’ve never heard of, and can’t conceive of any way to create, a ruling elite that doesn’t have exactly the same problem. In the present context, for example, if college education is your baseline, the college educated white vote, like its less-educated counterpart, also went for Trump.

          (That and the fact that even if you could somehow create a ruling class that was objectively much smarter than the general population, you have no guarantee that they’ll actually use that smartness for the general good as opposed to their own… not without an accountability mechanism to all the people they’re ruling that brings you back, ultimately, to universal suffrage).

          • Juicy_Joel

            if college education is your baseline

            A college education is also a pretty arbitrary baseline, my buddy with a GED is certainly a lot more competent than some of the morons I went to college with.

            • Dennis Orphen

              I’ve always felt that there should be an equivalent to a G.E.D. for secondary education.

              • Colin Day

                Did you tertiary education? A GED is secondary education.

                • Dennis Orphen

                  I consider K-12 primary education. Maybe I’m wrong, not gonna bother to google. A BA or a BS is a secondary education? Beyond that (Masters, PhD) a tertiary?

                • vic rattlehead

                  You can consider it whatever you’d like, but “secondary education” means high school in the United States.

            • CP

              Oh, sure. But all the baselines are arbitrary and, ultimately, don’t work in terms of separating the “smart” from the “ignorant,” which was my point.

              (I only mentioned that one in this case because the narrative that’s accompanied the last election was “yuuuge gap between college educated liberals and uneducated Trumpists.” Which is… not that simple, to put it mildly).

          • JohnT

            The closest system I know to what you are looking for is the Singaporean (and to a declining extent) Japanese system, where a large proportion of political decisions are made by well-paid civil servants who are rigorously selected and (as much as possible in a human system) promoted on the basis of intellect and merit. The ‘democratic system’ then acts as a degree of check on the civil servants (rather than the other way round as in today’s USA) and also as an outlet for the most intense frustrations. It seems to be a good system for stability and micro-level governance, but not as good at big changes. And probably at high risk of being perverted to serve the civil servant apparat, as happened in the USSR.

            • CP

              The democratic system, in Singapore?

              And it’s not really “what I’m looking for;” I pretty much believe that the whole “ruling class smarter than people it rules” thing is a fantasy, and a dangerous one.

            • Origami Isopod

              “Intellect” != morality. Too many liberals need to get this through their skulls. Especially affluent ones with postgraduate degrees.

          • rachelmap

            It’s not that I don’t think the general population doesn’t contain a massive helping of people who’re by any objective measure too idiotic, too ignorant, and too lacking in any kind of civic sense to be trusted to use their vote responsibly: I do. It’s that I’ve never heard of, and can’t conceive of any way to create, a ruling elite that doesn’t have exactly the same problem. In the present context, for example, if college education is your baseline, the college educated white vote, like its less-educated counterpart, also went for Trump.

            All true, but let’s remember here that it wasn’t the majority of voters who put this walking nightmare in the Oval Office. He’s there because of an anti-democratic measure put in place to prevent rule by ‘the mob’ let the slave owners have an outsize say in how the country was run.

            • CP

              All true, but let’s remember here that it wasn’t the majority of voters who put this walking nightmare in the Oval Office.

              Totally. Which is also part of my point. The founding fathers set up a Rube Goldberg machine that could at times overrule the will of the voters, at least in part, because they believed the masses were sheep who could be easily misled into voting for an unqualified demagogue.

              Welp… twice in my lifetime now, we’ve had an utterly, disastrously unqualified clown run for office; the stupid masses saw through his act and voted against it; the system that was supposed to stop people like that getting into office overruled them. Seems pretty clear the founders were wrong.

          • farin

            Male suffrage was a mistake.

          • rlc

            I’m afraid education won’t fix things, at the margin. I have known a couple for 33 years, and they voted for Trump. The husband is the retired dean of one of the highest rated Veterinary Schools in the US. They are dead to us now. I think all their children voted Trump too.

            My GP, a Republican Christian, of the tawdry sort if the office decorations provide meaningful evidence, almost certainly voted Trump. I’m looking for another doctor now. My Podiatrist, based on the conversations I overheard coming out a little early from general anasthesia, almost certainly voted Trump. He’s a Mormon (but not a moron). Fucker quoted me $400 for an elective operation, “after checking with the insurance company”, which promptly turned around and billed me $16K (“after our amazing 20% discount”). I consider him to be a grifter, swindler, *and* a fraud.

            Character counts, is what it is.

            Also, I don’t think any of the myriad fascist regimes over the last 100 years had any sort of trouble getting highly educated people to do essentially collaborationist work for the regime. Tony Judt is especially illuminating on this in “Postwar”.

            • bender

              The memoir Christ Stopped At Eboli in part describes how the doctors and other professionals in that part of Italy regarded the poor as sheep to be fleeced.

      • Dennis Orphen

        I have the following words saved as a ‘sticky note’ on the desktop screen of my laptop:

        The time has come for us to take a hard, long look at some of the foundational civic myths of our society.

        Because a lot of them might just be not so. This is to some extent terrifying, because if it turns out that the only reward for governing well is the satisfaction of a job well-done, and that it is entirely possible to assemble an enduring, wins-half-the-time political coalition around a platform of destruction and ruin, that calls into question… well, it calls into question a lot.

        Sound familiar?

        • Murc

          I have a lot of flaws as a commenter. I’m longwinded. I have an inability to just let a joke be a joke when I can turn it into exposition. I love pedantry like a drunk loves Popov. I can be deeply aggressive and alienating, and I tend to make everything about myself.

          But sometimes I manage to produce something worth reading.

          • Dennis Orphen

            Actually, you’ve been on a roll. It seems that the gods have blown wind into your sails (metaphor clumsily stolen from Gene Wolfe’s Latro). Your so called alienating aggressiveness seems like true, pure, unadulterated passion. You don’t make anything about yourself, you seem to be a compassionate humanist. You’re not long winded, you’ve been distilling complex ideas into brief and digestible paragraphs.

            • sibusisodan

              Cosigned, enthusiastically!

            • CP

              Also cosigned. I don’t agree with everything you write, but heck, if I only wanted to read websites where everybody agrees with each other all day, I’d still be in the right wing blogosphere. You’re a great contributor in my book.

          • Dennis Orphen

            BTW, drunks love handles of Monopolowa, at least the west coast hipster/cowboy/surfer/glam-punk rockers do. Although I will concede that the plastic bottles are handy if you happen to accidentally drop one or it falls out of the inside pocket of your leather jacket when you’re leaning over to puke.

          • Domino

            There’s a part of me that longs to read a 25 comment back-and-forth between you and JfL.

            • Murc

              That happened on more than one occasion, and it often was neither pretty, pleasant, or productive, because any back-and-forth with Joe that went that long was usually one taking place on a day when Bad Joe was here instead of Good Joe.

        • PunditusMaximus

          Yeah, welcome to 2011. Now what.

    • efgoldman

      a very large swath of the public simply do not understand what politicians actually do or how government actually works.

      But this is the first time that the president, and every other fucking body that went to DC with him, is part of that swath.
      Even Ronaldus Magnus and W knew the basics of legislating.

      • GeorgeBurnsWasRight

        So you’re saying that Trump really is “a man of the people”.

        • efgoldman

          So you’re saying that Trump really is “a man of the people”.

          In that sense, I guess I am.

          At least as much as any Manhattan real estate developer faux billionaire can be.

          • N__B

            Manhattan real estate developer

            Not for twenty years. Since then, failed casino operator and reality TV star. Successful Manhattan real estate operators may be terrible human beings but they know what budgets are and they tend to work long hours trying to outsmart or outflank their perceived enemies.

        • Dennis Orphen

          How about ‘Man of the Sheeple’?

        • The Pale Scot

          Paging H.L Mencken…

          • Snarki, child of Loki

            Somewhere, near Baltimore, there is the soft sound of laughter coming from underground in a cemetery.

            • efgoldman

              Somewhere, near Baltimore, there is the soft sound of laughter coming from underground in a cemetery.

              I thought Loomis had covered it, but I guess not.

    • delazeur

      I honestly believe, based on articles I’ve read + personal experience, that a very large swath of the public simply do not understand what politicians actually do or how government actually works.

      Also worth noting that while the issue is correlated with education and socioeconomic status, there are plenty of well-educated and wealthy people who also fall into this category. I was shocked at the number of people in my life who believed that Paul Ryan was responsible for blocking Merrick Garland’s appointment — including PhDs and multi-millionaires.

      • LeeEsq

        Most people are not that political and tend to vote for tribal reasons. That includes plenty of people who vote Democratic in addition to Republicans. A lot of people also really don’t like paying attention to the news that much.

        • The Dark God of Time

          You keep posting variants of this observation about once a week.

          • Srsly Dad Y

            His brother went a small liberal arts college and studied drama.

            • Really? I had no idea!

              …Incidentally, “liberal arts” is an anagram of “tribal laser”.

              • Srsly Dad Y

                That could explain a lot.

          • Docrailgun

            Hopefully some version of the post will be added every day, just to remind us.

      • los

        well-educated

        Modern specialization in education, experience, expertise, awareness, interests.

        and wealthy people

        Yeah well, (rolls eyes)

      • efgoldman

        I was shocked at the number of people in my life who believed that Paul Ryan was responsible for blocking Merrick Garland’s appointment — including PhDs and multi-millionaires.

        Heh. I always assumed that huge majorities of people neither knew nor cared who Granny Starver is, what office he holds, and what the office theoretically does.

      • Domino

        This reminds me – just because someone is a doctor/surgeon/engineer doesn’t mean they know anything about how politics work.

        I don’t question their knowledge in their field of study. It took a long, rigorous road to get to their position. But just because you know about how to treat hundreds of diseases/can cut open people very, very, very precisely/know about a bunch of different mathematic equations and how to apply them, doesn’t mean you have any clue how to run a country.

        You could apply this to money – doctors are apparently easier to con than you think.

      • Origami Isopod

        Jill Stein, an M.D., is an anti-vaxxer. Enough said.

    • CP

      I honestly believe, based on articles I’ve read + personal experience, that a very large swath of the public simply do not understand what politicians actually do or how government actually works. And that’s one reason why they don’t grasp how voting (or not, as the case may be) impacts their own lives.

      From a blog article back in the 2008 election:

      […] At the time, what I got out of this was that too many people think in metaphor — thinking of the country as one big family and of voting for president as picking a dad. I still think that’s right. What I now realize is this: Everyone’s interested in the leaders of the country. Intelligent people are interested in the actual functioning of the government, what policies various candidates plan to put into practice, how those policies will affect the lives of the citizenry… but there just aren’t that many intelligent people. A lot of people are stupid. To them the government is just a sort of reality show. To them politicians are just celebrities who show up in different timeslots from the actors and sports stars. The beauty of constitutional monarchy is that it gives the stupid people their reality show, but farms it out to a powerless royal family so the real government can get on with its work. And you do have to give the stupid people their reality show. If you don’t, they will make the real government into the reality show. In Sarah Palin, Middle America has its Princess Di — the problem is that in the American system, Princess Di would have been second in line to make decisions that affect hundreds of millions of people. Which is almost as scary a prospect as Sarah Palin being second in line to make those decisions. Or John McCain being first.

      Democrats always say that if they can just steer the conversation back to the issues, they’ll win. But I read a lot of political journalism, and one observation that comes up in article after article is that low-information voters do not realize that government actually affects our day-to-day lives. They do not connect the experience of sitting around the kitchen table trying to pay the bills with the earnest men on the television set talking about sitting around the kitchen table trying to pay the bills. You can’t reach them that way.

      http://adamcadre.ac/calendar/12/12640.html

      • efgoldman

        From a blog article back in the 2008 election:

        Every goddamned but of that is true. And we (the US citizenry) proved it, if proof be needed, in November.

        • efgoldman

          Every goddamned but of that is true.

          “Every goddamned bit…” he said, mourning the edit button.

      • LeeEsq

        This Atlantic article about Pepsi’s recent ad provides another issue. Even if people understand politics and government, many people do not like politics. They would love to have an apolitical world of “pure, color-blind consumerism that might someday replace politics entirely.” Politics means conflict because different individuals and groups have inconsistent and contradictory goals. Market over government is attractive for many people because it offers a glimpse of a world with less conflict because people can buy what they want and not buy what they don’t want rather than having to work out how get people with contradictory ideas to govern together.

        • BiloSagdiyev

          I always thought of many militantly apolitical people as just having an emotional reaction to dischord, and wishing mommy and daddy would stop fighting because it’s scary. (Based on their own childhoods.) And now we have their drunken uncle for president.

          • Davis X. Machina

            Some of it is aspiration-chasing.

            “See all those terrible people mud-wrestling doing politics? I’m above all that.”

            It’s a pose that’s cheap, easy, socially acceptable and doesn’t cost you anything – until it does.

            • BiloSagdiyev

              Aye. Another painful aspect to is is that those who have decided to not devote too much of their brain to civics and politcs feel that they can split the difference between the two parties in this country and feel like they’re doing fine. They’re unaware that there are things further left than Democrat and things further right than the GOP (well, used to be) and that certain radicals have been pushing their side further and further from the past center. Nor do they grasp at how much “center” has changed compared to, say, 40 years ago, or how what’s “reasonable” in this country is kookoobananas in much of the modern world elsewhere.

          • bender

            There are people like that in the organizations I am active in, and boy is it tiresome to work around their sensitivities. People who turn every decision into a struggle for control and dominance cause more trouble, but the conflict averse make it difficult to reach good decisions. A group cannot come to consensus honestly unless people who disagree, have conflicting interests, or have different information to present, are allowed to state their cases.

        • Anna in PDX

          Great comment. I think consumerism is a huge part of the problem. We do not see civic engagement as a separate role and we bemoan people being “partisan” but we like the everyone get along feel good ads for products.

    • Bugboy

      “…think the president makes the laws…”

      That’s because they understand what a king is, and a president is same thing as a king, only for the United States, amirite?

      • Thom

        To me, this shows that they also misunderstand what a king is and does. Rulers with sole authority are rare, in any system.

        • Bugboy

          Yes that is true, but most Americans have a “WHERE’S MY HASENPFEFFER?!” mentality about what constitutes a monarchy.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shishkabugs

          If it’s on TV it must be true? Even if it’s Bugs Bunny…

    • Woodrowfan

      MY sister-in-law. Sweet lady in many ways, but in many others dumb as a box of really dumb rocks, was visiting us and pointed to the Capitol Building and proclaimed it was where the President lived. When I tried to explain that’s where Congress was she was confused. What’s Congress? The legislature. What’s a legislature? She was not kidding. She’s an immigrant, Filipino, and probably voted for Trump to “save all those poor babies being aborted.”

      She has bad asthma and her doctor told her STOP GARDENING! It sets it off! So what did she do? Went home and a week later worked in her garden and ended up in the emergency room. I had to hide her on Facebook because she falls for every stupid hoax post she sees. You point to Snopes and she’s all “oh, OK, not real. good. it was so awful.” But does she look for herself the next time? Of course not. Ladies and Gentleman I give you, the Trump voter….

      • Thom

        You need to send her this.

      • ExpatChad

        She’s an immigrant, Filipino, and probably voted for Trump to “save all those poor babies being aborted

        I live in the Philippinnes.

        Look who we elected!

        • ExpatChad

          Did we not used to have an edit….

    • Woodrowfan

      honestly believe, based on articles I’ve read + personal experience, that a very large swath of the public simply do not understand what politicians actually do or how government actually works.

      hence the simplistic “term limits” idea. “Let’s fire the experienced people and hire a bunch of newbees. THAT’LL FIX things!

      • Davis X. Machina

        The Solution:

        Get the parties out of politics!
        Get the politicians out of politics!
        Get the politics out of politics!

        That should fix our politics.

        (Whenever I tweet this, it gets tons of likes. Probably the lack of a sarcasm font.)

        • Domino

          George Washington warned us about political parties! (ignores that the statement from Washington was itself a veiled shot at Jefferson).

          It’s the people who want to abolish parties that I roll my eyes at. Because what would we call people who get together for a common goal, and work together to get people elected to achieve that goal?

          • Colin Day

            And how would Washington have organized politics in the absence of partes?

            • Dennis Orphen

              Around issues and individuals?

              • Colin Day

                And how would politicians agree on issues (which ones were important, and what position to take). And wouldn’t the individuals generate cults of personality?

            • Colin Day

              OT When I look at the source file for this page, there is a click to edit thing

              <a href=”http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php?_wpnonce=b3665180a2&cid=2723747&pid=90725″≥Click to Edit≤/a≥

              The link is just 0.

            • DocAmazing

              Well-regulated militias.

  • UncleEbeneezer

    Erik do you have any posts about the Mexican deportations in the 1930’s? My local Progressive Discussion Group (Pasadena) had a historian, Roberta Martinez speak for us this morning and it was fascinating (and terrifying/sad.) I had no 1-2 Million Mexicans were deported in 1931 (143 here in Pasadena) and 60% were US citizens. Nutty. She also highly recommended Decade of Betrayal.

  • efgoldman

    The all the news that fits we print paper of record is just now getting around to discovering this?
    That Manhattan-centric bubble is really something, innit?

    • Dennis Orphen

      I don’t think that they have so much discovered it as that these types of stories have gone from hypothetical to actual. And they will become more and more common, especially as Trump voters continue to flip the doubling cube towards ’64’ and beyond on the wrong.

  • Q.E.Dumbass

    Testing

  • twbb
  • Nick never Nick

    I knew a woman once (she had a master’s degree), she wondered how government programs and employees got funded. I explained it was from taxes; she was surprised, she hadn’t known that before. “Why do you think we pay taxes?” I asked. “I just thought it was for punishment,” she replied.

    • I am glad I have a bottle of tequila in the house I can just pour down my throat

      • Murc

        Blanco or anejo?

        • Dr. Ronnie James, DO

          Rápido

      • Dennis Orphen

        I’m going with 16 oz of strong coffee and David McCullough’s John Adams tonight.

      • los

        Erik Loomis says:

        pour

        more punishment.

      • Docrailgun

        Drinking bad hombre juice? Aren’t you afraid that you’ll be deported? Drink a nice Russian vodka just to be safe.

    • Q.E.Dumbass

      kill us all and let black jeebus sort us out

    • giovanni da procida

      (Out of morbid curiosity) What was her masters degree in?

      • efgoldman

        What was her masters degree in?

        Ignorance?
        [No joke. Where we used to live, and the chorus mrs efg used to sing with, we knew lots of multiple degree Harvard people. It’s fucking amazing how unworldly and ignorant many of them were outside their field of study.]

        • Dennis Orphen

          The secondary education feedback loop?

          • efgoldman

            The secondary education feedback loop?

            I dunno’. I was just a music major who majored in drinking and skipping class, took five years and two summers to graduate, and didn’t even know I’d earned the degree until three months later, when I wrote my then-wife from basic training, and asked her to go to the school and ask how many credits I needed, and she sent back a photocopy of my degree.

            • N__B

              I wrote my then-wife from basic training

              If they let you have pen and paper you must have already mastered rolling over and sitting up.

            • bender

              You are a graduate after my own heart.

        • Mike G

          I’m not surprised. Most people who get into Harvard these days have to be monomaniacal given how competitive it is, and how unforgiving of variations or mistakes, and narrow the criteria for acceptance for the large majority who don’t have a world-class unique talent or skill.

        • Srsly Dad Y

          IME if you meet a dumbass with a fancy degree, it is almost always from Harvard.

          • Eli Yale haz a sad.

            • Srsly Dad Y

              If you meet the most insufferably arrogant person ever — Yale.

              • Woodrowfan

                Poor Princeton. Always an also-ran

                • What with one thing and another, I get to see (and scan through to just short of emesis) a modestly assortment of Elite (East-)Coastal alumni magazines, some only occasionally, but a few monthly. The one that is quickest, by far, to trigger my gag reflex is the Princeton Alumni (no-longer-)Weekly. In particular, I offer “letters to the editor” as a department in which Princeton is definitely NOT an also-ran: a more wretched hive of scum and villainy cannot be found outside Mar-E-Lago. And, mind you, Princeton achieves this without having to any recourse to Schools of Law, Business, or Medicine.

        • Origami Isopod

          Doesn’t surprise me at all. The ivory tower is a thing, and here in the US the tower walls don’t get much higher than Harvard’s.

    • lizzie

      I’m finding this literally hard to believe. I don’t mean I doubt that you actually had that conversation, but how could that woman actually be that ignorant. The most superficial exposure to ordinary political rhetoric–people bitching about their tax dollars going to waste on this or that government program, or people handwringing about government debt that future generations will someday have to repay– would be sufficient to introduce you to the concept that taxes pay for stuff that the government does. I remember hearing stuff like that when I was a child. How can you exist in the world, and be engaged in it to the degree required to obtain a master’s degree, and not have been exposed to that at some point.

      • efgoldman

        The most superficial exposure to ordinary political rhetoric–people bitching about their tax dollars going to waste on this or that government program, or people handwringing about government debt that future generations will someday have to repay– would be sufficient to introduce you to the concept that taxes pay for stuff that the government does

        I wonder if it’s failure to extrapolate.
        Every home/property owner gets a tax bill and a notice of the local tax rate. They pay local taxes every year, either directly or via mortgage escrow. In some places it’s actually defined: school tax, road tax, etc…
        Everyone where there’s a sales tax sees it on every receipt for everything they buy, from a cup of coffee to a car.
        But her W2 taxes are likely withheld; she never has the money; at the end of the year she files, and gets some back or has to pay some more. That doesn’t correlate directly with paying for an F-16 or an FBI salary or painting the White House fence. The connection is lost because of the sheer size and volume of federal spending.
        – “A billion here, a billion there, and soon you’re talking about real money.”
        – Sen Everett Dirksen (R) senate minority leader 1959-1969, during a budget fight

      • GeorgeBurnsWasRight

        People can have areas of massive ignorance and yet be skilled in other areas.

        About 20 years ago a fellow employee asked me to help her with an answering machine someone had bought her. She had taken the machine out of the box and set it on the table, and now it didn’t work at all. So first I took the wall wart and plugged it into an electrical outlet, and plugged the cord into the answering machine. Then I connected the phone line to the answering machine, and connected the piece of phone line that came with the to her phone. Showed her how to record a message, and how to tell if she had a message and how to play it back.

        She was amazed that anyone knew this highly technical stuff. And she was very good at her job, which was coordinating volunteer efforts by our parents at the school I worked at.

        OTOH, I’m stuck with trying to connect a new copier to the internet at my church. No doubt other people know exactly what they’re doing with this stuff, but I sure don’t.

        • The Pale Scot

          Press the blue WPS button on the router and wait 60 seconds

        • efgoldman

          She was amazed that anyone knew this highly technical stuff.

          Back in the 90s, every troubleshooting guide for every computer, printer, monitor, peripheral started with some version of “make sure the unit is plugged into an AC power source, such as a wall outlet.”
          It got to be a running joke between some of us and the IT help desk people.

      • People just compartmentalize information–they can watch an entire TV show about taxes and still not connect it to what they do year ’round, or what they do on April 15th. I still remember the ticket taker at Sturbridge village complaining that she wouldn’t vote for Kerry because he would “raise her taxes.” The entire discussion at that point had been raising taxes on people making over 250,000 a year. She wasn’t making 250,000 a year so she wouldn’t have been affected. But what political leaders say and what people hear are two different things–Kerry talking about taxes gave her a feeling that taxes were being discussed. Everything else was a detail that made no sense to her.

        • Hogan

          But what political leaders say and what people hear are two different things

          Blah blah blah raise blah blah taxes blah blah blah.

        • efgoldman

          Everything else was a detail that made no sense to her.

          The dreaded, evil “death tax.”
          I wish I had enough money that my heirs would have to pay it.

    • Domino

      Hate to be that guy, but your federal taxes do not actually fund any programs. Congress determines how much to spend for the year, and funds them that way. Taxes don’t go to a giant pool of money that gets distributed to other agencies. Social Security it kinda does, but it’s unique.

      Federal taxes are done to create a demand for US dollars. If you paid your taxes in cash, the cash would get shredded. After all, it did it’s job.

      • Srsly Dad Y

        Correct! Taxes are an accounting entry to offset the cash float by the Fed. But still, as a heuristic ….

        • Domino

          The confusion is understandable, since Local and State taxes actually do fund things. The Feds are unique due to issuing their own currency. Thus the “government is like a family budget” metaphor is wrong and stupid, and I wish there was an effort to educate people more about this.

          • Srsly Dad Y

            Indeed the fetishism around balancing the federal budget is what makes it heuristically true that federal revenues fund programs.

      • Redwood Rhiadra

        Hate to burst your bubble, but all of this is a lie. It’s how Modern Monetary Theory WISHES taxes would work. But MMT is not a description of the existing system.

  • Bruce Vail

    I don’t get it. I thought being married to a US citizen meant that you could live (with your spouse) legally in this country.

    • LeeEsq

      Its more complicated. Aliens who entered without inspection may generally not adjust status to lawful permanent resident status in the United States with a few exceptions. Even if you are married to a United States citizen, you need to enter with inspection in order to adjust unless you fall under INA 245(i), which few people do anymore.

    • Davis X. Machina
    • Gregor Sansa

      I was married for 10 years and my daughter was 9 before my wife could get a US visa. I was born in the US and my daughter’s a citizen.

      • LeeEsq

        If I remember correctly, your wife was trying to get a B-1 visa to visit the United States rather than LPR status via consular processing because of her high level job in Guatemala. USCIS does not like that.

    • Richard Gadsden

      At least you don’t have the minimum income requirement we have in the UK. The UK citizen spouse has to be earning a minimum of £18,600 (or have savings of £62,500) to be entitled to bring in a spouse. The non-citizen spouse’s income is not counted.

      After 2.5 years, the visa must be renewed and the same requirement applies (the non-citizen spouse can be deported if the visa is not renewed). However, the non-citizen spouse’s income can now be counted.

      After 5 years, the non-citizen spouse is now eligible for permanent residency (ILR), and there is no income requirement for ILR.

      The income requirement is increased if you have children.

      There are cases where a British citizen has married a foreign spouse, been earning enough money; they’ve had a child before the 2.5 years are up, they haven’t had enough pay rises to get above the higher threshhold, and the parent of a British citizen child, married to a British citizen is then denied a visa and deported.

  • Bugboy

    I had an interesting conversation with a chem-trails believer the other day. This was a person I’d already had a working relationship with, so there was a bit of trust she had for me. Being that I’ve got decades experience working with aerial spray systems, I briefly mentioned a few reasons why chem-trails aren’t a thing, chiefly that if you really wanted to spray people on the ground, you don’t do it at 30,000 feet, because it would never come down. And if it did, it would be in the next state.

    Her response was very illuminating: she said something about how she didn’t have time to really look into it, was really busy and had only “read about it someplace” which was apparently enough to convince her it actually WAS a thing.

    These people aren’t just low-information voters, they are all around low-information people. They have given up trying to filter the deluge of information life throws at them and are overwhelmed by it. So they just kind of skim the surface uncritically, taking everything at face value.

    I don’t really know what the solution to this is because every day we are expected by society to process more and more information, and I think people are reaching their capacity to process that information.

    • efgoldman

      was really busy and had only “read about it someplace” which was apparently enough to convince her it actually WAS a thing.

      Hmm. Good thing someone like that could never be elected president.
      Oh! Wait!!

      These people aren’t just low-information voters, they are all around low-information people.

      They are morons; incurious, willfully ignorant morons.
      I’m really not that smart, and I don’t play a professor on TV, but I know more than that just from high school – and that was well over 50 years ago.
      Hell, my late father in law, who never finished high school, and was an abusive racist bastard to boot, knew more than that.

      • Q.E.Dumbass

        motherfucker what the fuck save us black jeebus

      • The Pale Scot

        Tv and the internet are dumbing down the global IQ.

        My grannie had a 6th grade education. My dad described her and GP as “simple, simple people”

        But she read the Bayonne Times and the Jersey Journal every day, and talked about politics and news everyday with other union members at the lamp assembly factory.

        I’m confident that she was more practically aware than half of the adults in the nation today.

        • bender

          I think all of that is true.

    • It is a serious problem, because there is too much information out there for one person to be able to hope to absorb it all, but most people simply aren’t given the tools to discern what’s bullshit and what’s fact. I don’t have any idea how to fix it; I mean, yes, obviously improving our horrible education is the solution, but how do you fix it and prevent Republicans from fucking it up again next time they have power? I don’t know the answer to that.

      • lizzie

        This is the thing that gets me. Our society is so complex that it’s too much for most people, including me, to absorb. The only solution I can see is to try to choose competent, trustworthy people to run the government. Easier said than done, of course. But Trump is so very obviously neither of those things, and I just don’t understand how people could not see that. You don’t have to be that smart or particularly well informed to see that he is totally unfit to be president. I get that his voters have different political views from me, and that they’re going to choose someone whose views I find abhorrent. But I don’t get how they could be ok with such a manifestly unfit person as president.

        • efgoldman

          Our society is so complex that it’s too much for most people, including me, to absorb.

          Sorry, I don’t buy it.
          You keep some things and discard others.
          I couldn’t do a quadratic equation, or find a square root, anymore if my life depended on it. Same thing with basic chemistry and physics formulas, which I not only knew, but excelled at (this was in high school). My high school French is down to maybe five phrases, if I think about it really hard.
          But, dammit, I know how to read; I know how to write in plain English; I know the basics of how our political system is supposed to work and where and why it’s gone off the rails; I know the basics of history. As I said above, I’m not an especially smart or learned person.
          I also know that the two generations before mine (I didn’t know anyone older than my grandparents generation), many of them immigrants who came to this country with no English and no formal education, knew that basic stuff, many in a second, third, or fourth language.
          We are raising – have BEEN raising – a nation of ignoramuses. No wonder they vote for other ignoramuses. No wonder they’re more susceptible (and they were plenty susceptible before) to racist, sexist, xenophobic entreaties of the worst sort.
          I have no solution except Clockwork Orange style forced learning.
          Or, you know, actually educate kids.
          Nah, too simplistic.

          • GeorgeBurnsWasRight

            I know how to read

            The statistics on how few people ever read another book after they leave school are amazingly depressing.

            I realize how out of step I am with most people as increasingly web site articles are video only- no text accompanies the video. I hate this because I can read faster than people talk, plus if I’m reading something and need to think about what I just read, I simply stop reading for as long as it takes. With video, I have to stop the video and possibly rewind.

            • BiloSagdiyev

              My beef with it, among other things, is that we can put a man on the moon, and build an intertoobz, but make embedded videos actually worka. Maybe. It can take a lot of time just to get it all going, and now youtube has an ad for you, too.

              Ever learn about an issue by reading a long article in leftyland or real journalism world, only to see it bubble up in the MSM about three years later? You watch some show like 20/20 milk it slowwwly for an hour and just want to scream when you realize you read the article in 12 minutes and learned much more.

              • Domino

                We also live in a society where Peter Thiel, whose contribution to the species was building a convenient way to pay people for stuff online, pontificates about the future of humanity.

            • N__B

              The statistics on how few people ever read another book after they leave school are amazingly depressing.

              When the future Mrs__B moved in with me about 11 years ago, we threw a big party. Two of the guests were the architect who had designed the apartment I was living in (not for me, for the owner I was renting from) and her boyfriend. As I was giving boyfriend a drink, he gestured at the wall of books on bookcases and said “So you’ve, like, read all those?” I said “Half, tfMrs__B has read the other half.” He wandered off, shaking his head.

              • Hogan

                “My lips get awfully tired, though.”

              • tsam

                That’s….wtf man?

              • rlc

                I took an English Prof from Embry-Riddle U. down to show him our library… I dunno I thought he might be interested?

                He took a look at the hundreds of decent fiction (mostly paperback), along with lots of math, social science, and histories, and said, I kid you not:

                “Did you do work in the field?”

                I immediately replied, “no, we just thought that the colors of the spines of the books make an interesting artistic effect on the wall”.

                He did not get the joke.

              • vic rattlehead

                I mean, if you don’t like to read, de gustibus and all that, but what kind of incurious jackhole walks off *shaking his head* at the idea of other people reading books?

                • twbb

                  Maybe he was disappointed that OP had only read half of them.

            • Bugboy

              I too, HATE the endless fluffing of YouTube as the answer to all that ills you. I prefer reading as well, but I guess that takes too much effort for most people?

          • SNF

            We are raising – have BEEN raising – a nation of ignoramuses.

            This isn’t a problem with young people, at least not primarily. There are young people who are dumb, but it’s the old people who voted Trump in.

          • Bugboy

            “You keep some things and discard others.”

            The point you are missing, is that this is the problem: what do keep and what do you discard?

            You keep mentioning your ancestors. When your ancestors were being edumacated, the content of the world’s knowledge could fit in a set of encyclopedias. That is simply not the case any more.

            I’m guessing you don’t have kids of your own to see the inane amount of material they have to learn, to the point where the local Community Colleges are really just 13th and 14th grade? How to you educate when the content of that education is selected by committee?

    • Dennis Orphen

      The encroach of full Kornbluth is analogous to burning a candle at both ends and in the middle outwards simultaneously.

      1) Reproduction and survival of offspring is increasingly disconnected from fitness to survive in a technologically advanced and socioeconomically interdependent society.

      2) Those who are most fit to survive in such a society are the least likely to reproduce, and probably not even at their internal replacement rate, both because they have better things to do and understand that their own fitness is diminished by unnecessary or excessive reproduction.

      3) The aforementioned technologically advanced and socioeconomically interdependent society is increasingly difficult to understand and comprehend in the absolute sense, independent of factors 1 and 2 listed above.

      Events can have multiple causes, and sometimes those multiple causes can create feedback loops.

      • Chetsky

        full Kornbluth

        I’m curious — to what does this refer? C.M. Kornbluth? Something else?

        • Chetsky

          ETA: Ha! Of course — Marching Morons. Sorry, pls ignore.

          • Dennis Orphen

            The Space Merchants (with Fredrick Pohl) is relevant too.

            • BigHank53

              H. Beam Piper’s Day of the Moron falls into the same category. Breeder reactors! Unions! Ill-advised strikes conducted for egotistical purposes!

              I do wish we hadn’t lost Piper so early. He was writing stuff in the fifties that passed the Bechdel test. Plenty of explicitly non-white characters too.

          • GeorgeBurnsWasRight

            Never read that one, but his Little Black Bag has a similar point.

          • BiloSagdiyev

            Ah. I kept thinking of Herbert Kornfeld, who always kept it real.

            http://www.theonion.com/personalities/herbert-kornfeld-1019

    • Nick never Nick

      The funny thing is, I find myself turning into more of a low-information person as I get older. I read some passing reference to how antipersperants cause breast cancer or something like that, and told my wife we should stick to deodorant. “Eh, I should probably check that out,” I thought a few days later — turns out it’s some idiotic myth. There is just SO MUCH information available now, and I read a lot each day (work dull), that at some point you really do feel kind of overloaded and become undiscriminating.

      • The Pale Scot

        More like, I start reading an article in the NYT and stop after a paragraph because it’s the same old shit, just a different day.

        • efgoldman

          I start reading an article in the NYT and stop after a paragraph because it’s the same old shit, just a different day.

          Yeah. I used to really read the newspaper (in mt case, the Boston Globe) in dead trees, then on line. Now I just skim it.

      • bender

        I’ll make a tiny guess about where that came from. I used to use a particular brand of roll-on anti-perspirant (Mitchum’s?). One day I found a few bumps in my armpit. I was alarmed because I thought they were swollen lymph nodes, which could have been a symptom of metastasizing breast cancer.

        Turns out that Mitchum’s had particles of something, I think aluminum, in its formula, and those particles had blocked a few of my sweat glands. I switched to a deodorant and they went away.

        • bender

          The bumps went away, not my sweat glands. Edit button, we hardly knew thee.

    • DocAmazing

      One problem is the the level of background dumbness affects people who are not low-information types. I once was examining a one-year-old child, and the visit came around to the discussion of immunizations. Mom started crying. “I’m a biomedical researcher,” she said. “I know all about vaccines and how they work, but I hear so many horror stories and I’m just so scared!” We worked through it, and the child got her MMR, but it made me realize just how much the scare tales have penetrated. I imagine this effect can be seen in other fields, as well.

      • twbb

        Yep; I recently read a self-published book (for some research I’m doing on quackery) where the M.D. who authored it railed against the thimerasol in the MMR shot.

        The main problem, of course, being that the MMR vaccine never had thimerasol in it.

        What I’d really like to see is any physician who has ever said, in a medical context, “You are the best judge of the appropriate treatment for your child” have their license yanked.

    • tsam

      I don’t understand how something like the idea of chemtrails being a way to gas a population (you can see them remaining at pretty much their original altitude) doesn’t set off about 50 bullshit alarms for people. Like seriously–I’m not a physicist or a chemist, but when I read about this I just laughed.

      • Bugboy

        I think it has something to do with how you see them at times and not others, due to weather conditions favoring contrails formation. My mother (who was asking about it because my brother is a chem-trailer, or at least his wife is and he goes along to get along) asks “why don’t we see them all the time?”, so I tell her that’s it’s similar to why we only see rainbows occasionally, and people used to think THEY were magical, complete with leprechauns and a pot of gold…

        I can also attest that most people have little grasp of how aerosols work, and have a simplistic understanding of how aerial spraying works. Think agricultural crop dusting, where the droplets are big enough they fall out and cover the crop, they think that’s how all spraying works. It doesn’t matter that they can still see the con-trail up there, as you would think common sense would tell you.

  • PunditusMaximus

    I think we should consider denying the franchise to white people until we can prove we deserve it.

    • I’m on board with this. Also dudes. Note that, at least under the current classifications, I’d be barred under both cases. It’d probably still have beneficial effects regardless.

      • I’d also be on board forbidding everyone over 30 from voting, which would also exclude me. (A higher maximum age limit would also be acceptable, but most of the ones people would be likely to think of wouldn’t exclude me.) Old people do seem to vote a lot more awfully than younger people do.

        • …and let’s be honest: issues like climate change are going to have a lot more significance to young people than they are to older people. (stupid lack of edit button)

        • Dennis Orphen

          Max Frost for President!!!

          If you lived in a reddish rural area like I do you would say no one under 30 and no one over 65 or thereabouts.

          • John Revolta

            Bukowski (quoting from memory):

            The young people say “Don’t trust anybody over thirty”, and this is generally a good rule. By the time a person is thirty years old, they will probably have sold out. So, this being the case, HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO TRUST ANYONE UNDER THIRTY?

    • Lurking Canadian

      I think it’s only fair. White men had a 90 year head start, before Black men were allowed to vote (180 years in parts of the country) and a 140 year head start before women were allowed to vote.

      Seems clear that the best way to balance accounts is to let only women and minorities vote for a while. Jim Crow makes it hard to calculate exact terms, so round numbers let’s say no white men get to vote until 2100.

      Then we can start fresh.

    • Abbey Bartlet

      I have pitched this several times. Someone invariably gets the vapors.

  • Michael Cain

    I’m curious why a story about a family in Indiana (in a county on the Michigan border), that also mentions a case in Illinois, gets a headline about “the new West”.

  • Nick056

    This seems to me like a small-business owning family voting like small business owners instead of like illegal immigrants facing possible deportation, largely because they thought they had an arrangement that exempted them. Besides, they weren’t rapists or drug users. When Trump said he assumed some were “good people,” he meant them. And something tells me that these folks are not fans of Black Lives Matter.

    Oops. Would you like ICE with your Pepsi, lady?

  • Donna Gratehouse

    Abortion and immigration policy are similar in how many people just assume authority figures enforcing them will share their same values and nuanced views on lenience/punishment. A big mistake in both cases.

  • Just_Dropping_By

    I have no sympathy for this woman, but I’d love to be able to run a comparison of all the commenters in this and similar Trump Said What He Was Going To Do posts around here saying, “Stupid Trump supporters — he said he’d do this, so why didn’t you believe him” and all the commenters in this and similar Trump Lies About Everything posts saying, “Stupid Trump supporters — he lies about everything, so why did you believe him?” Because it’s a really ‘effing neat trick from any sort of intellectual honesty point.

    • sibusisodan

      It’s not really such a neat trick as you make out. Trump lies as far as the scope of problems and the efficacy of solutions are concerned. There are bad hombres, the wall will be beautiful, we will cover everyone’s healthcare.

      That is, he says whatever might help to bring about the desired result: his greater glory and power.

      Trying to do the things he said he would do is perfectly consistent with this.

      • Little Chak

        Why, it’s almost as if Just_Dropping_By lacks… intellectual honesty.

        Or else lacks the mental ability to differentiate between lying about factual realities of the world we live in, and lying about what you propose to do as President.

        Neither is flattering.

        • Q.E.Dumbass

          Why not both? After all, he said Trump’s being a Russian puppet meant he might have been better on Syria than HRC.*

    • It’s more that the shitgibbon doesn’t give a shit what the truth is; he just says what he thinks is likely to help him, regardless of whether it’s true or not. He couldn’t care less one way or the other what the truth is. He only “knows” one thing, and that’s how awesome he is; everything else he says is simply subservient to that one “fact”.

      • OTOH, people like that are easily manipulated. OTOH, by the time they’re 70 and have gotten everything they want for decades, they’re probably not going to change much.

  • Matt

    What does one even do with this story?

    Laugh. Trumpkins deserve everything they voted for, good and hard.

    • koolhand21

      Yea, well the way this works is that we all get it. Gorsuch will spend maybe 35-40 years as a reliably vicious radical on the Supreme Court with a now much higher probability of more Alito clones soon to join him. McConnell and Ryan intend to do their best to ignore the original intent of the Constitution as well as its explanatory texts in the Federalist Papers (especially the part about how bad Faction will be for the functionality of government.
      Mitch and Paulie are dead set on hardening the bunker of slave holding mentality which is the bedrock principle of today’s ‘conservative ‘ (see also reactionary i.e. Roman/Orthodox Catholic plus nominal enemies like Evangelicals etc.). States rights baby, unless such rights conflict with principles of ‘conservatives’.
      You see, we’re all fucked and have to hope enough voters wake up or realize that the ship of state is sinking and get more normality in 2018. Yea, me neither.

      • He (and everyone else the shitgibbon nominates in the future) can be impeached after it’s fully revealed just how complicit the Republicans were with Russia in stealing the election, and thus their nominations were on fraudulent grounds. Or we pack the courts. Whatever. Don’t give a fuck anymore. This is hardball. Fight fire with fire.

      • Docrailgun

        We had enough votes. The problem is that in some places, a bunch of morons thought that they would cast “protest votes” in supposedly safely blue states to show the Democratic Party that they shouldn’t be mean to Saint Sanders.

  • Docrailgun

    The best Blazing Saddles quote.

    • Thom

      There are a lot of great lines, though. Hard to choose.

      • GeorgeBurnsWasRight

        I wonder if the movie could get made today, and if it was, if it would be a success. My hunch is ‘no’ and ‘no’.

        • Srsly Dad Y

          Oh hell no

  • The Pale Scot

    Not to be cynical or anything.

    Cracker family is sad that cracker family member has married a Mexican.

    So what to do?

    Let’s clean him out by selling our restaurant to him and then getting him deported.

    So who’s gonna run the restaurant when he’s gone?

    “Until Roberto gets back, the restaurant is still open with his sister-in-law, Helen’s sister, and her husband are running things.”

    Wonder who is in charge of the books.

    Occam’s razor and all that

    • Srsly Dad Y

      Ghost of Elmore Leonard, is that you?

    • Dennis Orphen

      Not too far off from the grocer in Steinbeck’s The Winter of Our Discotheque Discontent.

    • Hawerchuk

      Assumes restaurants are profitable. Have never seen much evidence of that.

  • AMK

    The only way many of these people will learn a damn thing is through painful personal experience like this. The upside of Trump/Ryancare would have been inflicting real pain on enough of them to have a real chance at moving the needle.

    • BiloSagdiyev

      Alas, being dummies, they won’t change which party they vote for, they’ll must shake their fists and shout “gummint stoopid!” Or vote for the next Republican who can put a nice guy mask on it this time.

    • efgoldman

      The upside of Trump/Ryancare would have been inflicting real pain on enough of them to have a real chance at moving the needle.

      Sounds an awful lot like heightening those contradictions, Ms Sarandon.

  • revrick

    While it’s oh so easy to mock Trump voters getting hoisted on their own petards, I’m inclined to look at the systemic problems which made Trump possible and the danger that poses for our republic in the future.
    I’m reminded of the monograph by the late Yale political scientist, Juan Linz, on the Perils of Presidentialism. Linz argued that Presidential democracies are inherently unstable, and he enumerated a number of reasons why this is so. He observed that the one exception to this has been the US, and stated that what has kept us from toppling are several factors. First, our parties were ideologically amorphous and overlapping. Second, we had developed a series of norms and customs that ameliorated conflicts between the legislative and executive branches.
    Well, what’s happened since Linz wrote his monograph in 1980?
    Our parties are becoming increasingly polarized. The norms of increasing the debt ceiling, adopting budgets, voting on Presidential nominations, and seeking common ground in the realm of policy have been smashed.
    Linz warned that when the President and the Congress are in complete conflict, our system is vulnerable to populist outsiders riding in on white horses, proclaiming they are uniquely capable of solving the problems and will make our nation great again.
    Inevitably, the populist outsider fails, and then the country is ripe for a junta stepping in.

    • Wow, never thought I’d be on the side of a junta, but I never thought that th populist outsider would be Trump. Or are you saying that Trump and the Republicans are the junta that stepped in after populist outsider Obama “failed?”

      • revrick

        Oh, Trump is definitely the populist outsider. Obama was a regular politician trying to accomplish regular ends by regular means. With populist outsiders, there’s always the threat of violence, e.g. Chavez’s Venezuela. Juntas forgo the threat and move straight to violence to restore order.

  • Steve LaBonne

    We do have to remember that while most people do indeed have little understanding of how the government, or much of anything, works, evil people have also spent a lot of effort and money to actively mislead them.

  • BiloSagdiyev

    Not only are they allowed to vote, they’re allowed to buy unlimited guns and ammo.

    • revrick

      Which is perfectly in keeping with an authoritarian, Brownshirt mentality.

  • Abbey Bartlet

    What does one even do with this story?

    Feel awful for the husband and kids and laugh at her for getting exactly what her spiteful, selfish, racist ass deserves.

    • Dennis Orphen

      You’re so cold, you’re hot.

    • efgoldman

      Feel awful for the husband and kids and laugh at her for getting exactly what her spiteful, selfish, racist ass deserves.

      At the end of the day, I guess I feel awful for people caught in this trap as a group, for human reasons. But for every story like this, I’m pleased that the particular individual(s) found out that they fucked themselves over by their vote.
      In the case of people like the disabled lady in Georgia that insists she’d vote for Vermilion Vermin again, even though he’s proposed cutting off her Meals on Wheels which is her lifeline? Fuck her and the horse she rode in on, sideways with a rusty flaming chainsaw.

    • postpartisandepression

      same quote

      You laugh and you tell her to move to Mexico where she belongs. Feel sorry for the husband? Not one bit. Had he actually bothered to become a citizen he would have been right there voting the same way.

  • stonetools

    The only thing all of these “let’s try to understand the Trump voter” articles have done is to document that the Trump voters are indeed the callous dumb ass-holes we thought them to be. That some of them are experiencing the crap that the Trump Administration is inflicting on the vulnerable evokes no sympathy from me. Serves them right. I’ll save my sympathy for that class of voters entirely ignored by the press-the Clinton voters who got it right, but who are suffering nonetheless due to the stupidity of those who voted for Trump, or who enabled Trump by not voting for Clinton.

  • Harkov311

    Is it wrong of me to get a kind of morbid kick out of these “area numbskull surprised Spray-tan Mussolini doing exactly what he said he would do” stories?

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