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Today in Texas


So two hunters (not just hunters but hunting guides) shoot at each other, lie about it and blame undocumented immigrants “ambushing” them.

The punchline:

Texas Agriculture Commissioner Sid Miller cited the shooting as “proof” that the border wall proposed by President Donald Trump was needed.

When confronted about previous inaccurate Facebook messages, Miller said his social media posts shouldn’t be held to the same standard as those of a news organization ― but then cited a news organization in defense of himself.

“It’s like Fox News,” Miller told KUT radio. “I report and you decide if it’s true or not.”

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  • ΧΤΠΔ

    Texas is the Saudi Arabia of the United States, and Oklahoma is its Islamic Christianist Emirate. Discuss.

    • CP

      “If I owned hell and Texas, I’d live in hell and rent out Texas.”
      – General Sheridan.

      • ΧΤΠΔ

        Also: Since Florida is both the New Jersey of the South and California for ugly people, by extension Arizona is California for fucking idiots. I’m not convinced it isn’t actually an LBJ-supported hospice colony/life insurance scam run at the expense of geriatric racists.

        • pianomover

          Not just hunting guides but Christian hunting guides.

          • rea

            I personally do not approve of hunting Christians.

            • efgoldman

              I personally do not approve of hunting Christians.

              I dunno’. Certain “christians” in certain places need to be hunted down and captured before they harm themselves and others.

              • Ahuitzotl

                catch and not release

            • Well, not with projectile weapons. But there’s no finer sport than setting out at dawn on one’s field hunter, following one’s local Hunt Master and his pack of lions from a meet to a scent, from a scent to a view, from a view to a kill in the morning; and then retiring to a hunt breakfast with Bloody Marys all around!

            • Hogan

              One fishes for Christians.

              • One fishes for Christians.


              • Woodrowfan

                shotguns make fishing much easier. Although the reverse is not true, a rod and reel are awful for trying to land a moose.

                • a rod and reel are awful for trying to land a moose.

                  Not if you think big.

                • Hogan

                  Not as easy as dynamite.

                • tsam

                  I’m not going to tell you the embarrassing story of why I know this, but don’t shoot things in the water with shotguns.

                • rhino

                  Blew a hole in the rubber dinghy, did we?

            • Stag Party Palin

              I personally do not approve of hunting Christians.

              I don’t believe in hunting Christians or in sacrificing virgins* but damned if can find any either these days.

              * male or female

        • Mike G

          Arizona is California’s human dumpster.

          • ΧΤΠΔ

            I’m thinking the rest of this subthread should be a Magary-style Why the Fuck Does Your State Suck?

            • LosGatosCA

              Outstanding suggestion! New thread please.

              I’m happy to post why other states suck.

        • vic rattlehead

          Since Florida is both the New Jersey of the South

          I take umbrage! As a native Floridian (born and raised, lived there the first 18 years of my life) and someone who has worked full-time in New Jersey the past few years, has spent a considerable amount of time here the past near decade (wife’s family) including time on the shore – I will tell you if given the choice, I’ll take Jersey any day. Even a winter day (which usually aren’t too bad). Despite the stereotypes, not such a bad place!

          • ΧΤΠΔ

            Well I’ve lived in Florida from ’98 to now, so. (And “California for ugly people” is entirely accurate).

            Also, here’s my stance on why “Florida Sucks” (all in good fun, of course): The crus of the state is a national embarrassment and should either be ceded to Alabama or nuked into oblivion. The shaft has a high proportion of decent-enough human beings, but enough golf club-wielding savages turned out for Meth-Popping Fuckshit that the rednecks to the West turned us red this cycle. The glans is considered our biggest draw, but is hoping against hope that the melting ice caps submerge it more or less permanently. (Not to mention that it’s a glorified graveyard; serves as the base of operations for tabloids who land somewhere between the NY Post and the average British rag; and that our pols are on average as ethical as the CEOs of said tabloids.)

            • vic rattlehead

              Heh I wasn’t really offended. Although, denigrate Florida all you want, fuck if I care-I left for a reason. I was just sticking up for Jersey.

              • ΧΤΠΔ

                I too plan to decamp for the New York/New Jersey area as soon as possible. (Or California).

                • vic rattlehead

                  Let me know if you do!

                • My plan was originally the D.C. area, but at this point any blue state where I can find a decent-paying job will be near the top of my list. It’ll be a couple of years, though; it’d be more expensive to finish my degree as an out-of-state student, and I don’t fancy going through the transfer process again (especially since some of my credits probably wouldn’t carry over). If I stay in the country, my list probably will look something like D.C., CA, NY/NJ, Chicago, any other blue state. (Jersey jokes are funny, but I actually kind of like the place.) Of course, at this point I may very well end up having to leave the country entirely.

                • vic rattlehead

                  Jersey is great! I hope you make it up here.

                • Thanks. I suspect an awful lot will depend upon how things go in the next few years. I’d kind of like to be able to remain here and make a difference, but at the same time I’m feeling increasingly unsafe about continuing to live in a red state if things keep going down the road the way they’ve been going lately. At least I have reasonable faith that a state like CA or NY would try to fight for people like me if the federal government starts targeting us. I have to think it can’t keep getting worse forever, but this timeline does seem to keep finding new ways to surprise me unpleasantly, which is another reason it’s the Darkest Timeline.

                • ChrisS

                  Ideally, we should gather 300-500,000 folks from NY and CA and move to Idaho and Wyoming.

                  An easy way to get four new senators.

          • cpinva

            in the short amount of time I’ve spent in NJ (mostly as a kid, camping on the shore for a couple of weeks), I learned that the world’s largest and most vicious mosquitos are indigenous to NJ’s shore. these mosquitos make Count Dracula and his cohorts look like Red Cross Blood Drive volunteers by comparison. they don’t harmlessly splat on your windshield, they actively and aggressively attack that windshield as a well organized group, determined to break through to the tasty morsels sitting scared shitless inside.

            we got to the campground very late at night, and it was raining on and off, all the way up, from VA to Atlantic City. the office would open in a few hours, so we were going to sleep in the car until then. we started to hear what sounded like sleet or hail, hitting & bouncing off the car. it turned out to be the biggest, nastiest looking mosquitos I’ve ever seen in my life. these things could grab small children/animals off the ground, and carry them back to their castle, food for their young. I’m surprised no one’s ever made a grade B horror movie about them.

            • witlesschum

              Unless you’ve spend time in Upper Michigan, I remain skeptical of your Jersey mosquitoes. In any case, mosquitoes are nothing compared to black flies.

    • Downpuppy

      Texas is just Baja Oklahoma

    • wengler

      Oklahomans hate being compared to Texans, until one of them finds out they are moving to Texas and excitedly tells everyone.

  • King Goat

    Hm, but what would that make Alabama?

    • tsam

      The love interest. They broke up, but Alabama said they could still be cousins.

      • ΧΤΠΔ

        MS and AL would be Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan, I presume. Indiana and Iowa are already the Mississippi and Alabama of the Midwest.

        • Jeff (no,theotherone)

          Alabama and MS could form the rest of the love rhombus.

          I think we’re mainly the testing ground for various big pharma and arms manufacturing corporations.

    • cpinva

      “Hm, but what would that make Alabama?”

      home to the world’s largest population of gnats. I found this out, the first time I visited NASA’s Manned Space Flight Center, in Huntsville, which you should definitely also visit, should you ever have reason to be in the area otherwise. The full tour package includes a bus tour around the facilities, with stops at specific buildings. it would take about (maybe) 10 seconds to go from the bus to the various building’s entrances, and then back when leaving. in that 10 seconds (each way), huge swarms of black gnats would descend on us, getting in our hair/clothes/etc. by the time we got back to the main building, every time we moved, gnats would fall from us.

      • sibusisodan

        Huntsville Space Centre is awesome. Do not recall any gnats though.

  • Judas Peckerwood

    Don’t blame me — I heard in from FOX News Facebook the voices in my head!

    • Hogan

      I was given this information.

  • Murc

    I don’t get why people can’t just admit they done fucked up.

    Well, I mean… I do get it. But I’ve sort of learned over the years that unless it is something truly egregious, like “accidentally knocked a cinderblock off a building and it killed a man” egregious, people actually think way MORE of you if you admit it. “Oh yeah, that was on me; my bad. I fucked up there” will usually get the response of “Okay then. Fair enough.” Whereas trying to spin a transparently bullshit explanation of why you didn’t actually fuck up just generates a huge argument and a lot of contempt.

    • CP

      Never underestimate the amount of dumb pride floating around in our society.

      • Origami Isopod

        Dumb pride, egotism, narcissism, parents who instilled a mortal fear of ever making mistakes…

      • Mike G

        There’s an ugly strain in Southern and/or Republican culture where you never, ever admit a mistake.

        GW Bush had it bad. in an interview the only mistake he would admit to in his presidency was sometimes trusting the wrong people, which is a classic bullshit not-mistake.

        • Origami Isopod

          There’s an ugly strain in Southern and/or Republican culture where you never, ever admit a mistake.

          The “honor culture” value of “saving face.”

          • kenkohl

            If they wanted to ‘save face’, I’d rather they try seppuku

            • so-in-so

              Then they should have reloaded and fired again.

          • Anna in PDX

            Yes! I lived in that type of culture for years and this is a really big problem with the value system there. It keeps people from learning new things and really holds them back. Let alone the asshole effect.

        • NeonTrotsky

          I always love when politicians or business leaders say something along the lines of “mistakes were made” careful to not specific who exactly was making said mistakes.

          • cpinva

            “careful to not specify* who exactly was making said mistakes.”

            *I assumed the original was a typo.

            more importantly, no mention is ever made of what plans were in process to ensure said mistakes weren’t repeated.

        • CP

          There’s an ugly strain in Southern and/or Republican culture where you never, ever admit a mistake.

          It came out really bad around 2009 when, after destroying an entire country in the Middle East, leading to the deaths of over a hundred thousand people, these people all became outraged at the very suggestion that Obama had “apologized” for the war.

          I don’t even know what the fuck to do with that level of sociopathy. When you’ve caused that many deaths through your own stupidity, whether or not you owe an apology isn’t even a question: the much more relevant questions are what you’re going to do to make up for it and how you’re going to ensure that it doesn’t happen again. But no. A hundred thousand people dead, and the only thing those fucking narcissists can think of is that the Kenyan Usurper made them feel bad by bringing it up.

    • Captain Oblivious

      Apparently these “gun experts” have never heard of ballistics forensics.

      • Murc

        I know a number of actual firearms experts, people who can look at the proof marks on a barrel shank and tell you where it was manufactured and its entire import and export history.

        They largely hold the good’ol boy gun culture in deep and withering contempt, and regard them as dangers to themselves and others.

        • CrunchyFrog

          My late step-father was such a person. An avid gun hobbyist, he looked down on all of the gun nuts who became so prevalent starting with the Reagan era and learned to avoid certain gun shows, gun ranges, and popular hunting spots because of their complete disregard for safety. He’d make fun of them and their intelligence (“dumbshits” was his favorite term for them). As a part time gunsmith he’d fixed thousands of their guns and knew all about their firearm habits because of it.

          He was also an atheist to the core and in the 1970s and 1980s abhorred the Xtianist right wing, considering them as dangerous in their own way as the new breed of gun nuts.

          And yet, a southerner by birth, he was also racist-to-the-core in the most extreme way as was his family. As the Reagan-Fox News era progressed this created certain conflicts within him. On the one hand, the dumbshit gun nuts and the Xtianists were people he looked down on as stupid and dangerous. On the other hand, they were on his side in the undeclared race war.

          In the end, he succumbed to the power and force of his tribe. Even started doubting evolution in his waning years despite having been a volunteer museum biology lecturer for years. Still avoided the “new kids on the block” gun ranges, but had a rationale for that like everything else.

          • Rob in CT

            Example the eleventy millionth of how racist makes you dumb. Ugh.

          • CP

            Tribalism is a hell of a drug.

            • LosGatosCA

              It’s not a drug it’s the fiber of their being

    • efgoldman

      Whereas trying to spin a transparently bullshit explanation of why you didn’t actually fuck up just generates a huge argument and a lot of contempt.

      Not necessarily. It’s Texas, where THE GOVERNOR publicly wondered whether a routine, annual Army exercise (Jade Helm) really WAS preparing detention camps under closed WalMarts.

      • Jeff (no,theotherone)

        “SHH! that’s what they WANT us to think! Jade Helm was just a test run!”

    • Rob in CT

      They want to believe this stuff because if true, it would help justify the awful things they want do (or have others do for them).

      • CP


        The Hannah Arendt insight was that ridiculous things like “the Jews control society” aren’t what they think is true, they’re what they think would HAVE to be true to justify what they want to do anyway.

        • helkamet

          Don’t forget the religion. “I can profess my subjugation to god”, thus they can violate any of the commandments and still be saved when they die. If they have any doubts on this score killing the unbelievers, who must be spawns of satan, will result in God’s forgiveness and their salvation.

          • cpinva

            heck, they started an entire religion (the Southern Baptist Church), solely to give the “peculiar institution” a “Christian” justification for existing. that’s one big reason it’s (I do believe) the single largest protestant denomination, in the confederate states: it can be used to provide a “Christian” justification for any disgusting thing these people want to do.

    • Davis

      It is indeed strange, given that the GOP is the party of personal responsibility.

      • CP

        And North Korea is democratic, popular, and a republic, if we’re to believe self-identification…

        • Just_Dropping_By

          I though North Korea was democratic, peopled, and a republic?

          • efgoldman

            I though North Korea was democratic, peopled, and a republic?

            I believe the plan is slowly but surely to get rid of the people.

          • bs


      • Dennis Orphen

        Barack Obama is personally responsible for everything bad that happens and everything we don’t like (which are not always the same thing).

        The Republican Party is a Criminal Organization, nothing more, nothing less.

      • cpinva

        “It is indeed strange, given that the GOP is the party of personal responsibility.”

        and well it is, just not any of their personal responsibility. like the “family values” they often toss out, to show just how righteous they all are, while neglecting to mention the “family” they got those “family values” from was the Gambinos.

    • Procopius

      I agree, I’ve always found the outcome is a lot better for me if I don’t try to alibi my way out, but I was taught, both in high school band and in the NCO Academy, in the methods of instruction course, if you suddenly realize you made a mistake, don’t react, just keep going. If you’re lucky, nobody will have noticed; even if they notice, they won’t want to attract attention to themselves by pointing it out. Of course that doesn’t work if your mistake lands somebody in the hospital.

  • Well I give Miller credit for correctly understanding the meaning of the Fox News slogan.

    • i8kraft

      Yeah, really giving up the game there.

    • John Revolta

      Hilarious. Though, I’d hone it down a bit more: “We report, you decide to believe it”.

      • busker type

        I prefer “We report you. Decide!”

        Captures the authoritarian streak I think.

  • humanoid.panda

    One of my favorite movies is a Russian flick by the name of Peculiarities of the National Hunt. It’s about a bunch of Russian men who try to go hunting, but spend their time drinking and trying to womanize, only to end shooting a cow in the final scene of the movie. I feel like a remake of that in an American setting would be a major hit.

    • cdevine

      “And there’s ten stuffed heads in my trophy room right now,
      Two game wardens, seven hunters, and a pure-bred guernsey cow.”

      • “People ask me how I do it
        And I say there’s nothing to it
        You just stand there looking cute
        And when something moves, you shoot!”

    • Probably an urban legend but I have heard stories of farmers in Pennsylvania painting “cow” on the side of their cows during deer season.

      • kenkohl

        Not an urban legend. Saw a “cow” outside of Bradford, PA several year ago.

        • rea

          Cow-owners did this all the time in my youth in New Mexico. Didn’t help.

      • West

        This was a thing as far back in the 70s, when I was a teen there. Some would paint “Cow” in dayglo orange. Others would buy large quantities of the material from which road crews’ work vests are made – at least two hardware stores I knew of carried this in huge rolls – and they’d cut and drape segments over the cows, tied under the bellies and around necks, to create simple reflective cow vests.

        The cows would still get shot sometimes.

        There was one Amish farmer over in Lancaster County who would set up a fresh fake deer each hunting season. It’d be a real half-assed thing that he’d do fresh; being brown and having antler-like decorations would be the main similarity. He’d keep score of how many times it’d get shot and post the score on a big board. I forget what road this was on, but it was like a local attraction. All the hunter types would swear up and down that the hunters were only shooting it for a laugh, which I suppose might be true….

        • efgoldman

          Is it true that first day of deer season is a school holiday in much of PA?

          • helkamet

            The first day of antlered deer season is the monday after thanksgiving (it gies on for 3-4 weeks).

          • witlesschum

            This was true in Upper Michigan when I was growing up. Then they changed it to there being school, but deer hunting was an excused absence.

          • ChrisS

            It was in NY as well until the state move opening day to a Saturday.

      • guthrie

        I read about it in Steinbeck’s “Travels with Charley”, which was published in 1961. So the idea or practise goes back a long way.

      • Ahuitzotl

        There’s a photo floating around somewhere of a number of deer on a venison farm, with COW painted on their sides in dayglo.

        I’d like to think the deerfarmer was just having a joke, but ..

    • Downpuppy
      • Linnaeus

        Say yah to da U.P. eh!

  • Bitter Scribe

    For me the best part is that one of the nitwits, who has no health insurance, raised $20K+ on GoFundMe to pay to get his wounds treated.

    He don’t need no stinkin’ Obamacare!

    • Davis

      I wonder how he feels about being a charity case. Horrible, I hope.

      • so-in-so

        Probably not, there was also the sheriff who railed against Obamacare, then ended up on Go-Fund-Me. And most of the donations came from liberals with a note “this is why we need the ACA”. Except the conservatives who commented were all “see, we don’t need no stinking government health care”, like 20 million people can use donation sites to pay for their medical care.

  • ChrisS

    This blew up on the hunting forums I frequent. It sounded fishy to me from the beginning, but it hit all of the right notes for the pure believers. Even when a local posted some information that these guys were lying, the true believers were holding firm.

    Now, I’m sure they’ll just say that very fact that the story is believable to them is enough evidence to build that wall.

  • Forget it Jake. It’s Texas.

    • Mike G

      The only way this story could be more Texan is if they shot each other from jacked-up pickup trucks in a Wal-Mart parking lot.

      • Mike G

        While an uninspected fertilizer factory exploded in the background.

        • GeorgeBurnsWasRight

          From a stray round fired by a guy who had just said, “Hold my beer, wouldja?”

  • Now, I’m sure they’ll just say that very fact that the story is believable to them is enough evidence to build that wall.

    Hell, the very fact that the story is believable to them may beenough evidence to the Mexicans that Mexico should, in fact, build a wall—to keep the Texans out.

    • Procopius

      Given the number of Americans fleeing to Canada now, the wall may have to be repurposed. You know, the original Berlin Wall was justified as a measure to keep those fascists and capitalist running dogs out of the socialist paradise.

  • Reminds me of an old joke where a hunter calls 911

    “I was hunting with my buddy and I think I accidentally killed him!”

    “Calm down sir. First make sure he’s really dead.”

    (sound of gunshots)

    “OK, now what?”

    • keta

      Two men from West Virginia, Billy and Jimmy, go hunting. Billy says to Jimmy, “Shoot at any deer that moves.”

      They both go to different tree stands. Billy realizes he forgot his smokes and goes to ask Jimmy for a cigarette. When Jimmy sees something coming towards him, he shoots Billy.

      Jimmy takes Billy to the hospital. Later, the doctor comes into the waiting room and Jimmy asks, “Will he be okay, Doc?”

      The doctor says, “Well, he might’ve been if you hadn’t field-dressed him in the woods.”

    • Woodrowfan

      (on phone) now throw the bodies in the pool!
      What pool?
      (pause) um, is this 937-222-2990??

  • gyrfalcon

    “Build a US-Mexico border wall” is IMHO in the same class of statements as “So can we just let the South secede already?” — a facile and thought-free opinion that doesn’t fix any of the problems it purports to address, and in fact creates a whole raft of new ones that terrify any sane person. But at least it makes the guy on the other side even worse off than you, supposedly!

    The difference is that “let the South secede” is uttered only in Internet comments, not as a campaign promise or a policy statement; and if some public servant actually advocated for it as public policy, progressives would be at the forefront of asserting why it was such a horrible horrible idea and its proponents needed to be shamed out of office.

    • Go Texas! (and take Mississippi with you)

    • CP

      The difference is that “let the South secede” is uttered only in Internet comments, not as a campaign promise or a policy statement; and if some public servant actually advocated for it as public policy, progressives would be at the forefront of asserting why it was such a horrible horrible idea and its proponents needed to be shamed out of office.

      This is Democrats/Republicans in a nutshell.

      It’s not that I can’t think of ideas I’ve heard on my side of the aisle that are so painfully stupid they could’ve come from a Republican, but there’s also enough common sense on my side that those ideas don’t make it to the stage of actual policy proposal. As opposed to Republicans, whose policy proposals are increasingly nothing but that.

      • busker type

        yup…there are lots of nutty left-liberal ideas, but they have zero support at the actually-has-some-power level.

    • efgoldman

      The difference is that “let the South secede” is uttered only in Internet comments, not as a campaign promise or a policy statement

      If I were campaigning….

      Welcome. I quit Drum before the election because of trollfestation. I imagine it’s calmed down a bit.

  • Lizzy L

    “I report and you decide if it’s true or not.”

    Except that you are LYING. It’s not a “report” if you are LYING. It’s a fiction, a fantasy, it’s make believe.

    *wanders away to beat head against the wall multiple times.*

    Not my own head, of course.

  • Colin Day

    How incompetent! Cheney would never get shot by his hunting partner!

  • tsam
  • petemack

    I actually think Miller’s comment is a self-deprecating joke. It’s the shooting that’s bizarre. How on earth did they manage to shoot each other like that? Mistake each other as terrorists crossing the border?

    • Mellano

      Coor’s Lite is a helluva drug.

    • witlesschum

      If you click all the way through, the shootings happened at night at a ranch building, not while they were actually out hunting. The claim was that “Mexicans” were trying to steal an RV one of the shot idiots was staying in near a ranch building, but the cops and Border Patrol found no one else for miles around but the idiots, using both thermal imaging while it was dark and then trackers when it got light.

      Maybe they stayed up around the camp fire telling scary Obama stories and the right wing paranoia and/or booze took over and someone started shooting at something they thought was probably a Mexican/Muslim/ISIS/UN Commando Squad and then someone shot at the shooter. Maybe it was a fellow idiot walking around outside where they weren’t expected to be or maybe it was a particularly nefarious bush.

      Morons plus guns equals fun!

  • witlesschum

    As someone who hunts deer (did you know you can make corned venison?) and grew up with it, I have complete contempt for people who hunt on game ranches and am pretty suspicious of anyone who engages a hunting guide in general. If you look at these idiots’ website, they guarantee 100 percent success in hunting some overgrown sheep thing I’ve never heard of. That’s not hunting, fuck them.

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