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Today in Trump’s America



I imagine the lynchings begin soon.

A Texas mosque was set on fire just hours after Trump signed an executive order restricting migration from Muslim-majority countries.

The Islamic Center of Victoria was set on fire around 2 a.m. on Saturday, according to local reports.

Victoria Fire Marshal Tom Legler told the Victoria Advocate he had no theories about the cause of the fire, but he is seeking assistance from state and federal fire investigators.

“It’s a house of worship,” Shahid Hashmi, the president of the center, told the Victoria Advocate, as he watched the center burning. Hashmi also said he will not speculate about the cause of the fire, but mentioned the center was burglarized last week.

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  • The biggest question I have is whether the lynchings will precede or follow the pogroms. (Gallows humour is one of the few coping mechanisms I have left.)

    I could never have imagined that things would get this horrible.

    • Nobdy

      I knew it would get bad but did not expect it to go this far in one week. It’s still January! Obama could have bought milk for the White House that hasn’t gone bad yet!

      Our institutions are buckling immediately under the onslaught. Those who expected the constitution or the congress or the “deep state” to make this a long process and give us a chance to fight back are going to have some serious rethinking to do.

      • There are only two things that haven’t yet been as bad as I thought they might get: people haven’t been rounded up into camps yet and there hasn’t been a nuclear war. There’s still four years of this shit, though.

        • Nobdy

          Even the Nazis sisn’t our people into camps and start wars on day 1.

        • DrDick

          He is just getting warmed up. Give him a couple of weeks.

      • vic rattlehead

        Didn’t Obama say that he would speak out if Trump started doing things that he felt threatened American/democratic values?

        I realize he might still be on vacation but…you have a platform a lot of us don’t! People listen to you…

        • What is he supposed to say? Trump and the Republicans bought this America and we are all going to pay for it. Things are going to get worse before they get better. Do you really think that Americans need Obama to point out how fucked we are? We are already woke and fighting back, or we need to hit rock bottom like a drunk before we get our shit together.

          • vic rattlehead

            Do you really think that Americans need Obama to point out how fucked we are?

            No I don’t, which is why I didn’t say that.

            I think he is uniquely suited, due to his talents and high profile, to say something. A lot of people are running scared, and are getting no reassurance from Trump’s gang of thugs. He can condemn the immigration EO – that would be defensible, it might reassure some people who are scared of Trump even if he has no formal power.

            • drahthaar

              Daddy isn’t going to save us.

              • vic rattlehead

                It’s a good point. Debs had it right “I would not lead you into the promised land if I could, because if I led you in, some one else would lead you out. You must use your heads as well as your hands, and get yourself out of your present condition.”

                But I’m not expecting him to be a savior, that’s a bit of a strawman. The fact that I think it would be helpful of him to speak up when things are looking bad does not mean I think that he can single-handedly save us.

                • drahthaar

                  Yes – I had that Debs quote in mind.

                  You may not, but there are plenty of people who DO expect him to be a savior.

                  And, for what it’s worth, Obama speaking out now would be inconsistent with his preferred strategy of leading from behind.

            • catclub

              I think he is uniquely suited, due to his talents and high profile, to say something.

              Any EO can be over-ridden by subsequent legislation.
              Any EO Trump has signed, the rest of the GOP wants to stand.

              • vic rattlehead

                I’m not seeing how this is inconsistent with what I’ve said. In fact, this comment is quite the non sequitur. I’m not calling for Obama to wave a magic wand, no matter how aggressively some may try to falsely attribute positions to me. I just think his would be a useful voice.

    • vic rattlehead

      At this point I don’t think it’s humor anymore. The Nazis are clearly growing more empowered. I don’t think it’ll take much more from Bannon before the scumbags feel like they will be able to use “self-help” (and the 2nd Amendment) to start rounding up/eliminating “undesirables.” If we don’t stay as active as we were last week and continue pushing back, I think it’s inevitable.

      I would fail any Nazi purity test given my Jewish grandfather. I am seriously going to look into how I can fuck off to Israel, and pack a bug out bag in case I need to fucking hightail it.

      • Same here, right down to my grandfather also being Jewish.

      • Nick never Nick

        The targeted group today is Muslims. Political organization will help them, not everyone indulging in packing their personal bug-out bags. Your Jewish grandfather puts you in exactly zero danger today.

        • Today. First they came for the Muslims…

          • Scott P.

            So let’s make sure it stops right now and tomorrow never comes.

          • Nick never Nick

            That’s good — the most important thing right now if for people who are in zero danger to start worrying about the very faint chance that Trump’s policies are going to imitate those of a different country, 80 years ago.

            It’s particularly dumb on an article about a mosque being burned down by racists. Do you imagine that the people who did that have a list of people with one Jewish grandfather who are next?

            • I don’t know if you noticed, but Trump’s policies are already imitating those of another country 80 years ago, and his chief strategist is an overt white supremacist who uses a label invented by a literal neo-Nazi to describe himself. It’s also not as though I haven’t expressed concern for Muslims or immigrants from Islamic countries, considering that my first comment here addressed the possibility of lynchings and pogroms and I made several comments in multiple other threads about my concern for an Iranian expatriate friend of mine and asking for advice on what I could do to help her. But thanks for the insult and the concern trolling.

              • I should also add that it will be literally impossible for me to help anyone if I am dead or deprived of freedom. I can do far more from another country if I’m alive and free to help people here than I can if I’m dead or powerless here.

            • vic rattlehead

              Oh really, moron? Perhaps you missed the minor matter that the relevant Executive Order was signed on Holocaust Remembrance Day? You may have also missed that Trump’s statement failed to mention Jews at all.

              Here’s the bottom line, fuckhead. Unless you’re a member of a group that Bannon et al have in their crosshairs, you have no fucking business lecturing people who are. Jesus. I can’t believe I need to say this on LGM.

              Just another white dude who feels like he’s entitled to lecture people. Nothing to see here guys, move along.

              • Nick never Nick

                Sorry I hurt your feelings — but I dislike the sight of privileged people trying to claim victim status. Your Jewish grandfather puts you in no crosshairs at all.

                • Like hell it doesn’t. Bannon is a basically self-admitted neo-Nazi, and there have been several waves of bomb threats against synagogues, not to mention constant swastika graffiti. This is not the same country it was a year ago for us. Jews no longer have white privilege in this country.

                • ZakMcKrackenAndTheAlienMindbenders

                  I mean I’m pretty new here, and this is an awkward way to introduce oneself to people, but let me just add a “Fuck your dumb bullshit,” of my own.

                • vic rattlehead

                  I repeat – you are just another white guy who feels entitled to lecture people.

                  Don’t you live in Canada? Even richer. What a sanctimonious piece of shit you are.

                • Nick never Nick

                  Are you bunch of self-declared martyrs even aware that the only country to support Trump’s actions is Israel?

                  Edit: you’re right, I did forget Russia.

                • You’re forgetting Russia.

                  I’m also aware that Israel is the only country on the planet where neo-Nazis are all but guaranteed never to control the government. If I’m going to run away from neo-Nazis, I only want to have to do it once. Furthermore, if enough of us American Jews leave for Israel, Likud will never win another election.

                • Nick never Nick

                  If you’re outraged at discrimination against Muslims, Israel is a very strange choice of refuge.

                • Because obviously, immigrating to a country means that you agree with all of its government’s policies and won’t do anything to try to change them.

                  I would be able to do far more to address Israel’s discrimination against Muslims as an Israeli citizen living in Israel than I could possibly hope to do as an American, and if I lived there, that is one of several things I would be focusing on.

                • Nick never Nick

                  Fair enough, you’re right about that.

                • vic rattlehead

                  Oh I love this. Lecturing someone who might have to flee a pogrom on the choice of country to flee to.

                  When/if I became a citizen of Israel, I could perhaps organize against settlements and the like.

                  But then, I have to think about the self-righteousness of white guys who would be safe and sound where they are. Hm, yes.

                  Once again, a comfortable white man who feels entitled to lecture others about whether they should fear oppression, and the steps they take to preserve their lives.

                  Even if it’s only a hypothetical at this point, what a pathetic, morally bankrupt human you are.

                • nixnutz

                  I know I’m going to read every post this motherfucking asshole posts here in the future in the light of how he chose to honor Holocaust Remembrance Day. Mocking Jews for fearing the rise of fascism.

                  If you choose to keep posting here motherfucker keep in mind that everyone here knows exactly what you are.

                • efgoldman

                  Israel is the only country on the planet where neo-Nazis are all but guaranteed never to control the government.

                  True, in name.
                  But we’re seeing an awful lot of fascist tendencies there, too.

                • We are. But if I have to live somewhere with authoritarian tendencies, I want it to be somewhere where I’m not going to be on the wrong side of those tendencies. After 2016, I’m not prepared to say that any country is immune to electing authoritarians, particularly after how successfully Russia ratfucked our elections. If they could do it to us, there’s no reason they can’t do it elsewhere.

                  Plus, as I’ve already said, it’d be easier to resist their fascist tendencies there, and if enough of us move there, Likud will no longer win elections.

            • Gator90

              No, what’s important is arrogantly lecturing others about how they should feel.

              Does it really surprise you that some Jews or people with Jewish ancestry might get a little nervous when things start getting ugly in their country of residence? Really?

              • humanoid.panda

                As someone Jewish, yes I understand being a little nervous. The play-acting on this thread is not that.

                • No one thinks that we’re going to be rounded up into camps next week. But this is alarmingly similar to how things started in 1933. The Holocaust didn’t start in earnest until the 1940s. Anyone with Jewish ancestry who isn’t thinking about an exit strategy now isn’t thinking far enough ahead. It may not ever be necessary, but if it is, it’s better to be prepared.

                • Hell, I’m a Nordic white guy and I am planning an exit strategy in case they start going after political opponents and academics. My wife’s mother immigrated from Ireland so she can get a passport. I mean, if you have any kind of possibility, it actually makes some sense to line it up, just in case. And yes, it’s a sign of privilege that such a thing is open to some and not others.

                • humanoid.panda

                  Let me tell you this: I feel infinetely safer and at home as a leftist/liberal in America, even in Trump’s America, than in Israel. Here we can still win. There, we can’t.

                • We can’t win with it in its current state, true, but if current conditions here continue, a diaspora of American Jews to Israel is quite possible, and that would change matters there irrevocably.

                • Snuff curry

                  The play-acting on this thread is not that.

                  Fuck you, fuckball.

        • vic rattlehead

          Your comment is useless and insulting. I will do what I can to organize to help Muslims and refugees. But if we fail, I am a member of a group they will come for next. So go fuck yourself.

        • humanoid.panda

          The targeted group today is Muslims. Political organization will help them, not everyone indulging in packing their personal bug-out bags. Your Jewish grandfather puts you in exactly zero danger today.

          Let me just say this as a Jew, a (former) Israeli, a Lieutenant (res.) in the IDF ,and as someone on the way to my local airport to protest this shit, that I am 1000% with Nick. All this talk about Nazis coming for American Jews and packing bags is nothing but disgusting display of privileged people playing make believe.

          • Perhaps you missed that one of the Nazis is Tangerine Trujillo’s chief political advisor, and that he issued an executive order banning Muslim immigration on Holocaust Memorial Day and didn’t once mention Jews. Not to mention the slate of bomb threats against and swastika graffiti on synagogues. Anyone who doesn’t think we might be in danger is living in a fantasy world.

          • humanoid.panda

            And for fuck’s sake: someone below mentioned the Birningham church bombings. African Americans face indignities in this country that American Jews can’t imagine, and you don’t hear them packing suitcases and whatever.

            • I’m pretty sure there are plenty of African-Americans who are looking for a way out in case it becomes necessary as well. Surely the talk about immigrating to Canada wasn’t all from white dudes.

          • drahthaar

            Thank you for saying this.

            • I would suggest that if a Nazi apologist thanks you for something you’ve said, it might be time to rethink whether it’s correct.

            • Gator90

              Which upsets you more, Nazis getting punched or Jews expressing their feelings?

          • LeeEsq

            Its a long tradition to always down play Jew hatred until it is too late to do anything about it. Most of the leaders of the Alt-Right might not be calling for direct attacks against the Jews now but many of them see us as the origins of everything they hate about the present era just like how many opponents of the Civil Rights Movement believed that but for Jews African-Americans would be fine with their lot. They aren’t going to let Jews remain untouched forever. They are eventually going to strike against us and it will be sooner than latter. We already had a few incidents after Trump was elected.

          • Cleardale

            If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it’s just possible you haven’t grasped the situation.

          • Gator90

            @humanoid.panda — As an American Jew I feel safe here and am not concerned for the safety of myself or my loved ones now or in the foreseeable future. But if others have less confidence in the foreseeability of the future, why does that make you so angry?

            • humanoid.panda

              Because I think fear and despair are paralyzing emotions, and we need mobilization.

              Also, because I feel that members of a community that’s immensely privileged and powerful, we should be concerned about others, not to try to insert ourselves as victmis.

              Finally, and if I’m being honest, it’s the fact that in the Israeli context almost everyone who invokes the Holocaust is an asshole, so this might be a reflex.

              • Fear is a rational response to certain circumstances, and this is one of them. In addition, it’s not as though it’s the only emotion I’m feeling. I’m also incredibly pissed off, which is a mobilising emotion.

                As for despair, I’m kind of over that now. I’m resigned to the fact that things are going to suck for the next four years, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to wallow in despair. It helps that my personal and professional life are actually going fairly well; it’s just politics that are horrible.

                As for us being privileged – well, yes, we were. But synagogues are routinely getting bomb threats and swastika graffiti now. I think that’s over. I’m also definitely not using the Holocaust in the context of any of Israel’s actions, so.

                • humanoid.panda

                  As for us being privileged – well, yes, we were. But synagogues are routinely getting bomb threats and swastika graffiti now. I think that’s over. I’m also definitely not using the Holocaust in the context of any of Israel’s actions, so.

                  Your past tense is simply ridiculous. American Jews are by far American’s most well-off economic group in the country. There are 10 Jewish Senators. 3 Jewish Supreme Court Justices (and countless other federal judges). To our eternal shame, Jews are massively over-represented in Trump’s administration. And yes, I know that “German Jews were also secure.” This is nonsense: while German Jews were acculturated and well-off, they were barred from any positions of power. I am sorry, but some graffiti and threats don’t negate this reality.

                  And as “in Israeli context” I simply mean that Israelis who talk about the Holocaust non-stop are usually assholes.

                • I think you’re underestimating how much right-wing Jews hate liberal Jews. The fact that they are over-represented in Tangerine Torquemada’s administration does not make us safe. The shitgibbon’s last campaign ad was overtly anti-Semitic and his chief political strategist is all but a neo-Nazi.

                  The fact that we are represented in government is not much of a reassurance to me, either.

                  Things aren’t identical to 1933 Germany, but there are enough parallels that anyone with Jewish ancestry who isn’t alarmed is probably underestimating the potential threats we face.

                • Ronan

                  Here is Timothy synders description of the ideology and context that led to the holocaust

                  “Throughout Europe, but to different degrees in different places, German occupation destroyed the institutions that made ideas of reciprocity seem plausible. Where Germans obliterated conventional states, or annihilated Soviet institutions that had just destroyed conventional states, they created the abyss where racism and politics pulled together towards nothingness. In this black hole, Jews were murdered.
                  To characterize Hitler as an antisemite or an anti-Slavic racist underestimates the potential of Nazi ideas. His ideas about Jews and Slavs were not prejudices that happened to be extreme, but rather emanations of a coherent worldview that contained the potential to change the world. His conflation of politics and science allowed him to pose political problems as scientific ones and scientific problems as political ones. He thereby placed himself at the center of the circle, interpreting all data according to a scheme of a perfect world of racial bloodshed corrupted only by the humanizing influence of Jews. By presenting Jews as an ecological flaw responsible for the disharmony of the planet, Hitler channeled and personalized the inevitable tensions of globalization. The only sound ecology was to eliminate a political enemy; the only sound politics was to purify the earth.”

                  Honest question, what are the parallels that make the situations comparable?

                • From that quote alone, you don’t see institutions being destroyed? ’Cause, uh…

                  Other parallels include Trump’s imitation of the Nuremberg laws, the overt racism of several of his close advisors, etc. Trump himself may not actually have many serious convictions, but that doesn’t make him any less dangerous, and to the extent he does have convictions, they seem to be racism and misogyny, as these are two of the few constants in his political positions throughout the years.

                  The parallels to Nazi Germany don’t have to be exact for the danger to be real. History rarely repeats itself exactly, anyway.

              • Gator90

                @humanoid.panda — As an LGM lurker/commenter for over a decade, I can tell you there are remarkably few assholes here, IMHO. There is plenty of disagreement but most people are in good faith most of the time.

                • humanoid.panda

                  Sure, and FWIW, I regret and apologize for the tone of my initial comment. I still think what I think, but I should not insult people who are going through a rough time.

      • Davis X. Machina

        …start rounding up/eliminating “undesirables.”

        It’ll happen in small and medium-sized cities and towns first.

        “Sundown towns” didn’t just happen, and didn’t need the force of law. Popular pressure can do it.

      • James B. Shearer

        … Jewish grandfather.

        I expect Trump cares more about his three Jewish grandchildren than about your Jewish grandfather.

        • Origami Isopod

          Sure, that’s why he took on a literal Nazi as his chief strategist, right?

  • efgoldman

    Some of us are old enough to remember church bombings in Birmingham.

    Things have started badly and they will not end well.

  • DamnYankees

    This whole thing is so…bizarre. Nothing bad happened under Obama related to terrorism. Relatively speaking, at least. This sort of racist insanity would have been way more understandable if it happened in, say, 2002. But its been 15 years since 9/11. We had very few incidents of Islamic terrorism during Obama’s administration. What the hell is going on.

    • White people have been told it’s OK to commit racist violence. Even Bush/Cheney didn’t do that.

      • They arranged for a lot of it to be done overseas, though.

      • ZakMcKrackenAndTheAlienMindbenders

        I read, but didn’t comment at, LGM a long long time ago. The site design was very different. The phrase “I am aware of all internet traditions” was still a running joke. In those days I was still inclined to be a purity pony, but even though the more sober analysis at LGM kind of pissed me off I could also see the merits in it. I forget which one of the writers used to be very adamant about the fact that, whatever other awful things Bush was doing he was NOT encouraging vigilantism at home. At the time I used to simmer and think “Cool apology for the American Political Kabuki Theater (TM Greenwald), you middle class white dude!”

        Through the years, I learned the value of precision and trying to call an injustice what it is instead of just using the most colorful and vituperative language for it possible. Now, thanks to Trump, I understand viscerally as well as analytically that when the real violent, home-grown fascists show up, it WILL be different. Fuuuuuck.

        • drahthaar


          I learned the value of precision and trying to call an injustice what it is instead of just using the most colorful and vituperative language for it possible.

          Would that others follow your example.

          • econoclast

            Jesus Christ. The whole country is coming undone, and you’re trolling?

            • He’s never done anything but troll here, really. This is the guy who thinks that punching Nazis makes you just like the Nazis.

              • Gator90

                I still think he has a soft spot for Nazis.

              • econoclast

                That’s not trolling, that’s just a disagreement. But he’s so butt-hurt over people being mean to him in that discussion that he’s trolling in the middle of a full-blown crisis. It’s disgraceful.

                • It wasn’t merely a disagreement. He made it pretty obvious throughout that he was trolling through his refusal to acknowledge basic facts (such as that Nazis want me and my family dead, meaning that they are not normal political actors).

          • Origami Isopod

            Awww. Would you like some gingerbread?

      • Sumac

        It’s likely that Cheney, at least, was looking forward to it.

    • King Goat

      Remember Republicans are the people that thought W kept us safe from terrorism despite 9/11 happening on his watch, so of course they think Obama oversaw an increase in the terrorist threat even though relatively little happened on that front under his terms.

      • Bri2k

        I always thought Kerry would’ve won in ’04 if he said these two sentences in a debate: “Mr President, you claim you’re the only one that can keep us safe from terrorism. Then how is it you utterly failed to protect us on 9/11?”

    • D. C. Sessions

      What the hell is going on.

      The ragheads have proven that they’re all cowards by laying down their Second Amendment Peacemakers, which is the universal sign for “I’m a wuss and therefore fair game.”

      Red-Blooded American Men have responded as any apex predator does in response to the “I am prey” posture.

      • alexceres

        Apex predators do not randomly kill just because there is prey nearby. Only rabid animals and sick human beings behave that way.

        • D. C. Sessions

          “Apex predators” in self-image, anyway. You know, 300-pound couch potatoes in camo with AR-15s.

    • CP

      In other words, confirming that this has nothing to do with terrorism.

    • Warren Terra

      We had very few incidents of Islamic terrorism during Obama’s administration.

      This is true in the real world, but that’s not where Trump or his base live. In Fox News world, there is constant obsession over violent Islamist outrages real and imagined, endlessly rehashed or concocted as necessary. Some of their more faithful viewers know (a version of) the family lives of the San Bernadino massacrists better than their own.

  • King Goat

    Maybe Sudan and Iran should think about banning immigration from the U.S.* given such hateful, terroristic acts.

    *with exceptions for Muslim Americans of course

    • sharonT

      I think that The Iraquis have banned US visa holders today, so there’s that.

    • BobBobNewhartNewhartSpecial

      Maybe Sudan and Iran should think about banning immigration from the U.S.

      They did.

      Tehran said it was watching developments on the visa bans closely. “We respect people of America and we differentiate between them and their government but because of supporting the rights of our citizens and until these insulting restrictions have been lifted, we [will] reciprocate.”

      • runsinbackground

        We respect people of America and we differentiate between them and their government

        What a charming sentiment. To think, a mere few years ago the only statements coming out of “Tehran” were “DEATH TO AMERICA!”

  • Steve LaBonne

    Every day I half expect messages to go out to the members of my church that we need to get over to the Islamic Center in Cuyahoga Falls (suburban Akron) to help protect it. It’s going to happen.

    • ringtail

      I live in one of the very blue cities in my midwestern red state, but I still worry about our local mosque. How would I even find out if they needed or wanted that kind of assistance?

      Remember all those zealots that started standing watch at recruiting stations after that shooting? It would be totally appropriate to do the same thing to protect a mosque, right?

      • Steve LaBonne

        Yes. My UU congregation has a relationship with this Islamic Center and if they need our help we’ll be there. Being plugged into this stuff is a big part of what I love about being a UU.

  • Karen24

    There is a huge protest at JFK airport right now. Protest is all we have. Make every day loud and angry but law abiding. Still, every day has to have something like last Saturday’s march. Every. Fucking. Day.

  • vic rattlehead

    Victoria Fire Marshal Tom Legler told the Victoria Advocate he had no theories about the cause of the fire

    Hrm. Maybe Victoria needs a smarter Fire Marshal.

    • ZakMcKrackenAndTheAlienMindbenders

      Maybe he’s a strict Popperian and takes the notion of “having a theory” very seriously. You ever think of that, smart guy?

      If you’re going to be so quick to write off and denigrate Realmericans you’re never going to be able to reach them and help assuage their economic anxiety.

      • daves09

        Well, we do all need to be reminded every day that this is all about economic anxiety.
        Thanks Loomis.

        • econoclast

          Jesus Christ. Erik has consistently been on the side of the angels here. He has never downplayed the seriousness of American racism. The world isn’t going to end just because he takes the economic anxiety argument more seriously than is warranted.

    • wjts

      They may well, but I’d honestly expect him to say the same thing if he were speaking on camera in front of the burning building while two firefighters in the background struggled to restrain a Crazy Harry-looking guy clutching a pair of dripping jerry cans and cackling, “I did it! I did it!”.

      • vic rattlehead

        Yeah I am pretty sure I’m being unfair- I don’t think he’s actually dumb, I just. Is this an elected position or something? I mean come on, at least acknowledge what’s happened recently?

      • rm

        Yes. If he is a smart Fire Marshal he’ll be carefully documenting evidence and not commenting.

  • The Lorax

    Btw, NPR hourly news at 3: (Roughly): “Trump signs order banning immigration from x, y, z. Some call it a Muslim ban. Trump denies this.”

    No word on *why* we do, because it’s a ban in Muslim countries and Christians are exempted.

    The GOP will kill off NPR, and I will not miss it. Public radio, yes. But not NPR News.

    • ZakMcKrackenAndTheAlienMindbenders

      Out of curiosity, which news sites will you miss when they are shut down?

      • rm

        If you could point me to the liberal media I’m always hearing about, and after I found it it was shut down, I would miss that.

        • ZakMcKrackenAndTheAlienMindbenders

          I guess I will mostly miss the times when somehow, against all odds, good reporters managed to do good work at outlets who had the money/power to bankroll investigative journalism.

          I also miss Gawker, because their investigative reporting on Trump’s hair doctor and Trump’s private physician (who crawled out of a peak Pynchon novel) was first rate.

          • He felt more like a Coen Brothers character to me at the time, but I can definitely see how he would fit in a Pynchon novel too.

      • The Lorax

        That is a tough question. I’d definitely miss public radio and PBS.

  • The Lorax

    Also, the National Immigration Law Center Link is a good place to donate to. They’ve sued Trump over this, along with the ACLU.

  • shah8

    I am deeply, sickeningly, furious, and it’s been building all day.

    • At this point, I think that’s a healthy reaction. Anger helps prevent apathy, and we can’t afford to be apathetic about things like this. It’s better to be furious than to wallow in despair or the like. Ideally, such anger can be channelled into constructive organisation.

      • shah8

        good tea is not helping, though. It usually does.

        This is such a horrible day.

        • There are going to be a lot of these days over the next four years. I’m furious too, and incapable of focusing on much of anything.

          • drahthaar

            Do you know you’ve made over 350 posts in the past four days?

            Keep up the good work.

            • …you actually bothered counting the number of comments I’ve made, and are accusing me of not doing anything constructive with my time? That is a really strange accusation for someone who has made so many comments that contribute nothing of value whatsoever to the discussion to make. It’s not as though I’ve only been posting here.

              • Hob

                He’s trolling you. Logic won’t work.

                • Well, yes. It’s not as if he’s ever demonstrated a grasp of logic before, or ever done anything but troll here. I just have a difficult time not pointing out people’s idiocy even if they’re obviously trolling. It goes back to SIWOTI syndrome.

            • Origami Isopod

              You seem rather cranky. Maybe a little upbeat music will cheer you up?

            • efgoldman

              Avaunt, troll

    • (((Malaclypse)))

      I told my 10-year-old today about the ban, and doing it on Yom HaShoah,and why we should protest again, even though we did just last week. Throughout, she dropped f-bombs regularly and accurately at the actions of der trumpenfuhrer. At some point, she stopped, and apologized. “I know I shouldn’t say that, but I’m so mad!” I told her that cursing and anger were exactly the right reaction.

      • Frankly, anyone who isn’t using liberal amounts of profanity simply isn’t doing it right, even if they’re ten years old. I’m proud of your daughter, as well as of you.

  • OliversArmy

    I’ve never owned a gun. Is it time to buy a gun?

    That is neither a sarcastic nor rhetorical question.

    • Are you prone to clinical depression? If the answer to that is yes, then the answer to your question is “never”. Having a firearm in the house vastly increases one’s odds of committing suicide. Because I am prone to depression, I will never live in a house with a firearm.

      On the other hand, if you’re not, then it depends on whether you are prepared to practise shooting regularly and whether you are prepared to take proper precautions to store your firearms. This piece is a fantastic overview of what you should know about owning firearms. They can improve your security if you know how to use them properly, but if you don’t, they actually will put you in more danger.

      That said, I am broadly supportive of the left being better armed and more skilled with firearm usage. I’m just sorry I can’t help personally.

      • vic rattlehead

        Are you prone to clinical depression? If the answer to that is yes, then the answer to your question is “never”. Having a firearm in the house vastly increases one’s odds of committing suicide. Because I am prone to depression, I will never live in a house with a firearm.

        Cosigned. Please listen to this – it is good advice.

        • (((Malaclypse)))

          Also, don’t have one if children are ever in your house.

          • alexceres

            Double plus signed

      • The Lorax

        It was CassandraLeo’s earlier note about depression that caused me to think that if I used the gun it’d probably be in the wrong way.

      • OliversArmy

        Thanks. That is good advice, and I probably shouldn’t own a gun.

        • alexceres

          Pepper spray (which may be illegal in your jurisdiction) and a number of other non lethal alternatives are available for the genuinely security conscious. A home alarm system, a well maintained fire alarm, and a CO detector are more likely to protect you.

      • alexceres

        Chemistry is a more useful skill than firearms if you really wanted to prepare for the imaginary civil war.

      • Origami Isopod

        Because I am prone to depression, I will never live in a house with a firearm.


        There are groups of armed liberals out there, but I don’t know which ones might be in OliversArmy’s area.

    • The Lorax

      I thought the same thing today. Then I thought a) I’m more likely to use it in a way I don’t want and b) if it comes down to it where we’re in Walking Dead situations, I’d rather just be shot.

    • drahthaar

      Like the poster above said – if you’re depressive or have anger issues (e.g. if you’re the type of person who thinks it’s okay to go around punching people you think are Nazis) then you probably shouldn’t own a gun.

      There probably won’t be increased restrictions on firearms ownership for white, Christian Americans over the next 4-8 years, but there might be some kind of restrictions otherwise. Depending on which group you’re in there may or may not be a need to rush to guy one now.

      Also, don’t get one if you’re not willing to store it properly and get proper training.

      • Ah yes. Thinking it’s ok to punch people who want to commit genocide against you and your family means you have anger issues. Your logic is, as always, impeccable.

        • drahthaar

          Get some help.

          • I don’t take advice from Nazi apologists.

            • drahthaar

              You might want to consider the possibility that your thousands of inane posts have not only done nothing to blunt the dangers presented by Trump but have, in fact, empowered him further.

              Just give that some thought.

              • The idea that critical comments on a medium-sized blog could do anything whatsoever to empower the current administration is risible.

              • efgoldman

                Just give that some thought.

                You might want to consider the possibility that you’re a flaming asshole.

              • Origami Isopod

                Oh, come on. Be …. nice!

          • Origami Isopod
              • Origami Isopod

                That’s great. Usually I skip through the first 30 seconds but that’s the first version I’ve seen that did anything with his interview answers.

                • Yeah, it’s my favourite of the remixes so far. Plus, it’s an amazing song. There’s always room for Jello.

      • OliversArmy

        Actually I think it is not only OK, but a moral imperative to punch Nazis.

      • Origami Isopod

        (e.g. if you’re the type of person who thinks it’s okay to go around punching people you think are Nazis)

        Obviously you need another upbeat song to improve your mood!

    • DocAmazing

      If you are actually serious, find a used deer rifle and practice, practice, practice. Learn how the thing works and maintain it. Keep it well locked up with the bolt removed when stored. Every wanna-be fighter gets a pistol, which is useful mostly for holding up liquor stores and getting topped by the cops; all those AR-15s running around are useless against well-positioned snipers.

  • Hob

    Is it possible, without minimizing the seriousness of this situation, to point out that this is not exactly a new outbreak of anti-Muslim arson? There was a suspicious mosque fire two weeks ago. There were confirmed arson attacks on mosques last year. There was a big spike in them in 2015. The ACLU has an aggregator page for these (also including less violent incidents – click on “Show Map Data” to see the whole list).

    I understand the idea that in “Trump’s America” the assholes will be emboldened to do more and more, but I don’t see how proclaiming that this latest event is THE significant one, and ignoring how much it resembles lots and lots of previous events, does anything to help forestall that danger.

    • Hob

      Too late to edit in this (probably useless) disclaimer, but: my point is definitely not “calm down” or “this is no big deal” or whatever. It’s just frustrating that such a pattern of violence could go on for so long without really being on a lot of people’s radar.

    • CP

      Virtually everything about Trump is familiar to those of us who read Breitbart like media in the years before this election cycle. And while Trump gave them a massive normalization boost, sadly, so did the rise of the teabaggers 8 years ago. This has been building and worsening for a long time.

  • daves09

    No one in the Trump admin. has any idea what diplomacy consists of. Il Douche telling the Chinese to fuck off. And of course the Mexicans don’t even need to bother unless they pay for the wall. And gee, the Muslim world couldn’t possibly be offended by being singled out.
    And Haley is at the UN taking names.
    But Theresa May thinks Donnie is just great so the village thinks nothing else matters.

    • Dennis Orphen

      All this is fine with Putin.

  • shah8

    The specific issue, to me, is the explicit lawlessness and intentional creation of tragedy, by the use of an executive order with no warning to anyone, not even those expected to implement it. In practice, this act is very genuinely an atrocity of peace-time. A genuine atrocity.

  • TPM:

    The White House announced today that the decision not to mention Jews or anti-Semitism in its announcement commemorating Holocaust remembrance day was intentional. According to White House spokeswoman Hope Hicks, the statement made no mentions of Jews out of respect for the non-Jews who died in Nazi labor camps and death camps during World War II. Hicks told CNN: “Despite what the media reports, we are an incredibly inclusive group and we took into account all of those who suffered.”

    It is true that millions died under the Nazis who were not Jews. They included targeted ethnic groups like Roma (Gypsies), homosexuals, left-wing dissidents, people with disabilities, etc. But it has long been a trope of Holocaust deniers and white nationalists to insist that Jews were only incidentally targeted.

    In any case, there are no word limits in presidential statements. A more logical and worthwhile approach would be to note the various groups who were victimized. This isn’t accidental. The new administration is riddled with anti-Semites and those who want to cater to anti-Semites.

    Hope that provides some clarity.

    • Thanks for providing this. This administration really has already done an incomprehensible number of indefensible things, and we’re only slightly more than a week into it. I shudder to think what we’re in for next.

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