Home / babble / Boo. Hoo.

Boo. Hoo.


Patriarchal supremacy relies in part on people’s willingness to reflexively attribute the noblest of motives to the basest of individuals. Provided they’re the right sort of individual.

Exempli gratia

Sure Pence is a man who has used his position to oppress gay people and women. Yes, there’s strong evidence that he dabbled in disenfranchisement. Yes, he’s second banana to a fascist tangelo. And no, you haven’t heard him utter a peep against the rest of the white supremacist goons on Team Trump. But Dave Itzkoff saw the man attend an insanely popular musical while surrounded by a Secret Service detail and knew he must be trying to engage [something] and could possibly get some ideas [about something]. Therefore the fact that some members of the audience booed Pence (others cheered), made Itzkoff ;_;.

John Scalzi described being a straight white male as the lowest difficulty setting in life. I agree this is true for a hypothetical average straight white male. Start adding money or fame or power and it becomes the lowest difficulty setting and random people will praise him for playing, and write whiny letters to the game’s maker demanding it provide the poor dear all of the cheat codes. Or better yet, just skip straight to the You Won! message when he fires it up, because he’s trying.

Haberman the Hack was so staggered by the un-civility of it all she couldn’t complete a sentence, which is an added bonus in my opinion. (Since Itzkoff backed off after half the internet laughed at him, I’ll allow there’s a minute chance she realized that saying people had to show respect to such a disrespectful person because he won was grotesque and un-American and decided to shut up.)

And to make everything simultaneously more sinister and idiotic, President-Elect Spray Tan demanded that theaters be safe spaces. For fascist goons.

Anyone who has reason to fear fascist goons, tough shit on them and their 1st Am. rights. Should a member of the cast or theater staff, or some guy making deliveries to the building or someone who looks a bit Hamiltonish get mauled because the PEST blamed them for the booing, that will of course not be the fault of the Donald. And give him another chance, because he’s trying.

(As aside, I gather there are LOLs to be had from #BoycottHamilton, which may be viewed from anywhere on the Internet, not just the Twitterverse.)

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  • Karen24

    The only thing we have left is ridicule. Use it as much and as often as we possibly can.

    • bizarroMike

      I mean, he wasn’t the popular choice for president, and his initial actions look to undo the entire Civil Rights movement. You would think that this sort of thing would be unsurprising.

      • XTPD

        Especially since the Trump administration will literally be the enemy of >80% of mankind (h/t JMG), he should count his lucky stars he has a nonzero chance of making it to inauguration.

        • JR in WV

          Slightly off topic, but can we get the occasional update of Scott Kaufman’s health?

          Hoping he’s beginning to show signs of improvement, down there in the Texas Medical Center.

    • Dennis Orphen

      If you’re going to tell people the truth, be funny or they will kill you.

      -George Bernard Shaw

  • Domino

    I imagine these are the same people who got the vapors when Condoleezza Rice was confronted by someone when she was out shoe shopping 2 days after hurricane Katrina.

    I mean yes, people are dying, but she was the Secretary of State, you just can’t confront her.

    • she was the Secretary of State

      Ummm. National Security Advisor, maybe?

      And what the hell, hurricanes aren’t a national security issue, are they?

      • Nobdy

        What? Rice became Secretary of State in January 2005. Hurricane Katrina was in August 2005.

        What am I missing here?

      • You’re thinking of Susan Rice.

        (As an side, natural disasters are seen as a security issue. It’s one reason climate change is seen as a major threat.)

        • Domino

          It’s also a reason the right throws a fit every time the Pentagon releases information about climate change and the conflicts is may cause in the future.

          EDIT: Has any front pager felt it was worth a post about how Trump said Teresa May should “let him know the next time she’s in the US”? To me, that encapsulates so much about how the next 4 years are going to go.

          • N__B

            Trump said Teresa May should “let him know the next time she’s in the US”? T

            That phrasing leaves open the possibility that she may not. I look forward to stealth visits from foreign dignitaries.

        • Colin Day

          Condoleezza Rice was also National Security Adviser.


          So, the first two women to be National Security Adviser had the same last name? I smell a future Jeopardy! question.

    • Nobdy

      Payless during a BOGO sale must always be a safe and special place.

    • yet_another_lawyer

      What, precisely, should the Secretary of State been doing two days after a natural disaster that would preclude some amount of time being spent shopping for shoes? How many does does she have to wait? Does this apply to every cabinet member, or is it okay if the Secretary of Defense goes out to buy a tie? How many days was Rice required to wait before she could buy shoes, and how did you come to that conclusion?

      These sort of political games– “person x did thing y when calamity z is happening/happened a time units ago!”– are always just a frustrating exercise in Calvinball. The federal government’s response to Katrina was wholly inadequate, but that has essentially nothing to do with Rice.

      • Darkrose

        It wasn’t just that she was shoe shopping. It was that while a major American city was literally drowning, a member of the Administration was in New York shopping and going to musicals. She could have been, I don’t know, talking with foreign leaders who were interested in providing assistance, maybe?

        • yet_another_lawyer

          Okay, so: How long after Katrina was anybody a member of the Presidential Administration required to wait before she could go shopping or attend a musical? Is it somehow worse because she was in New York– would it be okay if she went to a boutique in DC and maybe caught some community theater?

          If there were actual diplomatic tasks related to Katrina that went undone because Rice was unavailable, then you’re right– she should have prioritized that, especially if it involved receiving aid from others. As far as I know, though, there’s zero indication anything like that happened…

        • efgoldman

          She could have been, I don’t know, talking with foreign leaders who were interested in providing assistance, maybe?

          Rice was an awful SoS in a terrible administration, but when Republiklowns do this (slag Obama for not immediately going to a disaster zone and getting in the way) we correctly ridicule them.
          There’s enough really bad shit they’ve done (and do) both omission and commission.

          • Darkrose

            Yeah, you’re right. I’m very biased because I’ve disliked Condi Rice since I was an undergrad at Stanford in the late ’80’s. She was always someone I really wanted to look up to: a successful, intelligent black woman in a field that’s not exactly known for diversity. But she was too busy helping Bush justify killing brown people to actually to anything to help people of color, or women, or anyone but herself. Seeing her having a fun weekend in New York while poor black folks in New Orleans were literally dying pissed me off on a personal level, mostly because I didn’t like her to begin with.

  • dauwhe

    The statement read by the cast was beautiful, and took the high road. We’re gonna need both.

    • sibusisodan

      It was fantastic. ‘Going high’ exemplified.

      As expected, the pushback is ignoring what the statement said – generous, hopeful – but the having a mard about the fact there was a statement.

    • Incontinentia Buttocks

      Was it? What the fuck is the point of “going high”? Shakezula is 100% correct to mock the right’s calls for civility. So what the hell is the point of being civil? We get no credit and we accomplish nothing. Sending Olive Branch Petitions to tyrants has never worked.

      • Shalimar

        Unless you’re part of the cast of Hamilton, you are not part of “we”. They get to choose which road they take as a group. You get to help choose the road of any group you actively participate in.

        • Incontinentia Buttocks

          Of course, they can do whatever they want.

          But we get to say whether or not we appreciate the gesture. And, seemingly unlike most people, I guess I don’t, because I don’t see the point.

          I assume that neither dauwhe nor sibusisodan is a cast member either, so your point applies just as well to their praise as to my criticism.

          (When someone criticizes, e.g., Senate Democrats’ response to Trump, should we answer “you’re not a Senator!”)

          • PhoenixRising

            Did I miss an election in which I got to vote for 2 and only 2 citizens of my state who would be in the cast of ‘Hamilton’?

            Only worth unpacking due to the next thread: Circular Firing Squads Running Out of Ammo.

      • Origami Isopod

        I don’t believe in “going high,” myself, but individual people have different temperaments and different priorities, and they are going to engage in politics in ways that suit these things.

        Also, please remember that you’re criticizing a cast of black actors. Even their very civil and respectful plea to Pence is being spun as “harassment.” Do you have any idea how much more racist shit would be falling on their heads if they’d been blunter? It’s the same tightrope Obama has had to walk, if not quite as high-profile.

        • guthrie

          I’m sure that all approaches are needed, from going high to going low to getting high. No one approach will reach everybody or help drive people who want to do something about it all.

          • Origami Isopod

            I agree. I think there is a role for everyone to play.

      • wengler

        If going high means sending a sternly worded letter to the editor when the roundup begins, count me out.

        • Quaino

          Yes, bang that keyboard louder tough guy. The cast of Hamilton is a bunch of pussies compared to you.

      • UserGoogol

        There’s no particular reason to think that either a diplomatic but sternly worded statement or loud booing will have much of an effect on the Trump Administration. Politics is driven by much larger scale forces than that. But going high is simply its own reward: anger feels bad, hopefulness feels good, so we should try to react to bad things with the latter if that’s possible. Often it isn’t, people certainly shouldn’t be blamed because their psychology leads them to get angry. We’re all just bags of meat drifting through life.

    • Dr. Ronnie James, DO

      …and T.rump demanded the *cast* apologize…

      • angrifon

        Someone should let Orange Foolius know that Broadway is a first amendment zone.

        • ExpatChad

          Orange Foolius

          +10 marvelous!

    • Mike G

      Genuinely ignoble and corrosive of American traditions of free expression. pic.twitter.com/w9d2IqJLEX

      — southpaw (@nycsouthpaw) November 19, 2016

      So the cast freely expressing themselves is corrosive of free expression? Good for them in taking a rare chance to speak up through the security bubble that isolates high officials from the public. FSM forbid bible-thumping bigot Pence should ever have to listen to someone who isn’t giving him donations.

      And here come the Politeness Police to insist that we must be quiet and deferential, raise our pinkies and be nice no matter how deliberately we’re being screwed by the powerful.

      • (((Hogan)))

        The polite thing is to wait until they’re done screwing you. It’s not fair to complain until you know the whole story.

        • Don’t interrupt the nice man who is taking away all of your rights!

      • lizzie

        I thought that critique was aimed at Trump’s tweets, but I don’t understand Twitter formatting.

        • BobBobNewhartNewhartSpecial

          This. I don’t use twitter, so I have no idea who southpaw actually is, but it seems pretty obvious that s/he was criticizing Trump here.

          • guthrie

            I agree. I have been using twitter for several years now.

        • Origami Isopod

          Yes. If you click through you can see Southpaw was responding directly to Trump.

      • efgoldman

        we must be quiet and deferential, raise our pinkies and be nice

        I regularly raise a finger or two, but not my pinky.

    • thebewilderness

      Trumplethinskin prefers to hear chants of ‘lock him up’ to heartfelt pleas for human decency.

  • Karen24

    He actually used the phrase “safe space” without irony. How soon before he gets banned from Twitter for violating their new anti-harassment policies?

    • DrDick

      Central to straight white male privilege is the idea that every place is a safe space for you. Heaven forbid you should encounter someone who does not respect your awesome white maleness and bow down before you.

      • guthrie

        To what should be their shame, but won’t, Radio 4 a couple of weeks ago had a half hour on the origin of “safe spaces” and how bad they were. I couldn’t listen to it out of rage (whilst driving the wild roads of Scotland in the dark, rage is not helpful) but the two bits I heard were Aaronovich* spouting off about the origin of it and his own experiences as a leftie in the 1980’s, and an extremely biased summing up at the end that concluded that safe spaces were a very bad idea.

        *A ‘journalist’ whose main claim to fame is sucking up to the powerful, and there was once a website pointing out all the nonsense in what he wrote.

    • Incontinentia Buttocks

      To paraphrase a past president, “If the President does it, that means that it is not in violation of the TOS.”

    • It shows what a chicken shit coward T-Rump is. If he is booed, he’ll take it as a direct threat to his safety. Pass a law forbidding booing.

    • BobBobNewhartNewhartSpecial

      He actually used the phrase “safe space” without irony.

      Oh, I think you can be sure that was very intentional wording on his part. If nothing else, the man is a first-rate troll.

    • UserGoogol

      He didn’t put the word safe immediately adjacent to the word space, and I feel like that makes a difference. People have a very vague and stupid idea of what a “Safe Space” is which does not particularly correspond to merely having spaces which are safe.

  • aturner339

    We must defend freedom of expression by tutting at a booing crowd.

    Not the crowd that booed a vet who needed healthcare or a president giving the SOTU. No no the random theater goers are the real threat to the first amendment.

  • Nobdy

    The theater must always be a safe and special place.


    I know this is a very minor issue with everything going on, but I get so frustrated by the fact that Donald Trump just SAYS stuff. He thinks something sounds mildly advantageous to him and then he just SAYS it. No reason or support. Often it is an easily debunked lie. He just opens his gray earthworm lips or smudges his minuscule fingers across his bespoke tiny cellphone and says whatever floats in his head, publicly, often to millions of people.

    How is the press even supposed to cope with this? You can’t cover a president by asking whether every third sentence is complete and utter nonsense. It grinds the whole thing to a halt.

    Theaters are not ‘safe spaces’ in any way (Abe Lincoln jokes aside). Mostly they frown on harassing patrons because of financial incentives, but Hamilton doesn’t have to worry about that. This was not a church or a government office or a funeral. And don’t Republicans object to safe spaces on principle?

    I don’t know why this, specifically, enrages me so, but it does.

    • aturner339

      Because it’s basically a mainstay of the “liberal media” all but stating IOKIYAR.

    • How is the press even supposed to cope with this? You can’t cover a president by asking whether every third sentence is complete and utter nonsense. It grinds the whole thing to a halt.

      Why ask [edit: if] it is a lie? Make revealing the lie the story. (Not that I expect this to happen, just want to note the press has some options.)

      • Nobdy

        I agree for outright lies, but for something like “the theater must always be a safe and special place” it is not exactly a lie, it’s just bollocks. He talks so much bollocks. How do you cope with the nonstop nonsense (outside the actual provable lies).

        • Make the bollocks the story. “Trump, who regularly mocks political correctness, called for safe spaces …”

          • Karen24

            Yeah, this. He has used the actual phrase “safe space” which his supporters mock in other circumstances. He needs to be the target of unrelenting ridicule for doing this.

            • BobBobNewhartNewhartSpecial

              Do we really want to subject the idea of a “safe space” to unrelenting ridicule? As I said above, this seems to be a total troll job by him, and that is the exact response he would like to see.

        • Darkrose

          The lie is that the cast harassed Pence. They spoke to him more politely than he deserved. It was the crowd that booed him.

        • T-Rump is also speaking directly to his cretinous supporters with his deranged tweets, basically urging them to DO SOMETHING about Liberals booing the VP.

    • Shalimar

      It’s just the same dominance bullshit Trump lives his life by. Other people must always bow down when he requests it. Trump never apologizes for any of his constant offenses to civility.

    • NewishLawyer

      As a former theatre guy,

      “Theater is a safe space to do dangerous things.”-John Patrick Shanley

      I get why Pence was booed. He has done worse but I don’t like the actors and crew getting booed for their efforts. I do worry about right-wing hecklers coming in to disrupt performances.

      Of course, the idea of sitting still during a performance is a relatively modern one.

      • efgoldman

        I do worry about right-wing hecklers coming in to disrupt performances.

        They wouldn’t pay what tickets co$t. Nobody’s dropping comps on RWNJ rabble.

        • BiloSagdiyev

          Shhh… the Koch brothers might hear you.

    • efgoldman

      I don’t know why this, specifically, enrages me so, but it does.

      If you’re anything like me, every time Tangerine McRapey or any of his acolytes opens his mouth (or thumbs) it enrages me, at least a little.

    • DrDick

      There is a very strong argument that theaters should never be “safe places” and should actively challenge their audiences on a regular basis.

      • Katya

        The WaPo’s theatre critic wrote, in response to T’s tweet: “Safe theater is dead theater.”

  • Todd

    Going to see the country’s most popular musical is “trying to engage”? Is that all it takes to get credit for something? If the bar were set any lower, it would be a buried pipe.

    With what was I trying to engage when I watched ‘The Exorcist’ a couple of weeks ago?

    • wjts

      I shouldn’t think you were trying to do anything of your own volition by watching The Exorcist – were you not compelled by the power of Christ?

      • Todd

        Initially read this as ‘the power of Crist’, and reflexively puked up a bunch of green bile.

    • Preparation for the next four years.

  • DrDick

    Frankly, given his record, he is lucky they did not pelt him with rotten produce and feces as well.

    • N__B

      That’s more Avenue Q than Hamilton, IMO.

      • DrDick

        More Les Miserables, I do believe.

      • BiloSagdiyev

        Or the monkey house at the Bronx Zoo. Which I’m sure is nicer/replaced with habitat since I saw it last 45 years ago.

    • Karen24

      That would be traditional, and Pence is Mr. Traditional Values.

  • Perhaps in the near future Trump and Pence can merely command that performers entertain them in the Trump palace, thereby minimizing interaction with the lowly rubes and common serfs they rule.

  • LWA

    I see the criticism of the booing being part of the effort to normalize Trump and Pence.
    Does it need to be pointed out that if he had his way, half the cast og Hamilton would be arrested simply for their orientation?

    This isn’t “political differences”; Pence is a guy who poses an actual threat to the liberty of those people, and booing is the most civil thing they could have done.

    • Origami Isopod

      Does it need to be pointed out that if he had his way, half the cast of Hamilton would be arrested simply for their orientation?

      And all of them would be denied their civil rights.

      • And the current lead actor, who is HIV+, would be denied the medication that is not only keeping him healthy and alive, but allowing him to entertain people like Pence.

  • rachelmap

    Pence has the power to pardon an innocent man who was mistakenly convicted of a felony but refuses to do so in spite of the recommendations of the prosecutor and the parole board. He should rightly be shunned by decent society.

  • Charlie S

    Did Donald Trump just say he needs a safe space?

    • N__B

      He’s been saying it for a week: he needs his blankie at home rather than the cootie-filled bed at the White House.

      • BobBobNewhartNewhartSpecial

        He’s not going to live in the president’s house, he’s not going to take the presidential salary, it’s just one more step to not being the president at all.

        • BiloSagdiyev

          Watch him take the paycheck anyway and command people not to let that fact become public. I really doubt he can resist free money.

  • pianomover

    You boo Mike Pence at Hamilton, That’s why Trump won.

    • Origami Isopod

      Thank you for this.

      This is basically what I was saying the other day, about the dynamics of interpersonal abuse and the dynamics of oppression being very alike.

      • dogboy

        [passes Religious Freedom Restoration Act]

        Look at what you made me do!

  • Crusty

    I do not like this bow to the dear leader North Korea thing going on, especially from a guy who crapped all over Obama for eight years.

    Anyway, I think giving Pence tickets to a show full of gay African-Americans was a pretty good prank on such an intolerant homophobe.

  • Joe_JP

    Chris Geidner’s Twitter feed is often helpful.

    Him being a gay journalist/lawyer and fan of the musical, his comments in response to this was particularly appreciated.

    For instance, he noted:

    The lead of #Hamilton is an out gay man who often discusses his HIV status to help reduce stigma. Might @mike_pence & @JMunozActor meet?

    Separately, linked to Pence’s past comments on AIDS, including:

    “Resources should be directed toward those institutions which provide assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behavior.”

    It lacks a certain empathy to criticize booing such a person especially at this venue even if someone else might handle things differently, especially when the election is so raw. When it will not be is unclear though. It seems to be likely to be a continuing open wound.

  • Joe_JP

    Regarding the message from the cast, the person who spoke the words challenged Trump on Twitter that ‘harassment’ occurred. Also, the statement was a challenge in itself from those “alarmed and anxious” that the new administration would not protect them. The “hope” Pence heard “our message” to me is also a challenge.

    • John Revolta

      Being exposed to viewpoints other than your own is the very definition of harassment.

  • Harkov311

    This reminds me of how Bush Sr. acted so very hurt that Democrats might not be in a very forgiving mood after how he went after Dukakis.

    It’s like your neighbor shoots your dog on purpose, then mere days later wonders why you haven’t forgiven him and moved on.

  • Daragh McDowell

    W/r/t to the OP David Itzkoff has now basically conceded that he called it wrong and pledged to do better. I think that deserves a brief update and maybe a thumbs up for having the courage to publicly admit a mistake like that.

    • LOL.

    • Origami Isopod

      No, widdle Davey doesn’t get a cookie.

      • PhoenixRising

        Are we in danger of running out of cookies?

        The resistance will be markedly less effective without the people whose instinct is to cower before a bully accepting input from those of us whose instinct is to flip off a bully.

  • KadeKo

    I have equal parts of sardonic and scary thoughts that this is gonna go “To Be or Not To Be” reeeeal fast.

  • Dudefella


  • leftwingfox

    Meanwhile, the grift shifts into overdrive.


    About 100 foreign diplomats, from Brazil to Turkey, gathered at the Trump International Hotel this week to sip Trump-branded champagne, dine on sliders and hear a sales pitch about the U.S. president-elect’s newest hotel.

    • BobBobNewhartNewhartSpecial

      It’s amazing that he has a DC hotel opening right when he is about to ascend to the White House. Was this all some kind of long con he was playing?

      • leftwingfox

        Given the timescales and bureaucracy involved, I doubt he ran to promote this business in particular. I could see him scheduling the opening for after the election, since even if he lost, he’d have tonnes of free advertising for it.

        The fact that he’s not even bothering to hide his profiteering off the position of the presidency is what’s really horrifying.

  • Bruce Vail

    Haberman the Hack?

    Based on what?

    I get it that you don’t like her tweet, but is there really any basis for calling her a hack?

    • LOL.

      • geniecoefficient

        Hackie Maberman. Maggie McHackface. Neither original but I would anticipate steady demand for similar epithets as the T—p years unfold.

    • leftwingfox

      A quick search on this site for “Haberman” comes up wit a number of false equivalence stories in this past election.

      • Bruce Vail

        Really? For example?

        I don’t expect shak to agree with me, but Maggie Haberman is really a pretty good journalist. I don’t read the NYT on a regular basis but she did a good job at Politico .

        You don’t get recruited out of Politico to the top political beat at NYT if you are a hack journalist.

        • BobBobNewhartNewhartSpecial

          You don’t get recruited out of Politico to the top political beat at NYT if you are a hack journalist.

          Being screened by the NYT isn’t what it used to be: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Glass

          • Bruce Vail

            I loved the movie ‘Shattered Glass.’

            NYT indeed had a plagiarism scandal at about the same time at the Glass New Republic scandal. Maggie Haberman was a sophomore at Sarah Lawrence College at the time.

        • Excitable Boy

          “You don’t get recruited out of Politico to the top political beat at NYT if you are a hack journalist.”

          Please tell me this is irony.

          What you are basically stating is that the top gossip monger for Tiger Beat on the Potomac was hired by Pravda on the Hudson.

          • XTPD

            Point is correct, but the NYT isn’t (reliably, anyhow) a government stenographer and can respond to reader criticism. The epithet you’re thinking of is “eventheliberal” (now that The New Republic is now legitimately an organ of the left).

          • Bruce Vail

            Do I assume that’s the same Pravda on the Hudson that endorsed Hillary for President (after endorsing her twice for the US Senate)?

            And the same Pravda that put a team of 30 reporter/researchers/editors to investigate Trump’s business history?

            Your opinion of the NYT is really just a tangent to my original question: What is it that Maggie Haberman has written that makes her a hack?

            • Excitable Boy

              Pravda was more of a dig at the groupthink party line the paper has in their news section. A small percentage of people actually read the editorials, and their thrust doesn’t really jibe with their news coverage. They were extremely reckless in their reporting about Clinton’s e-mail situation and the Clinton Foundation. On numerous occasions NYT reporter Michael Schmidt claimed Clinton was on the verge of being indicted or Clinton had violated federal laws, and the paper had to walk it back. However, Maggie was on MSNBC backing up Schmidt’s erroneous reporting until she was told to stand down.


              Haberman was signed away from Politico after she’d proven that she was more than up to the task of typing that sort of thing



              David Fahrenthold of the WP put those 30 NYT reporters to shame.

              Another problem was the manner the NYT presented Clinton and Trump news. When they reported on Clinton it was always cast in the most negative light to cast aspersions on her character and honesty. Many times when reporting on Trump, nasty character assassinations by Trump or his team were not contradicted.

              Root around Kevin Drum’s work at Mother Jones and Bob Somerby’s at The Daily Howler to get a fuller picture. It is not my job to do the work for you.

              • Bruce Vail

                You haven’t cited a single article by Haberman to justify the epithet ‘hack.’

                Throwaway comments from Kevin Drum don’t count.

                Jeez, talk about doing the work…

  • MAJeff

    The man reading the statement was an HIV+ gay Black man. His very existence is threatened by the man he so politely implored.

    Fuck the whining tone trolls.

    • dl

      i happen to think there is a time and place for tone policing, but i don’t get it here. the statement was perfectly polite. and a theater audience booing a powerful politician? if that’s not allowed, what is?

      • sprist

        About that.

        In April I went to see Hamilton, took forever to get in. Turns out Hillary! was there, with Bill, on the ground level, and people were going down there to get handshakes and selfies, and on the balcony level people were leaning over the rail to do likewise. So, some guy yells out “We love you Hillary” and some woman across the theatre says “speak for yourself!” And so on. I thought the last bit was a little weird, but she’s heard worse.

        Anyway, the reason you never heard that story before is that unlike Pence, Hillary doesn’t go snuffling to the NYT every time there’s a meanie on the loose in the general public.Also my memory of his selection as veep was he was the only Republican not hauling ass somewhere safe and Republican whenever he was approached, but I could be wrong. It’s not much to say for a qualification.

        • sprist

          Er, not April. Late June or early July.

    • Katya

      Minor quibble: The statement was read by the actor playing Burr. Javier Munoz, who portrays Hamilton, is gay/HIV+. No?

  • Darkrose

    Pence went to see a show written by a Puerto Rican guy who campaigned for Hillary where the cast is made up of people of color, many of whom are the same ones Mike Pence wants to literally shock straight. The lead is currently being played by an HIV+ Latino actor. What the flying fuck did he think was going to happen?

    I’ve seen two theories: one that all he knew is that Hamilton was a popular show about American history and tickets are impossible to get, and he wanted to enjoy the perks of being VP. The other is that he knew something like this would happen and he wanted to be able to complain about how rude those mud people and queers were when he tried to understand their gyrating and race music. I think he’s too Stupid Evil for the latter, but I could be wrong on that.

    • XTPD

      He’s like Reverend Stryker (the God Loves, Man Kills characterization, anyway) with no redeeming qualities.

    • BobBobNewhartNewhartSpecial

      The other is that he knew something like this would happen and he wanted to be able to complain

      Has he actually made a public statement? The only thing I have seen so far is Trump’s reaction.

      • GeorgeBurnsWasRight

        Has he actually made a public statement?

        He has learned to wait until after Trump speaks before giving his opinion. Otherwise, trying to claim that what he said isn’t opposed to what Trump said is soooo cumbersome.

    • MAJeff

      The lead is currently being played by an HIV+ Latino actor. What the flying fuck did he think was going to happen?

      He’s a Reaganite. “Will you faggots just shut up and die” is built into who he is.

      • DrDick

        He also appears to be a religious freak, so he may feel he has a responsibility to hasten the process.

    • Origami Isopod

      Theory 3: It was meant to distract us from the Trump University scandal. Which should disqualify Mango Mussolini from office… but, well.

      I want to be clear that I’m not saying the Hamilton cast’s statement is unimportant, or that the booing was wrong. The media, however, should be prioritizing the story that could rid us of Drumpf.

  • Bruce B.

    My favorite response so far to Trump’s call for theaters to be safe spaces:

    “Has he heard about Lincoln yet?”

  • horsecow

    The people who booed and the cast are perfectly correct to do what they did, but look how the coverage played out and ask if long-term this is the most productive way to respond to Trump’s provocations. This story is currently drawing more attention and is placed more prominently on the NYT/WashPo webpages than Trump’s fraud case and all the other actual scandals involving his transition.

    It’s not a matter of right or wrong, it’s a matter of what the press will cover and what people want to read about. Drama and personal conflict will win out over policy every time. They are more fun and they have the added bonus of being impossible to adjudicate in clear true/false terms. The press doesn’t like taking sides on partisan issues, but sometimes is forced to when the truth of the matter is stark, i.e. on climate change or on whether an adviser is a white supremacist. But on the question of whether the behavior of the Hamilton cast was “disrespectful”? There’s no easy answer there, and so it’s a perfect story for a press that is most comfortable in its role as an “impartial” referee standing between left and right.

    If all Trump has to do to get the press to ignore his real scandals is provoke a fight like this every once in a while, he is going to have a very easy time of it the next four years. It’s frustrating to think that people who are provoked or demeaned by Trump might have to ignore those provocations, but it might be the only way to keep the eyes of the press on the ball. It’s like that Simpsons episode about the giant advertising monsters: “Well sir, advertising is a funny thing. If people stop paying attention to it, pretty soon, it goes away.” The same is true for Trump’s trolling.

    • Bruce B.

      But…this presumes there’s something people can do that wouldn’t get spun in the most perversely hostile style. There’s not. There is no symbolic gesture or substantial action anyone can take to criticize these guys that won’t get that spin, and remaining quiescent will get rendered as support.

    • (((Hogan)))

      Down, down, croppies lie down . . .

    • Origami Isopod

      Oh, please. The wingnuts and their sycophants in the media will make shit up if they have to.

      But on the question of whether the behavior of the Hamilton cast was “disrespectful”? There’s no easy answer there

      Only if you’re a fuckwitted concern troll. Jesus Christ.

      • efgoldman

        Only if you’re a fuckwitted concern troll.

        Isn’t that the very definition of The Village?

    • PhoenixRising

      Your closing sentence gives you away.

      Resistance requires mocking them, booing them, and baiting the First Troll into continuously exposing himself for what he is.

      The fact that our press corpse will spin whatever he does as a reaction to resistance does not make it so.

  • (((Hogan)))

    Federal judge puts the word out:

    Donald Trump’s election looms over a U.S. citizenship ceremony in San Antonio, as the judge presiding over the ceremony says if you don’t like that Trump will be president, go to another country.

    “I can assure you that whether you voted for him or you did not vote for him, if you are a citizen of the United States, he is your president,” Judge John Primomo said. “He will be your president and if you do not like that, you need to go to another country.”

    The room at the Institute of Texan Cultures Thursday night was a melting pot, a collection of hopeful faces now bound together under one flag. During the ceremony, the federal judge presiding over the ceremony talked about Donald Trump’s election.

    He went on to criticize Americans protestors who carry signs saying ‘He’s not my president,’ including some in San Antonio. Primomo lashed out against NFL players who take a knee during the national anthem.

    “I detest that, because you can protest things that happen in this country; you have every right to,” Judge Primomo said. “You don’t do that by offending national symbols like the national anthem and the flag of the United States.”

    Primomo later told KENS 5 that he meant his words to be unifying and respectful of the office of the president, not political. He said that he didn’t vote for Donald Trump

    I wonder if he gave that speech in 2008. Oh wait, no I don’t.

    • efgoldman

      “I detest that, because you can protest things that happen in this country; you have every right to,” Judge Primomo said. “You don’t do that by offending national symbols like the national anthem and the flag of the United States.”

      Maybe while the judge is out golfing, his clerk could do a quick qoogle for “first amendment explained” and leave it with his honor’s afternoon bourbon.

      A Sanctus Ronaldus Magnus appointee; there’s a shocker.

      • lizzie

        He’s actually a federal magistrate judge. They are neither appointed by the president nor confirmed by the senate and they do not have lifetime tenure. Instead, they’re appointed for 8 year terms by the federal judges in the district (although they can be, and usually are, re-appointed again and again).

        • rea

          Like Zimmerman’s dad . . .

    • Dudefella

      “I detest that, because you can protest things that happen in this country; you have every right to,” Judge Primomo said. “You don’t do that by offending national symbols like the national anthem and the flag of the United States.”

      Texas v. Johnson says otherwise.

      • N__B

        I was unaware that symbols could be offended. I thought they were inanimate objects.

        • wjts

          That bald eagle was pretty angry about the things I called its mother.

          • N__B


            • Breadbaker

              “Bald eagles are obviously too stupid to know what they might do to prevent baldness. We need a new national symbol that understands hair weaving.”

              –Donald J. Trump

    • BiloSagdiyev

      Unifying? Once again, in authoritarian land, when our group is in power, we must all think and speak as one! For Freedom! But when people we don’t like are in power, we can wave rifles around and jabber about 2nd Amendment solutions and jerk off to our old VHS copy of Red Dawn.

  • Origami Isopod

    Another tone-trolling brain trust.

    His Twitter bio doesn’t tell you for whom he “writes about politics,” but Google tells me it’s NRO and Forbes.

    • Man, so many good nuts to pick, but my favorite is someone saying “If I decided to lecture paying customers at work, I would be fired.”

      That has to be peak “If I [did X], I would be fired” right there.

  • RPorrofatto

    Thin-skinned hyper-sensitivity. Petulant knee-jerking. Tweety tantrum demanding apologies. Not presidential! Sad!

    The problem isn’t that Pence got booed. The real concern is that we have a president announcing his disfavor via Twitter every hour of every fucking day in his own little fireside shitfits.

    • rea

      Oh, goddess help us. It will henceforth be expected of presidents that they tweet 24/7.

  • j_doc

    Trump’s tweets twice refer to the cast of Hamilton. I assume it was the crowd that lustily booed Pence, not the cast. Polite soliloquy notwithstanding. Why would Trump incorrectly focus on the cast rather than the crowd?

    • socraticsilence

      The cast is full of “those people” while the audience are the people Trump has wanted to consider peers for decades?

  • BiloSagdiyev

    They remind him of those Puerto Ricans who were “wilding” in Central Park?

    Ticket buyers are people with money from various walks of have-some-money life? But the cast is full of artsy fartsy theater types who are highly unlikely to be RealMurkins?

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