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Trump, Clinton, and Rural America

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colorado_high_plains_dirt_road

I liked this piece on support for Trump in eastern Colorado, an area which relies on an extremely globalized world in farm products to have any economy at all. Trump of course claims (FWIW) that he opposes free trade. Of course, I have massive problems with the current trade system as well, including that it allows farmers like these people in eastern Colorado to flood the market in nations like Mexico, forcing millions of people off their farms and into dirty and dangerous jobs in the maquiladoras or to cross into the U.S. But leave that aside for a bit because the point that these are voters who should absolutely support aggressive free trade policies for their own self-interests is valid. Yet of course they hate Hillary and love Trump because nothing is about policy and everything is about racial and cultural identity. And you have to give it to Trump–he has completely stripped away any pretense that Americans care about policy and issues. They will absolutely act against their own concrete economic interests. not only in the relative abstract of tax policy and the safety net but in the sense of I will vote for someone who will cost me my livelihood because I believe in white pride.

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  • Denverite

    Ah, Colorado. The eastern third is Kansas, the western third is Utah, and the middle third is California.

    • Thirtyish

      I’d say less Kansas than Wyoming.

    • Spiny

      and the middle third is California.

      With a dash of Portland.

      (Says a Californian living in the middle third)

    • Brett

      I drove through the western third on my way to a wedding a few years back. I just remember it feeling really empty, and I say that as someone who has made multiple trips through central-southern Utah (which is similarly sparsely populated outside of a handful of large and small towns). Strangely so – it’s hard to describe.

      • Denverite

        We actually like Grand Junction — we’d consider retiring there when the time comes. The weather is great, and because Colorado Mesa University is a decent-sized school (10k students), there are some decent restaurants and cultural attractions.

        • Brett

          I took the I-50 route from Vernal, Utah, so I missed Grand Junction.

          • Refrozen Caveman Lawyer

            Pedant Point: if you really took US 50 (which is what I think you meant), then you would have driven straight through Grand Junction.

            You must have meant US 40.

            • CrunchyFrog

              Correct, since US 40 goes through Vernal. And yes, that route has a lot of nothingness. A typical redneck western town at Craig, a brief blip of a cool town at Steamboat, then lots more nothingness (an even more redneck tiny down at Kremmling). Colorado is known for spectacular scenery, but you’re not going to see much of it on that route until you get close to Denver.

              If you had taken either the actual US 50 or – further south – US 160 across the western slope of Colorado you’d have seen a lot of great scenery and many more interesting towns.

        • Also, too, a natural hot spring. With mud, even.

    • Michael Cain

      …and the middle third is California.

      Where most of the people live. I casually mentioned a description like this to a friend who is an anthropologist, who then told me that all of the western metro areas — and especially their suburbs — are more alike than they are like anything east of the Great Plains.

  • DrDick

    Sadly true.

  • MacK

    Its me that the farmers eastern Colorado need free trade; but I’m just looking at the Brexit vote in the UK referendum, and one thing that was striking was that places like Sunderland, where there is a Nissan factory exporting heavily to the EU, and Dagenham where Ford is based voted heavily for Brexit. Do you appears that a lot of the people at Neeson and look for voting for Brexit because they were convinced it will be good for their jobs due to all the propaganda from the Brexit campaign.

    How sure are you that Eastern Colorado voters actually know where their interest lie?

    • MacK

      Ipad voice recognition sucks!

      • But hey, those robot cars will be carting us around without a hitch in five years. Just you wait!

      • Unemployed_Northeastern

        “I. Pat Voice is not in your contacts.”

    • Well, there’s a big difference (or can be anyway) between economic interest and racial and cultural interests and they have all the autonomy to make that choice. I usually reject the “why don’t poor whites vote in their own interests” arguments because their interests in white supremacy are far more rooted than their interests in the welfare state. It’s just rare to see the economic interests this well-defined.

      • DrDick

        I think much of this reflects that there is not much meaningful discussion of class and economic interests in our public discourse, while there is quite a lot cultural identities and issues. As I am sure you know, there was a lot more concern over economic and class issues in the early 20th century, even in rural areas, when the labor movement and various far left groups were actively agitating.

        • Karen24

          There’s plenty of discussion of economic interests. These people ignore it because the only thing that matters to them is being better than the Mud People.

      • Captain Oblivious

        Or they’re not complete idiots and know damned well that the probability of a Republican Congress ripping up pro-agriculture “free trade” agreements is exactly zero.

        • CrunchyFrog

          Probably something to this. But to be honest the argument for trade agreements and the benefits to farmers is very complex and its difficult to assess just what might happen to your particular farm with any particular agreement – let alone trying to assess what each of the two parties might actually do when it comes to trade agreements.

          But what is easy to assess is that you know, as an Eastern Colorado farmer, that you are paying far more in taxes than you ever will get back and that all that extra money is going to subsidize blacks and hispanics in the dirty cities. You *know* this because every local news source in your region has been telling you this for decades. There isn’t another local news source. *Everyone* where you live knows this to be true – it’s why your precinct votes over 98% Republican.

          I have no idea how the Democrats – without a mass of billionaires backing them with a tidal wave of funding for center-left media and research tanks – can realistically counter this mass misunderstanding of basic budget facts. These areas are by far a net drain on the state and federal tax coffers (the exception being localities that have hit it big in resource extraction). And their fantasies about the secret Obama welfare system with massive benefits that no white person can get are absurd. But as long as they believe these lies so thoroughly they are going to vote GOP.

    • Ahenobarbus

      To the extent that they don’t know it’s because the people they’ve chosen to listen to won’t tell them. If liberals want to try to explain how this will hurt them economically, fine, but they won’t listen.

      • Phil Perspective

        If liberals want to try to explain how this will hurt them economically, fine, but they won’t listen.

        And you know this, how? You know there are plenty of places Democrats have given up on, right?

        • jim, some guy in iowa

          do you have the *slightest* idea of why that might happen? or any actual ideas about *anything*?

          ’cause pretty much all we ever get out of you is this kind of “standing in the back with your hands in your pockets bitching about everything that other people do” thing

    • RW Force

      I saw a poll that the Leavers were of the opinion that Britons should be able to work anywhere in Europe while being able to exclude EUers from working in Britain. I’m sure the farmers believe they should be able to sell anywhere tariff-free while excluding foreign products and peoples.

      • daves09

        British farmers are dependent on subsidies for 75% of their income.
        Those subsidies are from the EEC and with Brexit will end in 2020, putting most Brit. farmers out of business.
        Brit farmers voted 57% in favor of Brexit.
        It isn’t just US farmers who are dumbshits. And I say that as a descendant of generations of farmers.

  • twbb

    I’m sure there is a very good, locally-run commercial that would draw attention to this in a pithy and clear way that will go unmade and unbroadcast by the Democrats.

    • Dennis Orphen

      Clear and pithy to us, the knowledgeable yet still intellectually curious. But the target market’s ability to clearly the issues and their own self-interest? It’s possible and can be accomplished, just like self-driving cars.

  • BobOso

    Hmm- per Wikipedia data, I took the eastern most counties in Colorado on the map: yuma, sedgewick, phillips, kit carson, cheyenne, kiowa, prowers and baca. The combined population of these counties is 44,707. Colorado has a population of 5.2 million. That’s about .85% of the total population of the state. But these are the real voters that Clinton must reach out to to win the election? Talk about the party of the 1%…

    • Colin Day

      There are other counties in eastern Colorado, such as Weld (pop. around 250,000).

    • Denverite

      Eastern Colorado would also include Logan, Morgan, Weld, the eastern part of Larimer, Washington, Crow, Lincoln, Otero, and the eastern half of Las Animas. Probably the eastern half of Elbert. Maaaaybbe the easternmost parts of Adams and Arapahoe, but I wouldn’t go that far.

      Anyways, all of that includes Greeley (just shy of 100,000) and a bunch of towns in the 10,000 range.

      • DW

        I think it’s instructive to look at the Fourth Congressional District, which contains all of the above (except the eastern part of Larimer, which includes Fort Collins, so is it really the eastern plains?) plus the entirety of Las Animas and Elbert*, and they still had to add the eastern portions of Arapahoe and Adams, the non-Highlands Ranch parts of Douglas, and the city of Longmont (!) to get to the required population.

        * What portion of the population of Elbert doesn’t rely on metro Denver or C Springs for its economic livelihood? Also, too, the eastern portions of Araphaoe and Adams seem to be filling up with “Your Own McMansion on Your Own 2 Acres”-type subdivisions.

        • Michael Cain

          Assuming the forecasts hold up and Colorado gets another House seat, 2021 should be interesting. Last time, the southern part of the Plains area was desperate to be in some district that didn’t include Colorado Springs. They were terrified that without their “own” Congress-critter, there would be no one to defend them from the Piñon Canyon Maneuver Site expansion (the Army now seems to have given up on that Massachusetts-sized land grab).

  • ChrisS

    I was just out in SW Colorado elk hunting … driving through the plains states was weird. The God bothering is something else. When hunting, I met some nice folks from TX and MS. It took all of 15 minutes of conversation before they started in with N-word President and Trump was going to win and end the liberal stupidity. I kept my mouth shut and tried to change the conversation.

    If/when Trump loses, these people are going to be pissed and double down on the racism, nationalism, and hatred. I almost can’t wait to see what awful person they nominate next. They won’t moderate, that’s for damn sure.

    • When hunting, I met some nice folks from TX and MS. It took all of 15 minutes of conversation before they started in with N-word President and Trump was going to win and end the liberal stupidity.

      Me thinks they aren’t really that nice.

    • Murc

      I kept my mouth shut and tried to change the conversation.

      You know, I used to do this, and it is absolutely 100% okay to do this, especially when in the company of people with guns, but I’ve been making a concerted effort to stop.

      I have people I’m going to cut off if they vote Trump, and I have relatives who I will no longer allow to say such things in my presence without calling them on it. I fully intend to be that asshole who tells his father’s wife she’s a fucking racist in the middle of Thanksgiving dinner when she starts with her Alex Jones bullshit, and if she doesn’t want there to be none, she’d better not start some.

      I’ve just reached the point where I won’t allow it to pass unchallenged anymore.

      • hickes01

        I’m right there with you. I was all for peaceful harmony until my father married an ignorant bigot from Florida and moved from Minnesota to Pensacola. Ground Zero for retired racist assholes. He gradually transformed from a Humphrey Democrat to a Fox News Zombie.

        Each return visit brought new uncomfortable silences as he ranted against liberals, unions and people of color. Finally, when he started calling players n##gers during the Thanksgiving football games, I’d had enough. When I politely told him I didn’t appreciate that language, he told me to “fuck off” and the shit hit the fan. I didn’t speak to him for six months, but he got the message. He may still believe that shit, but he doesn’t say it in my presence any longer. It took a loud argument and a lot of public shaming for him to get the message.

        I’d always assumed that if you treated people with civility and respect, there were limits to the temerity of racists, but the Fox News crowd has no limits. They almost dare you to speak up. They are essentially bullies and there are times they must be confronted.

      • efgoldman

        I have relatives who I will no longer allow to say such things in my presence without calling them on it. I fully intend to be that asshole who tells his father’s wife she’s a fucking racist in the middle of Thanksgiving dinner when she starts with her Alex Jones bullshit

        It’s just as well, I think, that my racist, alcoholic, sexist, gun nut brother in law died last year, because he would surely have been a full out Trumpaholic. This is a guy that I forbade from my house for damned near 15 years. mrs efg was obviously very conflicted; he was her big brother, but….

        • cpinva

          “mrs efg was obviously very conflicted; he was her big brother, but….”

          yeah, that kind of sucks. I’ve had some (thankfully small) issues with that, with my wife’s aunt’s second husband. her first husband was kind of a good old boy, but someone apparently told him none of that shit around me, and it was never an issue. after he passed away, she re-married, to someone they’d lived near and known for many years, whose wife had passed away as well. he’s a true, blue douchebag. my wife (and her sister too) told her aunt that, if she wanted to be around the grand-nephew & nieces, she was going to have to put a leash on husband two, because the 4 of us refused to allow him to infect our kids. she did, thankfully, because she’s overall a good lady, and it would have sucked to shut her out, because he’s a dick. I suspect he’s also abusive, but I’ve never caught him in the act, and obviously she’s not going to confide in me, or even admit she made a mistake marrying him. oh well.

          this leads to a question for you: how is it that two people, born of and raised by the same parents, in the same home, can turn out so polar opposite, personality wise, like your wife and deceased brother-in-law? did some traumatic event occur in his life, that changed him, or was he always like that?

          • efgoldman

            did some traumatic event occur in his life, that changed him, or was he always like that?

            A lot of it has to do with long time dynamics in her family. Their father was like that, just more polite (he’d been in the navy in WW2 – when you’re being shot at, other things don’t matter that much.) He was a brilliant guy who never finished high school, but ended up working for a contractor who built H-bomb triggers. Oh, and all those famous strobe pictures that Edgerton was credited with? He took ’em. He also did hail fellow well met really well.
            Mom, meanwhile, was 50s subservient, took it out on the kids, especially the four girls. (Brother was the oldest.)
            Brother just had a big mouth. He was always bigger and stronger, and I’m guessing by high school nobody could shut him up. Within the family, nobody challenged him. Clearly nobody corrected him.
            Strange, strange family. All five kids way, way above average in intelligence, but only mrs efg went to college. Lived in a small town thirty miles and thirty years from anyplace.
            mrs efg was saved by her voice and her smarts. Sh e got involved in music in high school, was good enough to go to all state and all New England, and to be selected for a touring chorus that went to Europe in ’72 (well before we met). She also was selected for a program at MIT for high school kids, so between the two things she was exposed to the world and other people in a way her insular sibs never were. She also started college straight out of high school, although she dropped out about the time we met in ’76 (not cause/effect). She went back in the 90s, getting her degree in ’99.
            It’s telling that the other three girls moved very far away: one to nowheresville Ohio, one to West Bumfuck PA, and the one who was murdered in VT.

            I really never thought this thru before. Sorry it it’s TL;DR, but thank you for asking the question.

      • CrunchyFrog

        I’ve long since given up on trying to convert any of the local wingnuts. But a recent example sort of illustrates what we’re up against. A team I’m part of was out at lunch between matches and having the usual sort of non-political banter, mostly about sports and our own sport. Then one of the guys talks a bit about his recent trip to South Carolina – mostly around sports playing there – and somehow gets on a tangent about the confederate flag. Understand that this guy is generally one of the nicest people you’d ever meet in any situation. Just a great demeanor – his opponents always warm to him – and he has the same demeanor when we are playing people of color from other teams. And yet, it’s been clear over the years that like most of the guys on our team he’s a Fox News wingnut.

        Anyway, I listen saying nothing for a while, then he says “the people who object to the confederate flag think that it’s about slavery, but it’s not, it’s about heritage”. To my surprise, I was sitting right next to him and said, “Actually, (name of the guy), it was all about slavery.” He looked surprised. “No seriously. Have you ever read the constitution of the confederate states? Or the acts of session of the individual states? Or the speeches of the President and Vice President of the confederacy? The unifying purpose of the confederacy – the reason for its founding, was slavery”.

        I guess this guy’s natural demeanor and get-along-with-everyone personality was why I decided to speak up. He took it really well, we had a short conversation with questions and stuff, and I gave him some stuff to feel good about since I’d contradicted him, then we let it go. He and I were actually a team in the next match and I noticed nothing in his manner at that time or since that there was a problem. But man, the rest of the table went stone silent during this and couldn’t wait to break up and head to cars. It was very uncomfortable. I regretted having said anything immediately. It just popped out. I think 1-1 it would have been fine – but not in front of that group.

        Since then several of the guys who used to invite me to ad hoc playing sessions have stopped doing so. No idea if that is why. But I’m sure I convinced no one and wish I hadn’t said anything.

    • bender

      “I kept my mouth shut.”

      I have not been in a situation like that with people like that, particularly with everyone armed. If I were, I probably would not dispute any of their political views and I might well try to change the subject. Before I did, I hope I would have the courage to say, “Please do not use that word [which begins with n] when you are talking to me.”

      The point has been made repeatedly that one way people of good will can give support to oppressed groups is to object to denigrating words when they hear them applied to people who are not in the room. Silence in these circumstances implies consent. Speaking up probably won’t result in physical violence and it can influence the future behavior of the hate speakers.

      ETA written and posted before I read Murc’s comment.

      • advocatethis

        My wife is the white mother of a young black woman and it amazes me how often she is in the company of people who know this and nonetheless don’t hesitate to pronounce their views on those people. She never fails to remind these people that their thoughts and the way they express them are reprehensible. What always amazes me is how calmly and civilly she does this, especially since I know how incredibly hurtful this is to her.

        • cpinva

          “What always amazes me is how calmly and civilly she does this, especially since I know how incredibly hurtful this is to her.”

          she’s a better man than I, gunga-din! truly, I’ve reached the point in my life where civility is about the last thing on my mind, when dealing with assholes like this. I figure others have tried being civil with them, and it doesn’t seem to have worked, perhaps a little incivility is in order.

          • efgoldman

            I figure others have tried being civil with them, and it doesn’t seem to have worked, perhaps a little incivility is in order.

            That doesn’t work, either. Like Trumplestiltskin voters, they’re irredeemable. But it makes you feel better and keeps you from getting an ulcer, so it’s good.

    • Karen24

      Tomorrow is my husband’s high school class reunion, from a small town south of San Antonio. I plan on drinking a lot, even if all they have is the usual crap beer.

      • Denverite

        the usual crap beer

        Lone Star or Shiner? (IIRC, the Pearl brewery shut down years ago.) I remember being in San Antonio close to 20 years ago and getting a Lone Star because it was cheaper than a soda. ($0.75 to $1.)

        • skate

          Probably Lone Star or Pearl.

          Shiner’s gotten so yuppified in the last 20 years, I’m regularly seeing bottles of it on the shelf in NYC. Seems like I even saw it at a grocery store in Idaho a couple months ago. Transition started back around 1990 with new ownership and within two years they were supplanted by Pearl as the cheapest keg beer available in Houston.

          (Jeezus, I think I still have a hangover from all the Shiner Bock I drank while in grad school in Houston.)

  • Rob in CT

    And you have to give it to Trump–he has completely stripped away any pretense that Americans care about policy and issues.

    USA! USA! USA!

  • FlipYrWhig

    Trump of course claims (FWIW) that he opposes free trade.

    Trump doesn’t really say that when he’s the president there won’t be any trade deals. He says that when he’s president the trade deals will be the best.

  • They will absolutely act against their own concrete economic interests. not only in the relative abstract of tax policy and the safety net but in the sense of I will vote for someone who will cost me my livelihood because I believe in white pride.

    Kansas already proved that point. Twice.

    • econoclast

      Did they really vote for Brownback out of white pride? Was it a live issue in the campaign?

      • efgoldman

        Did they really vote for Brownback out of white pride?

        I don’t know the answer, but does it really make a difference?
        Kansas has 6% AA population. That’s almost NH or VT levels. Of course white voters are perfectly capable of deluding themselves that they’re about to be overwhelmed by dusky hordes of young bucks.

  • Murc

    And you have to give it to Trump–he has completely stripped away any pretense that Americans care about policy and issues.

    I don’t think this is true. It just turns out that the issues a lot of Americans care about aren’t the ones that polite society has been maintaining a pretense that they should. Trump has stripped that pretense away; but it doesn’t make this election not about issues. “Exactly how racist am I?” is totally an electoral issue.

  • Drexciya

    Yet of course they hate Hillary and love Trump because nothing is about policy and everything is about racial and cultural identity. And you have to give it to Trump–he has completely stripped away any pretense that Americans care about policy and issues. They will absolutely act against their own concrete economic interests. not only in the relative abstract of tax policy and the safety net but in the sense of I will vote for someone who will cost me my livelihood because I believe in white pride.

    Which gives us ample cause to return to the instructive example of the half-black Youngstown and see how the black half has experienced white people’s good faith, economically motivated shift to Trump. If you go to around 7:00 you’ll see the working class people the NYT did not deign to interview, you’ll see how some white people have expressed and understood the nature of the current moment’s political empowerment, and how black people—themselves among the most affected by low wages/income inequality—have responded to similar economic straits.

  • MissVane

    I’ve seen repeated media coverage of Trump voters in rural, low-income areas, often interviewed by reporters who seem to view them as exotic animals and try to delve into the deep philosophical reasons they are pro-Trump.

    No one seems eager to interview the Trump voters I know: white men and women in their 50s, raised in intact middle-class families in suburban Chicago where they attended decent, racially mixed high schools, and went to college. Now they live in the same suburbs, work in middle-class jobs, coach youth sports, go to church on Sunday.

    Why do they support Trump? Because they’re white supremacists, who think that ‘the blacks’ are violent and lazy and stupid and ungrateful.

    They’re not hard to find–it’s only a month until Halloween so they are busy polishing up the ‘wet paint’ signs they will hang in front of their porch so that ‘those people’ don’t bring their kids to the neighborhood to ‘take all the candy.’

    But for some reason reporters don’t come by to interview them.

    • Linnaeus

      Hmmm…I wonder why that is?

  • econoclast

    This sentence is pithy — “And you have to give it to Trump–he has completely stripped away any pretense that Americans care about policy and issues.” — but we need to stop buying into the right-wing Real Americans framing. We are Americans, and we’re a majority, and we’re going to win in November.

  • anonymous

    The phenomenon of this article is why WV went from solid D to solid R and why the same thing is happening in Iowa.

    Although IA twice voted for Obama, polls show a solid Trump lead. Sadly IA is now become like WV and transitioning into a deep Red State. Like WV, IA is also a rural, poor, and mostly White state and thus demographically similar.

    The only consolation is that some former Deep Red States like GA are becoming more purplish.

    • joel hanes

      The eastern half of Iowa is still pretty blue, and has most of the diversity, and has the college towns, and the old riverfront and manufacturing cities. The western half, Steve King country, is white white white and old old old, and the small towns have been dying for three generations.

      The brain drain, with all the young people with prospects moving away and never coming back, has hurt Iowa terribly.

      • jim, some guy in iowa

        yeah, I’d agree with all this. my county was up until about 12-15 years ago solid republican but thanks to an influx of sensible people (driftless area, people actually have moved here) good local candidates and the W Bush backlash the dems have made some gains overall. If we manage to hold onto them this year I guess I will be surprised and I think it’s back to the past in ’18 and beyond for sure. So many people say demographics are overall going to work in a progressive fashion but they won’t here

  • Harkov311

    I think it was Lyndon Johnson who said that as long as you gave white people someone to look down on they’d be almost giddy to vote against their other interests.

    Obviously, this doesn’t apply to all whites, since otherwise Vermont and Iowa would be much more Republican. But it apparently appeals to enough of them to pull Republicans across the finish line in a fair number of white, rural areas.

  • McMike

    The lens for understanding rural ag politics is of course far more complicated than the single-issue of trade policy. And the source article hints towards this.

    It is true enough to say that current status quo agriculture ought to support assertive US trade policy, because current assertive US trade policy tends to expand (certain) US crop exports.

    It is also true that the system that created this situation is the same one that decimated rural landscapes of its youth and talent and family farm ownership – and economic diversity and independence. And created (re-created every three generations) a nearly feudal system of corporate and large-holder farm ownership, where even primary farmers must also hold a second job at WalMart to make ends meet, and where a few massive ag companies in monopsony cartel dictate prices and methods to their essentially captive “independent” producers. (Wherein independent means they carry all the risk in exchange for a sliver of the potential profit).

    It is also true that current ag subsidy systems keep producers trapped in specific modes of behavior. And yet all can still be lost nonetheless, because even if the weather doesn’t get you, the producer must ultimately make his money not in bringing crops to market, but in surviving the manipulations and machinations of the rigged commodity hedging casino.

    So, due perhaps to the wisdom of the invisible hand, a very few huge companies, along with the banks (of course the banks – always the banks) are the primary beneficiaries.

    And thus we have this constructed conundrum where rural citizens are scared witless of what happens if someone moves the cheese again. Even if the cheese itself is thin gruel.

    The cheese here is crop exports, and the feudal system of trickle down that is built around it. Because if 25% of the demand goes away, rural communities know full well who will bear the brunt of the transition.

    That said, I think attributing the Trump attraction to racism or even nationalism misses the point and falls into the trap of focusing our understanding of Trump solely on the the supporters that media cameras choose to focus on for us.

    I for one opted out of the two party system two decades ago. And will vote for whoever the green party tosses up. Because I am a firm believer that a protest vote is the single last bit of power we the people hold (to the extent our votes are actually counted as cast). And I believe, based on ample evidence, that the elite system is terrified of third party threats. Be it Green or Orange.

    So when rural voters ignore Trump’s imputed stance on limited trade or restricted immigration (and ignore the Trump/Clinton actual record on expansive trade/immigration/resource extraction), and support Trump anyway. It may well be not due to their racism, but in fact due to the very rational realization that the one way they have left to signal the elite (short of pitchforks and torches) is to vote for someone who is understood to be outside that sphere.

    And I also find (he says flinching) that once we ignore Trump’s more repulsive statements, I agree with a surprising amount of the things Trump says, in terms of broad brush diagnosis. Despite being a lifelong socially liberal, economically progressive, culturally libertarian, first & second amendment small-c conservative.

    • BartletForGallifrey

      Well aren’t you special.

  • SqueakyRat

    Fact is, if I were voting my economic interests, I’d be GOP right down the ticket. But I’m not. I’ve never voted for a Republican in my life and doubt I ever will. So why should I think others are crazy for not voting their pocketbooks?

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