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Donald Trump’s campaign is basically a RSS feed of Russian disinformation and white supremacist sites

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white pride

This is not hyperbole:

On Sunday’s CNN State of the Union show, now deposed Trump chief Paul Manafort told Jake Tapper that “You had — you had the NATO base in Turkey being under attack by terrorists. You had a number of things that were appropriate to this campaign, were part of what Mr. Trump has been talking about.”

Only this didn’t happen.

Now, spouting nonsense on a Sunday show is nothing new. But this was a certain kind of nonsense, as a sharp-eyed Hayes Brown from Buzzfeed noted. This ‘story’, albeit fake, got a huge amount of push from Russia Today and the Russian alt-propaganda network Sputnik News that I wrote about yesterday. Now if you wanted to be really ungenerous you might say Manafort was getting his talking points from someone at least east of Kiev or more plausibly that he reads a lot of Russian propaganda websites. But as Brown notes, it wasn’t just RT and Sputnik. Their stories were also “passed along on Twitter by accounts that are both pro-Trump and pro-Russian.”

Maybe it’s just that he’s awash in the Trumpite, white nationalist world where pro-Russian propaganda (specifically propaganda from Russia’s various state-backed English language propaganda networks) has become ubiquitous and he picked it up there. What’s notable is that this bit of misinformation germinated in a Russian propaganda mill and ended up on Manafort’s lips on CNN. The precise pathway it took from origination to final destination is fascinating but in some ways beside the point.

And then there’s this fascinating little development:

GOP nominee Donald Trump attacked his Democratic opponent’s stance on immigration and refugees by comparing her to the chancellor of Germany. “Hillary Clinton wants to be America’s Angela Merkel,” he said.

He fired off two press releases that same day calling Clinton “America’s Merkel,” and took to Twitter to warn of the dangers of #AmericasMerkel. . .

The line of attack “baffled” political analysts, who wondered why Trump would possibly think referencing a largely-unknown European leader would help him win votes in the United States. A Pew survey last year found that “Germany is not on the radar of many Americans,” with more than a third reporting “no opinion” of Merkel at all.

But there is at least one group of Americans well familiar with Merkel, her immigration policies, and her connections to Hillary Clinton: white supremacists.

To white nationalist communities that fervently support Trump, Merkel has been a popular villain. Sites like the Daily Stormer, the White Genocide Project, American Renaissance, and The White Resister have posted constantly about her since the Syrian refugee crisis began escalating earlier this year. They have accused her of making a “deliberate attempt to turn Germany from a majority White country into a minority White country.” They have called her a “crazy childless bitch,” “Anti-White Traitor,” and “patron saint of terrorists.” They have asked in articles about her, “Why would you allow a woman to run a country, unless you were doing it as a joke?”

In fact, Trump’s new line about Clinton wanting to become “America’s Merkel” can be found almost verbatim in these white supremacist forums. “If Hillary takes power she will be to America what Merkel is to Germany,” a member of Stormfront wrote in March. “Hillary Clinton is America’s Angela Merkel,” wrote a commenter on American Renaissance in April.

Heidi Beirich, who investigates and tracks white nationalist groups for Southern Poverty Law Center, told ThinkProgress that Trump “seems to be parroting the hate sites” and speaking to their concerns.

“There is no question that the people who call him their ‘glorious leader’ know exactly what he’s talking about,” she said. “That is the audience that is concerned about this issue. Merkel is hated by Trump’s white supremacist supporters, and she and Clinton are seen in the same light.”

Read both pieces. Trump is going to lose, and lose badly, but he is merely a symptom of a much bigger problem, which is that there’s a good chance the GOP becomes an explicitly ethno-nationalist party before it either flies apart, or just sags like a heavy load into electoral oblivion.

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  • tsam

    It’s too early to panic about these increasingly emboldened nazis, but I’m almost there.

    • We’ve been watching the series The Man in the High Castle which is about an alternate history where the Nazis won WWII.

      I joked to my wife that it takes place sometime during Trump’s second term.

      • J. Otto Pohl

        If it is anything like the book then doesn’t the fact that neither Japan or Germany bothered to occupy or anyway change Canada seem strange to you?

        https://youtu.be/btI5y8Sw9cs

        • Willful suspension of disbelief…..

        • It’s a pretty good series. Well cast.

          One set of characters is a family straight out of 1950s television, except the dad is an SS Obergruppenfuhrer.

          I’ve started calling those scenes “Leave it to Hitler”.

          • N__B

            Did you see Pan’s Labyrinth? All I could think at the end of the movie was “fascism begins at home.”

            • The Temporary Name

              Everyone should see Pan’s Labyrinth.

              • Origami Isopod

                It’s a really heavy movie. Glad I saw it, but I never want to see it again.

                • LosGatosCA

                  Ditto

                • Solar System Wolf

                  Thirded.

                • N__B

                  I know what you mean, but I actually found that second viewing of PL and There Will be Blood (another heavy movie) made me appreciate them more.

                  But I tend to rewatch movies I like, so this is probably related to that personality trait.

          • LeeEsq

            Filming Philip K. Dick is never easy but the series made a good go at it. It ignores some of the more implausible parts of Philip K. Dick’s book like Nazi super-science by depicting a more accurate technology level for the most part. It also shows how most people managed to adjust to the realities of German or Japanese occupation well. It does miss some points though but that is probably because books allow more experimentation than movies or tv in some ways.

        • NonyNony

          doesn’t the fact that neither Japan or Germany bothered to occupy or anyway change Canada seem strange to you?

          It didn’t bother me in the book because I read The Man in the High Castle after I’d read most of Dick’s other work. Plausible worldbuilding was not exactly Dick’s forte in any of his work so by the time I read it I don’t think I even noticed.

          • J. Otto Pohl

            In the book he talks about Europe, the Middle East, USSR, Africa, Asia, even Brazil. Canada is the only major (second largest land area of any state) country not covered. Given that Canada was an Allied Power and part of the Commonwealth this is very odd. Dick’s world building is great in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep. It is in A Scanner Darkly as well. It is just okay in The Man in the High Castle.

            • NonyNony

              Dick’s world building is great in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep. It is in A Scanner Darkly as well.

              Really? The worlds in both of those books feel more like half-formed dreamworlds to me. Much like the Man in the High Castle. Maybe not as extreme as Ubik or Radio Free Albemuth but still dreamworlds.

              (And I love his work because of it. I realize that the above sounds like a knock but it isn’t. Dick’s work sucks me in so much because reading his writing is like being in a waking dream.)

              • Pat

                I have trouble getting past the racism these days, but I loved PKD’s work when I was younger.

                • J. Otto Pohl

                  ???I don’t recall any racism in PKD. But, it has been 20 years or so since I last read any of his novels.

                • Origami Isopod

                  I haven’t read PKD, but there’s inevitably going to be racism in nearly all books written by white people more than, say, 30 years ago(*); and the further back you go, the more likely it is.

                  (*) And, of course, many since then.

                • J. Otto Pohl

                  Origami Isopod:

                  Well I suppose his depiction of the Germans in the Man in the High Castle could be considered racist since he portrays them as much worse than the Japanese. But, other than that I can’t think of anything. He wasn’t somebody like H.P. Lovecraft.

                • delazeur

                  I think Man in the High Castle is the only PKD book I’ve read. I can see how someone might feel that the Japanese were too caricatured, but it never felt really grating to me. Close enough to what I know of actual Japanese culture that it seemed plausible enough for an alternate history where Japan won the war. Then again, all the characters with complex feelings and character development were white.

                • Origami Isopod

                  It doesn’t have to be HPL levels to be racism, Otto.

                • cpinva

                  “Well I suppose his depiction of the Germans in the Man in the High Castle could be considered racist since he portrays them as much worse than the Japanese.”

                  maybe the fact that the Nazis had a planned system for genocide of specific groups of people, whereas with the Japanese, it was mostly done for “sport” had something to do with this depiction?

            • Uatu

              He was writing fiction, not a précis of the real world.

              OTOH, The Canadin menace has already been foreseen:

              Parodies

              In February 1987, the miniseries was parodied on the NBC show Saturday Night Live as “Amerida,” in which the U.S. is taken over by Canada. It posited Wayne Gretzky as the new president, and suggested that Canada’s army invaded the U.S. with hockey sticks. The American protagonist (played by Canadian actor Phil Hartman) longs for a country “where you don’t have money that’s all the colours of the rainbow” and “you can spell words like colour and flavour without using a ‘u’.” The flag of “Amerida” was the U.S. flag with the stars replaced by a white maple leaf.

              http://www.liquisearch.com/amerika_tv_miniseries/parodies

              Always have to find something to bitch about.

              Don Quioxte never mentioned Catalanians, so it’s not worth anything as a work of fiction, amirite?

            • so-in-so

              Mention of Africa, as I recall, was limited to some dark hints about “disaster” there. I took those to suggest disease resulting from an attempt at “final solution” applied to the indigenous population. It wasn’t exactly deeply fleshed out. What would describing the situation of Canada have added to the plot?

              • J. Otto Pohl

                It was clear to me even at 16 that Dick was clearly alluding to an anti-Black holocaust in Africa similar to the anti-Jewish one in Europe.

              • delazeur

                I believe at one point it is explicitly stated that Germany was implementing the final solution in Africa. It was meant to demonstrate that they were evil, still committed to expanding lebensraum, and that there expansion posed a threat to Japanese global influence.

                • so-in-so

                  It has been a while, but I recall it was referenced as a disaster that the Nazis didn’t talk about, making me think something along the lines of rampant disease depopulating the whole continent (including the invaders) or (more optimistically) the large expanse and harsh conditions meaning they couldn’t eliminate the resistance.

                • delazeur

                  Maybe it was something like “The German attempt to bring gas chambers to Africa is a disaster?” I actually just finished it a few weeks ago, but it’s possible my memory is playing tricks on me and I just read the implication as an explicit statement.

                • MyNameIsZweig

                  I actually just finished reading the book a couple of months ago, and I too got the impression that PKD was describing a Final Solution-type program for Africa.

                  Though then again, I’m not really all that smart, so maybe you shouldn’t take my word for it.

                • delazeur

                  *their

                  I swear I’m educated, everyone.

                • I’ve been told my brain is yuuuge and world class. In fact, it’s one of the classiest brains in my town I’ve been led to believe. I can help you out for a small fee if you want?

              • In the series, Reinhard Heydrich mentions taking part in “the enslavement of the African continent”.

                • J. Otto Pohl

                  In the book they do revive the African slave trade to the US.

              • bender

                It has been decades since I read the novel, but the Africa passage caught my attention at the time and I remember it pretty well.

                The protagonist/narrator sees a black slave laborer, which prompts him to think a sentence or two about (here I’m paraphrasing) “Africa, that vast, echoing [emptiness].” I don’t recall the exact word in the brackets. The clear meaning as I recall it is that the Final Solution was implemented in Africa and black people have been wiped out nearly or totally on that continent, with some remaining in other parts of the world where they are relegated to slavery.

                In the context of the novel, the way that passage reads suggests that this occurred years before, it’s not news and it’s not something people talk about, regardless of whether they take it for granted or it gives them the shudders (which seems to be the case for the narrator).

                • Lodger

                  The “disaster” always seemed like something that took the Germans off-guard. So I always thought it was some kind of environmental catastrophe. In fact, since a quick search tells me the book was published the same year as the Limited Test Ban Treaty, I’m betting it was unforseen consequences of nuclear testing.

          • rea

            Bear in mind that the Axis occupation, at least in the book, is a negotiated surrender rather than an invasion–there is room in that scenario for an unoccupied Canada.

            • J. Otto Pohl

              Given Canada’s real historical experience of fighting against Germany since 1939 and its geographical position regarding the US I think some explanation is needed. After all Dick talks about Brazil’s fate in the book

        • Eh, it’s a reasonable question for a reader to ask. “What about Canada?” that is. “Didn’t that PKD book seem strange to you?” maybe less so.

          • FlipYrWhig

            I’m not sure sophisticated handling of Canadanian geopolitics is a particularly common litmus test for dystopian narratives.

            • delazeur

              I dunno, if I’m reading an alternate history about geopolitics I absolutely need to know who controls the Global Strategic Maple Syrup Reserve.

        • los

          neither Japan or Germany bothered to occupy or anyway change Canada seem strange to you?
          The reesun is so obviuss unles yor a libereal11! Nobuddy speeks canadyin11!
          We told yu liberels they hav to lern the langwich if they want to liv in america but theyr canadyin so they nevir bothired11!

      • tsam

        Sounds about right, but I’m getting genuinely…not afraid, but I don’t even know what the word is. Let’s just say white nationalists are a domestic threat. They’ve already attacked in the past.

        • NonyNony

          Concerned? But not in the negative sense that the word has acquired on the inter-toobs?

          • tsam

            I don’t want to get a bunch of concern going, but that’s not it. I have a lesbian daughter with bright pink hair, and another daughter who is doing activist work for Planned Parenthood. They’re targets.

            These people are a threat that law enforcement needs to deal with sooner than later. Every time they assault someone at a rally, they need to throw the book at them. When they post incitements or threats, throw the book at them.

            • so-in-so

              That’s part of the problem with our police. See JL’s earlier posts, that the police did nothing to the neo-Nazi’s harassing left wing protesters. It’s like they already picked their side…

              • tsam

                Right–and since I have two prime targets in my immediate family….it’s not that there’s anything I can really DO about this, but I damn sure want to.

                • cpinva

                  well, you could send them out armed with 20mm electric Gatling guns. a couple of bursts should be enough to send the goons on their way. there is the problem with weight though.

            • Origami Isopod

              another daughter who is doing activist work for Planned Parenthood.

              My gratitude to your daughter for taking that on. It’s dangerous work.

              • tsam

                Yeah, I love her forever for it, but she’s in Northern Arizona and…I just don’t fucking like it.

                I’m trying to maintain civility, but I’ll be honest, I’d rather just kill all those fucking fascists and be done with this problem until we have to do it again. I’ve spent a few nights laying awake, wondering if I should go get her and bring her home. The worse this gets, the more fucking frayed my nerves get.

                tl;dr: Somebody TALK ME DOWN

                • so-in-so

                  Those FEMA camps and white boxcars are just going to waste – but seriously, yeah, I hate that so much of the violent white/right gets a free pass from LEO’s.

                • tsam

                  Those FEMA camps and white boxcars are just going to waste – but seriously, yeah, I hate that so much of the violent white/right gets a free pass from LEO’s.

                  And a free pass from a society that values the right of people to spread hate and fear over the lives the inevitable victims. It’s a shitty paradox and a tricky line to walk between free speech and the harm it does. I’m just in a bad place right now.

                  ETA: Ironically, it’s protecting my loudmouthed ass right now, I suppose.

                • efgoldman

                  I’m just in a bad place right now.

                  Just another reminder: The intartoobz is the biggest, greatest, most successful megaphone/amplifier yet invented.
                  My daughter writes on the web for a non-political site, but before that she did video game reviews; she was hired specifically to present the female/feminist POV, for which I credit the website management. She left after a year by mutual consent – an unpublicized result of the general gamergate. She is much better off now.
                  The point is: Just because these assholes yell louder, doesn’t mean there are more of them; 99.999% of them are all talk and Cheetoh dust.

                • cpinva

                  “Somebody TALK ME DOWN”

                  um……..why would I want to do that?

                • N__B

                  Somebody TALK ME DOWN

                  Given that Mini__B isn’t six yet, I’m not really speaking from personal experience with your situation but…

                  Does she know you’re proud of the work she’s doing. (I’m going to guess “yes.”)

                  Does she know she can count on you if she runs into trouble? (I’m going to guess “yes.”)

                  Do you know she’s old enough to have her own life? (I’m close to certain “yes.”)

                  Then there’s nothing you can do that will make things better.

                • CDT

                  Bless your daughter, and all things considered northern Arizona is about the safest place in the state for people like her.

        • White Genocide Project

          Even as an old pasty-with-blotches guy, I am definitely beginning to see the appeal of this project.

          • bender

            Um, if you are planning to go ahead with this project, can you change your minds again about Jews being white people?

    • slothrop1

      There is an exciting upside to HRC and that is a nontrivial nuclear confrontation with Russia. I would say that Donald Trump looks a lot better on this issue than HRC. Pick your poison.

      • The Dark God of Time

        But there is the nontrivial chance that Trump might use our nuclear force against anyone not his BFF Putin:

        Donald Trump asked a foreign policy expert advising him why the U.S. can’t use nuclear weapons, MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough said on the air Wednesday, citing an unnamed source who claimed he had spoken with the GOP presidential nominee.

        “Several months ago, a foreign policy expert on the international level went to advise Donald Trump. And three times [Trump] asked about the use of nuclear weapons. Three times he asked at one point if we had them why can’t we use them,” Scarborough said on his “Morning Joe” program.

        Scarborough made the Trump comments 52 seconds into an interview with former Director of Central Intelligence and ex-National Security Agency Director Michael Hayden

        Scarborough then asked a hypothetical question to Hayden about how quickly nuclear weapons could be deployed if a president were to give approval.

        “It’s scenario dependent, but the system is designed for speed and decisiveness. It’s not designed to debate the decision,” Hayden said.

        Hayden was CIA director from 2006 to 2009 during the George W. Bush presidency. He was the National Security Agency director from 1999 to 2005, spanning the presidencies of Bill Clinton and George W. Bush.

        CNBC reached out to the Trump campaign via email and was awaiting a response.

        http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/03/trump-asks-why-us-cant-use-nukes-msnbcs-joe-scarborough-reports.html

        Just so you know, you’re still an idiot.

        • slothrop1

          First, Joe Scarborough; second, unnamed source. Apparently, in your universe, Joe Scarborough is a publication of record. heh.

          • The Dark God of Time

            But one need not rely on anonymous sources to glean Trump’s views on nuclear weapons. He has broached the subject repeatedly on the campaign trail. Several of his public comments are similar to Scarborough’s account while others are terrifying in their own way.

            https://thinkprogress.org/9-terrifying-things-donald-trump-has-publicly-said-about-nuclear-weapons-99f6290bc32a#.uwvwioyfw

            MATTHEWS: Well, why would you — why wouldn’t you just say, “I don’t want to talk about it. I don’t want to talk about nuclear weapons. Presidents don’t talk about use of nuclear weapons”?
            TRUMP: The question was asked — we were talking about NATO — which, by the way, I say is obsolete and we pay a dis —
            MATTHEWS: But you got hooked into something you shouldn`t have talked about.
            TRUMP: I don’t think I — well, someday, maybe.
            MATTHEWS: When? Maybe?
            TRUMP: Of course. If somebody —
            MATTHEWS: Where would we drop — where would we drop a nuclear weapon in the Middle East?
            TRUMP: Let me explain. Let me explain.
            Somebody hits us within ISIS — you wouldn`t fight back with a nuke?

            MATTHEWS: OK. The trouble is, when you said that, the whole world heard it. David Cameron in Britain heard it. The Japanese, where we bombed them in 45, heard it. They`re hearing a guy running for president of the United States talking of maybe using nuclear weapons. Nobody wants to hear that about an American president.
            TRUMP: Then why are we making them? Why do we make them?

            Try lying your way out what he said on the record, chump.

      • brad

        Another way to avoid war with Russia is to give them total control over the country. But you’re such a nationalist fascist you.don’t.even.suggest.it.

  • cpinva

    “Read both pieces. Trump is going to lose, and lose badly, but he is merely a symptom of a much bigger problem, which is that there’s a good chance the GOP becomes an explicitly ethno-nationalist party before it either flies apart, or just sags like a heavy load into electoral oblivion.”

    first, one hopes this to be the case. I’d be tickled if Mr. Trump failed to capture even one state. not likely, but a boy can dream, can’t he?

    second, this is the direction the GOP has been headed, ever since the dixiecrats fled the Democratic party, after LBJ signed all those civil rights bills into law. it is the logical progression of events. the only difference is that Trump says out loud what the GOP says quietly, amongst themselves. the billionaires are the ones who really stand to lose out, if/when the GOP implodes. they’ll lose their standard bearer for a zero marginal tax rate, both individual & corporate, but there’s not much they can do about it. they created this party, and now it hangs like an albatross around their necks.

    • Warren Terra

      I’d be tickled if Mr. Trump failed to capture even one state.

      Apparently a poll has him ahead by double digits in Mississippi, which sounds about right.

      • Matt McIrvin

        Interesting… The most recent poll I’ve seen from Mississippi was from way back in March, and showed Trump only three points ahead, possibly because of Trump’s near-zero black support. But it’s been underpolled because everyone assumes it’s deep-red.

        • Jeff R.

          Via 538, there was an August 11th poll that put Trump up by 13%.

      • efgoldman

        Apparently a poll has him ahead by double digits in Mississippi

        Last poll I saw, Tangerine Miniscrotum was ahead by 24 in Oklahoma. I doubt there will be any more polling there.

      • Manny Kant

        That seems a bit high. Romney won Misssippi by 11 points, and he was already getting 90% of the white vote. Since Trump is generally underperforming Romney, I’d have expected his lead to be in high single digits.

    • Pat

      Russian intelligence officers capturing the GOP is a twist on its direction that I for one did not see coming.

      • Yes, I’m actually surprised that this hasn’t completely shattered the party. Can Ryan and McConnell really countenance this?

        • Nobdy

          The GOP is distinct from the Trump campaign. The Russians only control the latter. Ryan and McConnell are counting on Trump to lose and fade from the national scene. They are gritting their teeth and trying to take the course that, in their view, will leave them with as much congressional power as possible. The dumpster fire of the Trump campaign will continue to burn and they just have to try to salvage what they can from the wreckage after it burns itself out.

          • GeorgeBurnsWasRight

            If that’s what they think, I believe they’re living in a fantasy world. Most of the racists who support Trump aren’t going to change their views if he loses and go back to supporting the institutional Republican Party.

            But there’s few places where Republicans can be elected without their support. I live in super-red Kansas, but if Republicans lost about half their voters it would become super-blue Kansas.

            Republicans, and the rest of the country collaterally, are going to be dealing with this racism for many years.

            • Wapiti

              I think that the racists whites have no where else to go, so they’ll stay with the GOP. No member group of the Democratic Party coalition can fit well with the Trumpites.

            • Nobdy

              They don’t need racists to change their views. They just need them to go back to listening to dog whistles and enjoying red meat rhetoric without endangering business by being rabid and obvious in their racism.

              • so-in-so

                That’s the question. Will they go back to quietly voting for the plutocrats and responding to dog whistles after going the full Nuremberg and having tasted the red meat raw?

                • leftwingfox

                  There’s an interesting article in The Guardian about that:

                  https://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/aug/16/secret-history-trumpism-donald-trump

                  Short version, Trump is capitalizing successfully on an “Anti-Managerial” sentiment on the right which rejects the technocratic positions of both modern liberalism and the business-friendly wing of the GOP, and is bound up tightly with ethno-nationalism.

                  If correct, the rift between the Tea Party/Trumpers and the RNC might be permanent.

                • That anti-managerial sentiment has always been there. The elitist wing of the right (not a perfect label but anyway) has handled it by telling that wing it can protect them from the cosmopolitans who want to “destroy their way of life”. That probably can’t work anymore, but I think the ones who think it can, probably, still have some fight in them.

                • Origami Isopod

                  That’s a really good Guardian article.

                  Mainstream conservatives and their liberal counterparts were equally complicit in sustaining this regime, but JAG focused its attention on the right.

                  So JAG is or was to the right what the manarchists are to the left.

                  When he looked ahead, [Samuel] Francis was especially concerned with the threat that one rising political star posed to his vision of the future. Barack Obama, he remarked in 2004, was “the model of what the New American is supposed to be”. Ivy League-educated, effortlessly cosmopolitan, promising to transcend barriers of race – Obama was the embodiment of the managerial elite. He represented everything Francis loathed about the contemporary United States.

                  Eerie echoes of the Jackoff-Bin left describing liberal politics that don’t focus entirely on working-class white men as “neoliberal.” The convergence between these two groups is only going to continue.

                • leftwingfox

                  @bianca steele: True, but the modern conservative media landscape might just have pushed that sentiment within the right towards a tipping point. The business wing of the Republicans don’t have control of the message anymore.

                  @Origami Isopod: I admit, I tend to avoid the brocialist areas online, so I hadn’t seen that formulation of neoliberal. I just assumed it was being used to replace “capitalist”.

                • Origami Isopod

                  LWF: The underlying notion is that class warfare is a collective endeavor, while rights for women, PoC, LGBT, et al. are all “individualistic” goals. The corpocrats do not mind having some women etc. in power, but if working-class/poor people got into power they’d destroy the neoliberal structure. Also, individual women, PoC, etc. can be socialized to fit into corporate culture, which is very middle- and upper-middle class. Working-class people stick out like sore thumbs.

                  I’ve seen serious, non-brocialistic analysis of this notion, exploring the tensions between these two parts of the left. That said, that analysis treated “identity politics” as being equal in value to class politics, while the brocialists do not.

                • leftwingfox

                  @Origami Isopod: Got it. I’ve seen the “class struggle is the only struggle” argument plenty of times before, but hadn’t seen the conflation with neo-liberalism specifically.

                • ColBatGuano

                  The business wing of the Republicans don’t have control of the message anymore.

                  This is the real question for the Republicans after the election. Will the plutocrats continue paying for an overtly racist Republican party? And if they refuse to pick up the bill, can the party be financially sustained by the yahoos? It’s all well and good to have that 27% crazy crowd, but not if they can’t fake respectability for the Sunday shows.

                • It’s possible that the business class/neo con wing splits from the alt right/cristianist wing. All they need is a couple billionaires to fund the operation: Huntsman/Rice 2020, sponsored by Koch Industries and other generous supporters.

          • Well maybe so but it leaves them completely discredited with the national security establishment and the neocons, which seems to imply a much reduced remnant GOP.

            BTW, what was Burns right about?

            • N__B

              what was Burns right about?

              Hawkeye was a scoundrel.

              • tsam

                Always bringing that stupid bow and arrows to a gunfight.

                • N__B

                  If Hawkeye stole some of Cupid’s arrows, all sorts of Rule 34 hilarity might ensue.

                • tsam

                  I feel a screenplay coming on!

            • NonyNony

              That Gracie had better delivery than he did?

            • rea

              what was Burns right about?

              A lot of things, this among others:

              Is there, for honest poverty,
              That hings his head, an’ a’ that?
              The coward slave, we pass him by,
              We dare be poor for a’ that!
              For a’ that, an’ a’ that,
              Our toils obscure, an’ a’ that;
              The rank is but the guinea’s stamp;
              The man’s the gowd for a’ that,

              What tho’ on hamely fare we dine,
              Wear hoddin-gray, an’ a’ that;
              Gie fools their silks, and knaves their wine,
              A man’s a man for a’ that.
              For a’ that, an’ a’ that,
              Their tinsel show an’ a’ that;
              The honest man, tho’ e’er sae poor,
              Is king o’ men for a’ that.

              Ye see yon birkie, ca’d a lord
              Wha struts, an’ stares, an’ a’ that;
              Tho’ hundreds worship at his word,
              He’s but a coof for a’ that:
              For a’ that, an’ a’ that,
              His riband, star, an’ a’ that,
              The man o’ independent mind,
              He looks and laughs at a’ that.

              A prince can mak a belted knight,
              A marquis, duke, an’ a’ that;
              But an honest man’s aboon his might,
              Guid faith he mauna fa’ that!
              For a’ that, an’ a’ that,
              Their dignities, an’ a’ that,
              The pith o’ sense, an’ pride o’ worth,
              Are higher rank than a’ that.

              Then let us pray that come it may,
              As come it will for a’ that,
              That sense and worth, o’er a’ the earth,
              May bear the gree, an’ a’ that.
              For a’ that, an’ a’ that,
              It’s coming yet, for a’ that,
              That man to man, the warld o’er,
              Shall brothers be for a’ that.

              • Davis

                From Man was Made to Mourn:

                And Man, whose heav’n-erected face
                The smiles of love adorn,
                Man’s inhumanity to man
                Makes countless thousands mourn!

                See yonder poor, o’er labour’d wight,
                So abject, mean and vile,
                Who begs a brother of the earth
                To give him leave to toil;
                And see his lordly fellow-worm,
                The poor petition spurn,
                Unmindful, tho’ a weeping-wife,
                And hapless offspring mourn.

                • LFC

                  There’s also:

                  Would some power the gift he g’ie* us
                  To see ourselves as others see us.

                  *not entirely sure of the spelling offhand but one gets the pt. anyway.

              • bender

                Thank you rea for quoting the Burns. The fourth verse reminds me of an old non-comm joke about military commissions–“It took an Act of Congress to make him a gentleman.”

            • (((Hogan)))

              This anonymous clan of slack-jawed troglodytes has cost me the election, and yet if I were to have them killed, I would be the one to go to jail! That’s democracy for you.

        • D. C. Sessions

          Ryan and McConnell have their priorities, and at the top is staying in power by serving their sponsors. Anti-Communism was a means to that end, not an end in itself, and anti-Fascism was never a Republican value — if anything, they were opposed to it. Not out of support for Fascism so much as from isolationism, but Coughlin, Ford, Koch, and Lindbergh (among others) were certainly at home with the Party.

          If serving Russian interests helps them serve American plutocrats as well, then it’s all good.

          • LWA

            It makes sense to remember that the right never hated Russsia, but Communism.
            They recognize Putin as a White Russian, and fancy him very much.

            • This is a good point. Traditional Russian culture has also been seen as anti-liberal and anti-rationalist.

            • JKTH

              So the elephant should be replaced with The Dude as the GOP symbol?

            • rea

              Although weirdly, there are pro-Putin US lefties, too, which is why I stopped reading the Nation a while back. The Greenwald, Assange bunch, too

              • J. Otto Pohl

                Also Stephen Cohen, but it isn’t wierd. They are either Russophiles like Cohen that have always supported whatever regime was in Moscow or it is reflective anti-Americanism in the name of “anti-imperialism.”

              • There are left aficionados of traditional Russian culture, too, though that’s tied up with confusing “Russian” with “Soviet” and also with confusing avant-garde art with an advance guard of the revolution.

                • Origami Isopod

                  that’s tied up with confusing “Russian” with “Soviet”

                  Yeah, I get the impression they don’t realize the world map has changed significantly since 1989.

            • J. Otto Pohl

              This is simply not true. Many if not most anti-communist organizatons such as the ABN (Anti-Bolshevik League of Nations) and before that the Prometheus League were founded on a strongly anti-Russian as well as anti-communist basis. Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians, Ukrainians, Poles and others hated the USSR just as much if not more for its Russian component as for its communist one. The anti-communist movement in the US drew heavily from such refugee groups. The Captive Nations Day law for instance signed by Eisenhower reflected the narrative of non-Russian nations in the USSR and East Central Europe being enslaved by a communist Russia.

              • But also from anticommunist Russians like Solzhenitsyn, no?

                • J. Otto Pohl

                  Not so much in the 1940s and 1950s. There were far more Polish and Lithuanian Americans than Russian Americans. Solzhenitsyn got exiled to the US in the 1970s. But, while a Russian nationalist Solzhenitsyn in the GULag Archipelago does note that some nationalities such as Koreans, Germans, and Estonians were singled out for special repression..

                • I think if those people have an opinion about Putin, they probably don’t have a way to let people in 2016 know what it is. I assume anti-communism had to change when Ukrainians and Russians started wanting to be a part of it. It’s an interesting question.

                  I doubt the US right had anything against Russia, the source of some of the world’s most conservative ideas.

                • ajay

                  I doubt the US right had anything against Russia, the source of some of the world’s most conservative ideas.

                  I can’t speak for the US right but the UK right in the 19th century was very firmly anti-Russia, mainly on imperial grounds.

                  As was, of course, the UK left. “I ask you, what has changed? Has the danger from the Russia side been lessened? No. Rather, the delusion of the ruling classes of Europe has reached its pinnacle. Above all, nothing has changed in Russia’s policy, as her official historian Karamsin admits. Her methods, her tactics, her maneuvers may change, but the pole star — world domination — is immutable. Only a crafty government, ruling over a mass of barbarians, could devise such a plan nowadays”, wrote one K. Marx, of London.

                • J. Otto Pohl

                  Bianca Steele

                  There are still quite a few Lithuanian, Ukrainian, Crimean Tatar and other ethnic Americans that were active anti-communists that are still active in opposing Putin. I don’t know the exact numbers, but it is a sizeable part of the US right. They are quite active in providing support to their homelands against Putin. You can go peruse the various FB groups they have established to get an idea of their efforts in letting other people know their opinions.

                • I doubt there is a “sizable” anything made up of people who were politically active in the 1940s.

        • efgoldman

          Can Ryan and McConnell really countenance this?

          They will countenance anything short of bayoneting pregnant women – maybe – to stay in power.

        • los

          Meh. Kochdaddy was a Soviet collaborator, and Ryan, Mcturtle and the others are kochowned.

          • BobBobNewhartNewhartSpecial

            Ryan, Mcturtle and the others are kochowned

            They are “Kochservatives”? I think we have a new meme.

      • Solar System Wolf

        Me neither. I’ve been thinking for the last few years that the GOP’s inexplicable man-crush on Putin was a product of its authoritarian daddy-issues. Now it seems that there’s another, more direct source. It’s chilling.

    • I don’t necessarily see it as a big problem that the GOP becomes an explicitly ethno-nationalist party. That would just be making the reality visible. I would see that as quite salutary, actually.

      • Matt McIrvin

        If it leads to mass violence–say, local coups d’etat like they had in post-Reconstruction times, and the ethnic cleansing of Republican-controlled states–that’s a problem.

        • I don’t see that as a realistic possibility. Agreed, however, more explicit racist rhetoric from nationally prominent politicians certainly risks creating more racist violence. There have already been a few incidents attributable to the Trump campaign. But mass violence or insurrection seems out of range.

          • so-in-so

            More likely some electoral success at local and state levels, and general low level violence that can be waved away as “local criminal element” rather than a bald faced coup.

            • efgoldman

              Trump is going to lose, and lose badly, but he is merely a symptom of a much bigger problem, which is that there’s a good chance the GOP becomes an explicitly ethno-nationalist party

              Is it better or worse that Combover Caligula is accelerating the process and bringing it into the open? I think it’s better. The Reaganaut/Atwater/W dogwhistles fooled people that they were voting for their grandparents’ nice, comfortable, responsible Republiklown party. Well, the sheep pelt is off the wolf. People are still in denial and living on Planet Delusia, but it’s fewer people and more and more they’re recognizing what “their party” has become.
              Assholes will always be with us, but they’re a lot less hidden now, and that’s a good thing.

              • ColBatGuano

                Will they continue to support Fox/Breibart/Drudge after this?

          • bender

            There is a lot that law enforcement agencies can do to protect organized thugs, pass information along to them, assist them and cover up their crimes. E.g., Mississippi during the Civil Rights era.

            Selective recruiting and promotion can replace officers who believe in even-handed law enforcement and equal justice under law with officers who believe the opposite.

            There was a period when the chaplaincy of the USAF was dominated by dominionist-leaning evangelicals. Instead of doing the job chaplains were paid for, which is providing religious and spiritual services impartially to airmen of every religion, many of these chaplains engaged in proselytizing enforced by commanding officers and harassment of enlisted personnel who professed other religions. This was blatantly unconstitutional but it went on for awhile before there was enough of a backlash to get the Air Force to clean house and make this sort of thing the exception rather than the rule.

      • anapestic

        I would like it even more if they split into two explicitly ethno-nationalist parties, one of which is explicitly loyal to Putin. The other can be explicitly loyal to, I don’t know, Palin?

        I understand the GOP’s ability to ignore clear evidence of … anything, but I gotta think that being a Russian mouthpiece is going to be a problem for at least some of them. Or maybe that’s too optimistic on my part.

        • NonyNony

          An ethno-nationalist party explicitly loyal to a foreign dictator would be … would you be able to call it “nationalist”?

          I don’t think that even Trump’s campaign is explicitly loyal to Putin so much as it is that Trump personally thinks that Putin’s Russia is a good model for How A Country Should Be Run. And I suspect that there are many of his supporters who would agree with that, thought they’d never put a Russian in charge.

          • A Nazi party made up of non ethnic Germans isn’t really a nationalist party either.

          • Bruce B.

            Sure. Look at some of the Eastern European regimes during Hitler’s years.

            • J. Otto Pohl

              More Central European and Western European than Eastern European. The Iron Cross in Romania was the only one actually in Eastern Europe. The Arrow Cross in Hungary, Ustasha in Croatia, and Tiso’s regime in Slovakia were all in Central Europe. These were the only places east of Germany in Europe other than Finland and Bulgaria allowed independence of any kind by Berlin. Western Europe including Italy, Vichy France, Franco’s Spain, and Salazar’s Portugal shows more indigenous Fascist regimes and parties in power than Eastern Europe.

              • ajay

                Tiso’s regime in Slovakia

                This always causes me confusion because where I grew up “Tiso’s” was the name of the best outdoor goods shop in the country.

    • it is the logical progression of events.

      The corporate and moderate wings of the GOP have been persuading themselves, I think, that it may be the logical progression for “those” people, but they can manage it and remain pretty much what they’ve always been. I wouldn’t be surprised if they see it as the kind of crisis where the fever will break and they’ll be stronger for it. They don’t really have an alternative (as you said).

    • drpuck

      I wish Trump’s landdump heralded the death of supply-side, but, because of the basic ecology of the current “disapproval” problem, where many want the Congress to dismantle the New Deal, and, many want the New Deal to be greatly enhanced, I suspect the GOP will reorganize itself around social conservatism and anti-progressivism and kinder, gentler racism.

      There already exists an “unironic” narrative that holds that inequality is the organic result of over-regulation, the ACA, and, taxes on the rich. I know. . .not a rational analysis of inequality.

      • NonyNony

        I suspect the GOP will reorganize itself around social conservatism and anti-progressivism and kinder, gentler racism.I suspect the GOP will reorganize itself around social conservatism and anti-progressivism and kinder, gentler racism.

        This pretty much describes the GOP from Reagan until, well, Trump. Or to be more generous to your “kinder, gentler racism” qualification 2008, when a black president drove them insane.

        So you’re predicting that they will unshit the bed and go back to what they were 8 years ago? I’m not sure that they can actually do that. Not without some serious excising of the angry racist portion of their base to quell the fears of the not-so-racist portion of their electorate.

        • efgoldman

          So you’re predicting that they will unshit the bed and go back to what they were 8 years ago? I’m not sure that they can actually do that. Not without some serious excising of the angry racist portion of their base

          Then whence cometh the votes? The white suburbanites can elect people in some districts and some states, but in order actually to win elections going forward, they have to have somebody – the racist/troglodytes, the chamber of commerce types – to join a coalition.

        • drpuck

          Of course the GOP CAN do anything. The longstanding set of ideas that fueled their “compassionate racism” in pre-Trump days was that the nanny state held African-Americans back. This interlocked with the (strange!) idea that the Democrats had purchased black votes in exchange for allowing blacks to “not be self-reliant.”

          That some really do think that the GOP is the natural home of the self-reliant African-American seems to me based on this conception. Trump has offered both a claim about this: ‘where there is lots of black poverty there are only Democrats in charge. ipso facto

        • drpuck

          Of course the GOP CAN do anything. The longstanding set of ideas that fueled their “compassionate racism” in pre-Trump days was that the nanny state held African-Americans back. This interlocked with the (strange!) idea that the Democrats had purchased black votes in exchange for allowing blacks to “not be self-reliant.”

          That some really do think that the GOP is the natural home of the self-reliant African-American seems to me based on this conception. Trump has offered a claim about this: ‘where there is lots of black poverty there are only Democrats in charge. ipso facto

        • “Change the sheets and eat some prunes” could be its new motto.

    • slothrop1

      She is an abjectly failed Secretary of State. She’s a warmonger who’s been on the wrong side of every war. Israel can do no harm – she’s basically an honorary Likudnik. And if Prof. Lemieux would spend a little time reading David Harvey, Graeber, et al. that she is most certainly a neoliberal which is basically proto-fascism. It is a time when all the assets return to their rightful owners. HRC tends to her flock.

      • ajay

        she is most certainly a neoliberal which is basically proto-fascism

        This kind of mealy-mouthed equivocating makes me sick. Typical civility-obsessed American liberal. “Basically”. “Proto”. Weasel words that you’re using because you don’t have the courage to say “She is the second coming of Genghis Khan, Lord of the Blue Sky, Khan of Khans, Conqueror of the World. Under her rule the faceless legions of Amerikkka will water their horses from the Yangtse and the Volga and the Amazon. Ageless, deathless and pitiless, she will crush all of humanity under her size 4 ladies’ boot, patent leather with no-slip rubber sole, low heel. We must prepare for an endless night of unimaginable cruelty and terror.”

        • Ahuitzotl

          See, now that’s a vote-getting platform

        • The Dark God of Time

          Hillary: On a mountain of skulls, in the castle of pain, I sat on a throne of blood! What was will be! What is will be no more! Now is the season of evil!

  • Nobdy

    I don’t think the GOP is going to be completely reshaped by Trump, or at least not necessarily. Its leadership so clearly dislikes him, and he has done so little to build an operation and cultivate lieutenants who will spread his ideas and way of operating throughout the party that I think he will be erased pretty quickly. The GOP will return to the hands of the Paul Ryan/Koch Brothers wing, at least for now.

    Instead of it converting to a explicitly white nationalist party what I think we’ll see is the emboldening of white nationalists within the GOP and a struggle for control over the next couple decades, with the business interests and Ryan/Koch wing fighting against the white nationalist culture wars wing (which before Trump had been reasonably complacent as long as it was fed rhetorical red meat.)

    Who will win? I’m not sure. But I’m betting the Ryan/Koch wing will maintain at least significant control. They are better funded and much better organized. More importantly, there will always be rich assholes who want to control the government to benefit their bottom line. There will always be a core of hardcore white supremacists too, but widespread support for white supremacy is concentrated in the olds, and the olds will die.

    I’m betting that the Koch/Ryan wing can hang on until there’s enough generational turnover that the tide of white supremacy dies down, and they can push the GOP back on track to being the party of AMERICAN oligarchs.

    • carolannie

      Except the Kochs are the John Birch Society, which is white supremacist and nationalist and isolationist. They might see a Commie under every bed but they would gladly wipe their hands of all alliances that don’t make money for the US

      • Nobdy

        Of course they are racist, the Republican party has been racist for decades. But they are willing to be…more subtle in their racism in the pursuit of profit.

        I mean it’s clear that Trump didn’t BRING the racism into the party. It had sought to dismantle the voting rights act and end foot stamps for minorities for decades. But the party of the Koch brothers is not explicitly ethnonationalist. It is business first.

        You can’t get the racism out of the Republican party without completely dismantling it at this point.

        • Actually, it was the rest of the GOP that was willing to be subtle. The Birchers were excluded from respectable conservatism for decades because they weren’t.

          I think there are also ideological issues involved. The right wing intelligentsia is committed to supporting what they deny is, but is, racism. That we’ve only just discovered Koch Bircher hands behind it doesn’t mean we can now eradicate their influence easily.

      • Pat

        Nobdy, you’re forgetting the Ted Cruz wing of the Republican party. They’re going to argue that they could have won against Hillary Clinton. They’re separate from both the Koch Bros set and the white supremacists.

        And yes, Ted Cruz does lead a wing.

        • This is why a predict Ctruz as the frontrunner in 2020 running on the “I told you so” platform. If only they had run a °REAL CONSERATIVE” none of this would have happened.

        • AMK

          I don’t think he leads any separate wing. He’s just a very pure distillation of elite and base GOPerism—he loves the flat tax and hates the gays with equal passion, which is something very few of them can honestly say. If he didn’t have a Hispanic name and was even slightly less of an asshole to his own party, he would be perfect.

    • D. C. Sessions

      The plutocratic wing and the neoConfederate wing have a common problem: neither is viable without the other. The plutocrats have been using the neocons for several decades, and it looks like the whip may be in the other hand for a while.

      How that plays out in the longer term? I can only observe.

      • N__B

        Confederates, whether neo or not, should certainly feel comfortable with whips.

        • D. C. Sessions

          ‘The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.’

          White “nationalism” in an eggshell.

      • drpuck

        The next census will cause the GOP to emphasize their last gerrymander for the sake of their dominance of state politics.

    • Jordan

      One weird bit here, though, is that it seems that Trump has drawn a fair bit of his aides/operatives from Americans for Prosperity, i.e., the Koch organization.

      • Pat

        Well yeah, if Trump does pull it out the Koch Bros want him to owe them.

        • so-in-so

          Ha! Good luck with that. Given how Trump treats contractors, they had better keep a continuous hold (like taking hostages).

          • Jordan

            I dunno, he seems pretty committed to helping out the Russians …

            • so-in-so

              Does he owe them money? Or is he looking for Putin to ease the way for some Trump corp projects in Russia? Crimea could probably use some hotel upgrades to provide upscale accommodations for the Russian plutocrats.

              • Jordan

                I mean, I have no idea. I think he has taken loans from Russians semi-recently, and I think he is pretty shitty about turning loaned money into actual profitable gains, and I think he is bizzarely pro-Russia in what policy statements he does make.

                However, its an amusing conspiracy theory, but I have no idea if its true. Its a campos thread though, so we can indulge in conspiracy theories.

                • There are much nuttier conspiracies and some of them were even later proven true.

            • West

              Screwing over a building subcontractor is one thing, screwing over Putin’s pals, if they have indeed lent Trump money, is the sort of thing that can lead to sudden death. So I don’t think he’s showing a commitment to helping out the Russians, per se. I think he’s showing a commitment to not dying violently. He won’t be getting Secret Service protection forever, and those debts won’t be forgiven if he loses the election.

              • Jordan

                Thats a little darker than I would suppose. But, I guess, I wouldn’t be that surprised if Trump is taking a fair bit of input from his Russian backers.

              • so-in-so

                We started with the Koch brothers, and I have no idea of their assassination capabilities. Putin, sure, but the question is does DJT owe them enough to be a problem, or is he trying to grease his way in to some deals (which is a different situation). yeah, if he stiffs Putin I expect there to be a sudden end to Trumpism as we know it.

          • efgoldman

            Given how Trump treats contractors, they had better keep a continuous hold

            Except the Kochs can buy and sell Combover Caligula many times over, and he knows it.

        • Jordan

          I dunno, they’ve kinda conspicuously decided not to invest in the presidential campaign this cycle.

          I think its more the Kochs created something that threw up a lot of assholes who don’t really support the Kochs basic agenda (maximize the probability that they don’t have to pay taxes or face environmental regulation).

  • Dr. Waffle

    Why are you engaging in such scurrilous red-baiting, Paul?*

    *”Red-baiting” now means highlighting connections between right-wing authoritarians in the U.S. with right-wing authoritarians in Russia.

    • N__B

      ”Red-baiting” now means highlighting connections between right-wing authoritarians in the U.S. with right-wing authoritarians in Russia.

      And the MSM perpetuates the cruel stereotype by using red to indicate repubs on maps!

    • Spiny

      Red-baiting now also means pointing out that the Green Party’s nominee regurgitates Russian propaganda on the reg.

  • rhbrandon

    In the emergence of a truly multicultural/racial/ethnic society, it seems inevitable that a neoracist/”ethnonationalist” party will appear: UK, France, Germany (of all places, after what it put itself through), et al.

    The only advantage is that it would function to isolate (as a political cyst, as it were), those particularly damaging elements of American political life, forcing them into the open. Such a political orientation may come to dominate white male discourse, but they would at least embrace publicly what is now hidden in the depths of GOP community.

    • NonyNony

      The problem in the US is that our electoral system functionally can only support a two-party system.

      And while I would prefer it if those groups would go all “purity pony” and back their own third party, they actually seem smarter than that and have spent the last 50 years subverting the Republican party to their own ends instead.

      I don’t see how this ends well. I certainly don’t see an easy path for the Republican party to become a healthy second party. I’m actually really worried that they won’t shatter and will instead just keep hanging on, soaking in the white nationalism until our two-party structure and an economic downturn hands them the keys to the country.

      • Wapiti

        I’d offer that our system can have more than two parties. In the best possible world, the racists would spin off into a separate party, like the Greens, that doesn’t end up with much voice. Or the spin off into multiple small parties, each denouncing the others as splitters.

        The thing that works against this is that the Republican business bloc, like the racist bloc, doesn’t have any likely coalition partners they could win over from the Democratic coalition. So business and bigots remain together, because they have few other options.

        • J. Otto Pohl

          The Anti-Judean People’s Front vs. The People’s Front Against Judeans? ;-)

        • Colin Day

          The Electoral College doesn’t play with third parties well, among other things.

          • leftwingfox

            Neither does the simple plurality voting system.

            Edit: I absolutely think that getting a multi-party system in place is important. I just think that has to happen outside the election cycle.

          • Richard Gadsden

            The Electoral College would play just fine with third parties if you had proportional allocation in the College.

            This election would be a nail-biter between a Clinton majority and her needing support from Gary Johnson(‘s collegians) to get over the line.

        • NonyNony

          I mean, yeah, our system can have more than two parties if all but two of them are completely ineffectual circle jerks. The trouble is convincing the agitators that they’re better off being the kings of an ineffectual circle jerking party rather than doing the hard work of climbing up the ranks and dominating one of the two major parties.

          The racists in the GOP are not going to do that. They’ve effectively got control of the GOP right now – they won their climb to the top. Trump’s loss will kick them down the hill again, but they know they can do it. So they’re not going to abandon the GOP takeover for a quixotic third party of their own – they’re going to force the business bloc and the holy rollers to do what THEY want, and if those groups don’t like it they can be the ones who leave.

          • so-in-so

            At which point the racist GOP will be reduced to an ineffective circle-jerk…

            I guess we have to see if the factions can continue to play (not-well) together, or if somebody takes the ball and goes home.

            • NonyNony

              Except that they will still have domination of most of the state governments. State government control was the reason the racist revanchists targetted a takeover of the GOP in the first place rather than having the “Dixiecrat” party stick around as a going concern.

      • Shantanu Saha

        I think the existing Republican party is ultimately doomed. The white nationalists have almost completed their explicit takeover of the party with Trump’s nomination.

        When Trump loses in the fall, the corporate/plutocratic wing of the party will probably believe it can reimpose its old order. That’s why Ryan and McConnell are still supporting Trump even as they deplore everything he says; they want to retain the ability to take back the party for the C/P wing, and retaining party loyalty is central to that. But it won’t happen. The White Nationalists/Tea Party are feeling their oats, and will take this as a sign to purge the party of the C/P RINOs. There will be a ferocious struggle between the WN/TP and C/P over off-year elections in the next two years. C/P officeholders will be primaried by WN/TP candidates in ever greater numbers.

        And this, I believe, is where Republican gerrymandering will start to backfire. In creating more Republican districts, they have necessarily spread conservative voters more thinly across the districts they do have. As more WN/TP candidates knock C/P candidates out of races, they will start to turn off conservative but not explicitly racist voters. Many of the rejected C/P politicians will eventually join the Democrats (as the only other viable party) and Democratic ranks will swell with right-leaning voters and politicians alike.

        The ultimate result will be a temporary enlargement of the Democratic party as refugees from the Trumpification of the Republicans flee to us. How long this lasts will depend on how long the T-rump party survives. If it stays on long enough to establish a record of electoral success on the local and state level, its slow decline will allow the Democrats a ruling national marjority for a couple of decades, long enough for the party to split into two wings that will eventually fission into two new ruling parties.

        If the decline of the T-rump party is rapid, we will see the plutocrats bolting the Democrats to repopulate the husk of the Republican party in a decade or so.

  • JB2

    Baffling is the right word.

    I forget what I was watching on Youtube a day or two ago (the Rubin Report, maybe?), and I noticed in the comment thread a couple people calling Hillary “America’s Merkel” and the “the next Merkel”. At first all I could think of was Fred Merkle – of the famous “Merkle boner” and the 1908 NL Pennant Race. This prompted me to think: 1) What kind of election-threatening unforced error do these guys think HRC will make down the stretch? And 2) Wow, these are some serious baseball fan / election junkies.

    And then I realized Merkel=immigration=end-of-the-white-race, and it all fell into place. Serves me right for watching the Rubin Report.

    • N__B

      Proof that experience helps: I know, without experimentation, that googling “Merkel boner” would lead to results that I don’t need to see.

      • NonyNony

        If you’re curious, just google “Fred Merkle”. It’s wikipedia entry should show up on the first page.

        I do wonder if he’s the only person to have a page dedicated to his boner on Wikipedia. Not enough to try to search wikipedia for boners (or at least not right now).

        • N__B

          I’m familiar with Fred’s mistake. I just dread what else stands proudly beneath the “Merkel boner” banner.

          • Ahuitzotl

            dont try Merkel merkin either

        • Bill Murray

          my college football coach Gary Boner has a Wikipedia page

        • brad

          There’s a player from the 30s and 40s who was known as, for real, Ugly Dickshot. His reference page used to be titled that, but I think b-r got sick of the joking links.

  • NickFlynn

    Call me a hippy-puncher if you must, but certain folks on “the left” are driving me nuts this week.

    1) Matt Taibbi’s piece in Rolling Stone about how the MSM is rolling over for the Democratic Party and that makes them all just like Fox.

    2) Glenn Greenwald and Billmon on twitter going on about how the New York Times is being unduly skeptical of information coming out about Manafort and his Russian connections.

    Call me hopelessly naive, but the fact that the establishment media has actually woken up and started to subject Trump to real scrutiny doesn’t seem like a problem.

    • cleek

      reflexively anti-“establishment” faction remains reflexively anti-“establishment”.

      they live to complain.

    • so-in-so

      Like Stein’s Green party, they may claim to be “left” but their actions speak otherwise.

      • Pat

        I know where I could leave them…

    • Jordan

      Re: (2) wait is the complaint in your parts now that GG is being treated as insufficiently anti-Russian? Just trying to keep track.

      • NickFlynn

        Here’s a link you can follow if you care to check it out:
        https://twitter.com/billmon1/status/765941912230649856

        He blocked me for this little bit of snark:
        https://twitter.com/N1ckFlynn/status/765943268920012800

        which struck me as a little thin-skinned. Our previous exchanges had been pretty friendly.

        • Jordan

          Sure, and I completely misunderstood your original comment. In my drunkeness, I thought “unduly skeptical of information coming out” meant “unduly skeptical that the information was correct” rather than “unduly skeptical of the reporting of the information”.

          Your correct interpretation is, of course, the right one. So, again, my bad for my dumbness.

    • captainhalibut

      Call me a hippy-puncher if you must […] Call me hopelessly naive

      Aren’t those two kind of opposites? Which one are we supposed to call you?

      • He’s a hippy puncher whenever the hippies don’t toe the party line. His party’s line.

        • NickFlynn

          Yeah, because you are qualified to comment on my oeuvre – have you ever even seen my name before?

          • No. I was just responding to what you wrote here, as one often does on internet message boards. Maybe, yes, I assumed a little about you as well, from your post.

    • brewmn

      Matt Taibbi is execrable. He’s utterly worthless as an analyst of politics and the media, and he’s a terrible writer. He’s absoutely the fucking worst.

      • I disagree. I think he is a very good writer, and I particularly enjoyed reading his pieces on TARP, the economic fallout, and related issues.

  • MacK

    I have a dream –

    Across the street from the Trump Tower is another glass tower, housing Armani in the ground floor. I dream that on the night of the 8th of November someone arranges the lighting in that tower to spell out the words “LOSER” and then “YOU’RE FIRED”

    And keep them up all week.

    • N__B

      I believe – based on some fawning magazine spreads with photos – that the living-room windows in Trump’s apartment face east. If someone at the UN were to do that with the lights in the Secretariat Building…IANAL but diplomatic immunity might prevent reprisal.

      • MacK

        But “Loser” is his favourite word – we have to find a way that he sees it every day from Election day to the week after Clinton’s inaugural.

        • LWA

          You’re more charitable than I am.
          I want it carved in granite on his tombstone.

          • dmsilev

            Trump strikes me as the sort to go with a marble tombstone. Flashy, but not as hard as granite so it won’t last nearly as long.

            • MacK

              Are you kidding – it will be a vast gold leaf encrusted mausoleum in hideous taste.

              • so-in-so

                Depends on if he pays for it before he croaks, or depends on his kids to fork over.

                Given a choice, he’d buy it on credit and have his kids stiff the cemetery…

                • MacK

                  Years ago I was involved in a white collar case, we got out client off. Then the CEO decided to allow himself to be extradited from being fugitive in France and scored 40 years … I heard he was up for parole, or at least movement to a low security facility, the only problem being some missing millions. Rumour in the legal community is that his daughters are in control of the funds, wherever they are – and when he asked them to hand the money back, they had what was described as a “daddy dearest” moment. He was may I say, a very nasty guy, but that’s cold, mausoleum cold.

                • so-in-so

                  “Daddy Dearest” or modern King Lear?

                • N__B

                  Not Lear, Henry IV, Part II.

                  I know thee not, old man.

      • he living-room windows in Trump’s apartment face east

        to facilitate his praying towards Mecca!!!

        Pass it on.

        • Warren Terra

          If we had his tax returns, we’d know whether he tithes to any religious institution, be it Islamic, Christian, Cthulhuist, Jedi, whatever.

      • Lurker

        Diplomatic immunity means immunity from the local jurisdiction of the host country. It does not mean total immunity. UN employees are usually covered by the criminal law and jurisdiction of their home countries, and naturally, the UN may fire them.

        Doing an overtly political act to meddle with local domestic politics, and to do that in bad taste, would definitely end the career of an UN employee, and most likely, a member of an diplomatic mission to the UN would be called home and disciplined.

        • BobBobNewhartNewhartSpecial

          Your detailed analysis of the situation seems spot-on. Of course, the OP might have just been joking about the whole thing …

  • Jake the antisoshul soshulist

    It is annoying when some on the left adopt rightwing memes.
    I do try to point out that the MSM is not falling in line with Clinton as much as they are as horrified by Trump as the rest of us are.

    • Pat

      It’s not really a surprise, is it? The MSM has never liked Clinton. Right now they find her tolerable.

    • NickFlynn

      This.

      The absolute worst people on Twitter this past month have been the small but virulent mob of “leftist” anti-Hillary fanatics. Standard RWNJs are almost a relief after dealing with them.

      • Origami Isopod

        Not to play NoTrueLeftist here, because many leftists are terrible, but you have to wonder how many are being funded by conservatives to scream about Hillary on social media.

        • tsam

          Agreed…

          To the other point, I’ll take a lifetime of those doofy anti-Hillary leftists** (who are just misinformed and/or uninformed and not very bright) over an hour with one of those “Repost if you think the American Flag should be allowed to fly at schools” assholes. I’m fucking DONE with those people. Seriously on my last fucking nerve.

          **Meaning the virulent haters who don’t even know why they hate her aside from what US Uncut or some other shitrag has told them. No worries with factual Clinton criticism–though much of that is irrelevant at this point.

  • glasnost

    It’s nice to not have to be cynical and pessimistic for once, and to be confident that the most despicable strategy possible isn’t actually the winning one for the bad guys. For once.

    But as always, where you can feel good is the intellectual fish in a barrel zone. Here’s a much harder question. If we’d done the right thing with Syrian refugees – i.e. accepted a million or two like Angela Merkel – would Trump’s approach still be falling completely flat?

    I want the answer to still be yes, but what I want doesn’t matter. I don’t know the real answer.

  • Davis

    I wonder if this will get as much attention as Susan Rice blaming Benghazi on a video?

  • Uneekness

    Although the new direction of the campaign should mean that Trump that can go no higher in the polls and will lose badly, the reality is that this will not change much else about the current political landscape. For all the talk that this will break the GOP, that’s just not possible.

    At the presidential level, the GOP can’t game the system. Even with the extra weight of rural state overrepresentation in the electoral college, the collective voting of the nation shows a country that is at least a shade left of center. Those of us on the left always take this to mean that this attitude is spread evenly thoughout the country and should somehow represent a threat to elected GOP officials everywhere.

    The problem is that the GOP has leveraged maximal power at every other level from local political landscapes that will remain unaffected by the sh!tshow Trump campaign. The angry white neo-racist may be a small slice of America as a whole, but they are a substantial voting bloc in many individual political subdivisions of state, congressional district, county, city, etc. And where that constituency is still fairly small, 40 some odd years of full-court propagandizing has both moved the goalposts of the political right so far off the field that even a “reasonable” Republican’s policy beliefs and preferences are still in what would have been considered fringe territory even 15 years ago. (For instance, Huelskamp’s loss in the primary in Kansas was not a blow to the tea party, etc, as his challengers policy views are damn near identical. The only difference is the challenger will only be a retrograde [email protected] in deed, as opposed to Huelskamp’s more public display of such.) The democratic party barely exists in much of the country outside of major urban areas, so even if an opportunity arises (like this year theoretically should be) there isn’t any way to take advantage. In large areas of the country, people simply aren’t receptive to the Democrat’s message.

    Here’s the prediction: Trump loses 44-32-17-7 (Clinton/Trump/Johnson/Stein) Senate goes Dem, 51-49. GOP keeps House by 20+ seats, despite there being more ballots cast for Dem congressional candidates for the second presidential election in a row. Ryan and the GOP shuck off Trump as an abberation, say majority of people voted against Clinton, implying he speaks for them, investigations begin anew and gridlock continues. The only good news is that Kamala Harris or current AG Lynch will be the next Supreme Court judge.

    • JB2

      Agree with your general outlook, but Johnson/Stein will be more like 10/2. Trump will be so Trumpy down the stretch that Hil will be able to shake loose more than a few Stein-hards.

      • Uneekness

        Agree that Stein may not fare as well, but don’t discount a strong Johnson push – he could conceivably finish second in KS and OK (Perot finished second in KS in 1992). There is still a constant “alt-world” rightwing news of riots in Milwaukee and more emails and OMG obvs Hilz should be prosecuted stories in the media sources that serve as connective tissue between the crazed right and the near-respectible right (this includes a lot of small town papers and radio stations that still serve a large swath of flyover country) This stuff will lead a substantial amount of the (can’t believe I am about to describe them this way) “middle ground” GOPers who hate hate hate hate hate Hillary but are disapproving of Trump to go to the polls to as Ryan says “put a check” on Hillary by continuing to vote GOP down ballot. A lot will check Johnson while they are there. It just feels weird for a lot of folks to leave that particular office unchecked on a ballot. When’s the last time you left that one open? (Not snark – genuinely curious. I have never left it blank.)

  • njorl

    Trump is going to lose, and lose badly, but he is merely a symptom of a much bigger problem, which is that there’s a good chance the GOP becomes an explicitly ethno-nationalist party before it either flies apart,

    I think if Trump gets trounced, it’s more likely that white nationalists will realize they are poison to their own cause. The single most effective strategy a white nationalist can pursue is to shut the hell up and hide in the dark places of the internet. They will go back to portraying a victim culture which recruits followers, but not leaders. They will return to accepting dog whistles.

    If Trump makes the election respectable, that’s a different story.

    • veleda_k

      it’s more likely that white nationalists will realize they are poison to their own cause

      Do you think they’re capable of this? Honest question. These are not logical or rational people.

      • Origami Isopod

        Most of them, no. But consider that Marine LePen is a white nationalist. There are always going to be the few who know how to make their ideas sound palatable to a wider audience, and those are the dangerous ones.

        • leftwingfox

          Makes me wonder where the next one is coming from after Trump. O’Reilly or Hannity perhaps?

        • ColBatGuano

          While there might be a leader with a smoother presentation, I wonder if the supporters are bright enough to go along and not demand the strong stuff?

          • (((Hogan)))

            Once you’ve gotten a taste for the hard stuff, near beer just doesn’t cut it any more.

            These aren’t strategic thinkers, for the most part.

          • I do not wonder this.

  • FOARP

    Love of RT/Sputnik as a news-source and admiration for Putin is yet another place where both far-left and far-right meet. Here in the UK Putin is both beloved by Jeremy Corbyn and his followers (Corbyn even used to make paid appearances on RT) and the followers of the UK Independence Party. Both Corbyn’s press-secretary and strategist Seamus Milne, and Nigel Farage have basically characterised Putin’s invasion of Ukraine as defensive and blamed the EU for it.

    You get the impression with Trump also that they simply cannot see the difference between a news source that says tells them what they want to hear and one that tries its best to tell the truth.

    RT also got some love from Occupy. Were many Bernie supporters also fans?

    • MistenakenlyUnembarrassed

      The only reason I found out about RT is because Berners on my social media feeds were sharing clips from RT’s Daily Show knock off “Redacted Tonight” which earnestly and repeatedly made the case that Hillary was beating Bernie via “election fraud”. Pretty depressing, they ran a million of these segments, exploiting viewers unfamiliarity with the process to push a pretty harmful conspiracy. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KfDYB465dYY

  • CD
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