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The conservative movement is filled with a tremendous number of horrible human beings.

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  • jim, some guy in iowa

    kind of hard to imagine any of those people doing much of anything outside their own little comfort zones when they were twenty-three

    • muddy

      That’s why she deserved to die. Didn’t sit home in the care of her Christian father.

      • J. Otto Pohl

        No, instead she was defending the rights of Palestinians, a large minority of whom are devout Christians, from having their private property destroyed by representatives of a state dependent upon US government welfare. Sounds to me like she was the real conservative and the people denouncing her are just a bunch of pinkos who don’t like people of faith. But, your mileage may vary.

        • Malaclypse

          No, Otto, the real “conservatives” are the real conservatives who were quoted. Your “real conservative” is a group of people consisting of nobody but yourself. I don’t blame you for wanting to wish them away, but that is the company you keep.

          • J. Otto Pohl

            Right because in 1948 all conservatives supported creating a socialist state under Ben Gurion in the Levant.

            • Rob in CT

              You may not realize this, but it’s 2015.

              • J. Otto Pohl

                Real reactionaries express a desire to go back to the past. ;-)

                • Rob in CT

                  They do, Otto.

                  In the US, this means sometime during the 19th century. Some favor the second half of that century and some favor the first half.

                • witlesschum

                  Never change, Otto. Glad to see you around here again.

            • Malaclypse

              I happen to have the 1948 Platform of the Republican Party right here…

            • Hogan

              A lot’s happened since then.

            • DrDick

              You may not have notice that Netanyahu is a hard right reactionary conservative who was invited to speak before the US Congress by the Republicans. The world changes, but you never do.

          • J. Otto Pohl

            BTW de Blasio and Warren are unconditional supporters of Israel are they also “real conservatives.?” Or maybe the mayor of NY and Senator from MA are Right Wing Nut Jobs?

            • Rob in CT

              Welcome to contemporary US politics. Again: 2015. “Real Conservatives” and “Liberal Democrats” are roughly equally likely to support Israel unconditionally. Roughly. There are some signs that things may be trending such that Dems will be the Israel-skeptical group in the future (reversing things from my recollection of, say, the 1980s).

              • NewishLawyer

                Maybe but I don’t think (and certainly hope) it will ever get to European extremes.

                I am not happy with Bibi’s blunder about speaking to Congress and think it was a serious misstep for Israel. And I worry about Israel becoming a wedge issue for Jews and the Democratic Party.

                I am a Zionist. I support the existence of a Jewish state and the two-state solution. My view of the history of anti-Semitism is that the creation of the Jewish state was necessary in the 1940s and it is still necessary today.

                The big question that I would love to hear from opponents of Zionism is where were the Holocaust survivors supposed to go at the end of WWII. It is clear that they were not welcome back in their home countries especially the Eastern European Jews and many Western nations did not want them as well and often for traditionally anti-Semitic reasons.

                New Zealand on post-Holocaust Jewish migration:

                “the worst thing about Jews is that they cringe and fawn when they are weak and bully and exploit when they have the power…and there is always the Jew’s uncanny ability to see always one move ahead of his competitors.” See The Penguin History of New Zealand by Michael King, pgs. 369-370.

                Can you blame Holocaust survivors for not wanting to stay in Europe after WWII?

                I do agree that anti-Semitism is very rare in late 20th and early 21st century United States society. But it is a mistake to confuse 2015 United States with even the 1960s United States. I fear that too many young anti-Zionists don’t really understand how big a deal anti-Semitism was and that there really was no place for Jews to go after the Holocaust.

                • MPAVictoria

                  Pretty much this. I completely oppose the current Israeli government but I still see a need for a two state solution.

                • Rob in CT

                  I’m fine with a 2-state solution, though I fear it may be unworkable.

                • joe from Lowell

                  I can understand the reasoning in the 1940s, but with our 20/20 hindsight, do you really think Jews are safer from anti-semitism in the 21st century wedged in between Syria, Egypt, Jordan, and Lebanon than in, say, Brooklyn?

                  Thousands and thousands of American Jews have emigrated to Israel. Don’t tell me that’s about self-protection.

                • Could have given them Bavaria. It would have been poetic.

                • NewishLawyer

                  Joe,

                  I am pretty confident in the ability of the Israeli military to combat a threat or direct attack from various hostile states in the Middle East.

                  I am also not a fan of the allegedly 20/20 hindsight thing. We don’t have time travel and you have to view events from the vantage point of the time and those who experienced said events. 6 million Jews were murdered by the end of WWII and they were simply not wanted in their native countries and even countries like the Netherlands proved to be a bit hostile to their Jewish survivors with trying to get them to pay back taxes on their property.

                  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/04/holocaust-survivors-taxed-amsterdam-camps_n_3010207.html

                  As I pointed out above, a lot of Western nations also stuck to their old-school anti-Semitic beliefs and these were the same beliefs that made it hard for Jews to leave Europe before the Holocaust. Maybe some of this is secondary anti-Semitism of “Europe will never forgive the Jews for Auschwitz.”

                  20/20 does not solve any of this and never will.

                • Gator90

                  One fundamental problem with a “two-state solution” is that neither Israel nor the Palestinians want it; only us westerners do. If it were going to happen, it would’ve happened a long time ago.

                  I think very few anti-Zionists (in whose number I count myself) begrudge European Jews their desire to leave Europe and have their own country in the 1940s. But the country was birthed in dispossession and land theft, and has turned into something of a monster. I think we, the Jews, would be better off with a new country, one to be shared equally with the Palestinians.

                • NewishLawyer

                  Also thousands of French Jews are emigrating to Israel because they feel that the French government is unwilling or unable to protect them from anti-Semitic attacks like the massacre at the Supermarket.

                  The Allies could have done lots of things but they didn’t.

                • joe from Lowell

                  I am pretty confident in the ability of the Israeli military to combat a threat or direct attack from various hostile states in the Middle East.

                  That’s nice, but it wasn’t really the question. I’m a great deal more confident in the ability of the American military to combat such a threat. That whole Atlantic Ocean thing doesn’t hurt the effort, either.

                  I am also not a fan of the allegedly 20/20 hindsight thing. We don’t have time travel and you have to view events from the vantage point of the time and those who experienced said events.

                  I don’t think you quite get the 20/20 hindsight thing. The point of the conceit is that of course we have knowledge of things they couldn’t possibly know, and they can’t be blamed for that. That’s why I wrote that I could understand that reasoning from people in the 1940s. Given what they had to work with, the conclusion they drew was quite reasonable.

                  and even countries like the Netherlands proved to be a bit hostile to their Jewish survivors with trying to get them to pay back taxes on their property.

                  That sort of thing sucks, and yet, when I compare it to suicide bombers in pizzerias and rocket attacks, it’s a very easy choice.

                • joe from Lowell

                  Also thousands of French Jews are emigrating to Israel because they feel that the French government is unwilling or unable to protect them from anti-Semitic attacks like the massacre at the Supermarket.

                  See, this is what is so nonsensical. “I just can’t abide the threat of terror attacks from Islamists. Let’s go move to that area between the Assad government and Hamas.” “Oh, my, ISIL is such a threat! Let’s go move next to Syria.” Do you see what I’m saying?

                  I notice that your comment isn’t actually about whether Israel is safer in fact than France for Jews. Rather, it’s about what the government is assumed to be interested in. Right there, that suggests that it’s a lot more about will-to-power than about security.

                • JL

                  The big question that I would love to hear from opponents of Zionism is where were the Holocaust survivors supposed to go at the end of WWII. It is clear that they were not welcome back in their home countries especially the Eastern European Jews and many Western nations did not want them as well and often for traditionally anti-Semitic reasons.

                  The Western nations should have gotten their damn acts together (and still need to get their damn acts together when it comes to dealing with refugees – Holocaust-surviving Jews are not the only group to have ever been screwed over by this problem). That they didn’t is terrible, and anti-Semitic, but doesn’t justify violently running a different bunch of people out of their homes to create a Jewish-dominance-enforced-by-law state.

                • witlesschum

                  I’m not a Zionist, I don’t have a particularly strong opinion about who should run the so-called holy land, though I think the idea that Jews should get it just because they’re Jews and supposedly their ancestors used to live there is absurd. I do have a strong opinion that whatever group does run things there should not kill and oppress their neighbors. That goes for everyone.

                  I especially object to paying for one side or the other to oppress and kill their neighbors.

                • Murc

                  I am a Zionist. I support the existence of a Jewish state and the two-state solution.

                  An increasing number of Zionists are trying to re-define the term to explicitly exclude favoring a two-state solution. Thankfully, they have not yet succeeded.

                  My view of the history of anti-Semitism is that the creation of the Jewish state was necessary in the 1940s and it is still necessary today.

                  I oppose on general principles the explicit creation of polities where ethnic or religious groups don’t have to share power with anyone different from them. Jews deserve the same human rights everyone does, but they do not have any kind of fundamental right to a polity that they will always control, any more than white people have a right to take steps, violent if necessary, to preserve the US as a majority-white nation.

                  Having said that, had there been empty land somewhere where Jews could settle and build their own polity, hey, nobody was stopping them. The main problem is that Israel was created in an act of grotesque ethnic cleansing. This is not a unique sin, as America was created in the same way, but it’s not something to be proud of, and the crimes of Israel have greatly eroded my sympathy for it, much as the crimes of my own nation have basically removed any vestige of patriotism I might once have possessed.

                • Rob in CT

                  What Gator90 said is basically my view of the founding of Israel, though I hold that to now be irrelevant. It’s done. It will not be undone, unless something horrible happens. And that’s fine in a sense – how many nations were founded in a “good” way? Indeed, I find Israel to be very much a normal country in many respects, and one of my big objections as an American is this business about how they’re better than other countries (just like the RW here likes to claim we are better than everybody else), without then holding them to a higher standard.

                  Having said it’s not relevant at this point…

                  I understand the desire for one’s own state with an army and all that, given what happened. But how it actually happened was pretty fucked up.

                  As to your question – where were they supposed to go – the best I’ve got is “the USA” and I get that it’s not actually a brilliant answer. In 1945, skepticism about one’s safety & comfort in America as a Jew would make quite a bit of sense. Looking back on it, it now looks like it would have been a fine choice. But in 1945… yeah, that wasn’t clear at all.

                  Trouble is, even if the answer is “huh, dunno” it doesn’t justify what was done in and is being done in what was the Mandate of Palestine and is now Israel/the Occupied Territories. As far as I can tell, nobody bothered to ask the Palestinians what they thought. I also think it’s interesting that an earlier project involved investigating creating a Jewish state in Uganda. Same deal: go to an Imperial power that controls some land and see if you can get their ok to set up a new state there. The concerns of the locals, well, um, err…

                • cpinva

                  “The big question that I would love to hear from opponents of Zionism is where were the Holocaust survivors supposed to go at the end of WWII.”

                  they were expected to die quietly.

                  “My view of the history of anti-Semitism is that the creation of the Jewish state was necessary in the 1940s and it is still necessary today.”

                  the jewish state wasn’t “created” after WWII, it was simply re-populated with returning jews, descended from those of the first diaspora.

                • Hogan

                  the jewish state wasn’t “created” after WWII

                  Say what you like about the British Mandate in Palestine, but I’m pretty sure it wasn’t a Jewish state.

                • wjts

                  the jewish state wasn’t “created” after WWII, it was simply re-populated with returning jews, descended from those of the first diaspora.

                  Out of curiosity, was it Judah or Israel that was the parliamentary democracy back in the first half of the first millennium BCE? I can never remember.

                • Murc

                  the jewish state wasn’t “created” after WWII, it was simply re-populated with returning jews, descended from those of the first diaspora.

                  … who vigorously ethnically cleansed and denied the rights of self-government and self-determination to those living on the land they were returning to, who had just as much right to be there as they did.

                • joe from Lowell

                  “The big question that I would love to hear from opponents of Zionism is where were the Holocaust survivors supposed to go at the end of WWII.”

                  they were expected to die quietly.

                  Uh huh. George C. Marshall wanted all of Europe’s Jews to die quietly.

                  Commence with the fucking off.

                • Malaclypse

                  descended from those of the first diaspora.

                  The First Diaspora? The one that began in 722 BCE? The one that gave us the phrase “ten lost tribes”?

                • DrDick

                  the jewish state wasn’t “created” after WWII, it was simply re-populated with returning jews, descended from those of the first diaspora.

                  Displacing the descendants of the far larger group of Jews who remained in Palestine and later converted to Christianity and/or Islam. Genetics shows that most Palestinians are descended from Hebrews.

                • CP

                  The big question that I would love to hear from opponents of Zionism is where were the Holocaust survivors supposed to go at the end of WWII.

                  And the big question that everybody in the Arab world and quite a few outside of it would like to hear from supporters of Zionism is how the fuck they got stuck with the duty of paying for the sins and solving the problems that had been committed on the other side of the Mediterranean.

                • CP

                  What Gator90 said is basically my view of the founding of Israel, though I hold that to now be irrelevant. It’s done. It will not be undone, unless something horrible happens.

                  Agree with you. Israelis have been living there for seventy years, in some cases longer. Demanding that they leave the only place they know to make place for the prior claims of someone else is as unreasonable as…

                  … well. As asking that all the Arabs move and make room was in the first place back in 1947.

                  I’m not asking for a reversal. However, to NL, if you’re trying to suggest that the Holocaust provides a superior moral justification for the original land theft and ethnic cleansing, don’t bother.

                • Lt. Fred

                  Imagine how much better-off everyone would have been if they just fled to the US (assuming the US lets them in)?

                • John F

                  The big question that I would love to hear from opponents of Zionism is where were the Holocaust survivors supposed to go at the end of WWII.

                  1. The US (many did- indeed today more Jews emigrate from Israel to the US than vice versa)

                  2. The allies should have depopulated a chunk of Germany and given it to the surviving European Jews (preferably boarding a western portion with a coastline) yes ethnic cleansing is bad but during/after WWII it was done- Germans were driven from the Sudeten land and Germans were driven from Königsberg which was repopulated by Russians.

                • John F

                  One fundamental problem with a “two-state solution” is that neither Israel nor the Palestinians want it; only us westerners do.

                  I think a real problem is that many of the Israelis and Palestinians who are opposed to a two state solution are not in favor of a one state solution with both sides living together peacefully and equally – their preferred one state solution involves either eradicating the other side or forcing the other side into a permanent subservience.

                  And as long as that’s a major factor, a 2 state solution looks to this outsider as the best/least worst option…

                • Hogan

                  (preferably boarding a western portion with a coastline)

                  Schleswig-Holstein! What could go wrong?

                • Gwen

                  Once again I generally tend to agree with NewishLawyer on the issue of Israel.

                  In 1948, it made sense to create Israel because centuries of statelessness was repeatedly shown to result in Jews being persecuted wherever they went. I still think that is somewhat true today.

                  With that said, I believe anti-semitism is more likely to be stamped out by American-style liberalism than by latter-day-Zionism, at least as it is practiced by the Likudniks. And, I agree with those down-thread who make the obvious point that Jews are safer in America than in Israel (likewise for Arab Americans).

                  I also happen to think that hopes that one outcome of the ISIS wars is that the Kurdish people should be given a state of their own.

                • CP

                  I think a real problem is that many of the Israelis and Palestinians who are opposed to a two state solution are not in favor of a one state solution with both sides living together peacefully and equally – their preferred one state solution involves either eradicating the other side or forcing the other side into a permanent subservience.

                  I think the real problem is that the United States has de facto thrown in behind the faction on one side that isn’t in favor of a one state solution sans eradication/domination. Plenty of conservatives explicitly favor this, and the rest of the country, while supporting a one state solution in theory, now refuse to do anything that might bring it about. Every time Israel pushes into the West Bank or goes on another carpet-bombing spree, we do nothing – all the while, we continue to supply and subsidize them and provide all the diplomatic cover they need.

                  (Heck, we spend plenty of time at the UN just running around trying to convince people not to recognize Palestinian statehood – even though you’d think that would be a pretty elementary beginning of a “two state solution,” and we consider it a crime against humanity for Arab states to similarly fail to recognize Israeli statehood).

                  The Bibi crowd knows that the U.S. will always have their back no matter how egregious their behavior, and figures as long as they have the U.S, they don’t need anyone else. So there’s no incentive to make them moderate, and instead they’re only getting crazier as time goes. Foreign involvement is far from the only thing that keeps this war going, but it’s certainly a big factor.

                • wjts

                  Schleswig-Holstein! What could go wrong?

                  Only three four people have ever really understood the Schleswig-Holstein business — the Prince Consort [and Lord Palmerston], who… [are] dead; a German professor, who has gone mad; and I, who has forgotten all about it.

                • njorl

                  I think the allies should have carved a state (or states) out of parts of Lower Saxony and N. Rhine-Westphalia. They should have dispossessed the German population and relocated them to other parts of Germany. The nation that committed the atrocities should have paid to redress them.

                • JL

                  I think a real problem is that many of the Israelis and Palestinians who are opposed to a two state solution are not in favor of a one state solution with both sides living together peacefully and equally – their preferred one state solution involves either eradicating the other side or forcing the other side into a permanent subservience.

                  More Palestinians favor a binational solution with equal rights than you might think, both anecdotally and in polling numbers (the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research says about a third, Near East Consulting says 70%, it seems to vary a lot by survey). Fatah and the PLO have officially favored a single binational state that includes Jews since 1969. I don’t know what the numbers look like for Israeli Jews.

            • joe from Lowell

              BTW de Blasio and Warren are unconditional supporters of Israel are they also “real conservatives.?”

              BTW, this is a man, isn’t he therefore named John?

              “Real conservatives are unconditional supporters of Israel” does not allow you to turn around and say “That means all unconditional supporters of Israel are Real Conservatives.”

              Oh, and your description of both of them is off-base.

            • DrS

              Ahhh…I do so love these little reminders of what a remarkably silly person you are, Otto

              • J. Otto Pohl

                Let me know when Warren and DeBlasio urge that Israel be treated like Rhodeia was after UDI okay?

                • Malaclypse

                  I, too, am unaware of the concept of an excluded middle.

                • J. Otto Pohl

                  Or just when Warren and DeBlasio urge that the US reduce foreign aid to Israel. Let us say they advocate slashing it to the level provided to Ghana.

                • ColBatGuano

                  How many strawmen do you have in there?

        • Ronan

          Most of the people I knew growing up who would have (vaguely) called themselves conservative would not have had anything close to the reaction in the linked article to Mueller. Self reliant, thoughtful, brave, willing to take chances, willing to help others personally..these were always attributes I felt conservatives valued.
          Debbie Schuzzle (or whatever her name is, I havent gone back to check) is basically just a right wing leninist.

          • Hogan

            Debbie Schuzzle

            Eh, close enough.

          • joe from Lowell

            Well, you live in Ireland.

            We have a…different…sort of conservative here the States.

            • Ronan

              well, Irish conservatives arent always a barrel of laughs and rationality, tbh ;) Im probably being a little nostalgic and romantic

              edit: i do think snuzzle is basically a leninist however.

              • jim, some guy in iowa

                “authoritarian” goes far enough for me

                the mindset is that if more people would just respect schussel’s authority the world would be a better place. those who don’t/won’t/can’t deserve every bad thing that comes to them

                it could be applied to any political thing, but in the u s mostly conservative republicans

  • muddy

    Surprise! Reminds me of Rachel Corrie.

    • Malaclypse

      My thought exactly.

    • JL

      I was just thinking that. Though in this case, the difference is that she was killed by people who happen to be Arabs rather than by the IDF, so according to this way of thinking, it’s ironic justice, because if you think all Arabs are the same and violent terrorists by definition and anyone who would work in solidarity with them is scum – and if you have no empathy whatsoever – I guess it’s delicious irony to think of someone who was helping them get killed by them.

      • cpinva

        that ISIS/ISIL has provided no evidence to support their claim, that she was killed during a jordanian air strike, leads me to not believe said claim. as far as i’m concerned, she was murdered in cold blood by her captors, until proven otherwise.

    • wengler

      Nothing like the violent death of an unarmed young woman to make conservative commentators happy.

  • timb

    As the wingnuts move further right, what surprises me is their unabashed moving to the right of Likud. The lengths they will go to dehumanize Palestinians and speak out in favor of actions which violate international consensus is just strange to me. They are one step away from erecting monuments to Baruch Goldstein

    • Pseudonym

      American wingnuts don’t have to live with/next to Palestinians and risk seeing them as human.

      • CP

        Yeah. More generally, American wingnuts don’t live there, many have never even visited, so the whole thing isn’t real to them – a lot of the louder and loonier voices are just acting out Bible fan fiction. It’s like support for the IRA used to be – you’ve got a bunch of people who’ve been raised to zealously believe certain things about the conflict, but because they don’t live there, they’ll never have to grow up, deal with the conflict as a real thing, have their perceptions challenged, etc. So they’re free to remain blissfully ideological and to keep getting crazier every year.

        • wjts

          It’s like support for the IRA used to be…

          That’s not a bad analogy.

  • Rob in CT

    As a commentor at RS put it: these people idolize a guy like Chris Kyle and hate Kayla Mueller.

    All they see is a liberal (supposedly, was she?) who got her comeuppance.

    It’s similar to but not quite the same as the post-collapse fantasy many of them have. You know, when shit falls apart and they all do fine b/c they have guns and stuff and the pansy liberals die because pansy liberals [extreme versions include them laughing at said liberals as they starve, or even shooting them for sport].

    • Hogan

      was she?

      She did something RWNJs disapprove of. QE fuckin D.

    • Orbis_Terrarum

      The Chris Kyle avatar lets wingnuts take a lifetime’s worth of anger, sadness, loneliness, and feelings of humiliation out on nameless brown people. What Mueller did – humbly go to an exotic and harsh place and help the people there on their own terms – is too scary and enormous for them to take on emotionally. QED.

      • Origami Isopod

        Similar to the Western nurse who was quarantined for Ebola, even though there was nowhere near the same fever-pitch of hatred against her. How dare she put herself at risk for “lesser” peoples.

  • Bitter Scribe

    Didn’t Debbie Schlussel call that Norwegian guy a hero for killing all those kids because they were race traitors, or something? I guess she’s trying to top herself. (Good luck with that.)

    • Hogan

      Pam Geller called them race traitors. Schlussel called them terrorists.

      • The fact that you remember that tells me you’re not drinking enough.

        • Hogan

          I looked it up, which points to the same conclusion.

    • guthrie

      The funny or not so funny thing is that to top oneself is slang for suicide.

  • JMG

    If any one of these disgraces to the species was to meet a violent death, even if it was completely random like a stray bullet incident or a hit and run, the wails they were being purged by their enemies would be ceaseless

    • AlanInSF

      Conservatives know a lot about oppression, and compared to what they’re forced to put up with every day under the Obama tyranny, Palestininians are living in Fat City. Why should they be sympathetic? Also, far-right conservatives really, really like Jewish people, and are fiercely opposed to anything that might cause us the least displeasure or discomfort. They are our bestest friends in the whole world, and always have been, even though we’re too stoopid to vote for them.

  • divadab

    Consider what kind of strange pathological personality would worship at the altar of Rush Limbaugh or consider Anne Coulter fuckable?

    • Rob in CT

      The Ann Coulter is ugly thing is… not best practice, dude.

      I do not find her attractive either, and her ideology makes her repulsive. But come on, you know why that’s not the right angle of attack.

      She’s an awful person. That’s enough.

      • CD

        Thanks for getting on the misogyny quickly.

        Perhaps any kind of personalization is the wrong angle of attack, because it appeals to our worst impulses.

      • Brad Nailer

        Give the guy a break. Maybe he’s referring to the fact that you have to talk to her when you’re done.

        • Jordan

          Thats … even worse? Go away.

    • Malaclypse

      When you’ve stooped to discussing the “fuckability” of your opponents, you’ve managed to lose the argument.

      • And thus lost an argument about *Ann Coulter* being an awful person. This is not an argument anyone should lose.

        • NonyNony

          It shouldn’t be possible to lose and yet it is one of the most frequently lost arguments on the Internet.

          Funny thing is – attacking her looks plays right into Coulter’s schtick. Her entire schtick is to go out and draw misogynistic attacks from the left so that she can say “see – the liberals are the real woman haters” and laugh herself all the way to the bank while making her fans feel better about their own misogyny (and causing themselves to pony up more money for her incredibly poorly written books – who reads those things? Can’t her publishers get her an editor?)

          Truly an artform – for a while I was convinced that her entire persona was a performance art piece that had taken on a life of its own. Like Stephen Colbert, but more cynical and with an actress less willing to deviate from the character she’d created.

          • Rob in CT

            She’s a second-rate grifter.

            Thing is, the state of contemporary US Conservatism is such that a second-rate grifter can do pretty well for herself.

        • JL

          Hear, hear.

          Not only do you lose an argument that nobody should lose, you cause splash damage to a whole lot of other people who were just going about their business.

    • MacK

      I knew a former boyfriend of Coulter – and I suspect – well. The only time I met her she was still a staffer for Spence Abraham, but she dressed, well streetwalker-chic. In fact that was when she came out with some racist stuff about miscegenation being a reason to keep asians out of the US to an RNC member without knowing that his wife (the mother of his children) was ethnic Chinese. She was fired a week or two later, which started her publishing career. I wonder if Michelle Malkin knows here views on caucasian-asian miscegenation….

      • politicalfootball

        Malkin has her own issues with Asian Americans.

        • Barry_D

          She’s quite – not good, but evil – in ignoring anti-Asian racism, so long as it fits in with her delusions.

          • timb

            And, the checks continue to cash. Remember the checks, Barry. The checks are VERY important

      • Rob in CT

        Malkin is, IIRC, more conventionally attractive than Coulter (or maybe that’s just me, who knows!). Thus illustrating that even if you put the sexism aside (which one should not do), bringing up attractiveness is dumb. Malkin is a frothing lunatic and a terrible person, like Coulter, which is what matters.

        See also: hur-hur Chris Christie is fat.

        edit: and right on cue, what ads do I get? Ads for Asian ladies. Ah, the internet.

    • rea

      Yeah, no offense, divadab, but I don’t consider you all that fuckable either. Actually, there are darn few people, all-in-all, I consider fuckable, and none in politics that immediately come to mind.

      Meanwhile, try not to replicate the misogyny of the other side.

    • Cheap Wino

      What does whether one finds Coulter attractive or not have to do with being pathological? Methinks you don’t have a clue about the sexual predilections of human beings.

  • Bitter Scribe

    Even by their own demented logic, demonizing Kayla Mueller makes no sense. She wasn’t there to help “Palestinians.” She was there to help refugees from the Syrian civil war, who were victimized by either Bashir Assad or ISIS, both of whom are villains, remember?

    They can’t even decide whom they’re mad at, and we’re supposed to take their advice. Jesus H. Christ.

    • Rob in CT

      They can’t even decide whom they’re mad at

      Other People. Them. Over there!

      That’s the level of thought at work here.

      • WabacMachinist

        The Marine Humvees roll into Fallujah while the soundtrack has the local muezzin calling the faithful to prayer.
        The takeaway: we’re at war with Islam.

    • J. Otto Pohl

      Earlier she had been in the West Bank with the International Solidarity Movement helping Palestinians.

      • Bitter Scribe

        OK, didn’t know that. Guess there’s no statute of limitations for that crime, is there?

        • Gator90

          According to a couple of the right-wing commentators in the linked piece, she helped Palestinians “harass” and “interfere with” the IDF.

          I think we can all agree the IDF is the real victim here.

          • JL

            She might have breathed in some of the tear gas that they meant for Palestinians! That’s like interfering, right?

          • tsam

            According to a couple of the right-wing commentators in the linked piece, she helped Palestinians “harass” and “interfere with” the IDF.

            Well if those guys say so.

            I didn’t know helping people (I know it can be hard to accept that Palestinians are people) not starve to death was a capital offense.

            • Gator90

              it can be hard to accept that Palestinians are people

              It can be hard; it took me a number of years, I’m sorry to say. Once that premise is accepted, most of Zionism’s premises become untenable, as does America’s support of Israel. Many people are therefore deeply invested in not accepting it.

      • Malaclypse

        Solidarity

        Truly a watchword of Real Conservatives ™.

        • J. Otto Pohl

          I use it all the time, especially in correspondence related to issues involving our labor union.

          • Malaclypse

            And there’s nothing at all narcissistic about how you have defined conservativism.

            • Hogan

              “Stuff J. Otto Likes.”

              • Rob in CT

                See also: Sullivan, Andrew.

              • JL

                “Stuff J. Otto Likes.”

                I’d read that blog. Probably at least as amusing as SWPL.

          • MPAVictoria

            Yes because right wingers have always been labour’s biggest supporters….

            • J. Otto Pohl

              In Ghana a large number of unions are more closely associated with the opposition NPP party than the ruling NDC party. The NPP officially supports greater free market liberalization. The ruling NDC party claims to be a Social Democratic party.

              http://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/NewsArchive/artikel.php?ID=333146

              • Bitter Scribe

                Again with Ghana.

                • Every blog needs its narcissist commenter.

                • Pseudonym

                  If Jotto didn’t exist would you have to invent him?

                • Malaclypse

                  If Jotto didn’t exist would you have to invent him?

                  If you invented him, nobody would find his character at all plausible.

              • Ronan

                I actually saw this book earlier, about Ghanaian complicity in the slave trade

                http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/where-the-negroes-are-mastersan-african-port-in-the-era-of-the-slave-trade-by-randy-j-sparks/2014/01/31/8c2877b8-829f-11e3-9dd4-e7278db80d86_story.html

                and immediately thought it’d right up your alley.

                Im not even taking the piss.I thought, ‘I have to recommend this to Dr Pohl next time he pops up somewhere.’

                • J. Otto Pohl

                  Interesting, I have heard similar arguments made about other areas of Ghana such as Elmina. Although the review leaving out the Danish as a major European slave trader in what is now Ghana seems odd. They were one of the largest slave traders here and Christiansborg (OSU) in Accra was the second largest slave castle after Cape Coast in terms of size and volume. The Virgin Islands were essentially populated from what is now Ghana by Danish slave traders.

          • DrDick

            Your imaginary friends are not the actual living conservatives I have been contending with for the last 55 years.

        • Pseudonym

          Prefixed with an adjective like “white” or “Christian” perhaps.

      • WabacMachinist

        Wow! Move over, Tokyo Rose!

    • Barry_D

      “Even by their own demented logic, demonizing Kayla Mueller makes no sense. She wasn’t there to help “Palestinians.” She was there to help refugees from the Syrian civil war, who were victimized by either Bashir Assad or ISIS, both of whom are villains, remember?”

      The right hates Them. Remember during the Iraq War, how very, very few right-wingers had a problem as it drifted from ‘liberate Iraq’ to a killfest?

  • advocatethis

    When I saw the headline to the piece, I knew that Debbie Schlussel was going to make an appearance. Pretty much the same reaction she had to the death of Marla Ruzicka.

    • wengler

      Debbie Schlussel is someone desperately trying to be as (ir)relevant as Ann Coulter. It would be sad if it wasn’t so horrible.

    • Aimai

      I thought there was an odor of mothballs and rot hanging about Schlussel’s comments. Imagine what her internet feed looks like? It must be primed to alarm her whenever a young woman is tragically murdered so she can come out and shit all over the body and the grieving family.

  • wengler

    Will no conservative commentator denounce the extremists?

    • J. Otto Pohl

      I did further up the thread.

      • rea

        Will no true conservative commentator denounce the extremists?

        • Pseudonym

          I think Jotto deserves his own category, something like the “No true Ghanaian” fallacy.

        • Jordan

          haha!

  • NewishLawyer

    As one of the resident Zionists of LGM and someone who considers himself liberal, I feel the need to say that the conservatives and Likudniks are being jerks by celebrating her death. Mueller did something very brave with her aide work. She is certainly braver than me. Same with Rachel Corrie even if I disagreed with her position on Israel. I saw the Rachel Corrie play in NYC and thought it was very good. It does not do the Zionists any good when we get hysterical about opposition views.

    • Aimai

      I’m not a zionist but I am a Jew. I don’t think that the phrase “does not do the zionists any good” belongs in any discussion of the kinds of people who celebrate the deaths of aid workers and young people attempting to serve humanity. Everyone involved with these deaths, or with the excuses for them offered by these soi disant “friends” of Israel, should kill themselves to spare the rest of us further embarrassment and horror and to clean up the world.

      • calling all toasters

        Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

      • tsam

        I’m not a Zionist or a Jew (and I’ll kindly refrain from tossing out an insult about religion), but I just can’t wrap my mind around how easy it is to dehumanize Palestinians for reactionary Isrealis and reactionary American conservatives. Stupidity doesn’t cover this level of fascist dick beating.

        But then my ideal world would have every fascist like ISIS members chopped up into little pieces and sunk to the bottom of the ocean. So maybe the only difference is that I think of people as human unless they clearly demonstrate otherwise.

        • CP

          I’m not a Zionist or a Jew (and I’ll kindly refrain from tossing out an insult about religion), but I just can’t wrap my mind around how easy it is to dehumanize Palestinians for reactionary Isrealis and reactionary American conservatives.

          No matter how low I know they can sink, they’ll always manage to find ways to top themselves and surprise me. And I only wish it was just conservatives.

          Unless I know who I’m talking to, I just plain avoid the topic. In America, that is. There are very few issues that are more likely to bring out someone’s most ugly, racist, sociopathic side than Israel/Palestine, and it’s hard to view people in the same way once you’ve listened to them spew enough.

  • DrS

    Speaking of horrible conservative shit heels, Sam Brownback still blows goats.

  • tsam

    I’m gonna hafta go there. Debbie Shoeshit is a See You Next Tuesday.

    • SV

      FFS…

    • Origami Isopod

      The C-word? Really?

      • SV

        No, the See-word. Completely different!

        Not the first time for this kind of thing from tsam, IIRC.

    • rea

      [edited as too harsh, but please don’t pull this misogynist crap]

  • John F

    Debbie Schlussel…
    I just had to go look at her website (you know how you just HAVE to poke at your sore tooth even though you know it s going to hurt?), and just random stuff:

    Jordan’s King Abdullah needs to take a page out of his late father’s playbook. He needs to repeat Black September, the 1970 massacre King Hussein led against Palestinians–most of whom supported the PLO. The ISIS crisis has its roots in that portion of the Palestinian rebellion that his father failed to snuff out. But the son simply doesn’t have the guts or the resolve of his father.

    So: 1. A massacre was a good thing? (Not saying it was or was not a “massacre”)
    2. the ISIS crisis has its roots in the PLO guys that King Hussein failed to kill? Really? So it didn’t have its roots in Al Qaeda in Iraq? Or Al Qaeda or the Muslim Brotherhood/Sayyid Qutb and the Whabbbi movement?

    So leaving aside her historical illiteracy let’s look at the logic, Abdullah’s father did X, and that lead to ISIS, therefore how you deal with ISIS is to do X again.

    * “A Most Violent Year“: Shoulda been called, “All the Bad Guys Are Jews.”

    Nonsense, literally every phucking character, Jewish and non Jewish is a bad guy in the film…

    . At the time, President Bush and his lefty, pro-Palestinian Secretary of State, Condoleeza Rice a/k/a Condi Clueless, in the original Arab Spring, were pushing for elections in Gaza, just as they pushed for them in Iraq and Lebanon, etc. That was after they pressured Israel to pull out of Gaza and give this historically Jewish land (but for a brief occupation by Egypt) to the Palestinians

    Condi Rice a lefty? Condi Roce???

    pushing for elections in Gaza

    Making the world safe for Democracy, pushing Democracy, isn’t that kind of the metaphysical Raison d’être for the US? Why we are the shining city on the hill???

    Gaza and give this historically Jewish land (but for a brief occupation by Egypt) to the Palestinians

    Historically? You mean 2000 years ago? Israel has as much a claim (if not more) to Damascus (I know don’t give her any ideas)

    • Just_Dropping_By

      the ISIS crisis has its roots in the PLO guys that King Hussein failed to kill? Really? So it didn’t have its roots in Al Qaeda in Iraq? Or Al Qaeda or the Muslim Brotherhood/Sayyid Qutb and the Whabbbi movement?

      A tremendous number of people, including many who should know better, are completely incapable of understanding that the sources of Middle Eastern terrorism in the 1960s and ’70s were almost completely different than the sources from the 1990s onwards.

    • Area Man

      So …the ISIS crisis has its roots in the PLO guys that King Hussein failed to kill? Really?

      Of course. Just a quick look at the timeline makes it obvious:

      1. 1970: Black September kills PLO members but failed to completely eliminate the organization.

      2. 1971-2013: Stuff happens.

      3. 2014: ISIS comes to prominence.

  • Joe_JP

    You can read her popular twice-weekly online column, “Debbie Does Politics,” on the Internet,

    Is this a porn site for conservative sociopaths or something?

  • There’s a scene late in Frederic Raphael’s “The Norman Conquests” (a mini-series broadcast in the mid-seventies) in which the central character takes questions following a public reading. One indignant audience member exclaims “Israel was paid for with the blood of six million Jews!” The speaker replies, “Maybe that’s not what the Arabs wanted for it.”

  • CP

    This isn’t the first time something like this happened – a journalist got gang-raped in Tahrir Square and the conservative blogosphere lit up like a Christmas tree with various versions of “that’s what she gets.”

    Not sure if this is worse or better, but really, once you sink that low, does it even matter?

  • Gwen

    I went to Debbie Schlussel’s web page. I see that she has a “Fan Club.”

    When I was younger and actively cross-dressing, I also found that there were a bunch of creepy older guys who wanted to bang me, so I can totally relate.

  • John F

    The Bibi crowd knows that the U.S. will always have their back no matter how egregious their behavior, and figures as long as they have the U.S, they don’t need anyone else. So there’s no incentive to make them moderate, and instead they’re only getting crazier as time goes.

    Wanted to comment on this- yes unconditional support for Israel is currently bi-partisan- which is why BiBi sticking his nose into US partisan politics is so mesmerizingly reckless- if support for Israel fractures along party line in the US, then you can no longer count on the US always having their backs.

    Some of it is that I honestly don’t think that he’s ever thinking more than a year or two down the road, he’s been drinking the koolaid his entire life (and sadly he’s not alone*), Israel is always in existential peril, he’ can’t worry that the US won’t have Israel’s back in 2024, Israel may no longer exist then.

    • CP

      Yep, I agree completely. It’s the most phenomenally stupid move I’ve ever read about from an Israeli PM. Israel has put all its eggs in one basket and worked very hard to alienate everyone except the United States. That can only work if they’re assured that the United States will give them consistent and automatic support, which is what they have at the moment. To endanger that support now that there’s no one else left would be far, far more ruinous to Israel’s security than an Iranian nuke – and turning Israel into a partisan issue would do exactly that.

      No, I don’t expect Israel to turn into a partisan issue overnight. But in the long run, you can’t just keep shitting all over any constituency without eventually facing backlash, and it’s stupid to take the chance. Especially if the example Bibi is setting now becomes the norm for Likud leaders, and I expect it will.

      TL/DR: it’s not like Israel has such an abundance of supporters that they can afford to be picky among the few that are left.

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