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Warren Running

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  • mark f

    I intend to volunteer, and Deval Patrick’s win in 2010 gives me hope, but I’m afraid this is going to be an uphill battle. Not least, unfortunately, because it will be a woman against a guy in a Carhartt.

    • A very uphill battle. Scott Brown is incomprehensibly popular across part lines.

      My own mother – the first ever to tell me that she hated George Bush, and someone who still spits out the name “Nixon” like he’s molested her granny – says she loves Scott Brown and thinks he’s doing a great job.

      She agrees with the man on almost nothing. I just don’t understand it.

      • mark f

        Oh, I remember talking to my retired public school teacher aunt while the Democratic primary was still going on. She said something like “the one I like best is Scott Brown, but I would never . . .” This is a woman who watches Rachel Maddow every night and who I doubt has ever voted Republican. It’s beyond me.

        • jeer9

          He’s handsome. My mother always voted for the best-looking guy, regardless of party.

          • Yeah, but my mother is an actual liberal. If she votes for Brown, it will be the first time she has ever voted for a Republican in her life.

  • c u n d gulag

    I sure hope they televise the debates into NY State.

    That should be good for some shits and giggles.

    I don’t think Brown could spell “IQ” if you spotted him the “I.”

  • Funkhauser

    Yes, just the person to connect with blue-class workers in times of economic troubles: a Harvard Law professor.

    I hope Mike Capuano gets back into it; I think he could wipe the floor with her in the primary.

    To bastardize Henry Clay’s phrase, I’d rather someone be elected than be right.

    • mark f

      Yes, just the person to connect with blue-class workers in times of economic troubles: a Harvard Law professor.

      Well, this is just an example of what I was talking about upthread. Her personal background is similar to Brown’s, and her education is probably slightly less elite (Tufts & BC Law for Brown; U. of Houston & Rutgers Law for Warren). But Brown has a truck and she has a vagina, so she’s a snot.

      I hope Mike Capuano gets back into it; I think he could wipe the floor with her in the primary.

      He got clobbered by Martha Coakley.

      • Malaclypse

        Damn you, mark f.

        • mark f

          That’s the second time in this thread you’ve done something that’s been done before!

      • Scott Lemieux

        He got clobbered by Martha Coakley.

        Game, set, match.

        • Murc

          Actually… should that be indicative of a lack of political skill?

          IIRC, and someone correct me here, Mass is a machine state, and hasn’t had a high-profile primary for years, and Coakley was the darling of said machine until it found out she had no game at all. Wouldn’t that indicate she’d cruise through a primary against just about anyone?

          • mark f

            I think that was a function of two of the three plum jobs belonging to Kennedy and Kerry for so long. When it looked like Kerry might leave his seat for the White House the jockeying was pretty intense, and the 2006 gubernatorial primary featured a significant breakdown of rote machine politics.

            As a congressman representing Cambridge and parts of Boston (among other working-class towns) Capuano only got 28% and won only one town outside his district.

    • Malaclypse

      Yes, just the person to connect with blue-class workers in times of economic troubles: a Harvard Law professor.

      A law professor who has spent her life studying the collapse of the middle class?

      I hope Mike Capuano gets back into it; I think he could wipe the floor with her in the primary.

      The Mike Capuano who lost to Martha fucking Coakley in the last primary?

      • I blame the Hillary voters.

        And by “Hillary voters,” I mean “my aunties,” who decided that a female nominee for Teddy’s seat was their rightful consolation prize.

        • Ed

          Older women can certainly be troublesome.

          Best of luck to Warren in what is likely to be an uphill and unsuccessful battle. I hope I’m wrong.

    • Yes, just the person to connect with blue-class workers in times of economic troubles: a Harvard Law professor.

      Warren is an especially good match-up against Brown. She neutralizes his greatest strength, while highlighting his greatest weakness.

      Brown’s strongest appeal is as a non-politician, an anti-politician. How a sitting state senator managed to pull this off is beyond me, but his independent, outsider brand was perfectly attuned to the anti-incumbent, anti-pol sentiment of the day. Running a career politician like Mike Capuano, who sounds like a Boston machine pol from central casting, would be a suicide mission. Running someone who has never sought elected office before is the best way to take this line of attack away from Brown.

      Brown’s greatest potential weakness is his connection to Wall Street and other Republican big-money interests. Not only is this a bad thing by itself, but it serves to undercut his regular-guy image. Warren’s record standing up for the little guy against Wall Street, and being bashed by troglodytic Washington Republicans for it, puts her in a good position to go after him on this.

      • BradP

        Elizabeth Warren is an “anti-politician”?

        • Malaclypse

          In a nation that considers John McCain to be a maverick, calling someone who has never held an elected office a non-politician is what you want to call out as unreasonable?

        • You mean the woman who has never sought elected office before, or held any position in a political campaign?

          The economics/law academic?

          Yes, Elizabeth Warren is an anti-politician.

          This is the easiest question I have ever been asked.

          • Malaclypse

            But Joe, only libertarians are non-politicians, because they will take the politics out of politics. Is she a libertarians?

            • Oh, you caught that, too?

              Support for regulation of financial entity is politics, while opposition to that regulation is not.

              By definition, because A = A.

          • BradP

            She couldn’t be more linked to the Obama administration at this point if she tried, and her non-political career has mostly revolved around politics. Whether she has run for office or not its a tough sell.

            Supporter: She’s an outsider, an anti-politician.

            Opponent: What’s her background?

            Supporter: She’s a Harvard professor. She has been a prominent advocate and advisor of government financial regulatory schemes. She was Chair of the TARP oversight committee. She spearheaded the creation of a government bureau for consumer protection. And on top of that, she is a favorite of the Obama administration.

            • Malaclypse

              Shorter Brad: unlike a good woman, she has worked outside the house, and had the temerity to be successful. Also, she knows things, and book-learnin caint be trusted.

              Cult-like indeed.

            • This is what you don’t get, Brad: most people do not use the word “politics” to mean “anything whatsoever to do with government.”

              They don’t think of the cop on the beat as a politician.

              Heck, Scott Brown was a sitting state senator, and he was able to run as an anti-politician. I assure, his appeal as such in Massachusetts was not based on his adherence to right-wing economic ideology.

            • Luckily, she’s running for office in Massachusetts, where all of these things are net positives. They may not be enough to overcome Brown’s very very pretty thing, but they all help her, not hurt her.

      • efgoldman

        Running a career politician like Mike Capuano, who sounds like a Boston machine pol from central casting, would be a suicide mission.

        Fixed.
        And I like mike, BTW. I think if I still lived in Belmont, he’d be my rep.
        In RI for the last 10 years, all i can do is send money and maybe do some volunteer work. Which I will.

        • Malaclypse

          When did you live in Belmont? I spent about a decade living on the Belmont side of Belmont St, and was am in the habit of fibbing and saying I lived in Watertown, because I was embarrassed to live in the same town (but by no means the same neighborhood) as Mittens.

          • efgoldman

            Lived in Belmont ~18 years, ’84-’02. Long enough to get my kid all the way through school in that system.
            Moved to RI when my employer moved my job from Boston. Also the only way we could ever afford to actually buy a house (we rented in Belmont).
            My daughter graduated Belmont HS in ’99, UMass in ’03.
            (And, JFL, my wife graduated UMass Lowell in ’99 also too, going back to school in her 40s.)

            • Malaclypse

              We were neighbors then – I was there 1997-2007. Rented part of what the Dept of Health eventually decided was the second most unsafe house in Belmont, from someone they considered the worst landlady in town. Good times.

  • BradP

    The progressive response to Dagny Taggart is gonna be a tough sell.

    She is gonna bring in A TON of money though.

    • Malaclypse
      • BradP

        She is a cultish figure whose cult estimates in her an unbelievable competency and incorruptibility. A “crusader” persona has grown up around Elizabeth Warren that masks the systematic problems of government, and will make the fallout of this race extremely anticlimatic regardless of the results.

        Basically, her perceived infallibility goes a long way towards confirming the political preferences of her followers.

        • Malaclypse
          • BradP

            We will see how the mythology surrounding “Wall Street’s Worst Nightmare” pans out.

            • BradP

              Her epic struggle against the minions and millions of the evil Koch Brothers will be the stuff of legends!

            • Malaclypse

              Why don’t you find a quote vaguely comparable to mine, instead of one where the most glowing quote is

              If track record counts for anything, you can believe that Elizabeth Warren will do precisely as she says. Because of that track record, the Harvard Law professor, who went to Washington and built a major following by relentlessly attacking the financial institutions for their anti-consumer agenda, will surely have the support of national progressives and Democrats, support she has unquestionably earned.

              Seriously, show me something cult-like. It took me two minutes with Teh Google. If both sides really are alike, that should be easy for you to replicate, right?

              • djw

                When you’re heavily committed to a ‘pox on both houses’ vision of politics (of either the village centrism-for-its-own-sake variety, or Brad’s shire libertarianism), cautious to moderate optimism that someone might be a serious, honest and decent public servant is beyond the pale.

                • BradP

                  When you’re heavily committed to a ‘pox on both houses’ vision of politics (of either the village centrism-for-its-own-sake variety, or Brad’s shire libertarianism), cautious to moderate optimism that someone might be a serious, honest and decent public servant is beyond the pale.

                  “Moderate optimism”?

                  Yeah right.

                • mark f

                  “Moderate optimism”?

                  Yeah right.

                  Is the readership of this board really the right group to presume overestimates the role or influence of a single freshman senator?

                • djw

                  If it helps, Brad, I’ll concede that there exists an identifiable subset of the people of the internet, online left edition, who probably became overly focused on Warren as a symbol of the potential for good, and got a little carried away (kind of like what happened with Rahm Emmanuel, but in reverse, and less so). I’m sure some rather embarrassing mash notes about Warren could be dug upin the diaries at Kos.

                  What this trivial phenomenon has to do with her candidacy (or viability as a candidate) for Senate, I have no idea.

              • BradP

                Did you miss the two New Republic “Elizabeth Warren cult” articles?

                You should type “Elizabeth Warren is my hero” into google.

                • Even the New Republic?

                • Malaclypse

                  Did you miss the two New Republic “Elizabeth Warren cult” articles?

                  Praise Cthulhu, yes. Who can argue with EvenTheLiberal New Republic?

            • We will see how the mythology surrounding “Wall Street’s Worst Nightmare” pans out.

              We already have. As Mal’s quote points out, we already have her record to consider.

              • Malaclypse

                I’m still waiting to find out why, when a vaginal-American has a record that liberals like, that this is cult-like.

                Maybe if EvenTheLiberal Yglesias decides that he sees starbursts Brad would have a case, but so far I’ve seen nothing. How this lack of evidence and over-reliance on theory ties in with libertarianism in general is left as an exercise for the reader.

            • DrDick

              This from a man who embraces Ayn Rand? Irony just self-immolated.

              • Malaclypse

                To be fair, Brad embraces Ron Paul more than Ayn Rand.

                Of course, nobody could ever think a cult surrounds Ron Paul.

                • I remember reading a thread on Reason’s blog in which they were bloviating on the subject of Barack Obama’s crazy, cult-like followers.

                  I replied, “What, did they buy him a blimp?”

                  They didn’t like that very much.

                • BradP

                  I initially was going to do the Ron Paul comparison, but you can’t really say anything about Paul without racism derailing it.

                  Of course, now I’m mysogynistic for thinking Elizabeth Warren has a cult-like following that has ridiculous expectations for her.

                • Malaclypse

                  Of course, now I’m mysogynistic for thinking Elizabeth Warren has a cult-like following that has ridiculous expectations for her.

                  Actually, I just think you get unreasonably annoyed when someone has shown ways to use government to improve people’s lives. But singling out a female does kinda indicate some issues, yes.

                • I initially was going to do the Ron Paul comparison, but you can’t really say anything about Paul without racism derailing it.

                  Oh how terrible!

                • BradP

                  Actually, I just think you get unreasonably annoyed when someone has shown ways to use government to improve people’s lives. But singling out a female does kinda indicate some issues, yes.

                  Regardless of whether I get unreasonably annoyed or not, the idea that I have singled out a female for that treatment is crazy.

                  1. Can you name a progressive public figure who you would rather have in a public office with power?

                  2. I have spread far more hate on Paul Krugman. FAR MORE. I hate Paul Krugman. I am annoyed by Elizabeth Warren’s followers (somewhat similar to the way I am annoyed by rabid Ron Paul followers).

                • DrDick

                  I hate Paul Krugman.

                  Libertarians always hate the truth, which is the enemy of their delusional cult of the Market Gods.

                • Malaclypse

                  I hate Paul Krugman.

                  I notice you can’t be bothered to say why, but just expect people to see the fact that you have an object for your Two-Minute Hate as being a normal thing.

                  Yea, Bush normalized torture, but Krugman is so fucking smug, what with the Nobel, and the facts and the figures, and the making fun of libertarians. I can see why you are pissed off about Krugman. Besides, both sides are at fault, or something.

        • A “crusader” persona has grown up around Elizabeth Warren that masks the systematic problems of government

          You need to stop speculating on the thought processes of people you don’t understand.

          A crusader persona has grown up around her specifically because of her actions taken in opposition to the systematic problems of government.

          To wit: her history, on the TARP board and in setting up the CFPB, of working to resist the problems of regulatory capture and other expressions of undue influence by large financial industry players on the government.

          And no, expression the opinion that hers is a doomed mission would not be a relevant rejoinder to this explanation of her appeal to liberals.

    • BTW, Dagny Taggart was a lawyer, soldier, and state senator with no background in any so-called “productive” industry?

      I’ve never read the book, but the descriptions I’ve read from others never lead me to that conclusion.

    • She is gonna bring in A TON of money though.

      Certainly not from Wall Street, as opposed to her opponent, who was the largest recipient of Wall Street donations of any candidate in the country in 2011.

  • Julian

    BradP, is she a cultish figure, or only a cultish figure?

    She could have a substantial following of reasonable voters who don’t have the preconceptions you ascribe to … no one in particular.

    Her perceived infallibility? Perceived by whom? Which followers?

    It will be easier to assess the validity of your argument once you provide specific rebuttable points.

    • Yog Sothoth, Devourer of Souls

      I know cultish figures. I worked with cultish figures while your race was still fleeing lions in the savannah. This Warren mortal is no cultish figure.

      • Bill Murray

        what do the souls of cultish figures taste like?

        • Yog Sothoth, Devourer of Souls

          That depends on the cult, mortal.

          Back when they still paid attention to the teachings of Joshua ben Joseph, that cult’s following had souls that tasted like a fine curry, rich and satisfying, with a flavor that truly let you know you had feasted. Nowadays, however, most in that cult taste like twinkies, with no flavor not patented by Dow Chemical. About the only souls less filling are those who worship the bland teachings of Ayn Rand and Ron Paul.

  • Mobile

    She should ditch the Ben Franklins, get a better perm, and stay away from Hyannisport, Harvard, and smiling Kennedys.

    • If she “ditched the Ben Franklins and got a better perm,” she’d look more like a pol who’d been made TV-ready by a team of image consultants.

      • Mobile

        And win. Sorry, that’s just the way it is. Americans are shallow, and don’t want to be lectured down to.

        • rm

          If we’re talking surface image, I don’t see a schoolteacher in that hairstyle-glasses combo, I see someone who looks upright, honest, and no-nonsense, a strong female role model, someone you don’t want to disappoint, someone who suffers no fools. Do you really think a blow dryer and makeup would improve on that?

          • Mobile

            I think you over estimate the average voter who is not highly educated, woefully uninformed, generally uninterested in logic, and at this time in our history, downright angry at what he considers the elite.

            Elizabeth Warren looks like the Harvard professor that she is. To Joe Blow, she may seem like somebody he has learned to resent. So, yes, a minor makeover may be in order.

            • mark f

              Yeah yeah, and John Kerry looks French. Say it enough times and some people will start to believe it actually means something!

              Elizabeth Warren looks like every middle-aged female professional I’ve ever seen. Big whoop.

              • Malaclypse

                Why, oh why, could she not look like this? Joe Blow will never vote for someone who does not look like that!

              • Mobile

                Screw this up and MA is stuck with Brown for as long as he wants and may lead to his campaign for POTUS. That we could do without.

                • Malaclypse

                  and may lead to his campaign for POTUS.

                  Because what the Republican Party hungers for is a Massachusetts politician with no record or principles.

    • lily

      If she changed her image, she’d be accused of trying to use her looks to get votes. She’s a woman – her looks will get scrutinized and criticized no matter what she does.

      • Thank you for the “why didn’t I think of that” moment.

        When was the last time anyone left a comment on this blog about how a male candidate needs a makeover?

        • Today we got a “Who’d Palin fuck?” thread and a “Warren’s not hot enough!” thread.

          A fine day for progressive politics.

  • efgoldman

    Couple things:
    1) Brown has real votes to answer for. With any luck/skill at all, they will wallpaper the Paul Ryan medicare budget to his ass.
    2) Deval Patrick has now been elected Gov twice in MA. In case you haven’t noticed, he is, how you say, black. He also has a hell of an organization, which I suspect will go all out for Warren, unless he wants the seat. I bet she asked, and he said no, already.
    3) CosmoBoy was elected in a very, very low turnout, off-year, off-month election against a terrible opponent running a hideous campaign. People will be voting for Pres the same day on the same ballot. The Commonwealth will go overwhelmingly for Obama. Organization+coattails.
    4) In another thread, reference was made to the old-line Dem establishment being against “people like Warren” (e.g. Pols without Penises). Except there really isn’t much of that old-line Dem establishment any more, not with three consecutive House speakers convicted of felonies, the latest on his way to the slammah.

    I am optimistic.

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