Huh. Wow.
Peggy Noonan said something insightful. This may well be the most shocking event of 2011 thus far.
The biggest takeaway, the biggest foreign-policy fact, of the past decade is this: America has to be very careful where it goes in the world, because the minute it’s there—the minute there are boots on the ground, the minute we leave a footprint—there will spring up, immediately, 15 reasons America cannot leave. The next day there will be 30 reasons, and the day after that 45. They are often serious and legitimate reasons.
So we wind up in long, drawn-out struggles when we didn’t mean to, when it wasn’t the plan, or the hope, or the expectation.
I agree with Robert Farley agreeing with Peggy Noonan: boots on the ground really is the danger point.
I’m relieved Obama ruled them out.
he also ruled out letting the Bush tax cuts continue. and he was committed to a public option. And he was going to restore the rule of law. and he wanted people to push him outside of his comfort zone. ad nauseum.
just cus he “ruled it out” doesn’t mean the dude’s gonna stick to that. Boots on the ground are coming, and coming quickly.
They’re already there, I guarantee it.
But those boots are just advisors and trainers of local forces.
Which is closer to a true statement:
1) Obama waited as long as he did to start the occupation of yet another oil producing ME country because he wanted the approval of Hillary Clinton, the UN and the Arab league. Or,
2)Obama waited as long as he did to start the occupation of yet another oil producing ME country because he was waiting until he had Xe/Blackwater and other CIA assets in place to guarantee the protection of Libyan oil fields and equipment?
Let’s get real here…
3) You keep using that word “occupation.” I don’t think it means what you think it means.
I believe the point is that “occupations” inevitably become actual occupations.
Uh, have you read the UN resolution?
No, not in this case. There’s built-in pressure to keep the operation limited. The coalition that got the resolution through the Security Council (there is “No Occupying Army” language in Res. 1973) and is carrying out the operation would fracture if it turned into an occupation. Especially the Arab League, which as we’ve seen today, is already showing that it wants to keep things limited.
Similar things happened in the Kosovo War, with Clinton, Cohen, Albright, and Clark constantly having to hold hand and limit their actions in order to keep the coalition together. With the Arab League on board now, the pressure against creep to an occupation will be immense.
And if Gaddafi attacks a US Navy vessel, there will be full out war and boots on the ground.
Of course, Special Forces and CIA and our mercenaries are already on the ground in Libya.
Awesome — joe from lowell, still shilling for anything and everything Dem. Weren’t you predicting a sweeping Dem congressional victory back in November?
Peggy Noonan said something smart? Wow. Some things in life need to be mysterious. Sometimes you need to just keep walking.
A broken clock, etc., etc.
I was thinking more like a blind pig finding a truffle.
But NO LIPSTICK, Sarah!
A pig with no nose, I think you mean…
How would it smell?
Like the death of all hope.
Like a pig. How else?
I agree with all that boots on the ground would be dangerous.
But it is worth pointing out – Obama has said there will be no boots on the ground. I hope he’s right, and I suspect he’s sincere. But it’s no guarantee, and as Noonan suggests, these things have a dynamic to them. Unless the Admin experiences some serious pressure over keeping this thing limited, the danger remains no matter what the rhetoric is. So I am not yet relieved.
There’s built-in pressure to keep it limited. The coalition that got the resolution through the Security Council and is carrying out the operation would fracture if it turned into an occupation. Especially the Arab League, which as we’ve seen today, is already showing that it wants to keep things limited.
Similar things happened in the Kosovo War, with Clinton, Cohen, Albright, and Clark constantly having to hold hand and limit their actions in order to keep the coalition together. With the Arab League on board now, the pressure against creep to an occupation will be immense.
The naive ones are always so cute.
Oh, look, you have no point, but you can pose!
Can you teach me how to lean against the wall, blow out a stream of smoke, and say “It’s all just bullshit, man?”
Pretty please?
Hey, he is going to close Guantanamo too! How many lies does he have to spew before you wake up?
OK, the Apocalypse is now officially here. When Our Lady of the Magic Dolphins says something intelligent the end of the world has arrived.
Either that or the president is a Democrat.
Bingo. The only way this would be note-worthy is if she had said it when an R was in the WH.
I’m holding off until “Our Lady Of Perpetual Butt Hurt” (Sarah Palin),weighs in.
Well, Peggy trashed Rumsfeld’s book, too.
In doing so, Noonan wrote “It is the great scandal of the wars of the Bush era that the U.S. government failed to get [bin Laden]“. I considered the institution of a world-wide system of torture to be significantly more scandalous, but that’s just me.
[...] see. I’m not saying that it WILL happen. But I’m concerned about where these things lead us, and what motivates my government’s military campaigns beyond the official rhetoric. I have [...]
Noonan, as usual, is either completely wrong or lying. The essentially permanent presence of the U.S. military in Iraq and Afghanistan was the plan, the hope, and the expectation of the people who initiated those operations.
How else to explain the construction of military bases that commenced immediately upon arrival in Iraq? Is it a coincidence that the U.S. only cares about the suffering populations of countries that have oil?
The U.S. is a military empire. Everything the government and its PR flacks like Noonan say about the U.S. military is designed to enable American citizens to maintain the delusion that their government is not a military empire operating for the benefit of the ruling class.
Is it a coincidence that the U.S. only cares about the suffering populations of countries that have oil?
Except: The Afghanis don’t have any oil. Pretty much all they have is rocks and poppies.
Afghanistan may not have oil but they are rich, rich, rich in mineral resources, the kind needed by our MIC to continue the empire.
I don’t remember anyone ever claiming that the purpose of the Afghan War was a humanitarian intervention. People would cite humanitarian purposes, with varying levels of plausibility, as positive side effects, but that war was always presented as one fought for our own national security.
And we only asked Halliburton to build us those bases in Iraq so some of our boys could watch over whatever chief rode his camel into Saddam’s palace. Y’know, a friendly Texas-sized reminder of who it was kicked out the bad guys and brought democracy to the Middle East. ‘Least that was the plan Condi gave me.
You’re right about Iraq, anyway. The National Review was constantly talking about replacing our “provocative” bases in “the land of the two holy cities” as a reason for the Iraq War.
It was pretty strange, because they sounded a lot like bin Laden.
You mean like Haiti and Kosovo?
Oh wow, Peggy Noonan is right? Question: why did she wait until a Dem was in office to be right, hmm? Peggy and the rest of the rightwing are just setting up Obama to fail. And he is falling for it, hook line and sinker. What’s the over/under on how long it takes after the inevitable “boots on the ground” that right-wing talk radio suddenly becomes isolationist and Vietnam becomes the new meme? This people just want to undermine Obama by whatever means possible, and if that includes telling the truth, well, that’s bonus points. I just wish he didn’t help them out so much
The problem with Boots Onna Ground(tm) is that we’re pretty much out of boots.
There are already boots on the ground in Libya. Libyan protester/rebel boots.
Just today, they resumed their offensive after our air strikes.
This is a departure for you, Farley. Yeah, some of us still remember your chickenhawk mouth.
So, I missed something. What is wrong with being there a long time?
[...] Read more… [...]
Those aren’t real people to Noonan. hell, you and I aren’t real Americans and only real Americans are people
“Real danger” is your term, not mine. I suggested no such thing.
The shooting of cruise missiles is already happening. But the same principle applies – right now, we are told this is to enforce the no fly zone, but an added danger is that next we’ll be bombing cities or infrastructure. I don’t find it realistic to talk about ending all military action here, regardless of whether that’s warranted, but I do find it realistic to talk about limiting it (while acknowledging how difficult that would be.)
FWIW, I believe this action, lacking any congressional authorization, is flatly unconstitutional (although that does not make it unusual), no matter the merits.