Home / General / Not that this would stop Trump, but….

Not that this would stop Trump, but….

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I mean, he’d probably enjoy it. But still.

Incidentally, driving around Montana yesterday, I stumbled across an ICBM launch site in the prairie. Don’t know if it’s still operational or not. Maybe we will find out!

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  • majeff

    The volunteer must be Ivanka.

    • N__B

      In that case, the code has to be somewhere other than her chest. I believe the legal term for his thought process if he had to look there is “attractive nuisance.”

  • Robbert

    Jesus, man, you’re on fire today. Were it that all blogging was this ‘light’.

  • Trump would never do this himself. He would hire someone else to do it. And then he would call that person out on twitter as a bloodthirsty murderer.

  • BiloSagdiyev
    • allium

      Possibly by a young Zefram Cochrane.

    • Arguman

      “for people who worry about the end of the world and have cash to burn.”
      Hate these people

  • RBHolb

    Given the zeal of the Trumpoids, there would be no shortage of volunteers.

    • BiloSagdiyev

      The job does require you to be be near the president at all times.

      Hey! Let’s make it interesting! Give that person a knife, too! Or make it a pacifist with a launch code inside them, with an axe.

      • N__B

        The recall code is in a capsule implanted in the president’s chest.

  • McAllen

    Trump would do it, but he would also fuck it up and stab the person in a way that made the code unreadable, so it would still work out in the end,

  • hellslittlestangel

    Trump could just tell Eric or Little Donald to do it — either of those wretched fuckers would be thrilled.

    • njorl

      Put a code in each of them and give them each a knife.

    • Unemployed_Northeastern

      Unpossible because he has made a layer of separation with his sons so they can run the business without it being a conflict. He only picks up their calls after the phone rings twice now.

  • Cheap Wino

    “big, heavy butcher knife”

    Handle would have to be redesigned for 45.

    • farin

      It isn’t actually an appeal to human decency that makes the plan work, it’s just ergonomics.

  • kathy Klos

    Seems like a stupid ideal since if publicly known would reduce the deterrence of MAD. Any other power w/o such a system would have free hand to think a first strike might work.

    Trump is scary, but the Electors should have stopped him, the oppstion noticing the republicans had turned gerrymandering and voter suppression into an art should have stopped him. Si-fi levels of silly about weapons codes are not really the answer and seem well silly.

    • When we are creating fantasies that “the electors should have stopped him” I think the silliness is already there.

      • SpiderDan

        Your reading is literally correct (because the Electoral College is indeed used for that office), but I read that statement as “the people who elected him,” i.e. trying to use a fancy way to say “voters.”

        • Hogan

          The capital E points toward Erik’s reading.

      • Murc

        Well, she’s not wrong per se. The electors should have stopped Trump. They weren’t ever going to, but decent people should have.

        We’re in this situation because a lot of people aren’t decent.

    • Joe Paulson

      The Electoral College never was applied as some independent body and the people chose to be electors generally are party loyalists. If you actually are thinking seriously here, why would some Republican loyalist elector be “faithless” here? You don’t mean the voters, do you?

      The idea might be to make this a requirement for other nations too — put it in nuclear treaties. Of course, the fear there is Putin etc. are more likely to have no compunction getting their hands bloody like that as compared to those heading this country. But, net, the idea is probably that nuclear war is a bad idea and MAD is stupid.

  • CaptServo

    This would slow him down for as long as it took to lay down a tarp.

    • Unemployed_Northeastern

      I dunna; a 71 year old man who disdains physical exercise and has battled EXTRA FOOT BONE DISEASE being able to pick up and use a mildly heavy object?

      • BiloSagdiyev

        I know of a certain aged football star who will soon be out of prison now who might be of some assistance.

        • Drew

          The Juice is loose!!

  • sleepyirv

    I have a hard time believing that’s how people at the Pentagon reacted. I would bet they were more, “What the fuck are you talking about?”

    • Wapiti

      It’s an idea that requires magical thinking.

      • wjts

        I suppose it depends on where and how it’s implanted, but breaking into the chest cavity (even if you don’t care about the victim surviving) takes some effort, particularly if there’s something in there you don’t want to damage.

        • Zamfir

          I am sure we can write some spec for this, “Information and items retrievable only through in-person application of lethal force”, then collect various proposals from contractors.

          From a practical POV, I don’t think this is particularly outlandish. At least compared to, say, speccing and developing anti-personel mines or nerve gas or so. Which practical people manage just fine.

          • wjts

            The issues as I see it are as follows:

            1. Where are you going to put the codes in the thoracic cavity? I don’t have the expertise to really answer this, though I could maybe make some informed guesses. Relatively superficially on the lateral side of the thoracic cavity would seem like the most efficient option from an extraction perspective, but having a foreign body pushed right up against the lungs seems like it might cause problems. There’s a little more room in the mediastinum, but that makes it much harder to get at.

            2. Dealing with the person carrying it. I imagine that when push comes to shove, the guy with the codes in his chest may not be real eager to do the job he signed on for. So plan for a certain amount of struggle. I suspect someone’s going to have to shoot him before we can get the codes out.

            3. Getting it out. This depends on where it is. If it’s superficial, you can probably do it by making an incision between the ribs and using a rib spreader. I don’t have any experience doing this. If it’s deep, you’d probably need to remove the sternum and ribs. Whether or not it’s faster to cut the skin off the chest and then use shears to cut through the ribs on either side of the sternum or just cut the ribs with the muscle and skin still attached, I’m not sure. I kind of lean toward the former, but I guess it depends on the quality of the shears and the thickness of the soft tissue. Either way, it’ll take some time.

            4. Who’s doing it? If the point is to make the President do it to drive home the reality of what he’s about to order, this will be a problem. People can be taught to do this sort of thing, but if your first experience with cutting up a human body is someone you know who was alive until a few seconds ago and you’re doing it while a bunch of people are watching and the ChiCom nukes are going to hit any minute now, you’re probably not going to do a great job. Also, you may not have a very good idea of where you need to cut and there’s a chance you’ll damage the codes. If we let someone else do it for the President (doctor, Army medic, etc.), the procedure will probably go much more quickly and much more smoothly, but it does sort of defeat the purpose of the exercise.

            • DJ

              Well, now I lost my appetite. So much for lunchtime.

            • Zamfir

              Think out of the box! How about in the neck, attached to on artery. Or electronic – some NFC enabled device that returns the code to a special scanner when queried, and then sets off a tiny explosive charge.

              There is an obvious solution to the volunteer problem: put the device in the president. It’s powerful symbolism. Accept the job, accept the responsibility.

            • Technocrat

              Jesus:

              “Status!?”
              “Missiles crossing Arctic Circle, Sir”
              “Hold Still!”
              “No, wait I changed my mind!”
              “Sir, we need a launch SOON!”
              “Shut up! He’s faster than me!”

            • Hogan

              You’ve thought about this a lot, haven’t you?

              • wjts

                Not really. I knocked that out in less time than it took to brew and drink a cup of tea.

                • Hogan

                  I didn’t just mean today.

                • wjts

                  How to open up a chest cavity to take out the things inside of it? Yeah, I guess I’ve thought about that a lot over the last ~7 years.

                • Hogan

                  This is what I was thinking of:

                  Hank: I’ve thought a lot about it and if we can’t get the antidote in time and it comes down to it… I… well, I want you to be the one to kill me.

                  Brock: Don’t talk like that Hank. We’re going to find…

                  Hank: Promise me Brock!

                  Brock: Ok

                  Hank: Promise me.

                  Brock: Ok, I promise.

                  Hank: Super swear?

                  Brock: Yes Hank.

                  (pause)

                  Hank: Hey Brock, how would you do it.

                  Brock: You’re asleep, quick jerk on the neck, you’ll never feel a thing.

                  Hank: You’ve thought about this.

                  Brock: Yes, I have.

                • wjts

                  Heh.

        • Drew

          It’s amusing to think of this in the context of a hypothetical Frist administration.

          • wjts

            Ben Carson, Howard Dean, and Jill Stein could probably handle it, too.

      • sarafina

        you say that like it’s a bad thing …

    • Whirrlaway

      They were big into game theory in those days. Remember, Mutual Destruction must be _Assured_.

      … probably you know some of those Titan silos have filled with ground water and you can go scuba diving in them? If you want to? Creepy;.

  • aab84

    This doesn’t apply to Trump specifically, but the bellicose response of some evangelical leaders to North Korea reminds me that we (other than Fred Clark) don’t talk nearly enough about the impact the rise of dispensationalism and end times theology has had on political discourse. I mean, how do you have a reasonable nuclear policy or middle east policy when a non-negligible chunk of one party’s base thinks everything needs to go to hell as fast as possible so they can get to heaven without dying? There are a bunch of pastors out there who would tell their flocks cutting that guy’s chest open is not only justified but actually godly.

    • DAS

      “If dying a horrific death on the cross was good enough for Jesus, suffering or death is good enough for you” isn’t limited to dispensationalists.

      But your larger point is also very important: too many people on the left cannot even bother to distinguish between Dominionists and Dispensationalists; there is a reason why many evangelicals went for Trump rather than Cruz — they’d rather have a non-believer who’ll “immanentize the eschaton” than someone who wants to build God’s kingdom with human hands (which they see as hubristic and ultimately futile).

      • I think a big issue is what the religion does when it comes down to asking the impossible of people. Judaism tends to say “you’ve got to live your life though there are some seriously red lines.” There’s a way of interpreting Christian grace that means God makes bad deeds into good ones. It’s reasonable if you start with, well, you’re poor and you have to work for a living and don’t have time to pray so much, or be celibate, or put a lot on the collection plate. Then it’s reasonable that you’re a responsible employer and you can’t always be charitable to your employers or to rivals (who may not be church members besides). Then it’s reasonable that you have to play by the heathens’ rules if you want to exert power (on the church’s behalf) in a fallen world.

        Then you may as well vote for the heathen scourge of the wicked, after all, God works in mysterious ways.

      • Unemployed_Northeastern

        I think it’s simpler than that: evangelicals went with Trump because he would nominate conservative judges more likely to overthrow Roe, Lawrence, Obergefell, etc., and relax the rules disallowing churches from endorsing political candidates. Political expediency trumps religious devotion.

    • I think your over-estimating the sincerity of their convictions. It’s a grift and they all know it. Just no one wants to break the kafabe of beliefs while the cash register is ringing.

      • Hogan

        The pastors, yes. Not the flock.

    • It’s a theological version of heighten the contradictions, the worse the better . . . the wish for a smaller and better church may be part of it. If someone makes a common sense objection, excommunicate them and double down. Eventually you end up in a place where every small movement away toward something more sensible just drifts back again, and here we are.

      Their method of Biblical exegesis doesn’t help.

  • varmintito

    I’ve made similar arguments in the past. When it was apparent that Bush was eager to attack Iraq, I said he should first be required to strangle an adorable infant in a cute outfit with ducklings and kitties, with his bare hands, in front of her parents, on national television, so there would be no doubt that he and the rest of us understood what he was ordering, multiplied many thousand-fold.

  • SatanicPanic

    I dunno, I have read a few things in recent days that suggest it won’t happen, but after Nov 2016, I’m really not ready to hear predictions about the worst not being possible. This whole thing looks bad and very dangerous.

    • Unemployed_Northeastern

      He’ll press the button just to show that he has bigger hands than Kim Jong. Which he probably doesn’t.

  • William Berry

    The writers used exactly this scenario (capsule next to heart) in the last couple of episodes of HBO’s “The Leftovers”*. I vaguely wondered at the time whether or not it was an original plot device. Now I know.

    *Great show, btw. Makes no discernible sense overall whatsoever, but well-acted, mostly well-written (especially dialogue), and perfectly weird at all times.

    • how_bout_never

      The Black Mirror version from the first episode, involving a politician, a pig and an unnatural act, seems to be a better fit. When you’re a delusional narcissist nothing matters unless happens to you. Other people are only there to reinforce the illusion.

    • I read the book and thought it was OK but Perrotta can get on my nerves. I know the critics loved the TV series but any thoughts from others?

      • alboy2

        I’ve never read the book, but the series (especially the final episode) was all kinds of great. I highly recommend it. At times, almost as indecipherable as “Twin Peaks-The Return,” but damned good entertainment, imho. Both Justin Theroux and Carrie Coon knocked it out of the park.

      • sam

        I haven’t read the book, but from what I understand, the first season basically covered the book. the second and third seasons were entirely new creations (and were widely considered to be MUCH better than the first season). Perotta was involved in the entire run of the show.

        I loved the entire series, and the first season is somewhat necessary as laying the groundwork for what happens in 2 and 3, but it boils down to the idea that in season one, they basically forgot that, even in the face of horrible tragedies, people still experience joy. Everyone was just so sad and lost all of the time. It was beautifully performed, and emotionally affecting but not exactly…pleasant to watch.

        They course corrected for that in the later seasons in some really amazing ways. It was still heavy and heartbreaking, but sometimes it got really damn funny too.

        I still have the finale on my DVR because I want to be able to re-watch it again at some point (even though i could watch it on HBO GO whenever I want). I just sometimes look at my recordings list and see the episode title and get a little pang in my heart. That’s how affecting it was.

        Carrie Coon is a goddess among women.

      • Bob Loblaw Lobs Law Bomb

        The show exhausts the novel’s material at the end of the first season, although it takes some really remarkable detours and side roads that are not in the book.

        I really loved the first season, but there’s a developing consensus that it’s something that you have to “get through” in order to arrive at the joys and wonders of the second and third seasons.

      • how_bout_never

        The performances were good enough to overcome Lindelof’s usual half thought out shtick of strange events making people behave in strange ways because it’s easier to write. If Perotta gets on your nerves then the Lindelof-Perotta combo might veer too far into the suspension of the suspension of disbelief. Don’t forget Eccleston in that list of actors knocking it out of the park.

  • MikeG

    That wouldn’t stop Trump. He’d probably stab the guy out of curiosity one day just to see if the codes were really there.

  • thispaceforsale

    The break glass in case of emergency option: Twitter silences the account of Trump.
    Nuclear war avoided.

    • postmodulator

      Twitter has never been profitable and they don’t really have a path to it. I’m sort of curious what happens if they have to shut down.

      • Perkniticky

        Would shutting down twitter take away all Trump’s power? Interesting thought. Nah, he’s just switch to instagram or something.

  • Robespierre

    Wait, _the volunteer_ would carry the large butcher knife? That’s… interesting, but I doubt the volunteer could be trusted to cooperate…

    • Lurker

      This was written, I understand, in 1950’s. At that time, even Western countries were much more collectivist than today. It was actually a sensible proposal. The Second World War had ended only ten years earlier, and during it, all participant nations had required similarly senseless sacrifices from their citizens. The pacifist proposer could quite well trust that the military could find a person whose psychological makeup would make him accept his own destruction without remorse. After all, that same attitude was essentially required of anyone working in an SAC base or flying a nuclear bomber. Utterly few SAC personnel would have survived a nuclear war and they knew it.

      • Hogan

        This was written, I understand, in 1950’s.

        1981. Says right at the top.

  • Amadan CBEB

    “Gentlemen! You can’t fight here! This is the War Room!”

  • RogerAiles

    “No, I’m sorry, Mr. President. You shouldn’t have given me this big, heavy butcher knife.”

  • carolannie

    Even better, implant it in the President’s chest.

    • postmodulator

      “Mr. President, only you have the authority to give the order to launch nuclear weapons. This authority is absolute and the order cannot be countermanded, but it is physically impossible for you to survive giving it. Your security detail has been given training with autopsy tools to expedite the process but does not have access to anesthesia. Have a nice day.”

  • Chet Manly

    Just adding an FYI for Loomis, since it’s in Montana it’s an active site. The three active missile wings have launch sites in Montana, North Dakota, and the WY, CO, NE tri-state area.

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