Home / General / The deeply mysterious semiotics of the Unite the Right rally

The deeply mysterious semiotics of the Unite the Right rally


Maybe Ann Althouse and Glen Reynolds could organize a conference on the complicated question of whether this poster indicates that there may have been some sort of anti-Semitic undertone to yesterday’s gathering of proudly White men.

Just a suggestion: Mr. and Mrs. Jared Kushner could no doubt add some much-needed perspective on the matter.

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  • NeonTrotsky

    They were literally chanting “Jews will not replace us”. I imagine they could chant “Hitler had some pretty good ideas” and fox would still say it was up in the air if they were racist or not.

    • Daniel

      Autobahn! Raaaaah!

      • Hypersphericalcow

        Me finding out that “At least Mussolini made the trains run on time” was actually a sarcastic joke was a big deal.

        • Daniel

          Not sure about the history of the Mussolini line, but the Autobahn thing initially wasn’t a sarcastic joke. Some people are truly that dumb.

          • wjts

            Perhaps I’m wrong, but… didn’t he? Whereas in the Mussolini case, the trains a ran as badly as an Italian train system.

            • Daniel

              Yes and no (or “jein” as a German would say). He executed plans for an Autobahn system which had been developed already during the Weimar Republic. But whether you credit him or not, it’s of course ridiculous to suggest that this could in any way be weighed against his other endeavors.

              • Hogan

                Eisenhower built the interstate highway system. Ergo Eisenhower was a Nazi. CHECKMATE . . . SOMEONE.

                • wjts

                  And do you know who else loved dogs? ADLAI STEVENSON.

                • LeeEsq

                  Ah, what a cute Dalmatian.

                • Captain Oblivious

                  Are there non-cute Dalmatians?

                • Aaron Morrow

                  If this picture was taken between after the 1952 election but before the 1956 Democratic National Convention, I no longer wonder why he was renominated.

        • philadelphialawyer

          My understanding is that he made the express trains that tourists and big shots rode run on time at the expense of the other trains that the workers and ordinary travelers rode on. Rather than actually doing anything to improve train service over all.

          • LeeEsq

            Thats a common strategy everywhere though.

            • I think the 4 train to yankee stadium is about on level with the rest of NYC trains

          • JSC2397

            I also read somewhere that Mussolini’s rail-scheduling successes had a lot to do with his having the clock systems on both the trains and the rail stations, made adjustable, so that they would always coincide; “real” time notwithstanding

            • philadelphialawyer

              LOL! The Long Island Rail Road has a much simpler approach. A train is considered “on time” by the LIRR if it arrives within 5 minutes and 59 seconds of its scheduled arrival time!

              • Drew

                Oftentimes at penn station NJ Transit will announce ten minutes before (when they generally board) “the X o clock train is now entering the station. Please stand by for boarding which will begin momentarily.” Generally speaking, they don’t ask you to “stand by” if the train’s on time-they just announce the track number. So often that is a circuitous way of saying the train will leave a little late without actually saying it.

      • LeeEsq

        Talk about a Motte-and-Bailey argument.

    • wjts

      It’s an open question among historians whether or not the German government between 1934 and 1945 can accurately be referred to as “Nazis”.

      • DocAmazing

        No, just NDSAP-curious.

      • jamespowell


      • brad

        Look, some photos do show some Nazi government officials in Nazi regalia among other Nazis, but what about the areas AROUND those pictures? Maybe there were a bunch of Jews dancing barefoot and sharing grapes with the Nazis. How do you know?
        (reminder, I’m not Ann Althouse, even if that is her line of “reasoning”)

        • wjts

          Look, all I’m saying is that if Hitler was a Nazi, why did he have prominent Nazis like Ernst Rohm killed and if the German government was a Nazi organization, why did high-ranking government officials like Canaris try to assassinate Nazis like Hitler?

          • brad

            He even killed Hitler’s dog, ffs, I know. What more did the guy have to do?

          • John Revolta

            Dude. Hitler KILLED HITLER!! And Hitler was like, the TOP NAZI EVARR! So ergo, he COULDN’T HAVE BEEN A NAZI!!

            • DonBoy2

              Some standup has a joke about that: “Nobody ever talks about the good things that Hitler did. Like, killing Hitler.”

              • BiloSagdiyev

                +1 Drunken Australian

          • Donalbain

            If Hitler was a Nazi, how come he killed the leader of the Nazi Party?

      • And remember, National Socialism is just a form of Socialism anyway so CHECKMATE LIBS AND LEFTIES!

        • Daniel

          That’s depressingly common.

          • CP

            Their worldview needs it. They live in a binary and tribal universe. It’s not in their nature to, say, condemn fascism, admit that fascism is of the right, and argue that it’s still possible to do right wing politics without fascism – i.e. what most left-of-center people argue WRT communism. For them, you’re either with them or against them. The right is with them and good, the left is against them as bad. Ergo, if Nazis are bad, then Nazis must be of the left, as are all evil things.

        • Linnaeus

          Of course it is. “Socialist” is right there in the name!

          • Yeah, I used to answer by saying “I remember that great democratic state called the German Democratic Republic. Also known as East Germany. Great democrats, they were. And they had a real sense of community too. Neighbours looked out for neighbours. You see, they had this neighbourhood watch program called the Stasi. Great democrats, they were. They made sure everyone voted.”

      • mattmcirvin

        You have to get into the layers of metadata.

      • Hogan

        Schmeling, of course, was never a Nazi. As I get the picture, there were never more than six or seven Nazis in Germany. But they worked very hard.

        • DocAmazing

          Brownshirtian movement.

    • “Both sides do it”

      • Unemployed_Northeastern

        [Insert straw about Dixiecrats / Woodrow Wilson / other random Democrats who have been dead for generations]

        • CP

          Did you know Abraham Lincoln was a Republican?

          • Mellano

            Actually, he was a National Unionist. So the idea that the GOP is the party of emancipation is just another liberal lie.

            • CP

              I sit corrected!

              I tend to think the GOP went downhill quickly after Lincoln, anyway.

          • And I just got into an argument about the Civil war being about slavery.

        • ExpatJK

          Robert Byrd!

    • Michael

      But it’s important to keep in mind that these people have legitimate economic grievances thanks to trade deals and frustration with the global elite. Plus no way they can be racist they voted for Obama. [i don’t know how to do the sarcasm tag]

  • apogean
    • Hogan

      It’s like the square root of a million. No one will ever know.

      • econoclast

        I once quoted this to someone, and they seriously explained that it was 1,000, like I wouldn’t know. It was so great.

        • Daniel

          The beauty is that it works in any number base!

          • Snarki, child of Loki

            “The beauty is that it works in any number base!”

            I prefer to work in base e. How does that work again?

            • Daniel

              Should work, no? e = “10”, square root halves the number of trailing zeroes? But I’m not familiar with fractional base systems.

              • apogean

                100 in base e is 1*e^2 + 0*e^1 + 0*e^0 or e^2. The square root of this in decimal would be sqrt(e^2) = e, or 10 in base e notation (1*e^1 + 0*e^0). This generalizes to even powers of the base because 1 with n trailing zeroes equates to the base taken to the power of the number of trailing zeroes.

                In general, fractional bases are fairly trivial. They seem like they should be more interesting than they are.

                • Hogan

                  . . . My cat’s breath smells like cat food.

                • rudolf schnaubelt

                  Thank you Ralph

                • YNWA40515

                  I bent my Wookiee!

                • Daniel

                  Vindication! Ha!

                • weirdnoise

                  In general, fractional bases are fairly trivial. They seem like they should be more interesting than they are.

                  Same with negative bases: 1122₋₃ = -22₁₀.

        • postmodulator

          That happened to me here.. I forget the commenter’s name; he’s since made it clear in other comments that he’s a fundamentally good guy, who often has good insights, who absolutely does not understand that sarcasm is a thing.

          • Hogan

            And doesn’t watch The Simpsons. But we’re a big tent.

        • Wm Kiernan

          Could be minus one thousand. We’ll never know!

          • econoclast

            Your commitment to pedantry makes you a hero for these times.

            • Daniel

              A born computer programmer.

      • CS Clark
        • Sentient AI From The Future

          I’m pretty sure this series is the only legitimate justification we have for the television.

  • Dr. Ronnie James, DO

    What I like about Trump is he’s no bullshit, just tells it like it is.

  • AMK

    “Neo-Nazis hate Muslims though, who are after all the REAL threat”–what GOP Jews say when they realize that saying “Trump will cut taxes and our money/Bibi will protect us” out loud does not go over quite as well.

    • DAS

      Also GOP Jews will deny the problem and change the subject: “the so-called alt-right is only a small group of people but the hard left is increasingly influential in the Democratic party”.

      • Has the old “the so-called extreme right actually represents the people of the common clay, and we’re only guests and lucky to be allowed to stay, including you obviously misguided hard-lefty person who hasn’t learned to face reality” really so thoroughly fallen by the wayside?

        • Hogan

          Progress of a kind, I guess.

      • Warren Terra

        Remember, “GOP Jews” are mostly people who’ve allied themselves with apocalyptic Christians who devoutly wish to see them wiped out, because step one in those Christians’ plans is a maximalist, heavily armed Israel, suitable for the coming Armageddon.

        It’s not surprising they’d ally with yet other virulent antisemites in pursuit of short-term gains and in the belief the longer-term horrific costs will never materialize.

      • Hogan

        Anyway it’s all because of the BLM and the antifa and the New Black Panthers and have I mentioned the Chicago Dyke March?

        • drspittle

          Chuck Todd would blame it on Democrats not reaching out to the white working guy sporting a swastika armband because Hillary and identity politics are divisive. And Obama. Did I miss anything here?

          • JSC2397

            Yes: Chuck Todd reassuring the audience that it’s not just HIS opinion, by having several prominent Republicans on to agree with him….

  • Hypersphericalcow

    I’ve said this in previous threads, but why the eff did Ann and Glenn choose this hill to die on? There is no possible way that they will come out of this looking better.

    Oh, wait, I’ve got it. They will look better to Trump’s 27% base. I personally would not grab such an anchor, but I will happily encourage them to do so.

    • they hate the left more than anything. therefore, they need this to be about the left. “the left is overreacting” is how they’ve chosen to frame it.

      • Hypersphericalcow

        Yeah, that’s probably the reason. Although “overreacting to a white sumpremacist driving his car into a crowd of people” is something that can only be justified by lawyers that are half-drunk on box wine.

        • “a white sumpremacist driving his car into a crowd of people”

          right. they’re still resisting that because it’s impossible to defend. so they keep pushing these dumb-ass alternatives – hoping at least some people will believe them.

          and by the comments i see around, a lot of wingnuts are happy to push these things. whatever it takes to keep from ceding anything to the left.

        • Silly, the lawyer doesn't do the justifying, the judge does that. The lawyer throws every argument she can find into the pot to see what sticks. (The bloggers, I guess, generate multitudinous things that may or may not be arguments, for the lawyers to choose from, and I guess that's Althouse's role.)

          • Hypersphericalcow
            • Well, those are the rules for trying complete strangers in the court of public opinion. The rules for telling someone, sitting across the table from you, whether or not they have a case, are quite different.

          • Hogan

            Usually the lawyer is paid for that. How . . . altruistic of Althouse to just give it away.

            • DocAmazing

              Hey, why pay for the soil when you get the blood for free?

          • Snarki, child of Loki

            “The lawyer throws every argument she can find into the pot to see what sticks.”

            I thought that only Chinese lawyers could make good pot-stickers.

    • Bizarro Mike

      The simplest explanation is that the rioters represent what Col Mustard and Dr Boxwine, Esq actually believe.

    • david spikes

      It’s that old conservative con-unless you can absolutely prove that 100% of the people at that rally were in fact racists then claiming they are racists just exposes your intolerance-and of course reverse racism. And what about economic anxiety?

      • Hogan

        it’s just Some Guy With A Sign 200-300 Guys With The Same Signs. Let’s not trip over conclusions just because they’re planted right in front of us.

        • Technocrat

          “How do you know that’s *his* Nazi flag? Maybe someone asked him to hold it for a second!”

    • The shark has to keep swimming or it will die.

    • Barry_D

      “I’ve said this in previous threads, but why the eff did Ann and Glenn choose this hill to die on?”

      As time goes on and outrages pile up, the case for ‘common enemies’ pales before the case for ‘they are nazis/Klan’.

      ” There is no possible way that they will come out of this looking better.”

      To decent people, no. To their base, yes.

    • farin

      Wait, they died?! I guess the weekend wasn’t a total disaster after all.

    • Technocrat

      From what I understand, Althouse simply did Nazi anything wrong with that rally.

  • CS Clark

    I believe their thinking goes along these lines: If a bunch of Nazis held a march I would be against it, because I am a good, freedom-loving paying-attention person. But I am not against this. Therefore these aren’t Nazis.

    • Bizarro Mike

      Ah, the old “No True Scotsman on Acid” argument.

    • Nazis were foreign enemies.
      These folks are defending Southern Heritage.
      Therefore these folks can’t be Nazis.

  • Nazi Punks should do the thing that Jello Biafra so eloquently urged them to do.

  • Scott Lemieux

    UPDATE: “The ‘Blood and Soil’ chants were clearly about the Red Cross and improved gardening practices. CHECKMATE LIBS!” [puts checker in mouth, starts chewing, tries to wash it down with a carafe of Gallo Hearty Burgandy]

    • Hogan

      It looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, but I’m convinced it’s a swan that was raised by ducks. Prove me wrong.

      • Lurking Canadian

        I will only modify slightly. It looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck and loudly proclaims I AM A DUCK to anybody who will listen, but it’s probably really a swan.

        • farin

          Ducks are notorious liars, after all.

  • petesh

    Huckabee père is suggesting that if Trump went down and shot Fields between the eyes someone would complain he used the wrong caliber bullet.

    I understand there are lawyers around here. Would anyone care to give a nuanced and appropriate response? No? OK, I will: Go away you noxious twerp.

    • The Great God Pan

      We would complain that he used a Nerf gun.

    • randykhan

      Well, first, I would faint, because I’ve never thought that Trump was capable of doing his own dirty work.

    • gyrfalcon

      I checked Google Maps. Charlottesville does not have a Fifth Avenue.

    • CP

      Huckabee père is suggesting that if Trump went down and shot Fields
      between the eyes someone would complain he used the wrong caliber

      Well, we’ll never know for sure unless he tries.

  • david spikes

    It isn’t that Althouse is a racist RWNJ. It’s just that she feels compelled to defend anyone who is accused of being a racist RWNJ.

    • Sharon1W

      Ann found support and more importantly, validation in the RWNJ infested comment section of her blog and she is never going to back away from it.

      • brad

        And she has a chair and box of wine waiting for GG.

      • That’s a bingo.

      • Heaventree

        Ha, exactly. Althouse has *10’s* of faithful commenters, and they must be served.

    • Barry_D

      “It isn’t that Althouse is a racist RWNJ. ”

      There are 10,000 pieces of evidence in favor of that, and 0 against it.

      Same for Glenn.

  • Indeed. And you know antisemitism and other forms of bigotry in Europe didn’t start with Hitler and, you know, many sides at fault in WWII…It was terrible. What the world needs is order.

    • CP

      You know, that’s not entirely wrong. There were many sides at fault in WWII; one of them was the fascist side, the others were the various sides who could have stopped them in their tracks multiple times if they’d gotten their shit together instead of waiting until it was almost too late. (Americans weren’t the only ones who “did the right thing – after they bloody well tried everything else!”)

      Draw analogies as you will with the staggering number of people – phony NeverTrump conservatives, both-sides-do-it professional centrists, purity pony leftists, generically apathetic voters, pick your target – who could’ve stopped Trump, but refused to sully their hands with an imperfect vote.

  • randykhan

    Well, the six-sided star has a long and varied history, and has been associated with many cultures, much like the swastika, which after all originated in Hindu symbology, so we can’t be sure that the graphic is intended to suggest anything about what people in these groups want to do to Jews.

    Oh, there’s text below it? Gee, are you sure that’s really from the same poster? It could have been photoshopped. And how do we know the poster is real in the first place and not made up to embarrass the fine white Christian people who came to this peaceful rally to support an historic monument?

    How’d I do?

    • Hogan

      Please report to Madison for your tenured position teaching constitutional law. Congratulations.

    • brad

      TJ would like to remind you that even though it's not the default setting or a common choice some graphics programs do feature six pointed stars in them and it's not fair to assume this is antisemitic. He'd also like to say that criticizing Stephen Smith is racist.

      • Zagarna_84

        I’m still trying to figure out this TJ guy’s trolling schtick. Is he playing some sort of time-transported Marcus Garvey disciple?

        • brad

          It’s a tough thing. If any of his stories are to be believed then he has genuinely faced some horrible racism in his life, and I don’t think anyone here would want to be dismissive of that. But he also increasingly resorted to just calling any disagreement with him here genteel white racism, basically, even when we’re challenging him about, say, whether physical abuse is an acceptable component of parenting. And, as we’ve seen, he won’t talk about being caught using a different name. I’d say the simplest explanation is the guy has some problems, and is best left to sort them out for himself.

    • drspittle

      You might want to insert “false flag” in there somewhere.

  • Moonman von Superdog

    Oh how I love this video of today’s Nazi press conference
    and the smallish looking woman who takes that fucker down (around 0:55)

    • Chet Murthy

      I know it’s a bad thing to watch the first iota of his comeuppance with glee, but …. boy it feels good. Yeah, I’ll go confess now and do penance.

    • Cheap Wino

      That guy was genuinely afraid. Good. Piece of shit deserves it.

    • Such a sad, scared little man.

    • Hondo

      This shit is getting serious. People just don’t seem to like Nazis. Who could have known?

  • catbirdman

    Ugh, and that earnest-looking, earnest-sounding Frank Luntz on my BBC Newshour today claiming repeatedly that “one-third of all Americans will denounce Trump, no matter what he says, and one-third will support him, no matter what he says.” Luntz knew the BBC would take him at his word, because he’s the American expert, after all. In reality, Trump could say an infinite number of things that anyone here would whole-heartedly support him on, but for whatever reason he never does! Which apparently makes us JUST AS IRRATIONAL as that other third of the population. And he’s just so obviously earnest that this makes perfect sense to everyone outside of the irrational third. On the positive side, it’s now late enough in California to start drinking!

    • LeeEsq

      Luntz is an evil political genius.

    • Cheap Wino

      Yep. That little nugget of bullshit always leaves out that the people in question NEVER say anything the left would actually support. It’s basically strawmanning.

    • billcinsd

      But if Trump said things you would support (not that he would), his current supporters would throw a hissy fit, so Luntz if his 1/3 number was correct would still be correct

      • catbirdman

        Yes, but you’re forgetting Luntz’s phony claim that the 1/3 on the right side of the spectrum would support him “no matter what.” Luntz’s phony construction of the situation is purposefully designed to make our 1/3 of the population appear irrational — after all, “It doesn’t matter what Trump says!” And a whole lot of people either believe him or let him get away with this distortion because it sounds earnest and reasonable. To our detriment.

        • Cheap Wino

          Exactly. Sort of a both sidesdoitism for people who aren’t smart enough to understand that motivations are important. Why do liberals never agree with Trump isn’t because they’re irrational, it’s that he’s irrational/racist/dumbfoundingly stupid etc. There’s no equivalence to be found if one does even the minimum of investigation. Like I said above, Luntz has set up a strawman liberal to make his claim. It is right out of the Limbaugh/Hannity playbook and doesn’t play any better because he’s somehow part of the intellectual wing of the party, as it were.

    • gyrfalcon

      Look, one-third of all Americans denounce Barack Obama when he says that drinking antifreeze is a bad idea, and one-third of all Americans support Donald Trump when he says that anyone who voted for Hillary Clinton should be stripped of their citizenship and extradited to Mexico. Both sides!

      (please ignore the small fact that the denouncers and the supporters in this case are the sam damn people, kthxbye)

  • LeeEsq

    The rise of the Alt-Right might be explained by Forbidden Fruit theory more than anything else. The anti-racist movement wasn’t as successful as it wanted but it at least created a narrative that you couldn’t say anything openly racist in society. This is why elaborate dog whistles were needed. Everybody had to at least pretend to be an anti-racist. Only the most loathsome and flagrant of racists would use openly racist rhetoric of the American or Continental variety.

    This might have had the unfortunate side-effect of making Nazi and Fascist ideologies anti-establishment. We know that a certain amount of young people are going to always go to rebel against the perceived dominate strands of thought in society even if the dominate strands happen to be correct and true like racism and sexism are bad. The Internet makes it easier for out there groups to acquire a professional sheen of respectability. This guaranteed that more than a few rebellious young people would end up attracted to Neo-Nazi thought as revolutionary rather than evil because it was Forbidden Fruit. Even if they had racist parents, which many of them probably did, they can deduce from popular culture that racism and sexism are Forbidden Fruit by the dominate Western cultural narrative and that provides an attraction.

    • DocAmazing

      Meanwhile, the respectable parents of these wowdy webels just followed the Lee Atwater formula and got more and more abstract. In practice, whether the cop that shot an unarmed Black kid is let off by a Ten Commandments-quotin’, League of the South-joinin’ judge or a genteel jurist with a Ludwig van Mises lapel pin, that’s still another killer cop running loose. Nazis need to be opposed, to be sure, but they’re just one symptom of the underlying illness.

    • Sentient AI From The Future

      At the risk of repeating myself, and with apologies to Nameless 1996 Internet Triumphalist:

      The internet interprets social disapprobation as damage and routes around it.

      • LeeEsq

        I think you mean social disapproval. Social disapprobation sounds like fancy academic speak for an unequal distribution of social status under hierarchical feudal and capitalist systems.

        • Sentient AI From The Future

          strong disapproval, typically on moral grounds

          Is what google has it as. Merriam-webster has it as disapproval, but most of the other sources I looked at have at least a strong-type modifier. I dont have an OED handy. [shrug_emoji.gif]

    • Technocrat

      That’s pretty insightful. It would help explain why hard-counterculture sites like 4chan are so integral to their faction. If racism and sexism are frowned on by polite society, there’s LOTS OF LULZ to be had poking that particular bear.

      • Michael

        I’ve always assumed that the rise of the alt-right coninciding with GamerGate falling apart was not coincidence – ie that gg was a training ground for radical ideology.

      • LeeEsq

        As others observed the genius of the Alt-Right was that they combined a Counter-Culture aesthetic with a Far Right ideology. Since most people conflate the Far Right with stodgy people, this confuses a lot of the Alt-Right’s enemies.

    • bw

      While I get the appeal of this kind of hypothesis, I think that this approach is, at best, truthy and empirically lazy.

      Shortly after the election, I had a discussion with a (very bright and extremely successful) friend who is well-plugged-in to the world of young men in the tech industry. He took a view that’s a pretty close cousin to what you’ve posted here: that severely stigmatizing racism, making it something Unmentionable in the public discourse, was ultimately a strategic blunder that set lots of young men on a “path to radicalization.” This kind of a claim requires actual evidence before we take it seriously – and where’s the evidence? I can point to tons of counterexamples where a lack of stigmatization seems to only encourage these things to harden into social norms (one example I pointed to was normalized pederasty in ancient Greece – definitely not stigmatized, and thus allowed to flourish).

      At the very least, I suspect that there are lots of psychological nuances that mediate who is most likely to gravitate to all varieties of “forbidden fruit” – and those people are generally not the kinds of psychological authoritarians who populate the Trump/white nationalist/MRA subculture, even if they’re doing it under a posture of alt-right irony/anti-establishment redpilling/whatever bullshit they came up with this week to “explain” their hate.

  • Tim Reynolds

    This site’s discussion of political violence when your own side does it

    You all opened this box, this ‘it’s okay to be violent with people who disagree with me!!!’. You were told at the time that it would backfire. You were told at the time that it would legitimize violence, and put it in the hands of people who are simply much, much better at it than you can ever hope to be. But did you listen? No, with the exception of the primary poster, who rightly called out the bloog-thirsty whackjobs on the rest of the mainpage, as well as the psychotic commenters here — you all loved the idea of committing political violence against your opponents.

    Don’t pretend that your actions played no part in this. You don’t get to wash your hands of your part in the normalization of political violence. You called all Republicans nazis, then said it was okay to punch nazis…So we had the Berkeley riots, we had Republican congressmen being shot at.

    And now–only now–when one of you ends up being the victim, is political violence unacceptable.

    After you did everything possible to make it acceptable again.

    • wjts

      Yeah, you’re right – Nazis are only violent when they’re provoked. Shame on us.

      • sibusisodan

        “It says here that Nazis generally avoid human contact, and prefer out of the way places. They also…have poison glands in their teeth, and ingest food whole? Did I turn over two pages?”

    • Bot says what?

      • Anna in PDX

        Also the post actually decried punching nazis…

        • Technocrat

          I have no idea why he linked that particular post. He even read it, presumably, yet thinks it bolsters his point.

          • stepped pyramids

            He appears to have edited the comment (without note) to account for this. What a dweeb. I’m sure the fact that the post he linked to discredits his argument is actually CENTRAL TO HIS POINT.

    • sibusisodan

      > You called all Republicans nazis, then said it was okay to punch nazis..

      That’s doing ‘everything possible’ to make violence acceptable again? We don’t try very hard, do we?

      • wjts

        Well, you have to remember we’re a bunch of lazy moochers who expect the government to do everything for us.

        • CS Clark

          Single-puncher now!

          • farin

            That’s a vile canard! I want multiple punchers, ideally for every nazi.

            • Sentient AI From The Future

              There were in fact multiple punchers. One was on the grassy knoll.

    • brad

      As I saw someone wiser than I say on twitter, stop pretending your choice to embrace Nazi regalia is about whether liberal women were nice to you. You don’t get to threaten people by saying be considerate to me or I’ll decide you deserve genocide, that’s not how life works. You choosing to “troll” by marching in Nazi uniform is on you. No one else.

      • Abigail Nussbaum

        I know I shouldn’t be surprised by this, but “it’s your fault that I became a Nazi” is taking “the right has no agency” to levels that I really didn’t anticipate.

    • DocAmazing

      Remember Tim’s rule: white men, being so preyed-upon by non-white non-men, are just giving vent to their legitimate frustrations. Hitting back is violence and repression of their freedom of speech.

    • Shantanu Saha

      Oh look, a troll showed up!

    • Note to self:
      One cold cock equals one top-speed car-into crowd.

      Edit: Oh and the “disgruntled white male” politcal assasination was apparantly invented by liberals this past June.

      • gyrfalcon

        You know what this means? Punching Richard Spencer in his self-conceited face is such a powerful act it can reverberate back through time!

        Someone get me in touch with the MIT Physics lab. I’ve got an idea to clue FDR in to single-payer through a carefully-calibrated series of bitchslaps and need some expert advice on proper force and timing.

        • The rules are out the window following that punch.

          What if us being mean to Donald Trump–through backwards causality– caused him to resent Obama and start the birther movement? Thus meaning liberals are responsible for Trump…

          I need to go watch 12 Monkeys again and prepare myself for this strange new world.

        • Sentient AI From The Future

          I find your ideas intriguing and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

    • Hogan

      When I didn’t object to people punching Richard Spencer, I probably did give the impression that it’s OK to assassinate your political opponents with a car. My bad.

      • Owlbear1

        Silence = Approval.

        • sibusisodan

          Do i upvote this comment, or is _not_ upvoting it sufficient? I’m so confused.

          • Owlbear1

            I AM LOVED EVERYWHERE!~!!

        • Oh shit, I never specified after last Bastille day that it wasn’t okay for white people to drive into crowds specifically did I? I just said “people”? My bad.

      • DocAmazing

        First, they punched Nazis, and I said nothing, for I was not a Nazi.
        Then, they punched Klansmen, and I said nothing, for i was not a Klansman.
        Then they punched MRAs, and I said “Your arm must be getting tired; y’want me to take over?”

    • Cheap Wino

      Ahh, yes. The violence free racist Nazi right is soooo oppressed by the hippies.

      P.S. You’re a dumbass. Please shut up until you have something valuable to say.

    • Owlbear1

      it’s okay to be violent with people who INSIST I AM NOTHING BUT PROPERTYdisagree with me!!!

      It isn’t a fucking argument over tax rates, Shit-stain.

    • sharculese

      My actions played no part in this because I never advocated violence, never supported anyone who did, and always condemned those who chose to.

      I apologize for being a better person than you are.

      PS: You have serious problems.

    • stepped pyramids

      If this is the standard (offending members of the opposite sex), then every feminist should be fired for everything, everywhere. After all, what did this guy do, but talk about women the way feminists have talked about men for years? And you love feminism.
      But no, you think you people should be free to spew nonsense about ‘fragile masculinity’, ‘toxic masculinity’, ‘mansplaining’ and ‘Kill all men’ wherever you want, but men aren’t allowed to say a single word in response or you all form a lynch mob’

      Given that the alternative to ‘meritocracy’ is a laughable affirmative action system that primarily benefits Will Smith’s kids and women (who make up 60+% of college enrolled students at every major college), what choice do we have?
      Your party is about making sure that women and black people count among our feudal lords. It is not about giving normal people opportunities.

      GTFO bigot

      • wjts

        Being able to see a user’s previous comments by clicking on their name is a useful little tool, isn’t it?

        • useful little tool

          Well, you’re half-right about ol’ Timmy here.

      • wjts

        But no, you think you people should be free to spew nonsense about ‘fragile masculinity’, ‘toxic masculinity’…

        Tim’s masculinity is both fragile and toxic, like an armadillo pup with leprosy.

      • Cheap Wino

        Excellent find. I’d like to update my calling it a dumbass to worthless piece of shit and completely rescind my invitation for it to comment later under any circumstances.

      • david spikes

        Did he pause to think-I know, LOL-that he just came out and said that only white males are normal people?
        Troll comes out from under the bridge.

    • Dr. Waffle
      • Technocrat

        Shorter wingnut: “If I can’t judge someone based on their gender, you can’t judge someone based on their actions!”

        They see this as a consistent position, somehow.

        • MLK: “Judge people not by the color of their skin, but by the con–”

          RWNJ (interrputing): “Hear that Libs? MLK himself said you can’t judge us since we’re white, Hypocrites!”

    • Hondo

      So, Tim, buddy, dickhead,
      I got an idea for a parody using that State Farm commercial from couple years back, it’s just me and my wife and we need some asshole to play Jake. Here’s the script, remember, you are Jake from Vanguard America.
      Man in PJs standing in darkened living room on the phone.
      Man: “Yeah, all the Jews took Sept. 11th off ’cause they knew? Fuck!
      Wife comes downstairs, agitated, “Who is that?”
      Man, hesitantly: “It’s Jake from Vanguard America.”
      Wife, grabs phone angrily, “What are you wearing Jake from Vanguard America?”
      Cut to Jake, in his mother’s basement playing a first-person shooter video, surrounded by empty chip bags and Pappa Johns boxes, “Khakis.”
      Cut back to wife, “She sounds hideous!”
      Man: “Well, she’s a Nazi.”
      The End.

    • Technocrat

      And now–only now–when one of you ends up being the victim, is political violence unacceptable

      Reread the post you linked?

    • stepped pyramids

      bloog-thirsty whackjobs

      Bluuuuuh, I’m Count Dragulur, and I vant to sug your bloooog

    • Just to answer this argument with more seriousness and charity than it deserves:

      Of course the post linked to was against punching Richard Spencer. Still, some commenters begged to differ. Others were ambivilent. Did these people make Nazis and Klansmen violent?

      Well, no. Nazis and Klansmen have a well documented history of violence, to put it mildly. And while Richard Spencer claims to identify as neither except in a playful, ironic sense (the man’s wit is something to bold), he advocates ethnic cleansing which is bound to be…violent, and celebrates violent conquest and domination as the basis for his claim that this land rightfully belongs to the “White race”.

      So a lot of folks are skeptical of the claim that Spencer et al just want to peacefully coexist with the rest of us. And if they don’t, any accusations of hypocrisy on the question of “political violence” are themselves hypocritical.

    • BiloSagdiyev


  • DN Nation

    I was camping in the Smoky Mountains without Internet connection the last few days. It was better there.

    I hope every single one of these Nazi scum loses their jobs and ends up starving and destitute for the rest of their miserable lives. That includes Heh Indoodily Ding Dong Diddly Reynolds.

  • brad

    One other thing; if cleek’s law has mutated to the point that the right will simply embrace the worst insult we can think of for them to spite us…. maybe, can there be some thought about calling them all “shitface” now?

    • Owlbear1


    • Uncle_Ebeneezer

      Why are you being so DIVISIVE?!

    • Drew

      Stupid auto-defenestrators!

  • petesh
    • Gwai Lo, MD

      I love how you posted this in all its glory, no context needed. I feel like Moses receiving the Ten Commandments.

  • JMV Pyro

    Anyone want to take a guess how Glenn Greenwald has been responding to the days events?

    If you guessed “attacking people criticizing the Virginia ACLU as against free speech”, you get a cookie.

    • Technocrat

      Honestly, I think he’s such a reflexive contrarian that he’s constitutionally incapable of adopting a majority position. If we were vociferously defending the ACLU, he’d be accusing us of ignoring Nazis.

      • Zagarna_84

        Whether you think it accidental or genuine, in this case he’s correct.

    • The Nazis have faced this kind of oppression before!

      Prior to 1939 there were parks in Poland where they weren’t allowed to ralley. That’s why we should celebrate Sept 1 as 1st amendment day, for freedom.

  • royko

    All of this Nazi talk is just a Deep State distraction from the true villains of Charlottesville: Hillary Clinton and her neoliberal minions like Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

    • stepped pyramids

      I for real saw someone on Twitter snarking that the Democratic Party was going to declare itself neutral on the matter of white supremacism.

      because lol they’re such sellouts amirite

      • Perkniticky

        Must have been an anti Bernieite. The Bernie wing thinks we should bend over backward to win back the white working class – presumably that would be easier if Dems started dog whistling again.

  • e.a. foster

    Mr. and Mrs. Kushner may be interested but I suspect Mr. Trump won’t care. I expect he does not see his daughter as a Jew nor his son-in-law. Because he is rich Mr. Trump thinks he and his can avoid all the unpleasantness of racism. However, it might be of interest to Mr. Trump even a Rothschild went to the concentration camp and died there.
    The people who marched in the “whatever you want to call it” rally aren’t that keen on people who aren’t WASPs, To them even if you’re white it doesn’t matter, religion and place of origin is the most important. I remember it all very well, being a white Protestant wasn’t enough.

    • Cheap Wino

      I doubt Mr. Trump that idiot has the interest to even consider the situation from any point of view. I’m sure it bores him, let’s get back to watching vapid entertainment like Faux and Friends and all.

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