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RIP Richard Hatch

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Screenshot 2017-02-09 12.34.40

In honor of the passing of Richard Hatch, some blasts from a past in which Battlestar Galactica was a relevant blogospheric discussion topic:

 

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  • I don’t get any of these jokes, because the universal revulsion at the last season of the show has deterred me from watching any of it & risking that I might start to care.

    • wjts

      I saw most of the first two seasons. They were OK.

    • EK

      I thought it might be easier to stomach upon rewatch, but no, it just retroactively interfered with my immense enjoyment of the earlier seasons (again).

    • CP

      The media episode was the one that caused me to drop out. The one where, not long after the martial law thing and the shooting that took resulted from it, a stock Hostile Liberally Biased Shrew of a reporter boards the Galactica to do a report on the way the soldiers live, and is then shamed into realizing just what wonderful and selfless people the soldiers are… leaving the whole report about the shooting that was the original reason for the whole thing by the wayside.

      • semiotix

        I can see it being read that way, but I don’t think it was intended to come off in that Tom Clancy-ish “righteous pro-military government teaches treacherous liberal media a thing or two about patriotism” kind of way.

        My overall impression of “the media” from BSG–and they appeared quite a bit–was that it was a sendup of the absolute ineptitude and manipulability of of circa-2005 cable news talking heads. (And if anything deserved to be sent up, it’s that.)

        I found it entirely plausible that if Bush-era CNN had been reduced to three random anchors and a microphone one of them happened to be carrying, that they’d be replicating their banter-filled content-free crapfests within a week. And if I were the military strongman pseudo-democracy that Adama basically ran (y’know, for good reasons, but still) I’d be only too happy to let them do it.

        • sigaba

          I would think that it is some consolation that the reporter turned out to be a Cylon, and that’s not a spoiler.

          Considering the entire human race had been reduced to 50k people and the entire series is basically an existential dance of death, that fact that the fleet actually had reporters and everything didn’t just flow through rumor was a major accomplishment, though gossip played it role too.

        • CP

          Possibly. I didn’t get any sense that it was supposed to be critical, though. From what I recall, the entire episode came off as if it was meant completely earnestly. YMMV.

  • tsam

    Man I loved that show when I was a kid.

    • njorl

      When I was a kid, he was Apollo, not Tom Zarek.

      • tsam

        Was Hatch in both of these? I never watched the new (NO FUCKING WAY, MAN) series.

        • Hatch was Zarek in the new series, hence njorl’s comment.

          • tsam

            I think I’m catching up now. I’ll just eh…go take a nap now.

    • El Guapo

      Me too. I still hum the theme song in the shower or to annoy my spouse/kids. So majestic.

    • wengler

      *Looks at the calendar*

      What year is it?!

      • Murc

        There’s more time between the series premiere of BSG and now than there is between the start of the Clinton Administration and the premiere of BSG.

  • Owlbear1

    I would have liked to have seen him as Kharn the Undying.

  • Francis

    I seem to recall a scene in the last (penultimate?) episode where people were wheeling their luggage across open ground, heading nowhere in particular. And they were fine with that.

    These are the same people who experienced the failed colony on whatever that other planet was. And this time they were willing to destroy their power sources?!! One night on that planet without electricity, heat, food, shelter, fresh water, waste disposal etc and people would be screaming to get their ships back.

    • njorl

      Humans have demonstrated a tremendous willingness to sacrifice the material comforts of their homes in order to massively exploit an indigenous population.

      • John F

        not to that extent

    • Gareth

      These are the same people who experienced the failed colony on whatever that other planet was. And this time they were willing to destroy their power sources?!!

      Yeah. These are the same people who literally can’t do an engine upgrade without it starting a civil war, and they all agree to this?

  • Dilan Esper

    There were those who believe that life here began out there….

    Dark secret of the whole show was it was a big time Mormon allegory and almost nobody knew it.

    • sigaba

      The original series was a little more obvious about it.

      I really can’t chalk up the subtextual arc plot of Battlestar Galactica as a big culture win for the Mormons. The series owes a lot more to Roger Corman and Irwin Allen than to Joesph Smith.

      • semiotix

        If you REALLY want space Mormons, I highly recommend The Expanse.

        It’s set a couple hundred years in the future, and has polite self-effacing Mormons cheerfully going about the business of conquering the universe in the background of more interesting secular drama, just like usual.

        • I highly second the recommendation for The Expanse. It’s one of the best shows on television right now.

        • rhino

          The mormons turn up, but they don’t seem all that critical to the plot….

          • semiotix

            No, they’re not important to the plot. But you have to love that they took a gritty hard-SF noir and threw in the occasional dorky but earnest dude in a white shirt and black tie who just wants to rap with you about Jesus. That detail did as much to make me feel like I was looking at Earth’s future as a million dollars in CGI.

    • semiotix

      For the pre-internet version, yes. For the reboot, a lot of reviewers were practically watching each new episode with The Book of Mormon in hand looking for the references.

      I know the show got a lot of flack (from believers and atheists alike) for its clumsy treatment of “God” but I can’t say I ever felt like it was pro-Mormon propaganda, since the only unambiguous monotheists were the bad guys.

      • Redwood Rhiadra

        Well, that’s possibly because, as nearly as I can tell, Mormons are not monotheists. Certainly not unambiguously so.

  • Am I the only one who saw the headline and assumed it was the ugly, naked dude from back when people watched Survivor?

    • AcademicLurker

      Nope. That was my first thought as well.

  • TroubleMaker13

    No love for Streets of San Francisco?

    • Dennis Orphen

      I was waiting for someone to bring up that show. I binged watched the entire first season a few weeks ago. It was entertaining and some of the episodes had socially conscious messages. The guest stars are interesting too.

      It was shot entirely on location in SF, and you can clearly see a Nancy Pelosi political campaign sign in the background of one outdoor shot.

  • Murc

    Battlestar Galactica was a bit of an odd bird, wasn’t it?

    It was one of those series where the ending was so bad it both retroactively made the rest of the series so much worse, and it effectively re-killed the franchise.

    BSG was a legitimate cultural phenomenon for years (and I think maybe the last time the Sci-Fi network, which I refuse to call by that other name, was culturally relevant at all) and then it just… stopped. And people stopped caring. Like, at all.

    Kinda like Lost, come to think of it.

    • sigaba

      I don’t understand why people don’t like the ending, maybe you can explain it.

      • Murc

        Three big things:

        Baltar’s huge prophecy-driven destiny was to carry a kid thirty feet.

        It explained few to none of the big mysteries people had got invested in.

        The big one… the entire remaining Colonial population decided en masse to commit both cultural and, probably, literal suicide. Because reasons! It didn’t matter that we’d spent literally the entire run of the show rooting so hard for those people to survive and prosper, they just all walked off and died. A few of them maybe lived long enough to fuck some of the local populace, who they happened to be genetically compatible with.

        That was rage-inducing.

        • sigaba

          Baltar’s huge prophecy-driven destiny was to carry a kid thirty feet.

          I think people expected too much from the Opera House. The important thing is that all the different people shared the vision, and that it did actually play out, not that it lead to some shattering climax that fanboys were going to tweak endlessly anyways.

          It explained few to none of the big mysteries people had got invested in.

          No explanations would have been satisfactory. I don’t see how, for instance, Starbuck being a cylon would have been any more edifying than what they actually did. Are you sure you wanted explanations, or you wanted a better emotional resolution?

          Some people wanted the Greys to be real, and some people wanted Mulder and Scully to kiss. Neither actually gives you what you really want, though: more episodes.

          The big one… the entire remaining Colonial population decided en masse to commit both cultural and, probably, literal suicide.

          The organizing principle of the flight from the Colonies and the Cylon War was: Adama will bring us to Earth. Big speech, first episode, everyone is at each others throats and then Adama says, “I know where Earth is.” The series was not, Adama will destroy the Cylons, or Adama will rebuild the fleet and restore Caprica. They tried all of those, and they failed. Adama brought them to Earth. Everything after that is denouement.

          (FD. I watched the whole series for the first time on a binge a few years ago, so I wasn’t yanked at the end of a chain season to season.)

          • Murc

            No explanations would have been satisfactory.

            Then there shouldn’t have been mysteries.

            I don’t see how, for instance, Starbuck being a cylon would have been any more edifying than what they actually did.

            We don’t know what they actually did, because we don’t have the faintest clue what was up with Starbuck!

            Are you sure you wanted explanations, or you wanted a better emotional resolution?

            I’d settle for either. Stuff doesn’t need to be explained down to the nth degree, but it also can’t just hang around making no sense, and “God did it” isn’t fuckin’ enough.

            Neither actually gives you what you really want, though: more episodes.

            At some point I stop wanting more episodes and start wanting resolution.

            The organizing principle of the flight from the Colonies and the Cylon War was: Adama will bring us to Earth.

            Yeah, but there’s baggage associated with that statement. The implication is “Adama will bring us to Earth, where we will be safe and can rebuild.”

            Theoretically Adama could have fulfilled his promise by bringing everyone to Earth and then detonating the power core of every ship in the fleet, killing them all. That, technically, would have fulfilled his pledge. But it was understood that the pledge had, as the kids say, penumbras and emanations.

            • sigaba

              Then there shouldn’t have been mysteries.

              WHY DID WE NEVER SEE MARIS CRANE??!?!?!?!?

              The implication is “Adama will bring us to Earth, where we will be safe and can rebuild.”

              They were safe and they did rebuild. The alternative was: abandon the the mission of the last four years and whatever unity and shared purpose it brought, continue the search with or without the help of the Cylons, and certainly continue the search without the only warship, which is now permanently disabled.

              Of course all of these conditions were created by the buildup so we could argue they didn’t have to be this way, because writers can do whatever they want. But it’s pretty clear from Ron Moore’s perspective that this was exactly the kind of ending he’d intended, even if the specifics weren’t as clean as he wanted. Star Trek: Deep Space Nine ends on a very similar note, except there they go to the trouble of literalizing god as “energy beings.”

              Even if you didn’t like the ending it’s hard to deny that from the very beginning there was a strong supernatural component. This was always the show it was, no one ever gave you a reason to believe Head Six had a practical explanation.

              So many disappointed viewers seem to have reacted as if they had just found out their “cool” friend from Sci-Fi Club was actually really religious, and they just keep ignoring and rationalizing all of the evidence they had that pointed to the obvious.

              • Murc

                WHY DID WE NEVER SEE MARIS CRANE??!?!?!?!?

                That was never a mystery. That was simply a joke.

                They were safe and they did rebuild.

                … no. They didn’t. This is categorically untrue.

                The alternative was: abandon the the mission of the last four years and whatever unity and shared purpose it brought, continue the search with or without the help of the Cylons, and certainly continue the search without the only warship, which is now permanently disabled.

                No, it wasn’t. This, again, is categorically untrue. “Let’s land on the planet and rebuild civilization” was 100% an option.

                Star Trek: Deep Space Nine ends on a very similar note, except there they go to the trouble of literalizing god as “energy beings.”

                Yeah, and the resolution of the Sisko storyline was the worst part of the end of DS9.

                Even if you didn’t like the ending it’s hard to deny that from the very beginning there was a strong supernatural component. This was always the show it was, no one ever gave you a reason to believe Head Six had a practical explanation.

                Plenty of shows with strong supernatural components give you practical explanations for why stuff is happening and what’s causing it. Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Stranger Things.

                • sigaba

                  I don’t know, it sounds like your real problem isn’t with the ending, but with the show.

                  Do Buffy and Stranger Things really have supernatural characters, or are the ghosts just characters like everyone else?

                • Murc

                  Do Buffy and Stranger Things really have supernatural characters, or are the ghosts just characters like everyone else?

                  … I don’t understand this question. By definition a ghost or a vampire is a supernatural character.

                • sigaba

                  I would define a supernatural character as a character with essentially supernatural attributes: lack of material needs or limitations, immortal, ineffable, transcending human reason and morals. A vampire on Buffy wasn’t supernatural, vampire was just a hat.

                • gmack

                  It seems to me that Murc’s problem is ultimately not with the “supernatural” as such, but with a Deus ex Machina. Basically, the overall story that BSG was telling is that everything happens for a reason. I.e., God has written everything and will intervene to perform miracles whenever there is no other way to resolve narrative conundrums. So the trouble isn’t with the supernatural elements, but with the existence of elements that obey no rules/laws beyond the needs of the narrative (thus, I’d suggest that there is no real difficulty in understanding what Starbuck was. She was an angel, sent among the characters to serve specific narrative functions–especially getting them the coordinates to Earth– and then to disappear once that function is served).

                • John F

                  It seems to me that Murc’s problem is ultimately not with the “supernatural” as such, but with a Deus ex Machina.

                  It seems to me the problem is both.

                  I agree with him on the

                  The big one… the entire remaining Colonial population decided en masse to commit both cultural and, probably, literal suicide. Because reasons!

                  that was just jaw droppingly… stupid- there was no way, no effing way on Earth that the survivors would agree en masse to do what the show had them do at the end.

                  Starbuck being an angel/ghost/whatever didn’t bother me, the final Baltar resolution didn’t bother me, the series turning out to be 100,000+ years in the past didn’t bother me, Hera Agathon being Mitochondrial Eve didn’t bother me…

                  Let’s ditch all our technology and crash our ships into the sun?
                  Forget surviving winter, most survivors wouldn’t last a month on an undeveloped world with no grocery stores.

        • Woodrowfan

          If some of the humans/Cylons had decided to stay and start over and some left on the remaining ships (not including the broken battlestar) it would have worked better. I could accept some deciding “fuck technology” given the two Cylon wars, but I’d think a substantial portion would say “I cna’t survive as a sustenance farmer, we’d better keep looking.”

          • Murc

            I could accept some deciding “fuck technology” given the two Cylon wars, but I’d think a substantial portion would say “I cna’t survive as a sustenance farmer, we’d better keep looking.”

            Why keep looking, though? They’ve discovered a lush, amazing planet. They can easily set the neo-Luddites down on one side of it and then go settle down on the other side.

            The Colonials didn’t even become subsistence farmers. They became hunter/gatherers. They literally went all the way back down to the bottom. They lost everything; art, culture, writing, agricultural, everything. They came all that way and lived through all that shit, and then committed cultural suicide for… reasons.

            • sigaba

              I thought part of the point of the series was that the Colonial culture they had all come from was decadent and deserved to end. This manifests in the fact that most of the main characters are motivated by a death wish.

              • Murc

                I thought part of the point of the series was that the Colonial culture they had all come from was decadent and deserved to end.

                … yeah, no.

                This manifests in the fact that most of the main characters are motivated by a death wish.

                A death wish they convince forty thousand other people to join them in with no complaints?

                • Caprica does provide a pretty convincing argument in favour of Colonial culture’s decadence, for whatever that’s worth.

    • 8percentgarlic

      For me, the show is essential viewing up to somewhere in the first half of Season 3, then kind of falls apart. I felt like a decline in coherence of the story combined with the election of Obama to make the fourth season seem like it was somehow less “urgent” and necessary watching.

    • I often feel like one of the only people on the planet who didn’t hate the ending of Lost. To be fair, it’s almost incomprehensible if you don’t have at least cursory knowledge of obscure religions like Gnosticism and Zoroastrianism, but I felt like it explained everything that needed to be explained.

      I didn’t like the BSG ending, but I didn’t hate it as much as a lot of other people did, either. It didn’t retroactively ruin the rest of the show for me, at least.

      • wjts

        I didn’t hate the ending of Lost, but it was both disappointing and not actually very good.

      • gmack

        That was my response to it too. The ending sucked, but it doesn’t ruin everything else for me. If one tries to take BSG as a whole, as telling an overall narrative across all its seasons, it’s pretty much a disaster. But I don’t see why I need to treat individual episodes or seasons in those terms. Nor do I see why the fact that the writers decided to put an omniscient God in their story should prevent me from enjoying those episodes in which the presence of that figure doesn’t really matter. In other words, the writers’ decision to say “God did it” as a way of ending the show doesn’t affect my experience or interpretation of other aspects of it. Sure, it removes some of the mysteries about what was going on with “Chip-6,” but all that means is that I’m aware that the “explanation” of that character is ultimately unsatisfying. The presence and function of that character in the episodes in which she appears is still worthwhile, though.

        And a general point: In general, I think people are way, way too preoccupied with the “world-building” aspects of storytelling. It’s entirely possible to have great storytelling that occurs in worlds that are not fully thought through or internally coherent/consistent (Don Quixote, for instance, or much of Homer). By the same token, it’s entirely possible to have extremely detailed and convincing world building on behalf of stories that are horribly tedious.

      • Aexia

        A lot of time when people say Lost or BSG didn’t provide any answers, they really mean that they didn’t like the answers that were given.

      • John F

        I often feel like one of the only people on the planet who didn’t hate the ending of Lost.

        Ditto- not that I thought it was GOOD, just not as terrible as some say (Now St Elsewhere had the worst, “let’s piss on our audience” ending I’ve ever seen).

        What get’s me about Lost is how many people simply never got that the “flash sideways” in the last season… was the afterlife. To this day you still get people/critics complaining, “and they never explained what the flashes in the last season were, past? future, alternate timeline?” No, THAT the did clearly explain, maybe you stopped watching/paying attention by that point, but that was one thing the show did explain.

    • I don’t see the ending, for all its problems, as the reason that BSG hasn’t endured. The show was misconceived from day one, prioritizing a heavy-handed 9/11 and Iraq War allegory over internally consistent worldbuilding. Which caused two major problems: first, a terrorist attack, no matter how devastating, is simply not comparable to a genocidal sneak attack that leaves 99.99999% of your population dead and the remaining survivors reduced to desperate refugees. The more the show tried to pretend that the latter could lead to situations similar to the ones that emerged in the real world from the former, the less sense its storytelling made, and the more ridiculous the leaps it expected its audience to make.

      (Exhibit A is, of course, the very notion that there’s something wrong or immoral with the humans’ hatred of Cylons, or with their desire to kill them all. Per our recent conversations about Nazi-punching, if you participate in the murder of tens of billions of people, you’ve basically forfeited your right to exist, and it may actually be the duty of anyone who considers themselves a moral individual to actively pursue your death.)

      The second problem is that by tying itself so strongly to its present moment, BSG ensured that it became irrelevant as soon as the Bush era ended. The reason no one talks about it anymore is that it genuinely had nothing to say that is relevant to our lives or our current politics. And as a work of science fiction, it brought so little to the table that it’s no wonder it has no descendants – there’s more space opera on TV right now that can trace its ancestry to Firefly or Babylon 5 than BSG.

      • I agree that the Cylon problem is… strange. At the same time, I’m not really certain that a 1:1 comparison with the Nazis is possible, because some of the Cylons genuinely seemed repentant about their previous actions. The question seems to be one of whether redemption is possible after horrific actions. It’s… an extreme example, to be certain, but neo-Nazis are of course completely unrepentant for their advocacy of genocide, while the “good” Cylons genuinely did seem to wish to atone. That said, that doesn’t eliminate the problems with the allegory.

        I do agree that the show had very little relevance to the Obama era, but at the same time I also suspect that it will become more relevant again under Tangerine Torquemada.

        Anyway, yes, a highly flawed show. I still enjoy it and am glad I watched it, but I don’t disagree with your critique.

        • some of the Cylons genuinely seemed repentant about their previous actions

          And some Nazis were genuinely repentant of their actions in the Holocaust. Doesn’t mean they should get to buy a house in Israel.

          The question seems to be one of whether redemption is possible after horrific actions.

          Except it isn’t. At no point do the Cylons pursue redemption. Hell, with the exception of one episode, we never even see any of them express regret over the horrific things they did – and that episode didn’t even have any human characters in it, so there is never an instance of a Cylon apologizing to a human. (Plus, the two Cylons who come to the earth-shattering realization that killing 50 billion people was wrong then turn around and lead the charge to enslave humanity on New Caprica, so as journeys towards redemption go, it’s a mixed bag.) The attitude of the show seems to be “we need to break the cycle of violence.” Which, given the premise in which one side commits genocide on the scale of multiple planets, and the other side commits individual acts of torture and rape in response, is a genuinely perverse lesson to take away.

          (To put it another way, the difference between the Cylons and the Nazis is that the Cylons are a million times worse and aren’t really punished.)

          • And some Nazis were genuinely repentant of their actions in the Holocaust. Doesn’t mean they should get to buy a house in Israel.

            I’m not saying they should. At the same time, it wouldn’t have been justified to try to kill off every German as a response to the Holocaust, either. I still don’t even consider the firebombing of Dresden justified.

            The attitude of the show seems to be “we need to break the cycle of violence.” Which, given the premise in which one side commits genocide on the scale of multiple planets, and the other side commits individual acts of torture and rape in response, is a genuine perverse lesson to take away.

            Well, it’s been awhile since I watched the show, but my recollection is that some humans were advocating genocide against the Cylons as a response to their attempted genocide against humanity, so I’m not really sure it’s that simple. Plus, as Murc points out, humanity’s treatment of the Cylons prior to the events of the show hadn’t exactly been exemplary. This doesn’t mean that the Cylons’ attempted genocide of humanity was justified, of course, but it wasn’t exactly unprovoked. In other words, the Holocaust analogy doesn’t exactly fit, because the Jews had done nothing to harm the Germans, while humanity’s treatment of the Cylons had… not exactly been exemplary.

            Also, my recollection is that the Final Five in particular were both not involved in the genocide and (with the exception of Tory) genuinely seemed to want to end the cycle of violence as well.

            • the Cylons’ attempted successful genocide of humanity

              FTFY. The fact that forty thousand people out of fifty billion don’t die is, quite literally, a rounding error. The Cylons did destroy humanity, and they’re never called to account for that.

              As for the idea that the humans could have done anything to fairly invite genocide upon themselves… sorry, I don’t even know how to respond to that. This is not one of those things where Everyone is to Blame. You choose to commit genocide, that’s not on anyone except for you.

              • I’m fairly certain that, as Murc points out, enslaving an entire race and then attempting genocide against them when they revolt could be considered a fair provocation. I’m not saying either side is ethically justifiable. They’re not. But that’s the whole point of the show. Both sides had committed unforgivable atrocities, and continuing the cycle of violence would likely just end up with both races decimated entirely.

                • I’m honestly not convinced that “creating artificial intelligence and using it as a labor force, then freaking out and trying to destroy it when it rebels” is the same thing as “enslaving a race and attempting genocide on them.” But even leaving that aside, you’re conveniently forgetting the peace treaty that followed that war. The Cylons were the ones who broke that treaty, and they had no justification for it.

                  Both sides had committed unforgivable atrocities

                  But only one of them took, and I think that matters.

                  continuing the cycle of violence would likely just end up with both races decimated entirely

                  Once again, the humans were decimated entirely after the first hour of the miniseries.

                • I’m not prepared to consider artificial intelligence as inferior to biological life. If a being has sentience, it doesn’t really matter to me whether it was specifically created to serve humanity or not.

                  No one’s saying the Cylons were justified in breaking the peace treaty. Again, the whole point of the show is that both sides did things that were completely unjustifiable.

                  But only one of them took, and I think that matters.

                  I’m not convinced. Hitler didn’t actually succeed at wiping out all the Jews, but that doesn’t make his actions any less evil.

                  Once again, the humans were decimated entirely after the first hour of the miniseries.

                  And humanity very nearly decimated the Cylons even more thoroughly in response.

                • Basically, what I’m trying to get at is that humanity attempted its own genocide in response to the Cylons’ genocide, so by this reasoning, even if we ignore their violation of the peace treaty, the Cylons would’ve been entirely justified in trying to finish the job against humanity after that point. Both sides committed unforgivable atrocities throughout the series. They’re entirely justified in not trusting each other, but at the same time, if they’d continued the cycle of violence, one or both races would’ve been entirely decimated sooner or later. The fact that the show presents reconciliation as being ultimately necessary is amongst the least of my problems with it. We’re not supposed to sympathise much or at all with the actions of either side; that’s the entire point. At some point, there are things more important than retribution. I have a lot of issues with the series, but the fact that it presented peace as being ultimately necessary is not one of them.

              • bender

                @Abigail Nussbaum–From the little I’ve heard about it, one of the earlier ice ages, or some other drastic climate change, reduced the planetary population of homo sapiens to fewer than 40,000 from a much higher number. This episode is sometimes known as the bottleneck. The human race barely survived, but now there are upwards of 7 billion, albeit with reduced genetic diversity.

      • Murc

        Exhibit A is, of course, the very notion that there’s something wrong or immoral with the humans’ hatred of Cylons, or with their desire to kill them all. Per our recent conversations about Nazi-punching, if you participate in the murder of tens of billions of people, you’ve basically forfeited your right to exist, and it may actually be the duty of anyone who considers themselves a moral individual to actively pursue your death.

        It’s worth noting that in regard to this specific context, the Cylons can use this logic just as well as the Colonials can: the Cylons were slaves who the Colonials attempted to genocide when they rose up in revolt against their slavemasters. Under your logic, the Cylons have a complete moral right to pursue the deaths of the Colonials.

        • I know that this is something the show tried to argue, but even leaving aside that there is simply nothing the humans could have done that would have justified what the Cylons did to them, there’s still this simple problem: at the time the Cylon attack at the beginning of the series, the humans and the Cylons were at peace. There was a working peace treaty that had held for fifty years, and could have held forever for all we know. The Cylons are the ones who chose to break it, which makes them the villains of the story.

          • Aexia

            There’s a third season episode that reveals the Colonies were breaking the treaty.

          • Murc

            I know that this is something the show tried to argue, but even leaving aside that there is simply nothing the humans could have done that would have justified what the Cylons did to them

            Except that your explicitly stated logic is that if your society attempts genocide, that makes pursuing your collective societal death a worthy moral goal. Or am I misunderstanding your position?

  • Bob Loblaw Lobs Law Bomb

    I can’t believe that BSG has been off the air so long that all of the articles Farley links to in the “Responses” post are now dead.

  • Woodrowfan

    You know who else didn’t like the Finale!! ;)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuoVwA7AsFI

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