Home / General / Worst. Tu. Quoque. Ever.

Worst. Tu. Quoque. Ever.


Shorter Verbatim Dr. Helen: “As if NYC doesn’t have enough to worry about, a campaign is underway to curb manspreading [assholes who sit in a way that occupies multiple seats on the subway — ed. ]…So, if it’s okay to subway shame men, is it okay to slut-shame women? Slut-shaming is “defined by many as a process in which women are attacked for their transgression of accepted codes of sexual conduct.” So now men are attacked. Why is one form of sexism okay and the other not?”

So, let’s see. We have an assertion that men have the right to other people’s public space. We then have a non-sequitur expressing misogynist resentment. Yup, it’s hard to get much more conservertarian than that!

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  • Snarki, child of Loki

    Hey, first we have to deal with the self-important assholes that use two parking spaces because they don’t want peons to park near their sweet wheels.

    Manspeading, but not on subways.

    • Denverite

      Those people better hope they just got a car wash, because otherwise they get a big “A**HOLE” written on their windshield if I’m around.

      • Ann Outhouse

        Those people wash their babies every day.

        Lipstick works well. It’s cheap if you buy the no-name stuff, fairly waterproof and does no damage to the windows.

    • brugroffil

      I get parking farther away from the “crowd” of cars because, let’s face it, a lot of people are actually pretty inconsiderate and leave door dings in other peoples’ cars. But the double or, god forbid, quad-parking space parkers can go right to hell. My wife had to stop me from leaving a nice dent in the side of a $100k Mercedes that was taking up four spots at the mall around Christmas last year.

      • Lee Rudolph

        Caltrops, suitably deployed.

        And you can hang any extra ones on your Christmas tree!!!

        • Caltrops

          Whatever happened to Erik Estrada? I assumed that I hadn’t heard of him lately because of a clothing-related asphyxiation incident, but who knows?

        • Malaclypse

          Caltrops, suitably deployed.

          Alternatively, a potato placed snugly within the exhaust pipe will prevent the car from starting, while doing no actual damage.

          • Scott Lemieux

            I’m not going to fall for the banana in the tailpipe!

      • c u n d gulag

        Back when I was young and strong, and a stock boy at Sears, some dip of shite parked his Triumph convertible diagonally across two spaces in the stores fairly busy lot.

        Me and 4 or 5 other young guys went out, lifted his car, and put it in horizontally and moved our cars to block him in.
        Kind of like this: I-I, so he couldn’t get out.

        The dip of shite came in to complain, and asked us to announce over the stores PA to have the owners move their cars.

        After the license plates were announced throughout the store, we still didn’t move our cars.
        And of course, we didn’t tell him that they were ours!
        We just shrugged, and said we guessed he was just SOL.

        He had someone pick him up. And he left in a huff. No, it wasn’t a huff – or even a minute and a huff – it was a friend’s VW, I think. ;-)

        We all laughed our asses off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
        THEN, we eventually moved our cars.
        At the end of our shift, at 9pm.

        Good times… Good times…

        • Aimai

          I love you for this story.

          • c u n d gulag

            Thanks, Aimai.
            And you know that I love you for ANY and EVERY story!!! ;-)

            I forgot to add that the guy asked Sears Security to run the plates – they were all off-duty local town and city cops.

            I pulled the head of security and told him what we’d done.
            He laughed his ass off!!!
            He said he had no problem with what we had done, maybe it’d teach this asshole a lesson – and promptly went out and told dip of shite that he wasn’t allowed to run the plates.

            Back in the mid-70’s, it was a much cooler, more fun and relaxed time.
            Even the cops were much cooler!
            They were cool with what a bunch of stoned teenagers had done to a wealthy guy’s car.

            Now, that dip of shite would be liable to come back, armed, and shoot us as we went to go to our cars in the evening.

        • Beautiful!

        • KarenJo12

          I love you, too.

          Last July, when my husband was in the hospital, my sons and I went to our local Y to get some much – needed stress release. Our Y has a small parking lot, and hosts youth sports on Fridays so the lot is always full. Some d-bag in a ginormous truck had parked so that he blocked FOUR precious parking spaces. I took a picture of the truck, using my Nook to block the license plate, and posted the pic on Facebook. I got over a hundred “likes” and several suggestions that I should not have covered his license plate.

          • c u n d gulag

            Yeah, I agree with the others – I wouldn’t have covered his license plate, either.

            But, then, you’re a decent person and not a schmuck like me. :-)

            • KarenJo12

              You’re not a schmuck, and, this being Texas, I didn’t want to risk learning that Mr. TrukNutz was armed.

              • c u n d gulag

                Good point!

        • And he left in a huff.

          Cheap bastard. I would have hired a High Dudgeon.

          • c u n d gulag

            Herr doktor,
            Fair warning:
            I am absolutely stealing that line!

    • Warren Terra

      My related pet peeve (perhaps because I mostly use my car for the weekly shop) is the people who abandon their shopping carts in the parking lot – especially blocking a space, and especially blocking a space in such a way that you can’t see the cart until you’re halfway into the space.

      • Ann Outhouse

        My local Publix does an excellent job of policing carts left in the lot. So you don’t see much of this.

        But I also think it’s partly a case of monkey-see-monkey-do — when people see carts (or litter) lying around just anywhere, they leave their own lying around just anywhere. If the store is more aggressive in policing the lot (and picking up litter) you wind up with better-behaved customers.

        • Ramon A. Clef

          Broken window policing, for the grocery store parking lot?

        • matt w

          I also wonder if people with kids are concerned about what would happen if they buckled them in and then trucked the cart back to the cart return. There’s probably some officious jerk out there who would blow the whistle on a parent for leaving a kid buckled in the car for the minute it would take to do this.

          • Aimai

            The custom around here in the only lot I go to is to leave them discreetly and then they are retrieved by some employees of the store. I can definitely say that when I was toting around young children I wouldn’t leave them in the car, buckled, while walking to the store. Not because I was paranoid but because other people are so nuts.

            • Hogan

              Our regular store has covered areas in the parking lot where you can leave them without going all the way back to the store.

              • Aimai

                Target has lots of uncovered but easy to reach areas distributed around the parking lot. Whole Foods does not.

                • Hogan

                  Sounds like Whole Foods might need a kick in the whole.

    • The Temporary Name

      There’s often signage around the lot for towing companies, and they LOVE excuses to tow.

  • Malaclypse

    As if NYC doesn’t have enough to worry about…

    I’m guessing that people paying one fare but taking up three seats is, in fact, a fairly large problem for the NYC subway system. Or does she think the Transit Authority is in charge of the whole city?

    • NonyNony

      Or does she think

      I’d assume she, in fact, does not.

      I do like how she jumps from “men should be considerate and not take up more than the one seat they’ve actually paid for” to “women shouldn’t be all slutty-slutting around town” as equivalent ideas. Even in my most stupidest youthful libertarian days I hope I would have been able to shoot that one down in my sleep.

  • Denverite

    PSA: If you are an able-bodied adult under 50 and you’re sitting on the subway, you’re doing it wrong.

    • MPAVictoria

      If you make public transportation miserable no one will want to take it. I walk to work or drive. I hate the bus because it is crowded, uncomfortable, noisy and slow.

    • Warren Terra


      I mean, obviously, if space is limited and someone with greater need can’t find a seat, you give yours up. But if seats are available and you prefer to sit down, you aren’t doing anything wrong.

      • brewmn

        Yeah, I wanted to respond to this. Proper public transportation etiquette is: move as far to the back of the bus or train car as possible, take a seat.

        If you see someone that needs a seat (e.g., an elderly person or someone with a disability), then you give your seat up. But standing just to stand clogs the aisles and makes entering and leaving more difficult.

        • CaptainBringdown

          On a subway, the best place to stand is as far away from the doors as possible, not necessarily as far back as possible. People who stand in front of the doors in order to lean on them when there’s plenty of room in the middle of the car make me wish for a door malfunction between stops at high speed.

          • brad

            Because standing in someone’s personal space is obviously preferable.

            You need to rethink your personal subway rules.

            • CaptainBringdown

              You do realize the primary purpose of doors is for people to enter and exit the train, I presume? Why on earth you equate not blocking the doors with standing in someone’s personal space escapes me.

              • brad

                I have legs, the doors only open on one side at a time, and each line has its own rhythms. Standing in people’s space when the door slots are open, or the between door central pole or etc, is far, far ruder.
                And it depends on the car setup and the line. I’m talking about the L, more than anything. If you mean, say, the A, then yeah, different cars, different rules.

                • sharonT

                  You don’t ride the DC Metro do you? If you do, would you note the line and the times of day? Perhaps wear a yellow rose in your lapel so I can stomp on your foot as you block the door when I try to disembark?


                • NonyNony

                  Just stomp on the feet of everyone blocking the door. They all deserve it.

          • What about standing in the doorway on the side that the doors stay closed? Here in Boston, I believe there’s only one station on the entire system that has the doors open on both sides. If I’m taking the Orange Line home, heading south from downtown, I know to stand on the left for two stops then move to the right to stay out of everyone’s way.

    • Gregor Sansa

      PSA: if every able-bodied person under 50 on the subway has to stand, and not just at rush hour and/or the busiest 10% of stops, your city should be busy buying more trains and/or building more lines.

      • Aimai

        Yes, this.

      • And … do other cities not have seating reserved for people who need it? WMATA has just launched a campaign to remind people to give up the seats near the doors.

        But one of the many frustrations of public commuting is not being able to get on a train because it is full of people who – for whatever reason – won’t sit down in the empty seats. What are they afraid of, cooties?

        (They’re not as bad as the people who stand in the door when you’re trying to get off, but they’re close. )

    • Origami Isopod

      What kind of idiotic bullshit is this? If there are enough seats for everyone, or if there aren’t but nobody who is incapable of standing has been left standing, what do you care?

      Also, perhaps you’d like to pass along your wisdom to workers who’ve been on their feet all day in service jobs, construction, and the like — versus, oh, folks who’ve been sitting down at a desk all day, such as well-paid lawyers?

      • TribalistMeathead

        Not to mention to people who have much, much longer commutes than that one time you took the 2 from 42nd Street to Bowling Green.

      • Aimai

        Yeah, I have to agree with OI and Tribalist here.** The idea should be to create more, faster, cleaner, and more accessible public transportation that works for working people (who are tired) as well as tourists and young students travelling short hops. IF no one needs the seat I fail to see why leg spreading is a problem at all, anymore than “sitting under 50” is a crime.

        **In addition lots of people may use public transportation who have invisible disabilities–or rather lots of people have invisibility disabilities like inner ear problems, bilateral weakness, parkinson’s, joint trouble. Poor people who don’t have cars can have plenty of health problems. They should have seats on the subway–they are paying for them after all.

        • IF no one needs the seat I fail to see why leg spreading is a problem at all

          I agree. Although I definitely recognize the ‘manspreading’ problem and think most of the excuses for it are ridiculous, I think it’s a little silly when the photo taken shows a guy sitting on a completely empty bench of seats. I feel the same about similar photos showing people with their bags on the seats.

          The bus I use to go home is generally 25% full for the entire route, so I usually put my backpack on the seat next to me — it’s nice to not have to worry about kicking it or leaving it behind or putting it down in something nasty that the last rider left. If the bus starts to get even to 50-75% full I’ll happily move my bag, before anyone has to ask.

          The type of ‘manspreading’ picture that really bothers me, though, is the older and heavier guys who are just a little bit spread out. As a fat man, I make an effort to be as compact as possible, but it takes an exertion of force to get the knees together, and the most natural position has my legs at 10 degrees out in each direction.

          I already have a severe anxiety of taking up “too much space”, and seeing some of those pictures of fat guys sitting in a comfortable position for a fat guy is… mortifying. I wish the focus was more on the obvious offenders — the guys with their legs at right angles and such.

          • Lee Rudolph

            The bus I use to go home is generally 25% full for the entire route, so I usually put my backpack on the seat next to me — it’s nice to not have to worry about kicking it or leaving it behind or putting it down in something nasty that the last rider left.

            So, on your route the last rider never leaves anything nasty on the seat? Lucky you.

      • Denverite

        Was that shot really necessary?

        Anyway, I was exaggerating for effect, but as a personal matter, I generally do stand regardless of the available seats. There are a number of stops between where I get on and off, and although there may be available seats at the former (though this is rare on the train I ride, at least during morning rush hour), there may not be by the time the latter rolls around. I’d prefer to avoid the awkwardness that can result by getting up to give my seat to an elderly person or whatnot, who may or may not resent being treated like someone who needs to have a seat given up for him or her.

        • Origami Isopod

          Was that shot really necessary?

          Was your original comment really necessary?

          but as a personal matter, I generally do stand regardless of the available seats.

          Good for you. I don’t unless someone needs the seat more than I do. And I’ve never gotten any resentment when I’ve offered my seat, just appreciation, whether or not the other person accepts.

          • Denverite

            Was your original comment really necessary?

            Apparently the rule on here apparently is that any comment deemed unnecessary deserves a personal dig. Good to know.

            • uandme

              Nah… Maybe it’s just that your too familiar, always personal, often just humble-bragging – to say nothing of your overly detailed Broncos fetish – is ripe for poking!

              Do tell us on a beer thread that your drinking vodka… Go on and mention that you’ll be skiing next weekend instead of Bronco worshipping… Please tell us again how cultured and pedantic your Italianate wife is… how many twins do you have again?

              So you’re a lawyer and you really love running? Have I got that correct?

              • Lee Rudolph

                Wow. So many saved-up annoyances.

                • Fewer than one usually encounters on the subway, however.

              • brugroffil

                Someone really doesn’t like Denverite.

                • postmodulator

                  Yeah, as someone who mostly thinks Denverite is mostly a constructive commenter (and as someone who has both angered people, and told personal anecdotes) this is right on the edge of being kind of creepy.

          • sparks

            I only stand if I’m going a very short distance, maybe around 5 stops. Otherwise I sit.

    • Katya

      No. Nonononononono. I hate when I get on the Metro and a bunch of people are standing while empty seats go begging. It clogs up the doors and makes it harder for people to get on and off. Get on the train, move away from the doors, grab a seat. If there is no seat, move to the center of the car to allow more people to get on.

    • The Temporary Name

      Standing and reading. Not really all that fun.

      • I just rest my book on the head of the nearest person shorter than me.

  • Joe_JP

    Minimum reasoning skills … so important. Start teaching them young.

  • She’s got a weird interpretation of why guys sit straddle legged on the subway if she thinks it is sexual.

    • I always assumed that it was elephantiasis of the testicles, but when I asked a couple of guys they looked at me funny.

      • Lee Rudolph

        Sometimes I think my seat is so big because it is so full of dreams.

        • Aimai

          Both of these comments are wonderful. I wish they could be on a t-shirt.

      • KarenJo12

        I would guess crippling flatulence, but I don’t want to get close enough to ask.

        • Flatulence doesn’t cripple: it enhances. With the proper diet and some kitchen matches you can soar into the heavens!

          • KarenJo12

            Then he wouldn’t need to use the subway.

            • Soaring into the heavens does not, unfortunately, get one to DeKalb Avenue.

              • jim, some guy in iowa

                you need directional control. possibly major kong can set you up with a rudder or something

                • All across America – no, ALL ACROSS THE WORLD, LGM readers are waiting with bated breath to see if I will take the high road or if I will make the obvious “joystick” joke.

                • Lee Rudolph

                  The bowsprit gets mixed with the joystick sometimes.

    • “Wide stance” somehow acquired sexual connotations.

  • LeeEsq

    I am a Compact-New Yorker who rides the subway everyday. I can safely say that I’ve seen people of both genders and all ethnicities and religions take up too much room on the subway. If everybody managed to be short, like humans were intended to be, than we simply would not have this problem.

    Can we also do something about the subway dancers? It was cute the first few times but its annoying now. They weren’t as good as the Mexican marinachi bands either.

    I am not a crackpot.

    • Joe_JP

      its annoying now.

      The whole choir in the station who gave out free CDs however was pretty kewl.

    • TribalistMeathead

      The shitty doo-wop groups are worse than either one.

    • brad


      Manspreading is obnoxious, and really gross to see particular in shorts weather, but wasting space on the subway truly isn’t a gender specific thing. What pisses me off more than anything are people who stand inches in front of you for no spatial reason at all.

      • nixnutz

        I think the numbers are pretty much the same, there is certainly no shortage of women taking two or three seats with their bags or whatnot, but the men are more troublesome just because asking them to move is likelier to become confrontational.

        Personally I get bothered by people using space selfishly, standing in the doors (when there’s space elsewhere), standing on escalators, gathering at the base of a stairway, squeezing on while people are getting out… doing any of those things myself would give me tons of anxiety so I imagine other people who do them must be sociopaths, but I realize they probably just experience space differently than I do.

        But at the same time, I don’t hesitate to take a seat. I’ll get up for a pregnant or elderly person but otherwise it’s first-come first-served; if you want a seat, move to Sheepshead Bay.

        • NonyNony

          standing on escalators

          Standing on the escalators while blocking both sides, I can see as being irritating. But not everyone needs to barrel full speed down the escalator steps.

          OTOH – if you stop at the bottom of the escalator to read your phone without getting out of the way first you’re a horrible person and you deserve to be barreled into at full speed by the person behind you coming off the escalator who is also too busy reading their phone to be conscious of their surroundings…

        • sparks

          Tell my elderly mom about that “standing on escalators” bit. I’ll watch as you get a huge purse swung at you. It’s the height of rudeness out here to walk past people up/down escalators. It’s something only kids/teenagers do.

          • sharonT

            You’re kidding. Once again, avoid DC Metro if you insist upon standing on the left. You’ll save yourself a lot of, “ahem, excuse me, would you stand on the right?”

          • Customs vary. In D.C. it is the height of rudeness to make someone miss their train because you’re blocking the escalator.

            But the old ladies here are content with a dirty look and tooth-sucking. Perhaps some sotto voce muttering if they’re really unhappy. Purse swinging would be seen as rude.

          • ColBatGuano

            It’s the height of rudeness out here to walk past people up/down escalators.

            Wait, what? Unless you have some incredibly narrow escalators, there is absolutely no physical or social reason you can’t walk past them. Regardless of age. Stand to the right, pass on the left.

        • Lee Rudolph

          I realize they probably just experience space differently than I do.

          As being all theirs?

    • My favorites are the people who act as if I’m killing their puppy when I ask them to move their bag(s).

  • tsam

    So telling men not to hog extra space is the same as slut shaming. Who fucking knew?

    • I’m surprised she didn’t trot this out in response to Canada’s “Don’t be that guy” campaign.

      And what about spitting? The no spitting signs aren’t directed at men, but I’ve rarely seen a woman spit in the subway (or anywhere), so it could be seen as sexism.

      On the other hand, those No Shirt, No Service signs, they’re definitely aimed at men. (Except in NYC.)

      Basically, when you all you have is a conservative hammer, everything looks like an excuse to get an anger boner about what women do with their bodies.

      • Basically, when you all you have is a conservative hammer, everything looks like an excuse to get an anger boner about what women do with their bodies.

        I’m surprised she stopped at slut shaming when, by that nonexistent standard, anything can be compared to dudes taking up two or more seats on the train. This nanny state outrage is easily comparable to, say, texting while driving, black on black crime, and, I dunno, gay abortion or something.

        • NonyNony

          I wonder what Dr. Helen and The Perfesser’s opinions are on texting while driving. Is discouraging texting and driving the highest form of nanny-statism, or exactly the kind of thing government should be doing? I bet the answer will shock, amaze, and depend almost entirely on whether someone they know was hit by an idiot who was texting while driving.

          (In my younger libertarian days I recall people ranting about setbelt laws and motorcycle helmet laws and how these were “the highest form of nanny-statism”. Requirements to do minor things in the name of public safety were constant threats to liberty back in the day.)

          • Malaclypse

            I bet the answer will shock, amaze, and depend almost entirely on whether someone they know was hit by an idiot who was texting while driving.

            Nah, it will depend on what Obama has said.

            • NonyNony

              Has Obama said anything about texting while driving?

              A quick Google says that the President did sign an executive order to prevent Federal workers from texting while driving (on duty I’d assume) and that Ray LaHood was pushing for a national ban on texting while driving.

              Interesting – I’m surprised that I don’t see some of the coal rollers around here fervently texting their way into a ditch because Obama’s against texting while driving.

              • Malaclypse

                See, the problem with that is it risks innocent bystanders. He needs to come out, strongly, against adults drinking drano.

      • Aimai

        They really, really, really, hate the “Don’t Be That Guy” campaign with the fervor they usually reserve for seatbelts, fluoridation, and helmet laws. Basically a PSA that reminds people to act humanely and safely for their own sake and ours is the most horrific attack on the rights of assholes, morons, and rapists imaginable. Even discussing rape is worse than rape, apparently, like discussing racism is worse than being a racist.

  • randomworker

    She is completely adrift. Just plain nuts. Plus, obviously has never ridden on public transit in large cities.

    • Hell, I’m willing to bet she has never BEEN to a large city…

      • Lee Rudolph

        According to Wikipedia, she has “masters degrees from The New School for Social Research and the City University of New York”.

        I suppose she could have done the correspondence course versions.

        • Aimai

          Everyone knows that two Masters degrees equal a ph.d.

          • Lee Rudolph

            Several decades ago, I was standing around in the math department office at Mt. Holyoke, waiting for my host to finish teaching. The chair’s personal office was just off the department office. A youngish faculty member (not one I knew) came in from the hallway, went straight to the chair’s office, and breathlessly informed the chair that her (the youngish person’s) students had just explained their understanding of the faculty hierarchy: an Assistant Professor had a B.A. in the subject, an Associate Professor an M.A., and a Full Professor a Ph.D. Before I could hear the chair’s reply, my host arrived and removed me from the scene.

            I have always assumed that the students were trolling an evidently very susceptible target. But, who knows?

  • brewmn

    Doesn’t manspreading piss off everybody who has to deal with it, male/female, liberal/conservative? Does anybody want to sit next to a stranger with that stranger’s leg pushing them out of their seat?

    In other words, what the fuck is wrong with these people, part eleventy-million?

    • Joshua

      Yes. There was a manspreader invading my personal space the other day. It’s just annoying.

      How this crackpot compares criticism of manspreading to slut shaming is beyond me.

      • Aimai


        • Hogan

          That sounds like it might be one of their pet names for each other.

          And now I’m in a scary visual place.

    • Gabriel Ratchet

      It’s particularly curious as one of the oft-repeated complaints of so many Men’s Rights types is how of course they respect women but some “feminist” once yelled at them for holding a door for them (I don’t actually believe this ever happens — it’s the “hippies spat on returning vets” of the MRA movement, but whatever), otherwise they’d be All Chivalry All The Time. Now, here’s a campaign tailor-made for all these frustrated white knights to show off how considerate they can be and their immediate response is “Nobody tells me what to do, bitch!”

      One might almost get the idea they were never serious about all that “respect” stuff.

  • 33lp

    Please define/explain “conservertarian.” It’s not in any dictionary I’ve consulted, and I don’t want to guess from context.

    • Warren Terra

      It is a portmanteau of “Conservative” and “Libertarian”. It means someone who is a conservative but who will when called on the bankruptcy of Conservatism insist that, no, they’re really a Libertarian at heart. They may even deign not to hate Gays, or to occasionally express sympathy for those unjustly victimized by the criminal justice system. But in every case where it matters – where actual legislation is at stake, or some public official’s career isin question – they will firmly side with the Conservatives, whatever their professed Libertarian principles might dictate.

      • 33lp

        Thank you. I had not considered the portmanteau option. The only help Google had was to suggest I had spelled “conservatarian” wrong.

      • Ahuitzotl

        really it should be a starboardanteau for this situation

    • A Republican who calls himself a Libertarian when they’re trying to get laid.

      • Linnaeus

        Or when he wants his girlfriend to able to get an abortion because, hey, he’s doing Great Things ™ and doesn’t have time to deal with that shit.

  • davidjoseph1

    Manspreading is a vital activity for men blessed with microscopic genitalia.

    (It needs air and light, like a newborn wallaby!)

  • Derelict

    She and Prof. Corncob must be hysterical when they’re together.

    “Hun, will you pass me the asparagus?”
    “Magna Carta robot vagina. And thanks, Obama!”
    “No, dear–I don’t want a doorstop. The asparagus. Unless by eating those somewhat phallic things I’m being slutty!”
    “Res ispa LowJack! And less government, except Republican.”
    “I’ll get a plate of alarm clocks myself, thank you.”

    • D.N. Nation

      Heh. Indeed. Read the whole thing.

  • Aaron Baker

    Can there a be a worst Tu Quoque ever? Given their singularly noxious combination of logical fallacy and bad faith, I was inclined to think all such arguments amounted to a Ne Plus Ultra of the Incoherent bedding down with the Immoral–but I’ve been wrong before.

  • Origami Isopod

    Raise your hand if you see the term “manspreading” and you have to mentally correct yourself that it has nothing to do with gay porn.

    • NonyNony

      Well I didn’t before but now I will.

      • Aimai

        I ain’t raising my hand nohow. Mrs. Aimai didn’t raise a fool.

  • Murc

    You know, there’s a tiny soupcon of a point buried in there; it really shouldn’t be a gendered term. I get up to Toronto a fair bit, and the ‘spread out and be a jerk about it’ phenomenon seems fairly evenly split on the subways there.

    But good lord, she takes what could actually be a fairly legitimate point and just… falls down the rabbit hole, then deposes the Red Queen for being too much of a squish, before turning Wonderland into a Galtian paradise.

    I mean, wow. Just wow.

    • I definitely see it more with men — there’s a particular stance with the legs to the side and stuck out, sitting low in the seat, and arms up on the backs that seems to be the sole province of young men. But my (female) ex would happily park her backpack in one seat and sprawl out across another two. It’s really just a matter of being inconsiderate, and I think men are more likely to be socialized to be oblivious of and/or indifferent to other people’s needs.

  • MedicineMan

    Our local transit company does little cartoons to educate about inconsiderate behavior on public transpo: http://www.translink.ca/petpeeves

    My personal least favorites are the people who wait at the front of a line of people who want to get onto the next train and when given the chance to board take two steps in and occupy a position blocking the entrance. Fucking oblivious.

    • Murc

      They’re not oblivious.

      They want to be the first one off at their stop when it comes. It’s far, far easier to stand still and let a crowd make its way around you than to move with it and/or try and force your way through it.

      They’re assholes. They’re not dumb.

      • Hogan

        They want to be the first one off at their stop when it comes.

        So why not be the last one to get on?

        • Warren Terra

          I think you’ve missed the key element of their character. They want everything first, and biggest, and aren’t interested in making the smallest and most meaningless of gestures to benefit others, not even when doing so costs them nothing.

        • NonyNony

          Because then someone else might be standing where they want to stand and they’ll have to push their way to the back.

      • This makes a sort of sense right up until more than one person has the same idea. Then it becomes dumb.

    • A lot worse than the spreaders. They make me insane.

      On the moral equivalence question, perhaps one ought to take up kicking the spreaders in the nuts and seeing if Dr. Helen says, “Well, he was asking for it, if he’d kept his knees together it would never have happened.”

      • NonyNony

        I approve this comment.

  • so-in-so

    But wait, isn’t Public Transportation the first step toward communism anyway? Could’a sworn George Will said so…

  • DrDick

    Reading Dr. Helen (or her equally malignant hubby) causes brain damage.

  • Rob Patterson
    • matt w

      I thought that one actually was going to be “Christ, what an asshole!”

  • witlesschum

    She reads like a malfunctioning trollbot who James T. Kirk just asked to define friendship or something.

  • Philip
  • marcel proust

    So, let’s see. We have an assertion that men have the right to other people’s public space. We then have a non-sequitur expressing misogynist resentment.

    Yes, but both are about different kinds of spreading, dig?

    (I haven’t seen anyone make the connection above, and think it important that someone do it).

  • Four Krustys

    My tu quoque weighs a ton

    • Lee Rudolph

      I have a four quoque.

      • Murc

        I didn’t know we had krogan commenters.

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