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In the wake of the Gatorade ad, this is more my kind of Derek Jeter story.

….From a comment of mine below that explains this:

The point in linking to this was quite simple–an antidote to Jeter-love. Is it crude? Of course. Does it matter in any meaningful way? Of course not. Is it bullshit? Yeah, sure. Is it beneath me? Nothing is beneath me. That should be perfectly clear in September 2014.

On the other hand, it is also part of a larger project I think is important–which is to crush the idea of heroism, something that has never served a society well. Now, Derek Jeter, a marginal to slightly above average HOF shortstop is hardly the worst case of this. It’s hardly his fault after all. But the absurdity of Jeter-love this year, personified in that ridiculous Gatorade ad but infecting the entire season, is something that has tried to place him as almost super-human, a personification of what generations have wanted baseball players to be. So to bring that down to earth a bit, well, that’s what I am doing here.

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  • pianomover

    Why?

    • Manju

      Erik never misses an opportunity to give Derek a tongue-lashing.

      • Manju

        not that there’s anything wrong with that

  • mch

    Wow, Erik. None of my business, DJ’s sex life. If true (and now it’s “out there,” so, I mean, we must think it may be! thank you, Cokie!), if said woman was willing to perform the last step for whatever “reward,” that’s her decision.

    Get a grip. The NYY as epitome of “the man” is to buy into Steinbrenner’s myth, MBA’s marketing, so much that is a cliche unrecognizable to Yankees’ truest black and brown fans in the Bronx (for instance).

    • I have absolutely no idea what any of this comment means.

      • DrS

        It certainly sounded to me like you were shaming Jeter for his rumored sex life.

      • Rat2

        Really? I’ll interpret for you. mch alleges:

        (1) Jeter’s sex life is not a worthy topic of conversation.
        (2) This particular story about Jeter’s sex life is based on unreliable speculation and it is, therefore, beneath you to pass it along.
        (3) You’re sex-shaming because, even if the story is true, there’s nothing wrong with ass-eating – yet your post about this incident is predicated on ass-eating being bad.
        (4) Your desire to criticize Jeter in this manner reveals your own weakness and, more importantly, the fact that you are buying into the very mythology that you purport to criticize.

        Now, I’m not saying that I agree with any of that, but that’s what mch is saying, as you know full well.

        • 1. I had no idea what mch was saying.

          2. As has been fully established over the past 3 years, I could not care less if commenters like my posts or not.

          3. Nothing is beneath me. So stick it if you don’t like it.

          4. This is the perfect story as the counterpoint to the utterly absurd mythology of Jeter that is going on this year.

          5. Once again, go read another blog if you don’t like it.

          • Rat2

            I think you’re missing the point. I personally found your post amusing. I just think you were being disingenuous about mch’s lame post, so I called you on it. And I’m right.

            • Again, you are wrong in that I had no idea what mch was getting at. Even after the 2nd post it’s unclear.

              • Rat2

                Ok, I concede. It’s not the first time I’ve been wrong. (mch’s second post certainly did muddy the waters.)

              • Grumpy

                then you’re dumber than I thought

      • mch

        Like everyone and everything else, the Yankees have a history.

        For those who have been alive for more than 40 years, that history includes not just ogres like George Steinbrenner but also the growth of MLB (an acronym that not so long ago did not even exist). The growth, too (or rather promotion — the rivalry was always there, from Boston’s pov, at least) of the Boston-NY thing. Okay, ticket-sales, TV contracts….

        Meanwhile, Cokie Roberts rather famously (in some circles) made the mantra “it’s out there” a journalist’s justification for covering every right-wing-manufactured charge or claim as if it was worthy of serious journalists’ attention. (Hello, invasion of Iraq, thank you very much.)

        So, somebody or other makes some claims about Derek Jeter, a NY Yankee. And because the charge is “out there,” let’s automatically consider it worthy of consideration and spread the word. So Cokie.

        Even if the charge is made by someone perfectly willing to do what she alleges DJ asked her to do.

        Meanwhile, if you actually go to Yankees games, you know that their local fans crowd around for tickets. Yankee Stadium is in the Bronx, a very black and brown place. Weirdly, George Steinbrenner’s team has all these true working class black and brown fans. Go figure.

        Just saying, history is complicated, as you well know most of the time.

        Also, if anyone saw my post at Campos, I can’t stand the Jeter promo stuff going on, esp. the most recent thing he posted admiringly (so it seemed).

        • Rat2

          With respect to my defense of you, your post is uniquely unhelpful.

        • I still only have a vague idea of what you are getting at. That lots of people of color like the Yankees, well, yeah. No one is questioning that or seeing it as relevant.

          The point in linking to this was quite simple–an antidote to Jeter-love. Is it crude? Of course. Does it matter in any meaningful way? Of course not. Is it bullshit? Yeah, sure. Is it beneath me? Nothing is beneath me. That should be perfectly clear in September 2014.

          On the other hand, it is also part of a larger project I think is important–which is to crush the idea of heroism, something that has never served a society well. Now, Derek Jeter, a marginal to slightly above average HOF shortstop is hardly the worst case of this. It’s hardly his fault after all. But the absurdity of Jeter-love this year, personified in that ridiculous Gatorade ad but infecting the entire season, is something that has tried to place him as almost super-human, a personification of what generations have wanted baseball players to be. So to bring that down to earth a bit, well, that’s what I am doing here.

          History is complicated indeed. So is the present and so is mythology.

          • Rat2

            This is good stuff and why people come to this blog — more thoughtful than the OP and worthy of an “update,” in my opinion.

            • Normally I don’t do that, but doing so here might preclude angry comments. So OK.

              • Rat2

                Heh. You’ll probably get angry comments either way, but it was an interesting idea that people might enjoy chewing on, so you might as well make it easy for them to find.

                • If people aren’t mad at me for something, I am lost.

                • Origami Isopod

                  people might enjoy chewing on

                  So to speak.

          • That pretty much encapsulates how I think of this whole Jeter thing. I’ve been waiting for someone to suggest that Jeter will ascend directly to heaven at the end of the Yankees’ last game of the year.

            • The fans believe Yankees have to descend to heaven.

              • Manju

                believe? know! and, heh.

          • Barry Freed

            The point in linking to this was quite simple–an antidote to Jeter-love.

            On the contrary, I’m pretty sure the linked post in question demonstrated the ultimate in Jeter-love.

          • Brien Jackson

            Werid: No one did that for Mariano Rivera last season, or Chipper Jones the year prior.

            What’s really going on here is that, as the thing actually culminates with getting closer to Jeter’s final game, lots of people are having trouble separating their disdain for the media narratives/branding of Jeter with the fact that it’s actually okay for Yankee/baseball fans to be fans of Derek Jeter the baseball player.

            • The contrast between Rivera and Jeter is interesting, to be sure, but I think that’s easily explained as “Jeter played nine innings a game, Mariano swept the floors” kind of mentality (Yes, I’m aware there’s a tint of racism in there. But we’re talking a team whose most virulent supporters voted for Romney)

              • Manju

                Wait…is Brien talking about the hero stuff, or Erik’s anti-hero thingie?

          • Sly

            On the other hand, it is also part of a larger project I think is important–which is to crush the idea of heroism, something that has never served a society well.

            And on the other other hand, it may only crush the idea that heroes don’t go in for a little ass play once in a while.

  • c u n d gulag

    1. Who cares if that’s what Jeter likes sexually? And Erik, you acknowledged that.
    This is just an “anti” tale to the Jeter worship this year that even I, a die hard Yankee fan, find beyond over-the-top.

    2. And poor Erik – you only have a little more than a week to hate on Jeter.

    3. Btw – the HOF is not full of marginally to slightly above average shortstop’s who are in the top 10., 20, 30, or even 100, in career hits.

    Jeter is # 6, career-wise!

    And, he’s hardly an “accumulator,” since in 2012, the season he broke his ankle in the playoffs, he led the AL – maybe both leagues – in hits, with 216.
    At the age of 38!

    Show me another marginal or slightly above average SS who did that before at the age of 38.

    I know you hate the Yanks, and Jeter specifically, but he’s definitely in the conversation as being in the top 3-10 shortstops of all time.

    I look forward, Erik, to your post-Jeter retirement baseball posts, since you clearly love the sport as much as I do.

    Your anti-Yankee/Jeter hatred has consumed you, of late.

    • randy khan

      Lots of hits, not a huge amount of power, decent number of stolen bases, mediocre defensively (actually, negative defensive WAR), no MVPs, played on a bunch of World Series winners. (Actually, in all of the usual categories other than hits and home runs, he ranks in the 100-150 range; he’s 288th in HR.) His career WAR ranks 88th overall.

      So, better than and more deserving of the Hall than Phil Rizzuto (by a lot, actually, since Rizzuto probably didn’t deserve to get in, although he did win an MVP), but not remotely as good as Cal Ripken (career WAR of 95, about 24 points better than Jeter). He shouldn’t be in the conversation as one of the 3 or 5 best shortstops of all time. He might be marginally in the top 10 conversation, though.

      • Scott Lemieux

        I think he’s pretty easily top 10. He ranks top 10 in WAR, and I’d immediately move him ahead of Dahlen and Davis, marginally better WAR in a far less competitive league. Yount stopped playing SS early. Even if you want to move Trammell ahead of him he’s top 10.

        • randy khan

          I give him a fairly big downgrade for having a negative defensive WAR at the second most important defensive position. If a big galoot like Ripken can have a +24 defensive WAR . . .

          Anyway, I won’t argue with someone who wants him in the top 10. I draw the line at top 3, though.

          • Scott Lemieux

            The WAR takes that into account — Ozzie Smith ranks ahead of him — and being able to play even a below-average shortstop still has substantial defensive value.

            • randy khan

              As I said, I won’t argue with someone who puts him in the top 10.

              Anyway, my comment was intended to convey that I would tend to overweight defensive WAR for shortstops. It’s partly because someone like Jeter (in fact, Jeter specifically) who was strong offensively could be moved to somewhere else where he wouldn’t be a defensive liability, like 3rd base. This probably is an antediluvian view, and I’m perfectly willing to cop to that.

              It interests me greatly that over the roughly equal lengths of their careers, Ripken was worth somewhere like 2.4 WAR a year more than Jeter defensively. Now, of course, part of that is Ripken moving to 3rd, but in some respects that’s my exactly my point.

    • randy khan

      Also, what I took from the post was not so much that Jeter has unusual sexual tastes (about which I care not one whit), but the sense of entitlement – “Do this thing and then you can go.” That’s the part that caught my attention.

    • djw

      3. Btw – the HOF is not full of marginally to slightly above average shortstop’s who are in the top 10., 20, 30, or even 100, in career hits.

      Your all-consuming Jeter worship has caused your reading comprehension to deteriorate. Erik said “marginal to slightly above average HOF shortstop”–he was comparing not to the universe of shortstops but to the universe of shortstops in the HOF.

      • Right–I may be the worst person in the world for putting up this post, but let’s be clear, I’m saying that Jeter is marginal to slightly above average compared to other HOF inductees.

      • Origami Isopod

        all-consuming Jeter worship

        I think that more accurately describes the woman in the anecdote.

        • Lee Rudolph

          The account I’ve read doesn’t involve her consuming anything, exactly.

          • Origami Isopod

            Technically, no. Which… I have to say, I’m glad of.

            • Lee Rudolph

              It pleases not the million, it is caviar to the general.

        • The term of art is “salad tossing”.

      • c u n d gulag

        Whooops!
        You’re right – but it wasn’t Jeter worship – it was because I hadn’t finished my cup of coffee when I commented!

    • And, he’s hardly an “accumulator,” since in 2012, the season he broke his ankle in the playoffs, he led the AL – maybe both leagues – in hits, with 216.
      At the age of 38!

      Hmmmmm….I can’t imagine how, on a team with a long history of known steroid use –surrounded by players, coaches, and owners who really should be in jail — that could possibly happen!

      And that’s why Jeter is not a shoo-in for the HoF.

      • brad

        You have got to be fucking kidding me.

  • Lee Rudolph

    On the other hand, it is also part of a larger project I think is important–which is to crush the idea of heroism, something that has never served a society well.

    Erik, you are my hero!

  • Ronan

    I was thinking ‘Derek Jeter, ass eater’would be a good heading. But it turns out it’s *his* ass getting eaten, not vice versa, so dont know how we can accommodate that.

    • jim, some guy in iowa

      it would have to be “ass eatee”, which is likely going to lead to people confusing Jeter with St Francis of Assisi- next thing we know, N_B’s comment below becomes *prophecy*

      • Ronan

        do you not pronounce the R in Jeter ?

        • jim, some guy in iowa

          ah, *now* i see where you were going

          • Ronan

            it was a deeply complicated, intelligent comment.i cant blame people for not getting it first time : )

      • mikeSchilling

        Jeter might not have gone to college, but he aced the ass eateees.

    • The Bobs

      Jeter gets his salad tossed?

  • Just remember Erik, if you kill Jeter he’ll be a martyr and the canonization process will start.

  • sleepyirv

    “On the other hand, it is also part of a larger project I think is important–which is to crush the idea of heroism, something that has never served a society well.”

    Okay, but I would probably start with MLK if you really believe this. I mean, there are actual people over the age of 12 who consider him a hero. This is just childish vindictiveness. I’m not even really bothered by childish vindictiveness except when people feel the need to justify it in some way something else. Now THAT has never served a society well. You don’t like Jeter, whatever. People don’t like random celebrities for no apparent reason all the time. It’s probably something you don’t want be proud about.

    If you ever feel the need to link to that sanctimonious gossip site Deadspin, which publishes stuff like this along with hacked celeb nudes, you’re probably doing something wrong.

    • Davis X. Machina

      Hero ≠ prophet.

    • Manny Kant

      Yeah, this. This “I want to bring down heroes” thing is just bogus rationalization of prurient bullshit. I don’t really expect much better from Loomis, but it’s still pretty awful.

      • jeer9

        Agreed, especially about the hokey rationalization. In fact, it seems rather important to have heroes and/or role models in life. Most people with a half a brain (the audience of LGM?) don’t engage in their “worship.” And the people who do aren’t likely to be part of the readership anyway.

  • Dr. Ronnie James, DO

    I found this other Deadspin piece on the Jeter ad remarkable:

    http://deadspin.com/that-derek-jeter-ad-will-make-you-cry-for-america-1636810518

    The guy who writes it normally posts funny video clips with little text, but he just destroys all the fawning media coverage and the way Gatorade and Jeter basically conned the media into unquestioningly amplifying an extremely dubious message. Plus it’s hilarious.

    • DocAmazing

      The crucial line in the piece:

      it shouldn’t be lost on anyone that this advertisement for Gatorade-branded products does express a very real and basic truth about Derek Jeter. He was an excellent ballplayer with a talent for doing exactly what his corporate sponsors told him to do.

  • Nobdy

    I think that being ready for the lady when she emerged from the shower without any discussion or finding out if she is into that shows a lot of hustle and heart, and makes me think Jeter is even more of a hero than I did yesterday.

    He may not have a lot of range or be doing much with his bat these days, but the hustle and heart are eternal!

  • Aimai

    Look–no heroes is an ok pursuit as a hobby. Chacun a son gout and all that. But “jeter has a sex life” hurr hurr is basically a ten year old boy’s take on the horrors of adulthood. Yes, Erik, grown ups Do that nasty stuff with other grownups. Did you not know that? They also fart and belch. Hope that clears things up for you. What that has to to do with de mythologizing jeter beyond me. Its a meaningless, childish, spiteful act to repeat the story no different in emotional or social content than the theft and publication of the celebrity nude pix by four chan. And the mras who did that explicitly did it to rob uppity women of their illusion of control over their bodies and image of their bodies. Your asserted goal is actually no different–they, too, claimed to be doing god’s work and helping society out by “devaluing” high status women and bringing needed correction to a society that grants unworthy women too much power, money, attention.

    Aside from the stupid prurient prudishness of the linked post what does the accusation have to do with anything? For fucks sake jerks worship jerks–adrian peterson and ray rice’s fans like these men more now that they have been revealed to be abusive. To the extent that jeter has fans they wont care about the sex act described. Its haut masculine to shit on your bed partner and send her home. It fits tight in with generic sports masculinity tropes so it doesnt tun counter to the jeter myth.

    I know you insist that you don’t care what your readers think–another transparently childish pose by the way–but for christs sake if your readers won’t tell you that this post is crap they are no true friends. The deadspin article on the gatorade ad was a better, more intelligent, way of criticizing the cult of jeter/sports/capitalism than “ohmygodgrownupshavesex!!!!.”

    • elm

      I agree entirely. This was a wrong-headed post to start with and the explanation hardly improves things (perhaps even makes it worse.)

      I don’t know if Erik is sincere when he says he doesn’t care what commenters say. he does attract some trollish behavior, so I can understand the stance as a defense mechanism. But I hope he at least is occasionally introspective when faced with criticism, especially when it comes from long-time, non-trollish commenters.

      Otherwise, what’s the point of posting on a blog with open comment threads? And then wading into the comment threads to respond to commenters wbout whose thoughts he claims not to care? If he really didn’t care what we thought, why not either pre-emptively close comments on all of his posts or just not read the comments to his posts?

      • I do find it a bit puzzling.

        Obviously, when matters are closer to taste, the I don’t care/skip the post is the obviously right response. And, of course, it’s always true so it can technically be mobilized at any time.

        But I’m pretty sure Erik doesn’t eschew critical engagement as a whole. Certainly this post seems to have some issues (the antihero project notwithstanding; after all, it’s basic that we can agree on the goal and critique the means; I presume Erik is on board with avoiding sexist attacks on eg Sarah Palin).

    • rapoli

      This is a 100% valid explanation of just how despicable the post is, moreso with the doubling-down update.

      So stick it if you don’t like it.

      OK, good to know.

      • Ronan

        Really ? Of course Erik’s explanation is bullshit, and the post is obviously ‘childish’ (spiteful is debatable), but do you really think this(relaying a semi plausible anecdote about a famous MALE sports star) is in any way comparable to stealing naked pictures of female celebs and posting them on 4 chan ?
        There’s a huge difference (socially, emotionally) between policing male and female sexuality, and the specifics of this case (a story passed on, more than likely, by the woman who slept with Jeter and obviously found his behaviour somewhat amusing and/or an example of his immense entitlement)is orders of magnitude less offensive than hacking into someones account and posting private pictures online.

        • Nobdy

          Is it more than likely that this story was passed on by a woman who slept with Jeter?

          It seems more like a juvenile story someone made up for funsies. There’s zero corroboration, it could have been invented by anyone.

          • Ronan

            fair enough, could be either or. still dont see it as comparable to the 4 chan thing

        • I think we can agree that there is no quantitative closeness between the cases. There is some qualitative similarity (though with important difference, e.g., that some bros might regard the described behavior as hero reinforcing).

          However, do these difference entail that we shouldn’t at least mildly oppose sex sharming (or pseudo sex shaming)?

          Also, I’m a bit concerned about how it plays into stereotypes about African-American male sexuality.

          If you follow the first link in that article, you’ll see a collection of sex based rumors about Jeter. Some of them seem better targeted (him cheering himself, for example).

          • Scott Lemieux

            The “Yeah Jeets” story is different because 1)it’s funny, and 2)not even all that critical of Jeter. This, on the other hand, just seems like pure puritanism — “someone likes something other than missionary position sex ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.” It’s the kind of thing Deadspin has generally moved beyond.

            • Nobdy

              Well it goes beyond that. Jeter comes off as an entitled jerk because he wants the sexual encounter to be one-sided and meet his fetish without any concern or interest in what she wants, or any real attempt at finding out. I’m the furthest thing in the world from a puritan, but this seems like pretty bad sexual manners from an entitled celebrijock, if true.

              • Ronan

                yeah it’s clearly the scenario, not the fact that he likes having his ‘asshole eaten’, that people are reacting too. and the idea that this is an unfortunate departure from deadspins usual high standards is bizzare.

              • brad

                “if true”
                If onesided accounts of purported sexual practices of celebrities by jilted claiming to be former partners can’t be used to fault the character of those celebrities, how else can we point out them feet of clay?
                You did yourself a disservice by clicking through to read.

              • Ok, the actual reported sequence is:

                1) Jeter and women meet and go back to his place
                2) They have PIV sex (“he bangs her”)
                3) She washes up
                4) He requests receptive anal-lingual sex (“essentially says ‘eat my asshole'”; The ‘essentially’ conceals a lot of possibilities.)
                5) She obliges
                6) He gives her a gift basket he has ready to hand, I presume, for such occasions (“gives her a classic gift basket”; apparently, this is part of the standard rumor set and not a new-to-me euphemism for “defecated on her” e.g.,
                “In the morning, he was gone when she woke up, but his assistant or someone gave her this gift bag full of expensive shit (like an iPod, designer sunglasses, etc.) and some high-end gift cards on her way out of his place, along with a note that said “thanks for a great night” or something along those lines. She said he was a perfect gentleman. Apparently, from what I’ve heard, this is a pretty regular thing. All his one-night stands get a goody bag.” (Note that this person is alleged to not be Jeter).)
                7) He has his driver take her home.

                So, 4 is clearly the place where the story attempts to denigrate Jeter (not 2, for example, which also has sexual content).

                In the story we also have a cartoon depicting step 4. For me, the cartoon pretty clearly signals that it’s the purported receptive anal sex that is the intended heart of the article.

                Now, in the fragment of text message we see, there’s no indication that 4 was itself unwelcome to the woman or in any way done in a horrible way (the “essentially” conceals a multitude of possibilities). That’s a pretty critical part of the story if we’re to believe that it’s intended to knock him as sexually selfish. It seems more likely that we are supposed to react with disgust at the activities themselves.

                (Note that in the earlier rumor, the gift basket thing is part of painting a picture of sexual considerateness, however unusual and sorta wrong. Again, sorta inconsistent with the story being about his jerkiness rather than his perferences.)

                Replace 4 with a request for post-coital fellatio, even with a bit of self-centerness. Does the story remain a big deal? Is it as myth busting? Is it a rumor a Jeter hater would really really want to be true?

                I mean, that version is just banal. The whole thing rests on the sexual activity itself.

                • I want to know if the gift basket contains Jeter collectibles. Giving a short-term sexual partner a bobblehead doll of one’s self is, frankly, what I expect from a career-long Yankee player.

                • At least one rumor says yes.

                  That Post article is interesting because it plays more the angle of an insensitive celejock. I think it makes it clear that the activity not the manner is doing the work in the Deadspin one.

                • Simultaneously banal and beyond parody. It’s a rare combination.

              • Scott Lemieux

                Well it goes beyond that. Jeter comes off as an entitled jerk because he wants the sexual encounter to be one-sided and meet his fetish without any concern or interest in what she wants, or any real attempt at finding out.

                1)This threadbare (and, let us be frank, possibly made up) story does not contain nearly enough information to make this assumption. Would he have refused to reciprocate? What did the “banging” session consist of? We have no idea.

                2)The salad tossing is the whole story. If he had requested a blow job rather than a rim job the chances of Deadspin publishing this story would be 0% even if every other fact was identical.

                • Brien Jackson

                  Plus, anyone who wants to know is well aware that Jeter has A LOT of one night stands. But I’m not aware of any account of him forcing someone to do something they weren’t willing to do or even just generally treating a partner badly which, in the age of Deadspin, you would think would be pure gold. Sure maybe the gift baskets are tacky, but I doubt he’s anything less than clear that he’s not interested in hanging around for brunch the next day.

                  I frankly think Erik’s subsequent explanation fails even harder than just linking the Deadspin piece for a laugh would. If you want to attack the Legend of Jeter, go after the fact that he never moved off of shortstop or batted in the bottom third of the lineup because he’s arrogant and it would hurt his brand. The idea that he’s less than heroic because he likes casual sex and has a few kinks can’t be reconciled with a sex-positive worldview.

          • Ronan

            Sure people can oppose sex shaming, but my impression would be that wasnt so much Erik’s intent. On the scale going from ‘Jeter’s a legend!’ to ‘Jeter’s disobeying Gods will’ Id assume Erik was somewhere in the middle (ie childish guffawing and thinking Jeter seems like a bit of an entitled ass) Whereas on something like the 4chan situation, there really is no scale to be on.

            I cant see (personally) what the problem is (but Ill admit Im probably not overly thoughtful here)
            Hell, if Erik wanted to launch into a tirade against ass eating Id read what he had to say.

            • Lee Rudolph

              thinking Jeter seems like a bit of an entitled ass

              Or rather, perhaps, that he seems to think his ass is a bit entitled?

    • brad

      Very well said. Ends and means and all that.

  • jeer9

    Is it beneath me? Nothing is beneath me. That should be perfectly clear in September 2014.

    I’d always thought that was Adam Sandler’s motto.

  • MikeJake

    On the other hand, it is also part of a larger project I think is important–which is to crush the idea of heroism

    This sounds like the sort of thing a 17 year old mall goth would say.

    • ChrisTS

      Yeah; I would like more discussion of this. The linking of the story is stupid and petty, but I am surprised by the apparent happiness of the crowd, here, with the purported aim.

      • brad

        Jeter’s ass, Achilles’ heel…
        I suspect it’s that the idea(l) of the heroic has been tied into the cult of the individual to produce the toxic result of ceo exceptionalism in our current moment, and it can be hard to see the components of that individually.

        • ChrisTS

          Hmm. But, Erik claimed that the very idea of heroism has never done any good for any society. That’s a long way beyond ‘worshiping other humans is bad/stupid’ + ‘our current myths about CEOs is bad for our society.’

          • brad

            Yeah, but let’s face it, EL was scrambling for cover for a less than shining moment, I’m trying to be more charitable to at least the underlying reception of his claimed motivation. As I’m sure you know, there’s a rich history of debate in philosophy alone about the nature and value of the heroic ideal. EL being overly simplistic and reductive and etc doesn’t mean there aren’t worthwhile questions to be asked about to what degree veneration really is worship and to what extent it’s a bad thing.

            • Let’s be clear–I wasn’t scrambling for cover. Again, I don’t care if people like it. So let’s not ascribe motives as to what I was doing without asking me.

              • brad

                By that phrasing I didn’t mean I was questioning your motivation, but that you’re now making a, to my mind, mostly failing attempt to put it in a better light. Whatever your end might be, you chose poor means.

            • ChrisTS

              Yes, the heroic ideal needs lots of analysis. But, this ain’t it.

      • Fortunately, Erik was not a hero to me, so I don’t have to destroy him per his stated reason for the post. Of course, this is asymptotically approaching Captain Kirk driving poorly-programmed computers insane with bad logic.

      • I think it’s quite simple:

        A fireman running into a building to save a child – hero

        John Kerry facing down a 50 cal to save his platoon – hero

        A guy who gets paid to play a children’s game well – most certainly not a hero.

    • Ronan

      this comment has cracked me up all day

  • Joe_JP

    Sports have some importance in culture so I’m not with those who find it pointless to care about it. The value of caring about let’s say television shows is shown on this blog. One former regular is really big on sci fi stuff (Charli Carpenter). etc.

    Jeter gets some hate here — see Scott’s potshots — but I respect him and his career overall. As Erik suggests, the problem is that it is taken to another level this year. We have had this farewell tour stuff with Mariano Rivera, but he is truly special elite in baseball. Jeter just isn’t quite at that level. At some point, enough.

    I didn’t see the ad cited though saw it called out on Twitter. Anyway, Jeter is like the disposal of the last Roman emperor. The 1990s heyday has been over for years, but this truly marks the end on some symbolic level. Still, enough!

    • I wonder if that’s why there’s so much nostalgia pent up in this retirement. This is the last chance to say goodbye to a team that was remarkably talented. And scientifically enhanced.

      • Brien Jackson

        I mean, who are we talking about here? If we’re talking about Yankee fans, then of course that’s what’s going on. You’re talking about the 5th or 6th best player in franchise history who was both the face of their most recent dynasty (one that it could be fair to say, to some extent, lasted all the way up to 2012) and the last remaining player from the resurgent 1996-2001 teams. And of course there’s a certain sadness for the passing of time anytime an “iconic” player is no longer a part of the game.

  • mikeSchilling

    A post about the Yankees, but nothing about their clubhouse and concession employees?

    • DocAmazing

      You don’t want a post about ass-eating to get anywhere near stadium food…

  • BTW, OT, FWIW…On the topic of heroism and not, go see “The Drop.” Great performances from Hardy and Rapace, and Gandolfini in what think was his last movie. It’s “Mystic River” turned inside out and does a nice job showing the milieu of the first 17 years of my life. (The dialog says Brooklyn, a street sign in the background says “Elmhurst Ave,” which is in Queens.)

    • Scott Lemieux

      Agreed, it’s terrific.

    • Barry Freed

      Thanks for the rec. I’ll check it out.

  • I was pleased to see you didn’t call for his head on a pike.

    Erik, I agree with you: statistically, Jeter is barely adequate for a team that won, what? Six rings in his tenure? He was surrounded by a slightly-above average team at every position (bar Mariano, who is the only legitimate farm-raised Yankee Hall of Famer since…?) but the secret to the Yankees winning was there were few weak spots in the entire line up, from first base to left field. Even the bench players in large part could have started for any other team in either league.

    You know who deserves to be enshrined in the HoF as emblematic of the late Steinbrenner Yankees? The physic, who somehow *winkwink* took a bunch of better-than-average players and made them into temporary Supermen.

    Including Jeter.

    Dibs on the band name.

    • Brien Jackson

      What are you talking about? Jeter was, for example, the best position player on the 1998 team at 6.2 fWAR, and there were only three other position players who were worth at least 3.5 wins. From 1996 to 2001 Jeter was second amongst all Yankees (to Bernie) in fWAR, and was worth over ten wins more than the next closest Yankee.

    • Scott Lemieux

      Jeter is barely adequate for a team

      Christ, this is ridiculous.

    • brad

      You know what helps opinions have validity?
      A connection to reality.

  • Manju

    Erik has influenced at least one child:

    http://m.mlb.com/video/?content_id=36418107&topic_id=6479266

  • mch

    What am I getting at?

    My redhaired son and his brown/black wonderful wife live in those Bronx. He’s a Red Sox fan, if anything, btw (he grew up in MA, so I forgive him).

    Eric, you need to get out more. That’s what I am saying. You especially do not get NYC.

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