Home / General / Love It Or Leav…Well, You May Not Live Here, But You Can See What I’m Driving At

Love It Or Leav…Well, You May Not Live Here, But You Can See What I’m Driving At

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Shorter Shmuel Rosner: I’m not saying that liberal Zionists should refrain from criticizing the military and foreign policies of the Israeli government.  I’m just saying that liberal Zionists should unconditionally support the military and foreign policies of the Israeli government, or they will lose their non-existent influence over Israeli policy.

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  • Aimai

    I think the shorter is “fuck off and die, you traitors.” Also, possibly “You can’t fire me! I Quit!” Well, those who the gods would destroy, they first drive mad” has a long pedigree. I guess we’ll get to see how it works out in practice.

    • AlanInSF

      I took it as, “Just shut up and send the money.”

  • IM

    I never understood why Haaretz of all places made that raving right-winger their american correspondent.

  • sharculese

    It’s very much a heads-I-win-tails-you-lose argument: Israel only has to care what American Jews say about Israel so long as American Jews refrain from saying what they really think about Israel.

  • Murc

    Hell, you have MK’s openly calling for Gideon Levy to be judicially murdered. Compared to that, Rosen is positively sedate.

    Also, this:

    If all Jews are a family, it would be natural for Israelis to expect the unconditional love of their non-Israeli Jewish kin.

    Is appalling. It represents a very fucked-up view of what being in a family should be like.

    • IM

      Oh come on, Jewish families never argue. Well known fact.

      • joe from Lowell

        Nuthin but net!

    • wjts

      If all Jews are a family, it would be natural for Israelis to expect the unconditional love of their non-Israeli Jewish kin.

      That is… certainly one kind of family, yes.

      • Hogan

        My mother, drunk or sober, as G. K. Chesterton would say. My job as her son is to make sure she has all the liquor she wants.

        • ChrisTS

          I would like to adopt you.

        • Lee Rudolph

          My mother, drunk or sober, as G. K. Chesterton would say.

          “If sober, to be made drunk; if drunk, to be kept drunk!”?

          I think Chesterton’s sense of meter won out over his sense of analogy, there. Or perhaps not.

          • Warren Terra

            I’m most familiar with Chesterton from his treacly sanctimonious godmogering stuff (eg Father Brown), so it’s good to remember he had a sense of fun.

            • KarenJo12

              The best comment on Chesterton is in Orwell’s “The Road to Wigan Pier.” “I know to much of slums to go to into Chestertonian raptures about them.”

      • AlanInSF

        Probably of all the things Jewish families are known for, “unconditional love” is right up there at the top. That’s why so few of us are neurotic.

        • cpinva

          “That’s why so few of us are neurotic.”

          is that what it’s called? I just thought it was me, living in deathly fear of disappointing my mother.

          screw him, and the ass he wobbled in on. if it wasn’t for the US, and American jews, Israel would have been snuffed out a long time ago. the arab countries can’t be total incompetents forever.

          • if it wasn’t for the US, and American jews, Israel would have been snuffed out learned how to do diplomacy a long time ago.

            Israel’s leadership isn’t completely stupid; if not for Uncle Sugar, they’d need to negotiate with neighboring countries and the non-Jewish Palestinians and would have most likely settled into something resembling prewar Lebanon by now.

            • cpinva

              true. however, that assumes the arabs/Palestinians would be smart enough to reconsider their hostility, after having gotten their collective asses kicked enough times. I remain unconvinced that the majority of them are.

              • Happy Jack

                It took a couple hundred years for the natives in the US to knuckle under. Anger makes some people irrational, I guess.

      • ExpatJK

        Also, note that this expectation is only one way. Can non-Israeli Jews expect unconditional love from Israeli Jews? Spoiler: no!

  • Reasonable 4ce

    Larison has some thoughts on this matter.

  • wengler

    I think the US has more Jewish people than Israel, so I could make the case that Israeli people that don’t support the US even when they don’t like its position are being horrible to the largest number of ‘non-Isreali Jewish kin’ in the world. But I don’t make this argument because the US and Israel are countries, not families. And countries do dumb shit worthy of denunciation all the time.

    Guilt is a hell of a motivator. But attempting to guilt non-Israelis into covering for terrible policy of their coreligionists half a world a way may not be as successful as Rosner thinks.

  • Alan Tomlinson

    I believe that the US version of this is:

    My Country, Right or Wrong

    Cheers,

    Alan Tomlinson

  • JL

    A more menacing “Love it or leave it” sentiment has been directed at Israel’s own antiwar left in the last few weeks.

    • Barry Freed

      The ongoing occupation and war are destroying Israeli society just as much as they are doing the same to Palestinian society albeit with far less loss of life. It’s frightening that it’s happening and even more frightening that they can’t see it happening, they can’t see what they are doing to themselves. Anything becomes possible.

      • cpinva

        “The ongoing occupation and war are destroying Israeli society just as much as they are doing the same to Palestinian society albeit with far less loss of life.”

        and so the analogy drawn, between the slave owning confederacy, and occupier Israel. when you are constantly under the stress, caused by the (legitimate) fear that your slaves/occupied territories might try and slit your throat in the middle of the night, you develop a well founded sense of paranoia, as a society.

        this was recognized early on, as a pathology of the slave colonies/states, by visitors from non-slave states/foreign countries, and it took only the faint rumor of a slave uprising to cause white southerners to go off the deep end. Israel has the very real rockets and suicide squads. they have two viable options, to rid themselves of the problem: level gaza and kill everyone in it (this has actually been suggested, how seriously I don’t know.), or come to grips with a two-state solution, removing the hard core settlers, or leaving them to their own devices, if they refuse to leave.

  • Davis

    Does he worry about what we non-Jewish Americans think? I remember well my joy at Israel’s success in 1967. A lot has changed since then, and so has my opinion.

  • joe from Lowell

    The unspoken part of this argument is the because: Israel doesn’t need the support of liberal American and European Jews (also known as “the large majority of American and European Jews,”) because it has the support of the American evangelical right.

    He doesn’t come right out and say it, but how else can he recognize that Israel depends on support from the American government, but not on the support of the group that was, for so long, its main base of support?

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