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Adult Tweets I Don’t Understand

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Exene Cervenka is, inter alia, a UCSB troofer. I’m not sure Jackie Susann meant it that way…

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  • Ronnie Pudding

    Those loud sounds you heard on campus? Just Mexican kids shooting fireworks below.

    • hickes01

      Too early, kids won’t show up until July.

    • BobS

      Dave Alvin wrote Fourth of July. One of the times I saw him was at the UAW LaborFest in Detroit many years ago. His political views seem to veer to the left.
      By the way, him and Phil are currently on tour with the Guilty Ones.

      • N__B

        I’ve been listening to Dave Alvin since the Blasters had a cameo in Streets of Fire.

        I’ve been around the world
        And every man bleeds the same
        But when the lights are dim
        You don’t remember my name…

    • Snarki, child of Loki

      Nah, not fireworks.

      It was the sonic booms from MH380 flying past.

  • Cheap Wino

    I’m really disappointed to read this. I love X.

    Excellent thread title, btw!

    • Kurzleg

      I love X too, but I’m not exactly surprised by this. She never struck me as a grounded, rational person.

      Then again, I never could figure out exactly what she added to X. I guess her vocal contributions made X a bit unique, but I can’t claim I always enjoyed those contributions.

      • howard

        to me, x’s greatest strength was its songwriting, and exene was the colyricist, so that was her value add (the guitar work of billy zoom being the second greatest strength).

        i personally enjoyed the vocal blend of exene and john doe, but de gustibus and all.

        i only saw them once – 7/4/81 at the channel in boston – and it was among the top 10 live shows of my life.

        • Cheap Wino

          i personally enjoyed the vocal blend of exene and john doe

          This. Combined with the excellent song writing they were great. I probably wouldn’t have liked her solo much though I’m a big fan of the girl who sung for X-Ray-Spex.

          • howard

            my original 45 of “oh bondage, up yours” is one of my most treasured possessions and it’s one of my favorite songs.

            and that would be marianne joan elliott-said, whom you and i knew as poly styrene, and who sadly passed away from cancer a few years ago (after, iirc, becoming a hare krishna).

            • Barry Freed

              One of my all-time favorite bands. That song never gets old. (also, I’m a cliche, and I’m a poseur).

              • Cheap Wino

                Germ Free Adolescents is a great album all the way through.

                • howard

                  agree with both of you, and for that matter, essential logic, the lora logic spinoff, was pretty cool too.

                • Barry Freed

                  I love Essential Logic. Also her other stuff with Red Krayola, The Raincoats, etc.

        • Kurzleg

          to me, x’s greatest strength was its songwriting, and exene was the colyricist, so that was her value add (the guitar work of billy zoom being the second greatest strength).

          Big oversight on my part re: lyrics. Truthfully, after Zoom’s work the lyrics were the thing that initially grabbed me.

        • Billy Zoom: right-wing nutball.

      • mark f

        Interesting. I don’t think I could enjoy a band if I didn’t like the singer.

        • Kurzleg

          As Howard says, there’s a lot going on besides that. Plus, John Doe has one of the great voices of his generation.

          • mark f

            I get that. I just mean that I probably couldn’t get past a voice I didn’t like as a listener, even if I recognized other aspects of the work that were great. It might be my own idiosyncratic way of hearing music, but since vocals in any work usually have an front & center role I guess I figured it was more common.

            • Dr Ronnie James, DO

              I’m the same way – it’s why I don’t like Neko Case (which is I’m guessing a hanging offense on this site) her voice just sets the hairs on the back of my neck up. Same with Billy Corgan.

              • Tyto

                Seconded on Billy Corgan. Like nails on a chalkboard.

              • Jon H

                You best not be in this county after sundown.

            • Kurzleg

              As I’ve noted elsewhere, it helps a great deal that John Doe is the other singer. I’ve always liked his voice.

        • Barry Freed

          I always thought Exene used her voice to very good effect. X was awesome.

          • If you stop thinking of her as a singer and more as someone who makes the vocal equivalent of screechy guitar sounds, her place in the band makes more sense.

            • Barry Freed

              Exactly. Kind of like Damo Suzuki in Can.

              • mark f

                FTR I actually like X. I was responding to the general idea.

              • I am afraid we have to disagree here. I have submitted for evidence this video of Paperhouse from 1972 with Suzuki on vocals.

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QLL2j8ZtxE

                • mark f

                  That’s the first time I’ve seen video of Can, I think, but I’ve always known it would be exactly like that.

            • Kurzleg

              I wouldn’t put it quite like that, but I would agree that her voice was often used as an additional instrument rather than a second vocal. This why I have such a hard time with songs where she did attempt to harmonize with John. She did the former pretty well but not the latter.

              • nixnutz

                I have to vote for the side that thinks the unique Doe/Cervenka approach to harmony is one of the main appeals of X. I can understand though why someone might like them for the lyrics or even just for Billy Zoom but in my estimation Exene is an equal partner.

        • MattT

          The great thing with X is the two really different voices together or having really different song writing styles. Looking at it, a bunch of my other favorite bands have that too (Mission of Burma, Sleater-Kinney,the Clash).

          • The huge variation in personalities in Mission of Burma is a big part of why I love them so much.

            On the other hand, I also love the Minutemen, who sometimes seem to have been operating as a single mind.

  • Exene has been saying crazy things for years now.

    • Ronnie Pudding

      Her other recent tweets are anti-GMO, criticizing CNN for thinking Michelle Obama can pass laws, and criticizing Barack for throwing around a baseball.

      I’m trying to get a read on where she’s coming from.

      • Crazytown. She’s coming from crazytown.

        • LoriK

          Yup, she was always a nut. IIRC Billy Zoom has said that his reaction on being introduced to her by John Doe was, “Shit, he’s going to want her to join the band….Oh great, she’s crazy too.”

          • Kurzleg

            I recall that as being Zoom’s response too. I always wondered how he managed to deal with that situation, especially since Zoom was a trained and accomplished musician while Exene was most certainly not.

        • mark f

          Yeah, check out her worst YouTube rant.

        • witless chum

          “I wonder what the political views of the band Crazytown are?”-wondered no one.

          • sharculese

            You mean you don’t read Shifty Shellshock’s blog?

          • ASV

            Butterflies for some, miniature American flags for others!

      • Los Angeles

      • wjts

        …criticizing Barack for throwing around a baseball.

        It was better before we voted for what’s-his-name.

  • howard

    Good grief, this is what exene has come to?

  • Barry Freed

    I’m gonna be sick, so sick.

    • Kurzleg

      +1

  • I love X but Exene has been crazy as shit for a while now. Billy Zoom was always a right-winger. Dunno about John Doe and probably don’t want to know.

    It’s unfortunately far too common for musicians (even great musicians who performed intelligent, thoughtful work) to be ignorant and paranoid. I think the personality types who tend to excel in the performing arts are prone to it, and hard living on the road and lots of drugs can’t help.

    • In lieu of an edit, one additional note: don’t get in a conversation about politics with a bunch of punk rockers if you don’t want to start spontaneously bleeding out of the part of your brain that understands things.

      • Turkle

        +1. I recently had a punk attempting to explain to me for 20 minutes that chemtrails were a thing because he had “read all the science” and was firmly convinced.

        • Karate Bearfighter

          Can somebody make “I Read All the Science” a thing? It should really be a thing.

          • Kurzleg

            Hasn’t Sarah Palin kinda sorta already done that?

          • Halloween Jack

            There was a Ben Affleck “Here comes the science” meme on Fark for a while, based on a shampoo commercial that he did in Japan.

    • Kurzleg

      I love X, and I think John Doe’s voice is one of the best of his generation, but there’s always something a bit off about him in his between-songs patter. I can’t put my finger on what that is, though it’s definitely not overtly political.

    • Cheap Wino

      On a side note, I’m loving that a total right-wing guy I work with — who once told me he truly believed Obama was sending the US down the path of destruction but, by his own admission, didn’t know how — discovered Pandora and has a station going that is heavy with Neil Young. He listens to Ohio blissfully ignorant.

      • howard

        wow, you can listen to ohio and not get the political perspecitive in it? that’s pretty impressive in its own way given that it’s right there in the first verse.

        • hickes01

          “Tin soldiers and Nixon coming…” Where’s the political message?

          • Malaclypse

            “Four dead in O-hi-o”

            • timb116

              Oh, cool, Limbaugh is back from a break.

              millions of people miss the meaning of that song on a daily basis

              • Manju

                Well, “Nixon coming” is ambiguous.

          • howard

            on the assumption that you’re asking this sincerely (and not being ironic), let’s carry on the rest of the first verse (from memory)

            “tin soldiers and nixon’s coming
            we’re finally on our own
            this summer i hear the drumming
            four dead in ohio.”

            • howard

              what the hell, second verse too (this time copied just to be sure i didn’t screw anything up):

              Gotta get down to it
              Soldiers are cutting us down
              Should have been done long ago.
              What if you knew her
              And found her dead on the ground
              How can you run when you know?

              • witless chum

                We’re all assuming shooting protesters is a bad thing and Neil doesn’t quite come out and say that.

                • Scott Lemieux

                  And, of course, Nixon was totally a liberal.

                • Malaclypse

                  Obama wants to shoot protestors, except he Won’t. Even. Try.

                • Hey, even Richard Nixon has soul.

            • hickes01

              Actually, I going for sarcasm. I totally agree the first line of the song is aggressively political. A point that is hard to miss. Unfortunately for me, sarcasm doesn’t always work in written form as there is no tell-tale voice inflection. Cheers.

        • A lot of people who have strong political opinions also lack any real comprehension of politics or history. This is one of those situations where both sides really do it, but at least left-wing crackpottery tends to be fairly isolated, while there’s major cable channels dedicated to the right-wing equivalent.

          • Cheap Wino

            Right. This guy watches Sarah Palin videos online so you can imagine comprehension is in short supply. It’s no surprise that he listens as Ohio whizzes right over his head but, hey, it is great music so everybody wins!

        • sharculese

          I didn’t get it right away, so depending on the dude’s age it totally makes sense to me. Yeah if you think about it ‘four dead in Ohio’ is obvious in its meaning, but if you’re young enough for Kent State to not be an immediate part of your consciousness, it’s not going to leap out at you.

          As for tin soldiers, I straight up had never heard that as slang for Guardsmen before I read Nixonland.

          • Cheap Wino

            He’s in his late 50’s. Probably the newest stuff that comes across on his Pandora station(s) is Pink Floyd. He probably grew up on that music, loves it, and just doesn’t bother to make connections.

            • Barry Freed

              A lot of right-wing white guys dig Jimi Hendrix even though he was black and sung about making out with dudes.

              • ‘Scuse me while I kiss this guy.

                • howard

                  the first of the three times i saw hendrix (ok, i’m bragging, i know) was at the electric factory in philly (spring ’69), a smallish club, and hendrix did actually sing it that way while pointing at noel redding (for all i know, he always did that: that was the only time i saw him do the song).

                • Barry Freed

                  Damn Howard, if we never meet some evening over a few beers there is no justice.

                • rea

                  Scuse me while I kiss this guy.

                  Right, and CCR sang, “There’s a bathroom on the right.”

                • Scott Lemieux

                  hendrix did actually sing it that way while pointing at noel redding

                  I think he could have done better both romantically and musically…

                • rea

                  And for that matter, when I saw Creedence, John Fogarty pointed to the men’s room at the right rear of the auditorium. But in neither case were those really the lyrics.

                • Origami Isopod, Commisar [sic] of Ideology for the Bolsheviks

                  @rea: And “Louie Louie” goes, in part, “I shot a wad into her hair.”

            • Mick Jagger

              He’s my age or older, so that means the Vietnam war would’ve had to have impinged on his consciousness in some way or another unless he lived outside of the USA, b-cause the draft would’ve affected male relatives or young men from families he knew, unless he grew up in a cave.

          • howard

            but ok, fair enough point, sharculese: if you didn’t get it right away (and i mean this sincerely) than there is a cultural distance that i hadn’t fully realized.

            i would assume that even if you didn’t know kent state, that reference of nixon on one side and “we’re finally on our own” in comparison would signify the cultural and political tumult of the late ’60s, but like i say, if someone as sharp as you didn’t get that, then i’m wrong in assuming it should be obvious.

            • sharculese

              Oh, I mean, I definitely got that it was a political song, and not a conservative one, but I didn’t make the connection to Kent State until it was pointed out, at which point it was like ‘oh, yeah, duh.’

            • A lot of people also just don’t listen to lyrics very carefully. (See: “Born In The USA”, Ronald Reagan, the use of for.)

        • NewishLawyer

          You would be surprised at how people can miss connections when they really want to or need to. Cognitive dissonance works wonders.

      • brad

        Well, as we all know, the song Rush opens his show with is by a drug fueled band featuring a single mother and about the environmental catastrophe that was the Cuyahoga river being able to catch fire, repeatedly.
        See also this gem.

      • keta

        It’s obviously a case of mondegreens.

        “For Dad in Ohio…”

        “Ten soldiers are coming to town…”

        Just don’t let him listen to Young’s Cinammon Girl because he won’t be a fan after Neil sings, “I want to live with a simian girl…”

        • Sly

          Southern Man better
          knead your bread
          Don’t forget what your
          Cook book says

      • njorl

        I had a right wing room-mate who hated organized labor and loved Pete Seeger.

        • Jon H

          Maybe your room-mate thought it was Bob Seger’s folk years.

          • Wouldn’t Bob Seger being from Detroit (Motor City) be suspiciously pro-Union (UAW) as well?

      • Many peoples’ politics and musical tastes are completely unrelated. I have known lots of right wingers that liked liberal hippy music. On the other hand there are plenty of liberals that like country and western music. Generally, people don’t listen to music for the lyrics and even fewer do for the political content of those lyrics.

        • Origami Isopod, Commisar [sic] of Ideology for the Bolsheviks

          C&W is all over the map politically tho. Sure, it’s “God Bless the USA,” but it’s also “Coal Miner’s Daughter” and “Man in Black.”

          • True, but so is rock to a certain extent. Ted Nugent, Rush, and Metallica are not leftists. But, generally people are not going to say they like the music of Hank Williams Jr., but don’t like the music of Willie Nelson because of their different politics. There just doesn’t seem to be a strong correlation for a lot of people. I like a lot of music with lefty lyrics.

        • Jon H

          Maybe people who become more conservative over time never update their musical tastes to match their new politics.

      • MikeJake

        Isn’t Ann Coulter a Deadhead?

        • Guggenheim Swirly

          Probably in more ways than one.

      • bassopotamus

        Right wingers rarely get the message in the music. When I was in college, a couple College Republicans showed up to counter protest a protest I was at by blasting “Rockin in the Free World” and Rage Against the Machine at us. FACEPALM

        • Just Dropping By

          Was it “Guerrilla Radio” they were playing? Because I can totally see that — the lyrics are more libertarian than socialist and it includes a dig at Al Gore.

    • brad

      Also, successful (which in punk terms X is/was wildly) musicians tend to become petty despots in convo. They’re the prettiest girl at the ball, everyone wants their time and attention and they’re rarely if ever challenged as they hold court.

      For the record, I’m not speaking out of any bitterness, this is just my theory as to why they tend to be such moronic blowhards.

      • nixnutz

        This is closely related to my theory of why pop lyrics generally suck; people get famous when they’re too young to have any interesting insights and by the time they learn anything their perspective is completely alien to normal human experience.

        • Origami Isopod, Commisar [sic] of Ideology for the Bolsheviks

          Eh, some pop lyrics are better than others. But if the goal is something you can dance to, cleverness of lyrics tends to be an afterthought.

        • howard

          well, i differ with you to this degree: i continue to listen to rock music (broadly defined, including hiphop) well past my sell-by date as a target market because the struggle to develop and define your identity and come to terms with being an adult is something young rock musicians do know something about.

          which is why there are a lot of good first albums (and even more good individual songs).

          what you say applies thereafter in my mind, which is why there are really, in the grand scheme of things, only a handful of bands that have produced more than 1 or 2 albums worth listening to regularly.

          • N__B

            which is why there are a lot of good first albums (and even more good individual songs).

            Your theory may be correct, but let me propose an alternate: every artist only has a set amount of material within themselves. Some have so much inside that they die before they run out of material. Some have so little that they become one-hit wonders. A fair number carefully hoard it and create a really good first album and then realize they’re done. And then there’s Axel Rose, who still hasn’t figured out he ran out material several decades back.

            • John Revolta

              Elvis Costello explained it this way: “You’ve got twenty years to write your first album and you’ve got six months to write your second one”.

        • Jon H

          It’s also why successful artists become terrible after they make it big. Based on their recent lived experience they’d be writing songs that would only resonate with residents of Malibu gated communities.

          • Jon H

            Some example songs:

            “Hey, You, Get Off Of My Beach”
            “Thirty Days On A Cleanse”
            “Your VIP Sticker Won’t Get You A Table At Spago Anymore”

    • Rob Patterson

      I did not know that Exene was a loon, and just spent 5 minutes on the Google trying to confirm that John Doe is not one as well. Hopefully not, couldn’t find anything.

  • Part of me suspects, or maybe wants to believe, this is a massive troll on her part.

    Part of me thinks she got rat poison in some of her smack one day.

    • Kurzleg

      I’d like to believe it’s trolling even if I believe she’s fully capable of actually believing this crap.

    • Rob Patterson

      Johnny hit and run Pauline’s brains. :-(

  • Kurzleg

    Cervanka will perform X’s first four albums in their entirety in July with the other three original members of the band at the Roxy in West Hollywood.

    Maybe Exene’s antics are just a publicity stunt (or performance art), though if it is it’s a pretty lousy one.

  • joe from Lowell

    Cervanka will perform X’s first four albums in their entirety in July with the other three original members of the band at the Roxy in West Hollywood.

    Oh, yeah?

    I’m thinking maybe she won’t.

  • Tehanu

    I too love X but I don’t want to know about their personal politics, it’ll just upset me. Billy Zoom is IMO the greatest rockabilly guitarist of all time; if he’s a rightwing loon, I don’t want to know about it. Looking at some of Exene’s lyrics from the early days, I think the anti-landlord, anti-social-expectations, anti-authority-in-general strain would account for whatever craziness is going on with her now … or maybe it’s the MS or whatever illness she’s got. Well, hell, I knew the Sixties were over when Dennis Hopper became the Grand Marshal of the Hollywood Christmas Parade, so if the Eighties are over now, I shouldn’t be surprised.

    • BobS

      MS dementia is relatively rare (approx 10%), although I wondered about that too.

    • Seitz

      Zoom is a Christian, but from interviews I’ve read, like this one, he comes off as pretty rational and not really super right wing or anything. Seems like a pretty thoughtful guy, actually.

  • Origami Isopod, Commisar [sic] of Ideology for the Bolsheviks

    Punk isn’t dead. It just got old and turned into a teabagger.

  • JL

    The main thing I’m learning from this thread is that people other than me have heard of and like X. Which is cool. I think I discovered them back in high school because I was a huge R.E.M fan and there were some old interviews with one or more of the band members where they said good things about X, but nobody else that I knew had ever heard of them.

    • howard

      jl, in that case, you need to track down penelope spheeris’ “decline of western civilization,” a sorta-real-time documentary of the la punk scene that produced x (and black flag, and germs, and fear, etc.).

      x and black flag are, for me, the two enduring bands of that early generation.

      • Barry Freed

        Great movie. And don’t forget Fear (even though Lee Ving is also a right-wing asshole, as far as I know).

        • Cheap Wino

          Seconded. Great movie.

          • FridayNext

            I would also recommend the follow up, The Metal Years. It makes a great double feature with This Is Spinal Tap. A drinking game we did college was to take a drink every time someone in Decline… says something seriously that they said sarcastically and satirically 4 years BEFORE that in Spinal Tap. That having been said the interview with Chris Holmes of W.A.S.P. in the spool with his mom is one of the saddest things you’ll see on film that doesn’t include someone actually dying.

            • FridayNext

              That would be “In the pool,” though I’d like to see someone “in the spool.” It sounds like a euphemism for being drunk at a garment factory.

        • Barry Freed

          And I see howard mentioned Fear. D’oh. The LA scene was great.

          • howard

            yes, but barry, i thought it would be churlish to point that out, so i let it go by!

      • James Gary

        “The mike, Darby. Pick up the mike!”

    • Just Dropping By

      X has the best song on the soundtrack for the X-Files movie, IMHO — “Crystal Ship”

  • Sly

    Cervenka’s own YouTube channel includes videos she produced that describe former President Bill Clinton and pop singer Miley Cyrus as “Illuminati finger puppets” and question the official account of the Boston Marathon bombing.

    OK, I get Bill Clinton as an “Illuminati finger puppet.” President of the United States. Highly influential voice in both domestic and international politics and political institutions. If such a thing existed, a secret society that controls the world, at least one worth a damn, would want someone like that as a dues-paying member. It’s still paranoid crazy, but I get it.

    But Miley Cyrus?

    Does Billy Ray know about this? Is he a member and is that how she got inducted into the club? Is that why Achy-Breaky Heart was so popular?

    We’re through the looking glass here, people.

    • Hogan

      Is that why Achy-Breaky Heart was so popular?

      It’s the only reason I can think of.

      • Scott Lemieux

        What happened to the guy who extensively defended the proposition that Billy Ray Cyrus totally cuts Gram Parsons? I assume he thinks Miley beats Billie Holliday too.

    • witless chum

      From 2001, a list of people David Icke says are really lizards:

      Bob Hope, George Bush, George Bush Jr, Ted Heath, the Rothschild family, Boxcar Willie, the Queen of England, the Queen Mother, Prince Philip, Kris Kristofferson, Al Gore and the steering committee of the Bilderberg Group.

      • njorl

        Al Gore is not a lizard. Lizards would want global warming due to their inability to regulate body temperature.

      • Matt T. in New Orleans

        Boxcar Willie?

        • Lee Rudolph

          According to this site, “Why did Boxcar Willie inspire the moving of the country music capital to Branson Missouri? To be close to the CIA mind control and drug operations based at Lampe Missouri.”

          • DrS

            Best explaination for Branson yet.

            (Btw, duck you auto correct. I spelled ‘explaination’ correctly, and you change it to ‘explain nation’.)

            • No, white people were pretty damn lame before Branson. All that shit is shut down nowadays, anyway, and Branson’s considered pretty dead. Reckon where the CIA is doing their middle-class brainwashing these days.

            • Thlayli

              Actually, you didn’t. It’s “explanation”.

    • UserGoogol

      Using pop culture as a way to corrupt the youth, presumably. Miley Cyrus is probably a particularly popular choice for conspiracy theorists because (1) her career is highly manufactured, so it’s easy to make the jump to “manufactured… by them” and (2) she’s been dabbling in “degeneracy” of late.

  • Matt T. in New Orleans

    That’s the nice thing about growing up a fan of predominately country radio. When’s childhood musical heroes say something moronically wingnutty, it honestly doesn’t come as much a shock or ruin my vision of what music’s supposed to stand for. Still wish Hank Jr. would shut his yap from here on out, though. Didn’t Mo Tucker go full-goose wingnut a couple years ago, too?

    • howard

      matt t., you remind me, and i believe that she did.

    • jim, some guy in iowa

      yeah, I wonder if country radio didn’t do the same thing for me. I’ve never been terribly surprised- disappointed, sure- when someone whose work I liked turned out to be a jerk for whatever reason

      always thought kurt cobain was tremendously stupid if he was really upset that the jocks he hated picked up on his music- once it gets into the airwaves, people are going to latch onto it for their own reasons, not his

  • hickes01

    I can’t image she wrote “The New World”. As least I hope not.

  • djw

    Ugh. Reminds me of Moe Tucker showing up at a Tea Party Rally, spouting boilerplate winger nonsense.

    • mark f

      But if you close the door, the night could last forever.

    • BobS

      That’s fucking disappointing, even more so than Exene Cervenka’s batshit crazy ideas. I think I Spent a Week There the Other Night is one of the best albums of the nineties and among the best post-Velvet Underground albums. I knew the story of her being a divorced mom working at a WalMart before she enjoyed her new success and I actually thought about her when I was reading Nickel and Dimed- I guess because of that I’ve imagined her political views to be more like Barbara Ehrenreich than Sarah Palin.

  • witless chum

    I still enjoy “Fred Bear” despite essentially everything else Ted Nugent has done in his whole life. This seems like small potatoes.

  • pseudalicious

    Exene, noooo! Le sigh. Wait, does this mean I can come out and admit that Johnny Hit & Run Pauline and Los Angeles bug me as a feminist even though I can’t articulate why? Okay, I said it.

  • Purely anecdotal, but if I went down the list of all the people who used to go to punk shows with, I’d say that to a person, if they went to college they are currently a left-winger. If they didn’t, they are on the right. It’s what happens to people with anger at “the system” who don’t have the tools to understand it.

    • howard

      that’s an excellent point: i often note that objectively, a 65-year-old white guy without a college degree has had a pretty hard time of it for…ever, and is right to be angry.

      it’s just that too many of them are angry at the wrong people because, as you say, they don’t have a framework within which to understand.

      one of my favorite punk tunes remains d.o.a.’s “(you got to know who) the enemy (is).”

      • I saw DOA play way after their prime at the Press Club in Sacramento.

        • Warren Terra

          Hey, Otto, this is completely off-topic, but relevant to your interests; have you seen this?

      • Joey Shithead (worst stage never ever) is one of the great left-wing punks.

        • Barry Freed

          Beat me to it! But I’ll say it again just for effect: Joey Shithead.

    • nixnutz

      Yeah, that hasn’t been my experience at all. Very few of my friends that I went to shows with went to college and none of them became right-wingers. Many of them have remained active and committed to progressive issues to this day.

      But then I’m from Boston and I don’t know anyone who’s moved significantly rightward unless they’re a pro-Israel Islamophobe.

      Again that’s just anecdotal but it’s dozens of people.

  • Dr Ronnie James, DO

    Do I come here for Scott’s singing?

    • Lee Rudolph

      Everyone does. But they stay for Eric’s pictures of beautiful, innocent, dead creatures.

      • Barry Freed

        What did they ever do to you?

        You working on circles these days, Lee?

  • calling all toasters

    I love X, but… no, wait, X sucked.

    • Scott Lemieux

      UNFOLLOW.

      • calling all toasters

        Is it because I used a comma instead of a colon after “wait”? Mea culpa.

        • Jon H

          No, you used a lot of colon.

      • Maybe he’s talking about the Australian butt-rock band X (they sound sort of like Rose Tattoo but without a memorable singer like Angry Anderson or Bon Scott).

        • MattT

          Their first record had some decent proto-punk stuff. It was no Radio Birdman, but it had its moments. I was warned off all their other stuff by enough people that I never bothered checking it ou.

  • NewishLawyer

    Say it ain’t so.

    As a former theatre artist, I would say that there is a fine line sometimes to often between being an artist/creative soul and being attracted to some really out there ideas. There is a long history of artists being attracted to extremes on the left and right politically. DH Lawrence was pretty much a fascist. Orwell might be the best example of an artist who was able to see extremes for what they were.

    The point about punk rockers being attracted to the far left and far right is also a good one given the general outside nature of punk.

    Basically if you want your artists to be 100 percent sound politically, you are going to end up with very few artists to appreciate.

    • Mick Jagger

      And I think it works the other way around, if you have strong political opinions and are a bit of a ham, you can do well in the talking-head thing on the TeeVee. For example, it’s easy to see Ann Coulter as one of the bitchier women in Claire Booth Luces’ “The Women”, or Keith Olbermann as a crusading newspaper publisher in a movie set in the 1950s.

      Gore Vidal never took an acting lesson in his life, but undoubtedly the speeches he heard on the floor of the Senate including those of his grandfather gave him an insight into performing that came in handy when he wrote for stage, TV and movies and later did a little of the acting bit himself. Lawrence O’Donnell has stated that he does what he does because he’d starve if he tried to make his living as an actor.

      • The Dark Avenger

        That was me, BTW. Mick was just over here on a day trip.

  • Halloween Jack

    Her phone’s off the hook, but she’s not.

  • UserGoogol

    There’s something almost reassuring about people who claim this is a hoax to take away our guns. The whole MRA misogyny angle is a troubling tendency that I’m afraid may grow as a movement, so it’s nice to see people ignoring that and focusing on classic conspiracy theories about Obama the gun-grabber.

  • Tristan

    At the risk of some musicbros jumping down my throat, the word ‘icon’ is doing so much work in that headline it should get a pension package.

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