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More Guns Please!

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If there’s one thing this country needs, it is more guns in our schools. Nothing bad will ever happen!!

According to KMGH-TV, a school employee who also has a second job as a security officer had offered a student a ride home at the end of the day. The gun discharged, hitting the student in the leg, when the school employee tried to secure his weapon in the glove box of the car.

The man took the student to a nearby hospital, where he was rushed into surgery with a “significant injury,” police said. The injuries were not expected to be fatal.

That this happened in Aurora, Colorado is even more depressing.

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  • JKTHs

    The only way to stop a good guy with a gun that accidentally discharges is with a bad guy with a gun that accidentally discharges.

    • Haystack

      If the kid had a gun he could have blown the security guard away and driven himself to the hospital. And if the medical staff had guns they’d be ready in case the kid tries to shoot up the emergency ward.

      • EH

        I’ll be surprised if it doesn’t turn out that the guy gave the kid the gun to play with.

  • Warren Terra

    The only thing that can stop a bad security guard with a gun is a good student with a gun. Arm the kids! At least those with good grades!

    • Snarki, child of Loki

      Good plan. The kids with good grades get guns. The ones with bad grades get pressure-cookers.

      • DrDick

        I thought the ones with bad grades were pressure cookers?

        • In my world, the good students were the pressure cookers because they were expected to scholarship to college.

  • medrawt

    I wonder if, instead of lobbying for the unrestrained ownership of guns, the NRA instead devoted as much effort and advertising and outreach to try and drill into people’s minds proper gun safety protocols … how close could we come to eradicating incidents like this, or the recently reported incidents where children harmed themselves or others after picking up a nearby loaded weapon?

    • Cody

      If they tried that, they wouldn’t have any funding.

      So none probably.

    • DrDick

      Given the numbers of similar accidents in the military, probably not a lot.

      • Murc

        Something I found out recently is that the military doesn’t even like it’s own guys wandering around base armed unless they have a damn good reason. You get back from patrol, you safe your weapons and check them back into the armory. If you’re wandering around in full kit, you had better be assigned to the perimeter or expecting imminent.

        I was pleasantly surprised when I learned this, and I’ve used it to great effect in arguments.

        • TribalistMeathead

          And if you guessed that wingnuts use Nidal Hasan as evidence that this policy should be rescinded, you’re right!

        • It makes sense from a number of angles, including the darkly cynical “Reduces chances of armed insurrection.”

          Also not surprising – The vast number of GIJerkoffs who aren’t aware of this policy because they’d rather shoot themselves in both feet than go anywhere near any organization that might expose them to personal harm.

          I’ve been seen this webad for a gun that rhymes with Sock (to prevent seeing the webad here) that seems to suggest soldiers walk around not just armed, but with a round chambered. Has anyone else seen it?

          • Ann Outhouse

            No reason not to say it – Glock! Make those assholes fork over some ad money to a pro-gun-control site.

            Also worth nothing: Glocks don’t have a true safety. Their double trigger is a joke.

            From Wikipedia:

            The three safety mechanisms are automatically disengaged one after the other when the trigger is squeezed

            Anyone else see a problem here?

            Anyone who carries a Glock with a round in the chamber is an accidental discharge waiting to happen. And it’s the most popular brand in the US.

            • matt

              This displays a pretty total lack of understanding of how the gun works

              • Ann Outhouse

                That’s how Glocks work. You pull the trigger, and if there’s a round in the chamber, they fire.

                That’s why there’s an aftermarket for Glock trigger guards, because the “safety” trigger is bullshit.

              • joe from Lowell

                No, Amani Toomer shooting himself in the thigh while playing with the trigger of his Glock displays a pretty total lack of understanding of the how the gun works.

                Because, you see, the gun works exactly as Ms. Outhouse explains. You squeeze the trigger a little, and the safety disengages.

                • joe from Lowell

                  D’oh! Plaxico Burress.

                  Meh. All Giants and former Giants have it coming.

            • Well, no that isn’t a problem. I think people get confused because safety conjures images of some sort of switch. Glocks (fine) have a safety mechanisms, they just have something different. You have to work to fire one and even harder if the round isn’t chambered.

              • Ann Outhouse

                You have to “work” at it? You stick your index finger in the there and squeeze, just like any other gun. It doesn’t even have a particularly heavy trigger pull.

            • Never liked Glocks.

              Partly for that reason and partly because I just don’t like plastic guns. Call me old fashioned.

    • NonyNony

      if, instead of lobbying for the unrestrained ownership of guns, the NRA instead devoted as much effort and advertising and outreach to try and drill into people’s minds proper gun safety protocols

      Well for starters, if you actually know how dangerous guns are you have a tendency to only have a few and keep them safely locked up – only taking them out when you’re going to go target shooting or hunting.

      That isn’t going to sell guns and it certainly isn’t going to sell bullets. So I’m not sure why the lobbying arm for the gun industry would be interested in doing things like that. It’s in their best interest to have gun buyers who have it as a religious tenet that a gun will only ever hurt people the person holding the gun intends to get hurt. “Keep THREE fully loaded in your bedroom nightstand and FIVE in your kid’s closet, just in case!”

    • anthrofred

      True, they don’t put money into advertising campaigns for the general public, but the NRA does run a number of gun safety programs.

      The problem strikes me as psychological and an issue of mixed messages – guns give people an feeling of control, power, and protection, which lends the more macho among the population to disregard safety concerns. I think the NRA’s fevered campaigns of late with reference to things like Agenda 21 and national registries are thus linked to lack of gun safety in a way beyond funding diversion, in that they further exaggerate the ideas of risk to individuals from others / guns as the only means of protection, feeding reckless behavior.

      • medrawt

        Yeah … part of why this particular “what if” interests me is that the recent spate of widely reported incidents with accidental discharges is largely unconnected to any gun control proposals that were being taken as serious possibilities, but they undercut the image of the “responsible gun owner” whose rights are being infringed, because these people don’t seem very responsible. I myself am not opposed to the idea that private citizens can own certain types of guns (I’m more at ease with hunting rifles than pistols), but although I fired rifles on several occasions as a kid I’ve never been responsible for a gun’s safety beyond having a trusted adult hand it to me and being careful about where I pointed the barrel.

        What troubles me is that the flipside of the point that it’s crazy to not control gun ownership more tightly (or at least as tightly!) as we control vehicular licensing is that we seem to have settled on a tolerance for irresponsible driving that could probably be a lot lower. I don’t have the stats on the immediate causes of vehicular accidents, but anecdotally there’s a lot of obviously reckless driving going on; most of it doesn’t cause any harm because other drivers are able to make defensive adjustments unavailable to, say, a kid in the passenger seat next to a guy trying to put his gun in the glove box. But I think it was this blog which pointed out some time ago that “jaywalking” was actually coined as part of a PR push to change the public attitude towards cars hitting pedestrians, and thereby elevating our tolerance for the idea that, yeah, those things happen. [Worldly shrug]

        • Cody

          But I think it was this blog which pointed out some time ago that “jaywalking” was actually coined as part of a PR push to change the public attitude towards cars hitting pedestrians

          I would love to read about this. Does someone have a good link? I’ve often wondered about the point, as according to most laws around here pedestrians ALWAYS have the right-of-way.

          Of course there are incidents where people just walk in front of a car with no chance to react, but I think those are exceedingly uncommon.

      • …guns give certain very insecure people who think they can buy personal validation an feeling of control, power, and protection, which lends the more macho among the population to disregard safety concerns.

        Fxd.

        Sorry, one of the many things that sucks about the debate is this really isn’t Gun Owners v. Non-Gun Owners.

        This is Gun Manufactures Using Fucked up People as Proxies vs. Sane People. But anyone who gets those feelings from anything external is already less than 100% happy. You get it from something made to kill human beings and you got problems, son.

        • anthrofred

          True, but so many facets of American culture (from the market to politics) are about manufacturing insecurity. I don’t think it does anyone a favor to label scared gun owners “fucked up”, as frightening as they may be. There’s psychology at work, but it’s social psychology.

        • medrawt

          I agree, but I think this oversimplifies somewhat in that I suspect gun ownership changes people who otherwise wouldn’t fit the profile of someone looking for validation and control from gun ownership. I don’t feel the desire or need to carry a gun, but the reason I intellectually don’t *want* to carry a gun is that I think I wouldn’t like the version of me that did so. I think about the story of the guy who confronted some young men in a car at a gas station because their music was “too loud,” and wound up firing into the vehicle when he said he saw one of them raising a gun to him. I would probably be annoyed by loud music too, but I’m very practiced at letting that sort of thing just wash over me. And yet I can easily imagine the version of myself with a gun on my belt short-circuiting the process of telling myself it doesn’t really matter, and feeling more confident to create a situation in which I then felt threatened enough to pull the gun, because … I have a gun, so why not? I can afford to be a little bolder, right? I bet everyone else is bothered, too, someone should speak up …

          • anthrofred

            Yes. To paraphrase (and somewhat oversimplify) Bruno Latour: Guns don’t kill people, and people don’t kill people; people with guns kill people.

            * One could substitute “people with knives”, as gun advocates are wont to do, but knives have very different material properties and symbolic value than guns.

            • BigHank53

              Not to mention that reaching into a car to stab somebody because their music is too loud turns into a really bad idea when they roll the window up. And then call the cops.

    • bluefoot

      Isn’t this what they used to do? I seem to remember way back when the NRA was a go-to resource for gun safety and training. Nowadays, not so much…

      • JKTHs

        It is still about gun safety, just not the definition you’d think.

        • As in gun safety mechanisms hinder my ability to express my 2d Am. rights.

          OK, not that bad. Yet.

          • JKTHs

            I was thinking more about keeping yourself safe by stashing guns in your kids’ rooms. Or keeping the world safe for gun manufacturers.

      • cpinva

        “Isn’t this what they used to do? I seem to remember way back when the NRA was a go-to resource for gun safety and training.”

        you recall correctly. when I was a kid, the NRA was the gun safety group, almost fanatically devoted to it. if there was a gun safety class, an NRA trained instructor was probably teaching it. they were the guys that rifle ranges used to certify that their range was “safe”. if you went to an NRA certified range, you weren’t going to run into Rambo, jr., because he’d have been tossed out on his ass.

        I don’t even recognize the current iteration of the NRA.

        • anthrofred

          I often wonder why another gun owners’ group hasn’t popped up as an alternative to the NRA. I know enough gun owners myself who think the NRA is off its rocker to support one. It’d be nice to have an organization that could give politicians cover for at least the most basic of regulations.

          • NonyNony

            There’s no money in it.

            Where’s the money in advocating for moderate regulation of guns? There’s money to be had in advocating for “don’t tread on me” gun-nuttery – the gun industry alone pumps money into the NRA for that purpose, and the gun nut donations are gravy on top of that. There’s money in advocating for restrictive gun laws, if not nearly as much – I suspect that Bloomberg may start up a lobbying group here in the near future for that purpose.

            But who is going to fund a large-scale “we’d like some regulation but not too much regulation” lobbying effort? Lobbying doesn’t work that way – you take an extreme position and you push it. Moderation happens when the extreme on the other end pushes back and the legislation ends up being something in the middle.

            We’re a very binary culture in some ways. It isn’t healthy – I wish our political system didn’t reward that kind of binary thinking as heavily as it does.

            (Of course if one side essentially gives up on an issue and there’s no pushback, you get what we’ve got today with gun regulation.)

      • LittlePig

        Yes, it was what they used to do. Their instructor course was (and I assume, is, if any non-crazy vestige still remains) both a booger-bear and an amazing course of study.

        But like all things (Thanks Powell Memorandum!), paleocons have taken over to keep the marching morons stirred up. Fear and hate win elections for the GOP, and that is all they care about it. Without the insane reality bubble of the Right’s useful idiots, the country might have dodged its decent into Corpocracy. Can’t have that happen, bad for business, you know.

    • “I wonder if, instead of lobbying for the unrestrained ownership of guns, the NRA instead devoted as much effort and advertising and outreach to try and drill into people’s minds proper gun safety protocol”

      This was a big point in Dan Baum’s recent “Gun Guys” book (http://www.amazon.com/Gun-Guys-A-Road-Trip/dp/0307595412). Toward the end, he visits NRA headquarters and talks to one of the five people who work on training and safety. They didn’t even know how many worked in the lobbying shop, but it was hundreds at a minimum.

  • Trollhattan

    That’ll learn that little moocher to provide his own transportation in the future, and not parasitize the producer.

    Or is this a plea for bulletproof glove boxes?

    • Warren Terra

      He’s learned his lesson, and henceforth shall hop to school on his one good leg.

    • Michael H Schneider

      HIS own transportation? I looked in the original story for sime indication of the students’ gender, and couldn’t find it.

      My first thought was ‘why is a middle aged male police officer who is moonlighting as security giving a ride to a student?’ And then I remembered that a lot of authoritarian police type males seem to be attracted to high school age girls.

      It would be iresponsible not to speculate.

      • JKTHs

        The man took the student to a nearby hospital, where he was rushed into surgery with a “significant injury,”

        • Michael H Schneider

          I’m not going to let “facts” get in the way of an attractive conclusion. That was probably a typo, it should have said “she”

      • wjts

        “The man took the student to a nearby hospital, where HE was rushed into surgery with a ‘significant injury,’ police said.”

        • wengler

          The English language can be really stupid sometimes.

    • anthrofred

      This will only work if they agree to a ban on glovebox-piercing bullets.

      • Cody

        Luckily it wasn’t a high explosive pistol round? (Do they make those legally? Probably should! It’s my 2nd Am. right damnit!)

  • LeftWingFox

    David Waldman has been compiling a “Gunfail” weekly hit-list of accidental shootings. Depressing, but necessary.

    http://www.dailykos.com/news/GunFail

    • joe from Lowell

      “…a potential Idiot Hall of Fame entry involving the Florida man (of course) who tried to convert his BB gun to .40-caliber using nothing but household tape and American Exceptionalism.

      Awesome.

  • jimintampa

    Anybody know wassup at FireDogLake? DoS attack or unpaid electric bill? Inquiring minds yadda yadda yadda.

    • Lee Rudolph

      Server disk failure, I am informed.

      • Trollhattan

        Only two days to basset Thursday, so they’d best get cracking.

      • LittlePig

        Ahhh, thank you. I’ve been looking for that answer for a couple of days now.

  • Dana

    Ah, but all the rent-a-cops of the world are well prepared for the mass shooting the vast majority of them will never face. So what if a few hundred kids die of accidental gun shots between now and then? The children must pay that price so that gun nuts will feel confident they won’t lose the liberties they aren’t really in any danger of losing.

    • Malaclypse

      Ah, but all the rent-a-cops of the world are well prepared for the mass shooting the vast majority of them will never face.

      Long ago, I worked night shift at a cheap motel. Given that the place was an armed robbery waiting to happen, the company periodically hired a rent-a-cop company to have an overnight guard. Luckily, this company did not allow armed guards. The guards came in two varieties: 1) old dudes that could not afford to retire. These guys were okay. 2) young dudes, who failed the psych tests to become cops. These guys were not okay, as many of them would bring non-gun weapons (one had a medieval mace, one had throwing stars, you get the idea) and they all had fantasies that they wanted to discuss about what they would do, in the robbery attempt they were hoping for. I had dozens of variants on this scene over the years:

      GUARD: Man, I hope someone tries something. I am gonna FUCK THEM UP!
      ME: You know what will never ever happen after a robbery that you risk both of out lives to try and stop?
      Guard: Huh?
      Me: The company will never give either of us a penny of the money you risked our lives for.
      Guard: Huh?
      Me: Want to know what we should do if there is a robbery?
      Guard: I got a [silly, silly weapon].
      Me: Cool. And if anybody ever robs us, you keep that to yourself. In the meantime, I’m giving them the cash drawer. Then I’m telling them where the safe keys are, and helping them open it. And if they want, I’m opening up the liquor cabinets in the bar. That’s what we do.
      Guard: You’re a pussy, dude.
      Me: Cool. Here’s a room key. It has a bed, it has cable, it has porn. You stay there, and I’ll call you if I need you. Otherwise, see you in the morning.
      Guard: Okay.

      • Slocum

        “…medieval mace, one had throwing stars…”
        This story made my night. If you already have psych problems and really, really want to be cop it must only make those problems worse when you don’t get to be a cop because your psych problems are so bad you fail the exam.

        • Malaclypse

          To be fair, they all – every one of them – said they were unable to be cops/soldiers because of affirmative action. And yes, that means that all of the young rent-a-cops were white.

      • BigHank53

        I am reminded of advice I was given about muggings:

        1. Take your wallet out of your pocket slowly.
        2. Take all your cash out of your wallet.
        3. Drop it on the ground.
        4. Run like hell.

      • Hogan

        Wiggum: All right, you scrawny beanpoles: becoming a cop is _not_ something that happens overnight. It takes one solid weekend of training to get that badge.

        Man: Forget about the badge! When do we get the freakin’ guns?!

        Wiggum: Hey, I told you, you don’t get your gun until you tell me your name.

        Man: I’ve had it up to here with your “rules”!

  • Just Dropping By

    That this happened in Aurora, Colorado is even more depressing.

    I was going to say that Aurora, Colorado can’t get more depressing, but then I remembered Commerce City, Colorado.

  • wengler

    Let’s think about this for a minute. We will assume that the facts presented are accurate and it leads us to imply a couple of facts.

    1) The handgun had a round in the chamber(if it wasn’t a revolver, which it very likely wasn’t).

    2) The safety was off.

    What sort of mentality do you have to have to think you are going to have to pull on someone at a school or as a security guard and not have a time to load the chamber and depress the safety? Gun licensing needs to happen, if only to shake out those that think present-day US is the fictional wild west of the ’50s.

    • This. Exactly.

      No one who knows about guns (real ones, not the action movie ones) would feel comfortable carrying a weapon like this. It takes the same level of idiocy that would cause a person to poke around in a garbage disposal while flicking the switch.

    • Cody

      That, or we can just turn the present-day US into the fictional wild west of the 50s!

      Seems a lot easier. Already have corporations controlling the government and rapidly expanding gap in income equality…

    • Ann Outhouse

      These guys all think they’re going to quick-draw and get the drop on the bad guys.

      See also my rant above about Glocks, the Accidental Shooter’s sidearm of choice.

    • David Hunt

      As to point 2, the safety could have been defective instead of simply off. I leave it to the reader to decide if that’s better or worse…

    • ajay

      What sort of mentality do you have to have to think you are going to have to pull on someone at a school or as a security guard and not have a time to load the chamber and depress the safety?

      Just for a point of comparison, SOP for patrolling in a vehicle in Kabul is weapon loaded, chamber empty, safety on. The action of putting a round in the chamber is itself a powerful deterrent.

  • Remember the good old days, when all a school district had to worry about when an adult drove a child home was a little fondling?

    • joe from Lowell

      Oh, that’s grim.

      +1

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