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Foreign Entanglements: Mali, Don’t Ya Know

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On the latest Foreign Entanglements Laura Seay and I talk Mali:

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  • Keaaukane

    Why not Ghana?

  • Barry Freed

    This is unbelievably tragic:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/28/mali-timbuktu-library-ancient-manuscripts

    I hope something survived. Even more I really hope they cataloged it.

    • Winchester

      John Protevi would say that comment is quasi-racist.

      The torching of Timbuktu manuscript library by islamic supremacists was an act of islamic piety.

      Remember, caliph Umar allegedly said, while ordering the library of Alexandria to be burned:

      “If the books agree with the Qur’an, they are superfluous. If they disagree with it, they are heretical.”

      • Gandalf

        It”s not “Islamic supremists” It’s members of a particular ect of Islam, the Wahhabis, who have lots of money due to their connection with the Saudi royal house, but who otehrwise don’t get along with most of the followers of Islam in the world . . .

        And of course, there have been plenty of Christians who did similar things (Google “iconoclasm”) including the Puritans who were instrumental in founding the US.

        • Winchester

          Wahabism is a revivalism. Cf the difference between salafism and wahabism. The jihadists we see in Mali are Salafists, like al-Qaeda.

          As per iconoclasm in Christianity: Iconophily WON the battle. Iconoclasm is an evil heresy.

          • rea

            Salafism is just a more polite word for Wahhabism–they don’t like being called after Muhammad ibn Abd-al-Wahhab for more or less the same reasons they don’t like monuments.

            • Winchester

              So it’s not; ain’t the same at all.

              Cf. the etymology of the word salafi.

              Wahabism is a doctrine held and sponsored now by the House of Saud, inspired by Mister Wahab. Docrine says that there will be a revival of islam at the end of each century to come.

          • Lurker

            Iconophily won the battle in the Catholic church (including both the Eastern Orthodox and Roman). However, it has never been completely trampled out, and after Zwingli and Calvin, it has had a prominent following in the Reformed and Baptist churches.

            • Malaclypse

              Yes, but Dagney/Winchester labors under the belief that his particular beliefs about the Imaginary Sky Wizard are OBJECTIVE TRUTH. Because Foucault.

        • Winchester

          Besides, that incident largely preceeds wahabism. It has occurred in any nation that islam has triumphed by way of the sword, where sites were destroyed and razed to the ground, whether it is in Mali, Afghanistan, the Maldives, Egypt, Pakistan, Bangladesh, The Byzantine Empire, etc.

      • Barry Freed

        The quote, and action, attributed to Umar is false. Furthermore the library of Alexandria was long gone by the time the Muslims conquered Egypt. Bernard Lewis, of all people (one of the least sympathetic scholars to Islam) comprehensively refuted it in his “The Arab destruction of the Library of Alexandria: Anatomy of a myth.”

        • witless chum

          Nobody knows exactly what happened to the classical great library.

          It is variously claimed by ancient sources have been destroyed accidentally in the 200s by the Romans putting down an Egyptian revolt, accidentally by Julius Caesar in 48 BC, on purpose in 391 by the local Christian authorities, on purpose in 393 by an anti-Arian Christian mob and, lastly, in 642 by a Muslim army on the orders of the Caliph.

          If only we could somehow puzzle out why a 21st century moron chose one of the alleged destructions to be upset about in 2013. Let’s put a team of monkeys to work around the clock on this one.

          • rea

            Plutarch said Caesar burned it, and he was writing well before Mohammed was even born.

      • John Protevi would say that comment is quasi-racist.

        Watching a conservative try to play a race card is like watching a monkey that’s gotten ahold a field researcher’s cell phone. The little dear is doing its best to imitate her actions and gestures, but it just doesn’t work.

        John Proveti would not say any such thing. You just can’t understand him.

  • DocAmazing

    That is the winning hat.

  • Winch

    –The French in Mali are now being shot at by islamists with with the very same weapons that France airdropped into Libya. Either those or the weapons that France sold to Gaddafi.

    Between Somalia and Nigeria, Salafis jihadis has a huge presence in Africa. But Mali is its biggest footprint yet.

    • Isn’t it more likely that most of the weapons used by former Ghadaffi mercenaries are Soviet-made? As it turns out, LIbya has a history that goes back further than the Bush administration, and for almost all of the Ghadaffi era, it was a Soviet client.

      Ghadaffi’s weapons have been killing Africans to Libya’s south for decades. Ask the people of Sierra Leone or Liberia.

      Inshallah, this will be the last chapter of that ugly story.

  • Winchester

    Al Qeada is alive and well !!

    • Uncle Kvetch

      Needs moar Deleuze.

      • Malacylpse

        The lack of any reference to Habermas is evidence of the all-pervasiveness of Habermas’ thought.

  • Winchester

    France is getting no support from Washington fighting in Mali now. The drones aren’t flying there either and neither is much of anything else. The Obama régime’s people have said that they support the French operation but that they’re still waiting to get a “clear picture” of the mission, the enemy and how much this will offend the Morsis of the islamic world.

    • Crackity Jones

      Good.

      • cpinva

        not quite correct, as i understand it from the news. the US is supporting the french air mission, by providing air re-fueling planes. not sure who the pilots are though, american or french.

        • Uncle Kvetch

          Holy Mother of God…are you suggesting Winchester doesn’t have his/her/its facts straight. I’m going to need to sit down with a big stack o’ pancakes and sort through the implications…

        • Winchester

          that’s NOTHING.

          • Malacylpse

            Your clever use of CAPSLOCK is indeed convincing, but you need more Foucault, and some reflexive Protevi-hatred.

            • Gilles Deleuze

              Your clever use of CAPSLOCK is indeed convincing, but you need more Foucault, and some reflexive Protevi-hatred

              The Society of CONTROL essay reveals in code, if you use geometric logic, that Protevi stole Winchester’s strawberries.

        • MacGyver

          and also doing strategic airlift and ISR support.

      • Good.

        Yes, wouldn’t it be terrible if we helped the Socialists prevent the religious fundamentalists from taking over a country?

        • John F

          no

    • Uncle Kvetch

      I’m loving this…suddenly the new line from the neocon he-men is that we should be standing shoulder-to-shoulder with the French. The effete, cheese-eating surrender monkeys of old Europe. The decadent defeatists of crumbling socialist Eurabia.

      Doublethink the pleasure, doublethink the fun!

  • Leeds man
    • cpinva

      man, i am getting wayyyyyyy too good at this, i mentioned algeria, in a post elsewhere, a couple of days ago. frankly, i’m surprised it hasn’t had more prominent mention in the dailys.

  • Manju

    This is like the most intense Farley stare-down ever. One wonders, who was his Thesis Advisor? Roberto Duran?

    • witless chum

      He learned that stare from the main armament on the U.S.S. Missouri.

    • rea

      who was his Thesis Advisor? Roberto Duran?

      It was Duran for a while, but then Roberto announced, “no mas!” and another advisor had to be found.

      • Manju

        Guess he wasn’t expecting that left hook.

  • Simple mInd

    Free market reforms encouraged by Sarkosy that dismantled Mali’s educational and heath systems and moneymaking state industries left a big gaping hole that Islam filled. France is reaping what it sowed.

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