Too Soon?
…anyway, with my usual disclaimers about how as far as I can tell being a good spouse bears no relationship to being an effective public official, I assume that as head of the CIA this could be more problematic?
…Liliana Segura: “I just hope whoever replaces Petraeus restores the CIA’s reputation as a beacon of moral rectitude.”
catclub:
November 9th, 2012 at 7:07 pm
Isn’t the term for too soon – premature?
Pointy end of the spear indeed.
Just Dropping By:
November 9th, 2012 at 7:11 pm
I’ll be curious if the publisher changes the title for future printings.
Paul Campos:
November 9th, 2012 at 7:11 pm
The book’s web page describes her as an embedded author.
tonycpsu:
November 9th, 2012 at 7:13 pm
Cue the wingnuts Benghazi truthers.
Scott Lemieux:
November 9th, 2012 at 7:13 pm
Just the Tip: A CIA Director Learns To Read Intelligence Reports?
slybrarian:
November 9th, 2012 at 7:17 pm
While I normally agree that it’s not a big deal for elected officials (excepting the many cases of people who scream ‘family values’), in this case it’s different. An extramarital affair is grounds for loss of security clearance and, from what I’ve heard, a fireable offense at the CIA. While I don’t think that’s applicable to Petraeus as an appointed official, it’d be a serious blow to his ability to lead the organization.
Tnap01:
November 9th, 2012 at 7:18 pm
Ouch!
https://twitter.com/tinyrevolution/status/267048146310410241
Patrick:
November 9th, 2012 at 7:19 pm
Well compared to Vince Foster he got off pretty lightly. He should be happy Hillary didn’t win the primary.
DrDick:
November 9th, 2012 at 7:23 pm
This was apparently all Petraeus’s decision from what is being reported on the news. Hard to say why he made that decision.
Ed:
November 9th, 2012 at 7:35 pm
At least that was before the news broke. The Slate article says “she was embedded with him in Afghanistan.”
Richard:
November 9th, 2012 at 7:40 pm
Since he was having the affair with a reporter and his biographer, I think its fairly easy to see why he made the decision. He’s open to the charge that he was sharing information with her that should not have been shared
Logistics:
November 9th, 2012 at 7:48 pm
General Betray-hiswife
MoveOn had it kind of right.
Erik Loomis:
November 9th, 2012 at 7:57 pm
I’ve always wanted to have sex with my biographer, but then I realized it’d probably be an autobiography and well….
joe from Lowell:
November 9th, 2012 at 8:08 pm
Is it ridiculously naive to think that he might have wanted to go home and try to save his marriage?
Both Sides Do It:
November 9th, 2012 at 8:12 pm
Humping It: One Man’s Rise, In and Out of the Military
Craigo:
November 9th, 2012 at 8:13 pm
That was my first instinct too. Maybe the guy just feels like an asshole.
Linnaeus:
November 9th, 2012 at 8:18 pm
Um, it’s not impossible. People do it all the time.
CD:
November 9th, 2012 at 8:19 pm
+1
STH:
November 9th, 2012 at 8:19 pm
I would think that just coming clean about it would be sufficient. I mean, isn’t the big deal that having a secret makes you blackmail-able?
Uncle Kvetch:
November 9th, 2012 at 8:19 pm
Heh.
shah8:
November 9th, 2012 at 8:21 pm
I’m inclined to look past the “I fired myself”. I think this was more of a reaction against the military’s tendency to think itself above the politicians.
Remember when Obama couldn’t get the military to give him a roadmap out of Afghanistan? Or Billy McChrystal? Or that whole nasty story about that woman who got into a fight with Navy hierarchy over ship movement that might provoke Iran?
Long list of shenanigans. I’d look see if anyone else is in trouble before I’m sure it’s about the sex.
jon:
November 9th, 2012 at 8:23 pm
Full disclothesure.
Tnap01:
November 9th, 2012 at 8:28 pm
Honestly, yes.
jon:
November 9th, 2012 at 8:30 pm
If Petraeus still holds his rank, he’s bound by the military’s code a gentleman in your private life.
But maybe there’s different dirt, or a power struggle. An affair is such a tidy excuse. Two days after the election, it feels like cleaning house.
jon:
November 9th, 2012 at 8:31 pm
This could also impact the chances of ‘Mr. Surge’ running for president.
Jonas:
November 9th, 2012 at 8:39 pm
And the winner is: Halperin
“Sometimes there are threats. I’m not saying that’s what happened in this case”
tonycpsu:
November 9th, 2012 at 8:40 pm
OT: Scott, any thoughts on SCOTUS taking up Alabama’s Voting Rights Act challenge? Is the pre-clearance provision gone?
ploeg:
November 9th, 2012 at 8:50 pm
The decision probably has a little bit to do with the FBI investigation.
Pete Mack:
November 9th, 2012 at 8:54 pm
While I agree that having an affair as head of the CIA is only moderately unprofessional, having an affair with your own biographer, a 20-something Harvard grad student, is definitely unprofesional.
not not nate:
November 9th, 2012 at 8:55 pm
!!!
tonycpsu:
November 9th, 2012 at 9:01 pm
She’s 39.
tonycpsu:
November 9th, 2012 at 9:01 pm
(Your point still stands, of course.)
dan:
November 9th, 2012 at 9:16 pm
Has there ever been a case in history when a person with access to confidential information was blackmailed into revealing it over an affair, or is this just another excuse for enforcing private morality on public officials?
I mean, yes, if he had actually disclosed info he shouldn’t have, to her or anyone else, fire him. But if he hasn’t, why fire him over the remote possibility that he could have been blackmailed over the affair, if no one had ever been blackmailed over an affair before?
Jonas:
November 9th, 2012 at 9:17 pm
Yeah, with the cover now, it sounds like the General received quite an education, from Paula and Vernon. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
NonyNony:
November 9th, 2012 at 9:27 pm
Actually it appears that the affair was discovered by the FBI during an investigation into whether or not his computer had been compromised.
So… it may well be that he resigned because this story is only going to make him and/or the CIA itself look more and more idiotic as it comes out. Director of the CIA having an affair with a journalist who had access to his computer and it comes to light when the FBI finds out about it? Embarrassing on soooo many levels.
NonyNony:
November 9th, 2012 at 9:34 pm
Yeah – with the NYT link I posted above this sounds less like a public official being held accountable for private morality and more like Petraeus was sloppy with secret materials around a reporter.
Petraeus, showing that he continues to know how the US press operates, goes for the “less embarassing” route of outing himself for having an affair so that the more embarrassing “CIA director turns out to be a security leak and the CIA had to be told by the FBI” angle might get missed in the typical tabloid feeding frenzy.
wjts:
November 9th, 2012 at 10:02 pm
Petraeus resigned from the Army in 2011.
wjts:
November 9th, 2012 at 10:07 pm
Surges and Urges: A Soldier and His Little Soldier.
Bill Murray:
November 9th, 2012 at 10:14 pm
Onanism is all the rage
blorg:
November 9th, 2012 at 10:15 pm
Nice! I offer this, however:
“Surges and Urges: A Soldier and His Private.”
- blorg
“Surges and Urges: A Soldier and His Little Soldier.” – wtjs
LosGatosCA:
November 9th, 2012 at 10:15 pm
“Deutch left the CIA on December 15, 1996[1] and later that year it was revealed that several of his laptop computers contained classified materials designated as unclassified. In January 1997, the CIA began a formal security investigation of the matter. Senior management at CIA declined to fully pursue the security breach. Over two years after his departure, the matter was referred to the Department of Justice, where Attorney General Janet Reno declined prosecution. She did, however, recommend an investigation to determine whether Deutch should retain his security clearance.[7] President Clinton pardoned Deutch on his last day in office.
Bill Murray:
November 9th, 2012 at 10:16 pm
the something is 19
joe from Lowell:
November 9th, 2012 at 10:16 pm
Was this outing a case of an outsider going into the CIA and getting eaten alive by the lifers?
NonyNony:
November 9th, 2012 at 10:22 pm
It seems more like a case of somebody who should have known better doing something stupid:
If this is indeed the case then Petraeus will be lucky if all that happens to him is a loss of security clearance and never being allowed to work anywhere that requires a clearance again.
wengler:
November 9th, 2012 at 10:23 pm
Yep.
Dude’s wife is the daughter of the West Point commandant when he was there. He’s been a professional brown-noser his entire life. Such a career path does not end unless it’s made to end.
wengler:
November 9th, 2012 at 10:27 pm
At least it puts that obnoxious interview she did on the book on the Daily Show in perspective. Biographers usually only fellate their subjects metaphorically.
wengler:
November 9th, 2012 at 10:29 pm
Andrea Mitchell looked like she was about to cry today when she was talking about it with Rachel Maddow. One of the Village has been disgraced today.
NBarnes:
November 9th, 2012 at 10:44 pm
It’s sex with someone you love….
Frau P:
November 9th, 2012 at 10:49 pm
Master of Withdrawal: the David Petraeus Story
Avattoir:
November 9th, 2012 at 10:57 pm
Embed: Again With Petraeus … And Again
Run For
LifeLustI Was Deep Thro …
Jameson Quinn:
November 9th, 2012 at 11:03 pm
Rock Hard: An Embedded Reporter’s View of the Man Behind the Surge
But really, none of this can hold a candle to Jon Schwarz’s zinger. I take off my hat to him.
Avattoir:
November 9th, 2012 at 11:15 pm
If he’d only done it with the ‘something’, surely that WOULD qualify as onanism. But to give it the fairest possible test, I say refer it over to the Putz.
slybrarian:
November 9th, 2012 at 11:24 pm
1) The CIA (and many others) have been burned by this sort of thing before. Usually it’s not so much blackmail as a honeypot to get information, but I’m sure blackmail has happened at times. The KGB in particular was renown for its ability to use female agents to get information.
2) Even if no information was disclosed (and it’s looking like she may have been prying), there’s still the general principle to consider. If he breaks the rules, he’s setting a horrible example for everyone else, who will think, “Well, if its okay for the boss, why shouldn’t I?” Even if the agency decided that it didn’t care about affairs so long as they were properly disclosed, there’s still the entire process for security clearance to consider. Any normal girlfriend or wife would have gotten intense scrutiny as part of the process, and since he did not disclose his relationship with her that didn’t happen. Further, if he lied about that part of the clearance questioning, what else did he forget to mention?
ploeg:
November 9th, 2012 at 11:37 pm
And as Marshall’s source says, even if Petraeus is absolutely innocent, they suspend your security clearance until the investigation is over, which makes it hard for the CIA Director to attend to his duties.
DrDick:
November 9th, 2012 at 11:48 pm
That is basically my best guess, but I do not read minds.
tonycpsu:
November 10th, 2012 at 12:04 am
I don’t know if this (second letter) is the thing that it seems like it might be given today’s events, but it is definitely a thing that exists.
Robert Farley:
November 10th, 2012 at 12:06 am
This. It would be dreadful for morale at the CIA to keep Petraeus on after this.
DrDick:
November 10th, 2012 at 12:08 am
Also a real possibility, but who knows?
DrDick:
November 10th, 2012 at 12:11 am
Another possibility, which is why I said, “Who knows?” There are many equally credible possible explanations, but since he has not said, we have no external evidence to work from, and none of us read minds, we simply cannot know at this point.
redrob64:
November 10th, 2012 at 12:12 am
Petraeus retired from the Army in 2011. As I understand it, he didn’t resign his commission, which is a separate matter. Technically, Petraeus remains a commissioned general, subject to recall by the military (however unlikely that is). The difference between retirement and resigning a commission is what allowed Peter Schoomaker to be appointed Army Chief of Staff three years after he retired from the Army.
redrob64:
November 10th, 2012 at 12:26 am
She’s apparently also a major in the Army Reserves (or was when she was working on the book) which adds a whole new layer of unprofessionalism to the incident.
wjts:
November 10th, 2012 at 1:10 am
Thanks – I wasn’t aware of that distinction.
Both Sides Do It:
November 10th, 2012 at 1:28 am
Bang-ghazi
Scott Lemieux:
November 10th, 2012 at 1:36 am
More on Monday, I’m sure. It’s certainly not good news.
Steve:
November 10th, 2012 at 1:38 am
“Moral rectitude”?? The CIA?? Leaving aside that joke, what about the security risk that Petraeus obviously,ummm, courted?
Icarus Wright:
November 10th, 2012 at 2:41 am
Hmmm
Walt:
November 10th, 2012 at 3:12 am
These are all brilliant.
Jordan:
November 10th, 2012 at 5:43 am
Here is a hmmmmm, again via slate.
haha
Read the second one. I mean, probably not. But Still!
Lurker:
November 10th, 2012 at 6:42 am
When reading the subtitle of the book, “The Education of David Petraeus”, at least I immediately recall a classic title: “Education of Cyrus”, i.e. Kyropedaeia by Xenophon.
Considering that the biographer, General Petraeus and, likely, the editor, were all educated persons, I don’t think that the name of the book was a coincidence.
Heron:
November 10th, 2012 at 7:38 am
“I just hope whoever replaces Petraeus restores the CIA’s reputation as a beacon of moral rectitude.”
As the nephew of a former CIA analyst I can only say this;
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
rea:
November 10th, 2012 at 7:45 am
Onanism is a refusal to impregnate your late brother’s wife, isn’t it?
rea:
November 10th, 2012 at 7:46 am
It’s picking up the smartest, best-looking person in the bar.
JRoth:
November 10th, 2012 at 8:26 am
But the breakup is so awkward…
greylocks:
November 10th, 2012 at 8:27 am
Get a ghostwriter. It’s what most autobiographers do.
dan:
November 10th, 2012 at 9:34 am
So, basically, what you are all saying is yes, I’m right, there’s never been a specific instance to your knowledge of a person being blackmailed over an affair into revealing confidential information.
Again, a person who reveals confidential information to a paramour or in exchange for sex, obviously that’s grounds for dismissal, because there’s been an actual breach of security. And if that was the case here, fine.
But the claim made was that the affair, in itself, was grounds for separation from employment because he could have been blackmailed. And when the question was raised as to whether there really was a threat of blackmail or whether this was just an excuse, the rationale shifted to “oh, it would be bad for morale” or “well, if he had been offered sex for information that would have been grounds for termination”. Meh. I’m unimpressed. None of these things suggest that extramarital sex, by itself, without the disclosure of confidential information, is any concern of the government’s.
Wido Incognitus:
November 10th, 2012 at 9:39 am
That (risks of blackmail and being spied on), and the possibly hacked emails (being spied on), and maybe he really did feel bad about his affair and wanted to take some time off. On the other hand, many people will be satisfied with conspiracies about Benghazi.
Jeremy:
November 10th, 2012 at 9:50 am
It might also have to do with betraying the trust of someone you’ve sworn to be faithful to. I can see how the CIA might get worked up about that.
Not that I care one way or the other what people do, but that would be my guess as to what would cause them to continue having an issue with it even after disclosure.
Lee Rudolph:
November 10th, 2012 at 9:50 am
Here are the last two paragraphs of “the second one”; my bold emphasis added.
Of course, the author’s qualms about the letter-writer’s motivations haven’t prevented him from publishing the letter…
Bill Murray:
November 10th, 2012 at 10:06 am
which is why it’s irresponsible not to speculate
Bill Murray:
November 10th, 2012 at 10:07 am
I think spilling your seed on the ground. This was before socks and tissues
Bill Murray:
November 10th, 2012 at 10:08 am
Patrick Swayze?
Bill Murray:
November 10th, 2012 at 10:14 am
if you switch the sexes, isn’t this question applicable to Ayn Rand and Nathan Branden?
Simple mInd:
November 10th, 2012 at 10:31 am
Indeed, its ok to fcuk a partner inside the spook family, just not outside.
http://www.corriere.it/gallery/esteri/11-2012/petraeus/2/paula-broadwell-donna-che-ha-fatto-cadere-petraeus_aadba6be-2b14-11e2-9d1b-8a6df7db52f7.shtml#1
jon:
November 10th, 2012 at 10:40 am
There have been many instances where people have been blackmailed over sexual indiscretions and made to provide classified and sensitive information. It was bread and butter to the Soviet espionage services. In many cases, it only served to move someone faster or further down the trail than they wanted. Exploiting homosexuals used to be quite popular.
jon:
November 10th, 2012 at 10:46 am
Petraeus is still subject to the UCMJ. Apparently, his violation can bear up to a year’s imprisonment and loss of pension, and likely a reduction in rank. He pays a price by resigning, but avoids other losses and greater humiliation.
jon:
November 10th, 2012 at 10:49 am
I don’t know. Now that white’s have become a minority, there may be a bit more attention to the finer points of antidiscrimination legislations.
jon:
November 10th, 2012 at 10:54 am
When will the Blogger Ethics Panel be convening to address this shocking lapse of journalistic comportment?
LosGatosCA:
November 10th, 2012 at 11:48 am
Of course, the CIA has been dreadful for the morale of the US public. At least the non-torturing, non-waterboarding, non-extraordinary renditioning, non-detaining without judicial review and supporters of minimal, even only minor, accountability.
But I do hope the CIA folks take comfort from this tribute that vice paid to virtue.
gocart mozart:
November 10th, 2012 at 11:49 am
ALL IN: And out and In and Out and . . .
joe from Lowell:
November 10th, 2012 at 11:53 am
No, dan, you’re wrong.
Clayton Lonetree
Linnaeus:
November 10th, 2012 at 12:02 pm
I have to confess that one of my reactions to this affair was: “There’s no way her dissertation committee will let her defend now. Unless, maybe, she changes her topic and starts all over again.”
Eli Rabett:
November 10th, 2012 at 12:39 pm
Shorter Liliana: Gentlemen don’t read each other’s Email
cpinva:
November 10th, 2012 at 12:42 pm
really?
um, betrayal is what they do, it’s part of the job description. if morals were an issue, the cia wouldn’t exist.
cpinva:
November 10th, 2012 at 12:47 pm
how, exactly?
other than he was stupid enough to get caught? devious, sneaky and immoral is more or less the cia’s modus operandi’, so that can’t be it.
tonycpsu:
November 10th, 2012 at 12:54 pm
This is amusing as well:
dan:
November 10th, 2012 at 12:55 pm
Seems more like a “honeypot” situation than actual blackmail over an affair. Even so, it seems like the punishment could be, and was, adequately meted out by punishing the disclosure and not punishing the sex. (As usual).
tonycpsu:
November 10th, 2012 at 1:39 pm
Cloak and Shag Her
J R in WV:
November 10th, 2012 at 1:51 pm
I am officially speechless…
well, not quite. Is he from down South?
Linnaeus:
November 10th, 2012 at 1:55 pm
No, he was born in New York and lives (officially) in New Hampshire, according to Wikipedia.
catclub:
November 10th, 2012 at 2:03 pm
“never being allowed to work anywhere that requires a clearance again.”
Wow, that is a killer for beltway bandits.
Julia Grey:
November 10th, 2012 at 2:10 pm
You are correct, sir.
Hasn’t anybody here been watching Covert Affairs? Sheesh.
But seriously, yes. One large part of the work of CIA agents IS to go out into the field to cultivate assets, which means “convince foreign nationals to commit treason.”
Julia Grey:
November 10th, 2012 at 2:24 pm
No, I think you’re misreading what they’re saying. They might send in a honeypot, or they might just find out that a CIA operative has had an affair with a civilian.
THEN, the security service officer steps in to meet with our hapless person with the sexual secret and the SSO says, “we’ll tell [your boss/your wife/the newspapers/whoever] that you’ve been having this affair unless you do this One Tiny Little Thing for us.”
Now, if the honeypot has already asked for the first One Tiny Little Thing, this will just draw the target in further, because now they have the One Tiny Little Thing having been done to continue to blackmail him/her with.
Of course, there were also the bald money-seeking volunteer traitors like Hansen that the security services didn’t even have to try to trap into giving shit away.
Julia Grey:
November 10th, 2012 at 2:38 pm
Oh, they like to pretend to themselves just like any other human.
All their MAJOR immorality is for a good cause, but personal sexual gratification…that’s more iffy in their minds, because bureaucratic rectitude is a better measure of integrity in their minds than actually having ethics.
Which is why the aforesaid Covert Affairs is such a hoot.
(Okay, I admit it. It IS implausible — blind man going out on field ops! — but I can’t stop watching it. Started out as a cartoon but is now DRAH-MAH.)
blow back:
November 10th, 2012 at 3:10 pm
by establishing an intimate and often sexual relationship with them.
Petraeus should have assigned himself to run counterspionage on Broadwell before sexing her up.
In all likelihood the affair started while he was still in the Army so he also violated UCMJ.
joejoejoe:
November 10th, 2012 at 3:15 pm
Or write a biography of her…
blow back:
November 10th, 2012 at 3:20 pm
More than a few of the most damaging CIA traitors started breaking the rules by having undisclosed affairs with foreign nationals.
The “rules” seem much more concerned about disclosure/secrecy than with affairs/sex.
fd2:
November 10th, 2012 at 5:25 pm
A clear breach of the CIA’s mandate.
They’re supposed to stick to foreign affairs.
Kal:
November 10th, 2012 at 6:19 pm
Actual shorter Liliana: Blowing people up is more important than affairs.
CJColucci:
November 10th, 2012 at 6:33 pm
That this came out on the day the new James Bond movie opened is one of those things that got me out of the satire business — reality long ago outran my ability to satirize it. (By yet another coincidence, my first foray into satire involved investigations into illicit sex in the Nixon White House when henry Kissinger was squiring Jill St. John and other glamorous women around town.)
ema:
November 10th, 2012 at 10:07 pm
I think the problem was that Paula Broadwell 1) was sending threatening emails to another women, and 2) was in possession of classified docs.
So maybe it’s not so much that he was having an affair but rather that he was having it with an unsuitable person.
cpinva:
November 11th, 2012 at 2:33 am
if you’re going to schtup someone not-your-wife, and you’re married, it would probably be helpful if the person not-your-wife, that you’re schtupping, doesn’t get it into her head that she’s more than just a schtup buddy, and start calling other women, and chewing them out, because she thinks you’re schtupping them too.
you’d think a guy, with that many stars on his shoulders, would have figured that out by now. or maybe he’s an amateur not-his-wife schtupper, and complete misread this woman. in which case, he shouldn’t have been the director of the cia to begin with.
Left_Wing_Fox:
November 11th, 2012 at 1:18 pm
Richard Engel on Maddow suggested that CIA resentment was likely the reason the investigation was done by the FBI, rather than internally.
Jonas:
November 11th, 2012 at 1:47 pm
I know no one will read this, because this thread is already elderly in internet years, but I would like to compliment the deluded folks at ‘Petraeus for President’ for not jumping on conspiracy theories and noting that this was bad judgment.
http://petraeus2012.com/
Julia Grey:
November 11th, 2012 at 1:57 pm
Now that white’s WHAT has become a minority?
Julia Grey:
November 11th, 2012 at 2:10 pm
It’s a public service to “out” Long-Suffering Martyrs who are sadly playing “nobler than thou” as an attempt to insert knives in the backs of others.
The columnist is probably fairly sure who the players are, and does not sympathize with the wronged husband for some reason. What that reason is, we can only speculate, but personally I dislike the company of people who make an ostentatious habit of lifting their chins bravely and biting their trembling lower lips.
Get on with it, man! Do something or don’t do something, but don’t make a public spectacle of yourself in a bid for sympathy or Righteousness Points. You’ll only end up looking pathetic in the end.
dan:
November 11th, 2012 at 3:27 pm
Julia –
And while in the “honeypot” situation there’s a danger of that, I’m still wondering (not saying there hasn’t, just still wondering) if there’s ever been a case where a foreign entity discovered that an extramarital affair was going on between a person with access to classified information and an uninvolved third party and used that knowledge to blackmail the person involved into divulging secrets.